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==Problems==
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[[User:Amandajm|Amandajm]] ([[User talk:Amandajm|talk]]) 06:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
: I am confused. All of those articles that you removed were articles that talked about Leonardo's possible input into those works. And the robot link actually linked to Leonardo's robot not robots in general. [[User:Remember|Remember]] ([[User talk:Remember|talk]]) 14:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:*It's not the links that are the problem. It's the template itself. I notice that another editor has changed '''Inventions''' to ''''Other works''', obviously for the same reason as I deleted the single word "Robot" under the heading of "Inventions". Regardless of how accurate the info in the wiki-page might be, the info in the template itself was patent nonsense.
::''That'' is the problem. The template is not simply a set of links. It is also a stand-alone source of information which purports to give a list of Leonardo's works. That list of itself must not be misleading. If any student wants a list of Leonardo's works, they will take then straight off your template....Where it clearly showed Leonardo as the inventor of "the robot"!!
::The [[Leda and the swan]] links to a general page and has a pic by a student of Michelangelo, based on a drawing by Michelangelo. That is, of itself, confusing.
::Can I suggest that you add the categories "Lost works" and "Juvenile works". The smaller predella Annunciation in the Uffizi belongs in the "Juvenile works", along with the Tobias and the [[Dreyfus Madonna]]. Where the work is not fully bbe Leonardo, there needs to bbe a statement as to the other artist. Where the other artist is the major contributor, this should be made clear.
::There is, as I have pointed out, a very big difference between Leonardo painting a dog (or fish) in another artist's picture, and Leonardo composing and painting 95% of a masterpiece, with the assistance of ''his own workshop'' as in "Virgin of the Rocks". All this stuff is made clear in the list in main article. It has been carefully researched and fully cited. The information is there for you to use. What is written in the template must be accurate, of itself.
::One of the problems here is that the "big picture" is highly complex. If we were dealing with Michelangelo, the list would be short and simple. If we were dealing with Raphael, the list would be much longer but also fairly simple. In the case of Leonardo, the indentity and attribution of his works is an extremely complex matter, and your template fails to reflect that.
[[User:Amandajm|Amandajm]] ([[User talk:Amandajm|talk]]) 02:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
==List==
*'''Juvenile works and collaboration''': "Dreyfus Madonna", attrib., "Annunciation" predella, attrib., "Tobias....", assisting Verrocchio, attrib., "Baptism of Christ", in collaboration with Verrocchio.
*'''Mature works''' (I would leave out "the entirely by Leonardo" bit, unless you want to go into lengthy discussion) Include here ''both'' the Virgin of the Rocks pictures, also include the cartoon of the Virgin and Child and St Anne, marking it clearly as a drawing. Label two works that are unfinished. Don't include anything that is "lost".
*'''Attribution generally accepted''': Ginevra, Woman with the ermine, Madonna with the vase of flowers (Munich), Belle Ferroniere etc
*'''Also attributed''': all the shakier ones
*'''Lost works''': Battle scene, Medusa, Leda, equestrian monument.
List the "Dreyfus Madonna", even though it's a red link. I'll write a little monograph on it. [[User:Amandajm|Amandajm]] ([[User talk:Amandajm|talk]]) 03:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:What about a list of '''disputed works''' like the painting thought to be behind the wall in the church? --[[Special:Contributions/98.232.178.38|98.232.178.38]] ([[User talk:98.232.178.38|talk]]) 03:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
==Revamped==
Just a few notes to explain my recent edit, which mostly follows Amandajm's suggestions above:
* Per Amanda's suggestion, I've introduced an "Early works-Mature works-Recent attributions" structure to the Paintings section, replacing that awful mess that was there was before. My main aim was to give a sense of chronolgy which the [[Leonardo da Vinci#List of paintings|list of paintings by attribution status]] necessarily can't do. The final category is outside the chronology to emphasise that these last works are still shaky attributions.
* In the list of paintings by attribution, based on Ottino's research, I count 6 or 7 different "grades" of authenticity. Obviously this navbox can't reflect the complexity of the big picture. Sooo, I've marked every painting between "grade" 3 ("Accepted attrbution") and 5/6 ("Disputed") as simply "Attributed [to Leonardo]". While it lacks nuance, it ''is'' the kind of phrasing you get in captions in art books or on museum labels, and therefore I should think it's acceptable.
* Lost works have been kept in the main list, but are clearly marked as being such. Again, I plead 'chronology': I think a separate category for ''The Battle of Anghiari'' et al would fail to show how they fit into his oeuvre. I wanted to avoid the meaningless atomisation of the last version.
* "Robot" has become "Leonardo's robot".
[[User:Ham|Ham]] 16:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well done, Ham! Big improvement! [[User:Amandajm|Amandajm]] ([[User talk:Amandajm|talk]]) 14:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
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