|
====Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology====
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
<includeonly>[[File:White check mark in dark green rounded square.svg|16px|link=|alt=Keep]] '''Closed discussion''', see [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 7#1679084311|full discussion]]. Result was: </includeonly><noinclude><span id="1679084311"></span>
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:The result of the discussion was </noinclude>'''keep'''<includeonly></div></includeonly><noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd top-->. <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 20:18, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
*<span id="Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology">{{no redirect|1 = Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology }}</span> → [[:Eucharist in the Catholic Church#History]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Historical_Roots_of_Catholic_Eucharistic_Theology|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
*<span id="Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology">{{no redirect|1 = Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology }}</span> → [[:Eucharist in the Catholic Church#History]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Historical_roots_of_Catholic_Eucharistic_theology|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Historical roots of Catholic Eucharistic theology]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
::{{ping|Scyrme}} {{tq|these exact phrases}} : I avoided including [[Historical roots of Catholic eucharistic theology]] due to it having few capital letters. Do you think it should also be included in this RfD? [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 23:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
:::Not sure. ''Superficially'' it seems more plausible because without the case issues it's a grammatically correct sentence, phrased like a title, and it makes logical sense. However, searching the exact phrase (exactly this case, both variants [H/h]istory) gets 0 hits on Google Scholar and ''all'' the Google results are Wikipedia and various mirror sites, so it shares that problem. I could understand if others would rather discuss it separately. – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 00:03, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' {{strike|(Creator)}} - This is more plausible than some other entries today. Catholic Encyclopedia entries are likely to be recreated by someone else a few years down the line. These are cheap and keeping them around means they are likely to be directed to the best place. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 06:27, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
*:A recreation of a deleted page after a discussion is a [[WP:G4]] which should be deleted. [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 13:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
*:You didn't create these ones. – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 12:16, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
*:Which publications? As I said earlier, search results are all Wikipedia and mirror sites. This is ''not'' one of JASpencer's Catholic Encyclopedia redirects; they mistakenly copy-pasted their response here. I summarised the actual history earlier in my original response arguing to 'delete'. – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 12:20, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects are cheap|Only costs a few cents]] and plausible enough. Also, unless the capitalization is nonsensical (ie. hiSTOriCal ROOTS OF cathOLIC theologY), being miscapitalized is no reason to delete. <nowiki>{</nowiki>{ping|[[User:ClydeFranklin|ClydeFranklin]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki> ([[User talk:ClydeFranklin|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/ClydeFranklin|c]]) 23:15, 14 March 2023 (UTC) <!--VCB ClydeFranklin Historical Roots of Catholic Eucharistic Theology-->
* '''Keep''', these are redirects from moves to proper capitalization titles. No problem with the capitalized redirect titles per ClydeFranklin.<span style="font-family:Segoe Script">[[User:Jay| Jay]]</span><span style="font-size:115%">[[User talk:Jay| 💬]]</span> 08:19, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd bottom --></div>
====As a Sacrifice Eucharist====
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
<includeonly>[[File:White x in red rounded square.svg|16px|link=|alt=Delete]] '''Closed discussion''', see [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 7#1678911005|full discussion]]. Result was: </includeonly><noinclude><span id="1678911005"></span>
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:The result of the discussion was </noinclude>'''delete'''<includeonly></div></includeonly><noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd top-->. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> '''[[User:Salvio giuliano|Salvio]]''' '''[[User talk:Salvio giuliano|<sup>giuliano</sup>]]'''</span> 20:10, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
*<span id="As a Sacrifice Eucharist">{{no redirect|1 = As a Sacrifice Eucharist }}</span> → [[:Eucharist]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:As a Sacrifice Eucharist|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/As a Sacrifice Eucharist|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/As a Sacrifice Eucharist|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=As_a_Sacrifice_Eucharist|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:As a Sacrifice Eucharist|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#As a Sacrifice Eucharist]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:As a Sacrifice Eucharist|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#As a Sacrifice Eucharist]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:As a Sacrifice Eucharist|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#As a Sacrifice Eucharist]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
* '''Delete''' per nom reasoning [[User:Tiny Particle|Tiny Particle]] ([[User talk:Tiny Particle|talk]]) 22:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unusual wording that serves little purpose. ~ [[User:Pbritti|Pbritti]] ([[User talk:Pbritti|talk]]) 22:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per all above. More details at the other RfD - [[WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 15#Eucharist, as a Sacrifice]]. Wikipedia does not have to follow Catholic Encyclopedia's search indices.<span style="font-family:Segoe Script">[[User:Jay| Jay]]</span><span style="font-size:115%">[[User talk:Jay| 💬]]</span> 19:12, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd bottom --></div>
====Eucharist, Introduction to the====
====Torah-submission====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 16%23Torah-submission]]
*<span id="Torah-submission">{{no redirect|1 = Torah-submission }}</span> → [[:Christian views on the Old Covenant]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Torah-submission|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Torah-submission|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Torah-submission|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-01-29&end=2023-02-27&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Torah-submission|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Torah-submission|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Torah-submission]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Torah-submission|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Torah-submission]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Torah-submission|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Torah-submission]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
Too vague, I propose '''deletion'''. [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 21:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
:'''Weak agree''' I don't recall why I made this, but it seems like a really obscure term that is confusing. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 21:46, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
::It's probably related to [[Christian Torah-submission]] which was evidently an article before being merged way back in 2007. It seems it's meant as simply a concise way of saying 'submission to the Torah', that is, observing the Old Testament's commandments; the pre-merge article explicitly states that {{tq|terms “Torah-submission” and “Torah-observance” are synonymous}}. ({{oldid2|152923902|link to pre-merge article}}) The relevant discussions are still [[Talk:Christian Torah-submission|on its talk page]]. – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 22:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Further input is needed…<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <small>[[User:CycloneYoris|<b style="color:blue; text-shadow:cyan 0.0em 0.0em 0.1em;">CycloneYoris</b>]]</small> <sup>[[User talk:CycloneYoris|<b style="color:purple">''talk!''</b>]]</sup> 21:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Delete''': Not entirely sure what this is phrase is going for, but it's phrasing to me is vaguely anti-semitic and does not seem to be in particularly common usage. With the neutrality concerns and the lack of common usage, this doesn't seem to belong on wikipedia. [[User:TartarTorte|<b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>]][[User talk:TartarTorte|<b>Torte</b>]] 02:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC) <!--VCB TartarTorte Torah-submission-->
*:My pre-relist reply covers what it is going for. The original article explains more about the term: {{tq|Some consider the use of “submission” more accurate because the term “observance” can imply that one successfully observes all commands, which few, if any, claim is possible.}} It includes a note: {{tq|The organization, First Fruits of Zion, for example, prefers this term.}} "First Fruits of Zion" is a a [[Messianic Jewish]] organisation. – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 12:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
*::{{reply|TartarTorte}} Is your view still the same? – [[User:Scyrme|Scyrme]] ([[User talk:Scyrme|talk]]) 22:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
*:::If it is attested to in [[WP:RS]], I am ok with it. I'll strike the delete and change to weak keep per Scyrme. [[User:TartarTorte|<b style="color: #ea5a5a;">Tartar</b>]][[User talk:TartarTorte|<b>Torte</b>]] 12:31, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
====Pharaoh in Islam====
====Tourism in Capri====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 19%23Tourism in Capri]]
*<span id="Tourism in Capri">{{no redirect|1 = Tourism in Capri }}</span> → [[:wikivoyage:Capri]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Tourism in Capri|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Tourism in Capri|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Tourism in Capri|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Tourism_in_Capri|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Tourism in Capri|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Tourism in Capri]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Tourism in Capri|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Tourism in Capri]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Tourism in Capri|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Tourism in Capri]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
[[WP:SSRT]]: "Please keep in mind that only topics with a less-than-encyclopedic scope that are commonly wikified words or that are repeatedly recreated should become soft redirects. We don't need a soft redirect for every possible word or phrase to be included in Wikipedia."
An encyclopedic article about tourism in Capri would be possible, with its history, economic impact, ... Linking instead to a tourist guide, only because it is a sister project, is not in line with our policies or aims. And combining a redirect with a "see also" section is just weird. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 10:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' per redlink. This is an encyclopedic topic, and even if it can't sustain its own article should at least link elsewhere rather than off-site. [[Special:Contributions/193.37.240.154|193.37.240.154]] ([[User talk:193.37.240.154|talk]]) 12:18, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' I like this much better than doing direct links between sister projects in the text, per [[WP:ASTONISH]] --[[User:In actu|<span style="color: #0b0080">In actu (Guerillero)</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 13:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
**How does this make sense? No one is arguing to have "direct links between sister projects in the text", normally these shouldn't happen either. You seem to be presenting some false dilemma, as if we need to have one or the other, while we can just as well have neither. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 13:16, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
**:I do not agree with your extremely narrow interpretation of [[WP:SISTER|SISTER]]. It could say "{{xt|The two exceptions}}" which would show that they are a closed set, but the consensus is for a wording that infers that there are other examples. Wikivoyage here would be more useful for our readers than dumping them to a wide ranging economy section and I prefer to do it softly to not [[WP:ASTONISH|astonish]] them. -- [[User:Guerillero|<span style="color: #0b0080">Guerillero</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 20:38, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' – I believe that guideline is mostly referring to soft redirects to Wiktionary. This use seems like exactly the point of {{tl|Wikivoyage redirect}}. If there is scope to create an article for [[Tourism in Capri]], editors are welcome to replace the redirect. [[User:Mclay1|MClay1]] ([[User talk:Mclay1|talk]]) 13:07, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
**From that template: "This template is only for entries that currently exist on Wikivoyage and which, due to previous re-creations, are likely to be re-created in unencyclopedic form. Do not place it on every possible title." Is there any evidence that this had previously been created? Otherwise it doesn't follow the guidance of the template (which matches the guidance at [[WP:SSRT]]). Apart from this, why should we have a page which directs readers to an unreliable travel guide with a random selection of restaurants, cafés, ...? In what way is this what enwiki is for or wants to stand for? Wiktionary at least is supposedly a neutral, factual dictionary definition, not this thing which never should have been created as a WMF project probably, but which certainly doesn't align very well with the values of enwiki. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 13:15, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
***The template is barely used, so if that is the intended scope for its use, perhaps it needs a rethink. I don't think it's up to us to make judgements on whether or not a sister project should exist. If the quality of it is truly a concern, driving more people towards it will increase participation and eventually quality. Perhaps there needs to be a broader discussion to see if there is consensus on this type of redirect at all. But while they do exist, this one seems fine. [[User:Mclay1|MClay1]] ([[User talk:Mclay1|talk]]) 13:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
****Why should we drive our editors to a project which has a completely different purpose and doesn't in any way support Wikipedia as such? It's not like Commons or Wikidata (with all its flaws), which are directly used on enwiki. What benefit does it give enwiki to drive our editors to Wikivoyage? It doesn't improve enwiki, it doesn't present our readers with an encyclopedic article about tourism in Capri. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 14:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
****"For arriving in style, Capritime Boats specialises in water taxi direct transfers from Naples, Sorrento, the Amalfi Coast and Ischia to Capri. They also provide luxury full-day and half-day boat tours to the Amalfi Coast and Sorrento Coast from Capri, tailor itineraries for cruise ship passengers docked in Sorrento, Capri, Naples and Amalfi and also offer special Capri and Ischia island boat excursions." Or do you prefer "Buonocore Gelateria Pasticceria Gastronomia e Tavola Calda, Via Vittorio Emanuele, 35, ☏ +39 081 8377826. Very close to the 'Piazzetta', this place is plenty of very good sweets but the best is their ice cream with just done/still hot cones. Assistants speak English."? Why don't we just let them put adds on enwiki instead, instead of forcing them to detour through this soft redirect first? [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 14:06, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
*****[[WP:IDONTLIKEIT|If you think we shouldn't link to a wiki article because it's poorly written]], by that logic, we also shouldn't link to bad Wikipedia articles either. If you have a problem with the way the article is written, you're welcome to improve it. In principle, as long as Wikivoyage articles are well maintained, there should be no issue with this sort of redirect. I have no objection to having a wider discussion somewhere else about whether we should be linking to Wikivoyage until its quality improves, but until there is consensus for that, we should not be treating it differently to Wiktionary or other any other sister project. [[User:Mclay1|MClay1]] ([[User talk:Mclay1|talk]]) 10:11, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
******Who said it was poorly written? Perhaps this is perfectly written for Wikivoyage, I don't know and don't care what their editorial stance is. But in my view Wikivoyage is incompatible with enwiki, and [[WP:SISTER]] makes it clear that Wikivoyage is not one of the accepted exceptions, unlike Wiktionary, so our guidelines ''already'' treat it differently. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 10:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
* I linked to ''[[Tourism in North America]]'' when creating this. I don't see what's changed since [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2021_November_24#Tourism_in_North_America|that RfD]]. SSRT, besides being worded as about Wiktionary, is a pretty loose guideline, primarily meant to say "Just because you <em>can</em> soft-redirect something to Wiktionary doesn't mean you <em>should</em>." While it comes up at RfD from time to time, there has never been consensus, to my knowledge, that it is on its own a reason to delete something. ([[WP:SOFTSP]] overall is a kind of baffling style guideline that seems about a decade [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|out of sync]] with common practice. It implies that the main circumstance for creating interwiki soft redirects is after a transwiki [a process so rare that basically all other mentions of it in policies and guidelines have been removed], and that there is no such thing as an interwiki soft redirect [[template:r with possibilities|with possibilities]], which is at odds with years of RfD precedent. The guideline should probably be overhauled.) Finally, if there is a concern with soft redirects to Wikivoyage in general, as there was once a concern with inline links to Wikinews, then the appropriate venue to address that is an RfC to restrict that practice, not an RfD against one Wikivoyage redirect. <span class="nowrap"> <span style="font-family:courier">-- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup>[''[[User talk:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</span>]]'']</sup> (she|they|xe)</span> 15:08, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
**I have deleted multiple transproject soft redirects with just a reference to SSRT, no idea what your experience to the contrary is based on. Anyway, one RfD from 2021 hardly means that no other RfDs can be had, consensus can change (and the fact that that RfD was started also shows that these aren't uncontroversial). Finally, it is not unusual to first have a number of RfDs (or AfDs or whatever) to test the waters, before starting an RfC to get a more definitive answer. Of course, you are free to start an RfC to see if this practice is even allowed, basically creating an article with only an external link to an unreliable site promoting random commercial entities. You haven't really answered why you would think this would be a good idea in the first place, considering the quality of such targets and the discrepancy between such pages and the goals of Wikipedia (and what is expressed in [[WP:NOTTRAVEL]]). [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 15:18, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
***Again, it sounds like what you want is to ban redirecting to Wikivoyage, which is beyond RfD's purview. It's one thing to "test the waters"; it's another thing to RfD something with a rationale that would equally apply to an entire class of redirects that is currently allowed. I created this particular one so that I could link to the Wikivoyage entry from an article without the potential astonishment of taking someone directly to a different site, and with the added benefit of having the navbox there to show some related topics. And yes, you may have RfD'd things that would be discouraged under [[WP:SSRT]] <em>and</em> merited deletion. Lots of people RfD things that would be discouraged under SSRT but <em>don't</em> merit deletion, and they get kept. Like ''Tourism in North America'', but like plenty of others too. I can go digging through the archives if you want evidence that RfD does not treat SSRT as a hard-and-fast reason to delete—particularly when the redirect [[WP:R#K5|is useful]]. So again, if you want to make new policy, go start an RfC. <span class="nowrap"> <span style="font-family:courier">-- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup>[''[[User talk:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</span>]]'']</sup> (she|they|xe)</span> 15:58, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
****"I created this particular one so that I could link to the Wikivoyage entry from an article without the potential astonishment of taking someone directly to a different site"? Why would you link to the Wikivoyage article from an article anyway? Oh, I see, you want to have a GA at [[Capri-Sun]] and for some reason just had to create the link in the sentence "The name references the Italian island of [[Capri]] due to [[tourism in Capri|its status as a vacation destination]]." That is a terrible use of a Wikivoyage link, no matter if it is direct or indirect. A redlink (or no link at all) would be much better there. Apart from that, ''I'' have [[WP:SSRT]] behind me, if you believe it shouldn't apply to Wikivoyage links, it is up to ''you'' to amend it through an RfC. I am asking for the deletion of this one redirect, if you insist that it is an all of nothing then you are free to raise this at an appropriate all or nothing forum, but please don't derail a legitimate request to delete one redirect (which you created). [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 16:09, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
{{od|****}}Actually, I've got a sec, and this might come in handy at some later date regardless, so, looking at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2F%E2%86%92.%5C%5B%5C%5B%3A%3F%28voy%7Cwikivoyage%29%3A%2Fi&prefix=Wikipedia%3ARedirects+for+d&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 1] past Wikivoyage RfD and the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2F%E2%86%92.%5C%5B%5C%5B%3A%3Fwikt%28ionary%29%3F%3A%2Fi&prefix=Wikipedia%3ARedirects+for+d&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 all Wiktionary RfDs of 2022 or 2023] (excluding one trainwreck):
{| class=wikitable
!
!Kept
!Ret/DAB to local
!Deleted
!No consensus
|-
!Only SSRT cited
|
|'''1''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_December_12#Stink_eye|Stink eye]] (your nom)
|'''1''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_March_2#Set_out|Set out]] (your nom)
|-
!SSRT cited among other concerns
|
|
|'''3''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2023_February_17#Multifandom|Multifandom]] (your nom); [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_April_28#Trumpanzee|Trumpanzee]] (your nom); [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_February_14#Party_foul|Party foul]] (your nom)
| '''2''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_June_15#ꑭ|ꑭ]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_June_9#≬|≬]]
|-
!SSRT not cited
| '''2''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2021_November_24#Tourism_in_North_America|Tourism in North America [voy] ]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_February_24#⊚|⊚]]
| '''2''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_November_28#Fukuro|Fukuro]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_March_6#Xenogender|Xenogender]]
|'''5''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_November_27#Teething_troubles_(figurative)|Teething troubles (figurative)]] (my nom); [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_August_14#L@@K|L@@K]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_March_27#∾|∾]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_January_30#LYL|LYL]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_January_12#JGIYN|JGIYN]]
|'''2''': [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_May_3#⋺|⋺]]; [[Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_May_3#⋵|⋵]]
|}
So, in 2022 and 2023 that's 4 Wikivoyage or Wiktionary redirects that haven't had consensus to delete where no one bothered to bring up SSRT, and 2 cases where SSRT was invoked but still didn't get to consensus to delete. Meanwhile only one redirect has been deleted because of SSRT and nothing else. So no, I would not say there is consensus that SSRT is on its own a reason to delete. Just like there's nothing in SSRT or any other policy or guideline saying that. <span class="nowrap"> <span style="font-family:courier">-- [[User:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">Tamzin</span>]]</span><sup>[''[[User talk:Tamzin|<span style="color:#E6007A">cetacean needed</span>]]'']</sup> (she|they|xe)</span> 17:41, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Retarget''' to [[Capri#Economy]], where the tourism industry in Capri is described. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 19:16, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Retarget''' to [[Capri#Economy]], where the tourism industry in Capri is described. My opinion is the same as Tavix above but was reached independently. [[User:Tiny Particle|Tiny Particle]] ([[User talk:Tiny Particle|talk]]) 13:49, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Weak keep'''. This is a tough one. I like unorthodox solutions to cases like this one, and something that gives different options for the reader here is good ([[Special:Diff/1143954161|minor change]] made to integrate the navbox in a bit). That said, our coverage of tourism in Capri isn't too shabby – we have decent coverage on it at [[Capri]] (particularly the Economy section but not solely), at of course the various tourism hotspots, and mentions throughout [[Tourism in Italy]]. '''[[User talk:J947|<span style="color:#137412;">J947</span>]]''' † <sup>[[Special:Contributions/J947|edits]]</sup> 23:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
====Wisconsin Primary====
====Bunch of academic journals====
<div class="boilerplate rfd vfd xfd-closed" style="background:#FFEEDD; margin-top:0.5em; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #888888;">
<includeonly>[[File:White x in red rounded square.svg|16px|link=|alt=Delete]] '''Closed discussion''', see [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 7#1679023819|full discussion]]. Result was: </includeonly><noinclude><span id="1679023819"></span>
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''
:The result of the discussion was </noinclude>'''delete'''<includeonly></div></includeonly><noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd top-->. Concerns about RfD being inappropriately used to hound an editor are better raised at a venue like [[WP:ANI]], though in my quick skim I didn't see anything that gave me pause.
Aside from that, the delete arguments cited the relevant guideline and the sole keep vote did the opposite, hence a delete conclusion. [[User:Legoktm|Legoktm]] ([[User talk:Legoktm|talk]]) 03:30, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
*<span id="Acta Tropica">{{no redirect|1 = Acta Tropica }}</span> → [[:Elsevier]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Acta Tropica|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Acta Tropica|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Acta Tropica|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Acta_Tropica|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Acta Tropica|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Acta Tropica]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Acta Tropica|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Acta Tropica]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Acta Tropica|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Acta Tropica]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
*<span id="Administrative Theory & Praxis">{{no redirect|1 = Administrative Theory & Praxis }}</span> → [[:Taylor & Francis]] <span> <span class="plainlinks lx">([[Talk:Administrative Theory & Praxis|talk]] <b>·</b> [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Administrative Theory & Praxis|links]] <b>·</b> [[Special:PageHistory/Administrative Theory & Praxis|history]] <b>·</b> [[:toolforge:pageviews/?start=2023-02-05&end=2023-03-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Administrative_Theory_%26_Praxis|stats]])</span></span> <small class="plainlinks"><nowiki>[</nowiki> Closure: ''{{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|(@subpage)|[{{fullurl:Administrative Theory & Praxis|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Administrative Theory & Praxis]] closed as keep}}}} keep]/[{{fullurl:Administrative Theory & Praxis|action=edit&summary={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Administrative Theory & Praxis]] closed as retarget}}}} retarget]<span class="sysop-show">/[{{fullurl:Administrative Theory & Praxis|action=delete&wpReason={{Urlencode:[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}#Administrative Theory & Praxis]] closed as delete}}&wpMovetalk=1}} delete]</span>}}'' ]</small>
*:"about the publisher may at least mention the publication" These articles won't ever mention those journals. These publishers are too big for that. This isn't case of the Bulletin of the Mathematical Society of Swaziland redirecting to the Mathematical Society of Swaziland. Re " I don't buy the REDLINK stuff, because articles are typically created by people being knowledgable about a topic and having enough time at hands to research and write the articles." On journal topics, article-creation is highly driven by lists of redlinks like [[WP:JCW/MIS]] and redlinks being present in articles (citations usually).  <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 23:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete all''' per nom. If there was a [[List of journals published by Foo]] that mentioned them that would be a different story, but afacs there isn't. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 12:24, 14 March 2023 (UTC)q
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).''</noinclude><!-- Template:Rfd bottom --></div>
====John Wiley & Sons Inc. 'A'====
| 