Talk:Battle of Appomattox Court House: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added
→‎Map: new section
 
(24 intermediate revisions by 19 users not shown)
Line 1:
{{talkheader}}
{{WPMILHIST|class=Start|B1=no|B2=yes|B3=yes|B4=yes|B5=yes|US=yes|ACW=yes}}
{{WikiProject Virginiabanner shell|class=C|importance1=mid}}
{{WPMILHISTWikiProject Military history|class=StartC|B1=non|B2=yesy|B3=yesy|B4=yesy|B5=yesy|US=yesy|ACW=yesy}}
{{OnThisDay|date1=2006-04-09|oldid1=47663145|date2=2007-04-09|oldid2=121346472|date3=2008-04-09|oldid3=204538388|date4=2010-04-09|oldid4=354917225|date5=2011-04-09|oldid5=423099712}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Mid|ACW=y|USMIL=Yes}}
{{dyktalk|10 February|2005|entry=...that the '''[[Battle of Appomattox Courthouse|Battle of Appomattox Court House]]''' signalled the end of the [[American Civil War]]?}}
{{WikiProject Virginia|importance=High}}
}}
{{OnThisDayOn this day|date1=2006-04-09|oldid1=47663145|date2=2007-04-09|oldid2=121346472|date3=2008-04-09|oldid3=204538388|date4=2010-04-09|oldid4=354917225|date5=2011-04-09|oldid5=423099712|date6=2016-04-09|oldid6=714380211}}
{{dyktalkDYK talk|10 February|2005|entry=...that the '''[[Battle of Appomattox Courthouse|Battle of Appomattox Court House]]''' signalled the end of the [[American Civil War]]?}}
 
==Grammar==
Line 42 ⟶ 46:
: You need to balance human interest material with the content and formatting requirements of an encyclopedia. If the material about the other generals is primarily personal in nature, such as their thoughts and reactions, I think it would be better placed into their biography articles than here. [[User:Hlj|Hal Jespersen]] 20:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 
*The transition between the battle and the surrender isn't well developed. Here are a list of sources that discuss it:
:*{{cite web |title=The Campaign to Appomattox |url=https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/civil_war_series/6/sec5.htm |website=NPS |accessdate=2019-04-01}}
:*{{cite web |title= The Gentleman's Agreement That Ended the Civil War |url=hhttps://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/artifacts/the-gentlemans-agreement-that-ended-the-civil-war/ |website=SMITHSONIAN’S NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMERICAN HISTORY |accessdate=2019-04-01 | last = Rubenstein | first = Harry}}
[[Special:Contributions/65.196.107.215|65.196.107.215]] ([[User talk:65.196.107.215|talk]]) 21:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
 
== The Last Battle ==
Line 54 ⟶ 62:
 
Before this paragraph is restored to the article, we will need to have some citations from secondary sources to back up this claim. We also can do without the POV opinions on the characters of Chamberlain and the other Civil War generals mentioned. [[User:Hlj|Hal Jespersen]] 21:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 
I support the argument that the 'salute' giving by the V corps never happened. Chamberlain's ''Passing of the Armies'' does tend to create some myths, as do many of the memoirs generated in the 1880s by numerous generals on both sides. Recent books support this. Just off the top of my head I can't remember sources, but I believe a good place to start looking is in the book ''Lee's Last Retreat.''
[[User:Trfasulo|Thomas R. Fasulo]] ([[User talk:Trfasulo|talk]]) 00:47, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 
:Anyone who has read J.B. Gordon's memoirs will know that he was a fantasist. They read like a bedtime story of romantc chivalry. [[User:Valetude|Valetude]] ([[User talk:Valetude|talk]]) 10:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 
== ever-expanding article ==
Line 95 ⟶ 108:
 
::The end was certainly in sight on April 9, 1865, and most people probably felt both then and now that little more fighting should or would take place and it was only a matter of a short time before the war was wrapped up and the states were fully restored to the union. I do not think of the 1866 dates as the end, although an argument could be made for them as the true dates for the end of the war, so I include them in the interest of giving a full list of end dates (except for the minor fights and skirmishes). I think some date in June (May at the earliest), 1865 is technically more accurate for the end of the war and the Appomattox surrender date could only be used as an end date with some small qualification. Consider that even if Lee kept his forces from turning into guerillas, as he did, he might not have been able to stop the other forces in the field from carrying on in some fashion that would have kept many fighters and a considerable number of small groups fighting unconventionally for months or years. Previous actions by Mosby and Morgan and even (perhaps even more so) by bandits like Anderson and Quantrill certainly show that it would not have been a novel concept to carry on in that fashion - and some CSA leaders at least had considered this as an option. I think it better to have cleared these sizable groups off the fields before considering the war to have been at an end. Even if only a minimal amount of skirmishing and a minor battle or two was fought after Appomattox it could not be the end with the number of men in the field still under arms and the number of small actions that still took place - in my opinion. The Eichers put forth a date in 1869 but I can't buy that one at all no matter what their publications and reputations are and the overall value and diligence of their work. I did not go back to look it up but I think their rationale is based on the last of the U.S. Volunteers being mustered out of the army or the last of the brevets being handed out or some such rationale. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60|talk]]) 08:46, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Nobody ever seems to mention the most obvious date for marking the war's end. That is May 5th, when the Confederacy dissolved itself. Any fighting after that date must logically be classified as postwar hostilities. [[User:Valetude|Valetude]] ([[User talk:Valetude|talk]]) 14:44, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 
==HELP==
Line 104 ⟶ 119:
 
A map of the battle would be a helpful addition. [[User:Dan653|Dan653]] ([[User talk:Dan653|talk]]) 12:31, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 
== Confederate Casualties, Salmon citation ==
 
An IP editor has been changing the Confederate casualty figures (killed and wounded) in the infobox from about 500 to 195 while leaving the source for the original figures, Salmon, ''Virginia Civil War Battlefield Guide'' p. 492 as the citation. Here is the URL/link for the source which clearly states "about 500." http://books.google.com/books?id=f_B3ToTmp1oC&pg=PA492&lpg=PA492&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false If this is in error and there is a better, reliable source that justifies a change, it should be cited. If the change is meant to refer only to the number killed, it would still need a different citation because that number (195) is not given in Salmon on page 492. Note, too, that Salmon refers to "casualties" with respect to the figures for both armies, so presumably that is the figure he believes is correct for killed and wounded for both sides, not killed for one and killed and wounded for the other. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60|talk]]) 12:08, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 
== Oct. 2013 Vandalism (?) ==
 
The word "fias" appeared in the first paragraph, and I can find no meaning for it. It does not look like a misspelling to me. In addition there was a sentence fragment in the first paragraph of the "Background" section, which read "Confederate GeneralRobert E. Lee waited for an opportunity to leave the Petry turned Lee's flank at the Battle of Five Forks." I removed this. I hope some historian who knows this battle can correct these changes. [[User:Nwbeeson|Nick Beeson]] ([[User talk:Nwbeeson|talk]]) 13:56, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
 
== 'Courthouse' is a single word ==
 
I'm not going to fix this because (insert whatever you'd like to believe here), but 'courthouse' is a single word. Writing it as 'court house' is an elementary-school mistake. I'll add that the article text is inconsistent, sometimes getting it correctly as one word, mostly splitting it in two. [[Special:Contributions/99.66.150.5|99.66.150.5]] ([[User talk:99.66.150.5|talk]]) 15:31, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 
:I know this comment is a couple years old, but just for clarification for future editors, Appomattox Court House in this context is the full proper name of a village, not a reference to a judicial building. The village included the judicial building/county seat, but the surrender took place in a private home, as the article explains. It appears the only existing reference to a judicial building, as of this writing, is in a photo caption, where it is spelled as one word. -[[User:EightYearBreak|EightYearBreak]] ([[User talk:EightYearBreak|talk]]) 16:32, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 
== Union 'Strength' is Absurdly Bloated ==
 
The overwhelming majority of sources written in the past century has confirmed that there were only about 60,000 Union Soldiers present at Appomattox Court House at the time of the battle and surrender. 150,000 men is an absurd inflation, which is to be expected from a German book written more than a century ago that someone for some reason felt was a reliable source (Bodart, Gaston (1908). Militär-historisches Kriegs-Lexikon, (1618–1905). Stern.) [[User:Sukurabu|Sukurabu]] ([[User talk:Sukurabu|talk]]) 13:02, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
:Updated with strength values from the American Battlefield Trust. [[User:Mojoworker|Mojoworker]] ([[User talk:Mojoworker|talk]]) 07:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
 
== Infobox: Confederate strength: 26,000, Confederate surrendered: 26-28,000 ==
 
Shum mishtake shurely! [[User:Boscaswell|<span style="color: green">Boscaswell</span>]] [[User talk:Boscaswell|<span style="color: maroon">talk</span>]] 22:37, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
== "[[:Appomatox coart house surrender]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Appomatox_coart_house_surrender&redirect=no Appomatox coart house surrender]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 23#Appomatox coart house surrender}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Mdewman6|Mdewman6]] ([[User talk:Mdewman6|talk]]) 07:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
== "[[:Battle of appommatox courthouse]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_appommatox_courthouse&redirect=no Battle of appommatox courthouse]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 23#Battle of appommatox courthouse}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Mdewman6|Mdewman6]] ([[User talk:Mdewman6|talk]]) 20:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)