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some WP projects are indeed relevent. may be you haven't read the whole article properly. Anyway I have cut it. And added only relevent ones. |
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{{Indian English}}
{{WikiProject India|class=Start|importance=low |maharashtra=yes |maharashtra-importance=low |assess-date=May 2012}}▼
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|
▲{{WikiProject India
{{WikiProject Sociology|importance=Mid|Social movements=yes}}
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Crime|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Indian caste system|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Law Enforcement|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Discrimination|importance=High}}
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== Original call for change of name ==
Line 7 ⟶ 16:
::[[Dalit Panther]]s demanded (not protested) for name to the government before 1978. Maharashtra Legislature approved it in July 1978. On this approval, the upper caste Hindus reacted by anti-Dalit violence. As a result government postponed renaming for uncertain period. And then Dalits started Andolan by [[Satygraha]], [[Jail Bharo Andolan ]] and Long March.
::Many thanks. [[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshannpy]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 12:54, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Dear [[User:Sitush|Sitush]], source please?? Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 23:31, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
== Title and certain sources ==
Line 63 ⟶ 73:
*''Dalits were banned from buying grocery items in their villages by non-Dalits and Upper caste Hindus''
*''Shiv Sena, the Hindutva political party, initially declared itself opposed to the Namantar.''
In this backdrop, no one but a POV editor can remove this category. Eye-washing logics like ''Hindus persecuting hindus?'' and ''The article is not saying that is the purpose of the category'' are not expected from experienced editor like Sitush. Such logics absolutely have no meaning. Please be bold to express the truth because, after all, you can’t hide it. Edit-war can't remove a truth because there are other means to seek remedy.--[[User:AsceticRose|<
:The only reason you can draw that conclusion is because Bhooshannpy has succeeded in producing a very biased article. If you read even the sources that are cited, rather than the many alternates, you will realise that this was a social persecution rather than a religious one. For example, yes, Buddhists were targeted in some areas but they were targeted not for being Buddhist but for being dalit upstarts, challenging their traditional place in society. It was '''not''' a religious movement. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 11:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
::Your answer is fundamentally flawed, and funny as well. Yes, it is a social persecution. So what? Are social persecutions not ''persecutions''? What a funny logic! Yes, they are persecuted for being ''Dalit'', and the article is also saying so. So, where is the contradiction? The article mentions ''Dalit'' approximately 83 times while it mentions ''Buddhist'' for 8 times.
::As you yourself admit it is a persecution by Hindus, the category is further justified, and you can't remove it.--[[User:AsceticRose|<span style="color:dimgray;"><b>Ascetic</b></span>]][[User talk: AsceticRose|<span style="color:orangered;"><b>Rosé</b></span>]] 15:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
:::It mentions things as it does precisely because one particular contributor is pushing a certain point of view. For example, Omvedt is selectively used but she is consistent in arguing that the issue is one of class, not religion. Don't believe what you read in this article because it is in large part not a true reflection of the sources. We have a major issue with ownership and pov pushing here. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:41, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
::::I have already proved the category with accurate citations. I advise other editor to refer one more citation: Murugkar, Lata (1991) Dalit Panther Movement in Maharashtra. A Sociological Appraisal. Bombay: Popular Prakashan.Pgae 171
::::Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 07:40, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
== Marathi sources ==
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:I will translate the Marathi quotes that we have taken in the article. Shortly I will do that.----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 19:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
::Still waiting and, meanwhile, you are continuing to push an angle on this article with yet more unnecessary stuff. You might want to take a look at [[WP:OWN]]. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 21:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
== Citations ==
The Namantar Andolan was a 16-year-long Dalit campaign to rename Marathwada University in recognition of B. R. Ambedkar [http://books.google.co.in/books?id=tDRiJ3HZVPQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+caste+question+%5Belectronic+resource%5D:+Dalits+and+the+politics+of+modern+India%22&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Marathwada&f=false 1],[http://rajyasabha.nic.in/rsnew/pre_member/1952_2003/a.pdf the jurist], [http://rajyasabha.nic.in/rsnew/pre_member/1952_2003/a.pdf politician] and [http://www.hurights.or.jp/archives/focus/section2/2009/06/b-r-ambedkar-an-indefatigable-defender-of-human-rights.html social reformer] who had proposed that untouchability should be made illegal.[http://www.hurights.or.jp/archives/focus/section2/2007/06/untouchability-and-violence-against-dalits.html 2][http://www.dalitstudies.org.in/wp/0904.pdf 3]
:See, you are doing it again. As in the article, you are suggesting that the reader should examine a large range of pages to find verification of your point. I'm not prepared to do it: what page numbers are you wanting me to look at in those documents? - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 11:45, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
*India adopted [[Constitution of India|Constitution of India]] in 1949.[http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/introd.htm Citation]
*Many Dalits converted to Buddhism, following the example of Ambedkar to separate themselves from the strictures of the Hindu caste system.[http://books.google.co.in/books?id=e-b2EzNRxQIC&pg=PA127&dq=%22The+Great+Mass+Conversion%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qYkOUuL4EZCnrAeb4oGwAQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20Great%20Mass%20Conversion%22&f=false Citation] Sangharakshita (2006). Ambedkar and Buddhism (1st South Asian ed. ed.). New Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass Publishers. pp. 127–140. {{ISBN|8120830237}}.
:I do not deny either of these points but they do not require (a) citation of a [[WP:PRIMARY|primary source]] or [[WP:SYNTHESIS|synthesis]] to reach an original conclusion. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:36, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
*Many intellectuals were shocked by violent incidents in the Marathwada region, the region of saints which has given many social reformation movements to the state in medieval India.
#Omvedt, Gail (1993). Reinventing revolution: new social movements and the socialist tradition in India. M.E. Sharpe Publishers. pp. 64–66. {{ISBN|9780765631763}}.
#Damle, Y. B. (January-June 1994). "Holocaust in Marathwad: 1978". ICSSR Research Abstracts Quarterly (Indian Council of Social Science and Research). XXIII.
== Soapboxing ==
I've just removed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Namantar_Andolan&diff=next&oldid=569387809 this]. It cherrypicks from a source, seems to be in the wrong place and is certainly a non sequitor. Does it have any place in the article? Perhaps, but only if we balance it with other opinions. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 12:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
:Dear [[User:Sitush|Sitush]],
:The correct place would be before the last paragraph of Background. This has many point such as untouchability, Politicss etc.. I believe without other opinion also [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Namantar_Andolan&diff=next&oldid=569387809 this] is important in the article.
:Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 22:17, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
::Well, I disagree and I am becoming fed up of your controlling attitude to this article. It seems obvious to me that you have a massive vested interest, probably as a Buddhist dalit yourself. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:37, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
== Contradiction ==
We say that {{xt|The bridges and culverts were intentionally broken or damaged to paralyse the Military and Police aid in villages during the time of attacks}}, which is fair enough if that is what the source says and it is reliable. But we also have several statements that say the police refused to help/sided with the non-Dalits and so on. If different sources say different things then that, too, is fine but the way that things are currently organised makes it look contradictory. I'm still reading through sources that have been introduced recently but I retain the opinion that this article - despite improvements to the early sections by myself and others - still resembles a list that has been put together with the intention of making things look bad. Of course, things ''were'' bad but we have to try to produce readable prose that summarises sources in a way that makes sense. The police issue right now doesn't and I really, really do not think it is helped by using the E&PW sources. As for the military bit, well, do we even mention them anywhere else? What was the military response? Who was in charge of making police/military decisions? Were there any repercussions and ''official'' reports as, for example, in Uttar Pradesh after the 2002 riots? - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 13:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
:Dear [[User:Sitush|Sitush]],
:Generally, Army help is asked by the Central Govt when violence crosses limits. I believe, Marathwada witnessed similar violence. Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots#Second_day_.281_November.29 this] example.
:Many thanks.----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 22:05, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
::I am not interested in examples elsewhere because they are original research. Your response does not resolve the contradiction, which seems to result from poor phrasing and dreadful use of sources. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:39, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
:::There is no contradiction about the Police. Because the source (Y B Damle) does not claim that Police went to villages and helped victims. Additionally, read Vakil, Mayaram(2005) etc... these sources have examples of Police behavior during the attacks. Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 23:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
== Duration ==
There are few sources that even refer to this campaign as the Namantar Andolan - an issue that was raised here a few weeks ago. Please could someone point to which of the five sources mentioned for its alleged 16-year duration actually refers to the ''Andolan'' as being of that length. - [[User:Sitush|Sitush]] ([[User talk:Sitush|talk]]) 00:46, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
== Name ==
*Sources from Indian Languages have mentioned [[Namantar Andolan]]. It is commonly refereed as ''Andolan'' in Indian vernacular newspaper. [Please search (Ctrl F) नामांतर आंदोलन] For example. [http://www.bhaskar.com/article/MH-third-largest-long-march-2500072.html Dainik Bhaskar], [http://www.loksatta.com/vruthanta-news/marathwada-nameing-question-is-for-as-loksahi-prof-kavade-54521/ Loksatta], [http://maharashtratimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5878834.cms? Mahashtra Times], [http://72.78.249.125/esakal/20130114/4925717057256161276.htm Sakal], [http://onlinenews1.lokmat.com/staticpages/editions/2013-05-24/main/DetailedNews-All.php?nid=NagpurEdition-2-2-24-05-2013-55e59&ndate=2013-05-24&editionname=nagpur Lokmat] etc.......
*(Indian) English newspapers have referred it as Namantar 'Movement' [http://www.indianexpress.com/news/seat-gone-athawale-now-plans-to-revive-former-militant-outfit/375320/ Indian Express], [http://www.nagpurtoday.in/nmc-other-prominent-leaders-salute-bhim-sainiks-who-laid-down-their-lives-for-namantar-movement/ Nagpur Today]. ( they have mentioned a synonym of Andolan)
*Namantar 'Movement' is refereed by [http://samaj.revues.org/1892 Samaj], [http://books.google.co.in/books?id=tDRiJ3HZVPQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+caste+question+%5Belectronic+resource%5D:+Dalits+and+the+politics+of+modern+India%22&hl=en#v=onepage&q=NAMANTAR&f=false Anupama Rao] etc...
If anyone want to add/comment. Please provide accurate citations (rather than vague comment/s).
Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 22:11, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
== Media Focus ==
Please read [http://onlinenews1.lokmat.com/staticpages/editions/2013-08-05/main/DetailedNews-All.php?nid=NagpurEdition-2-2-04-08-2013-59030&ndate=2013-08-04&editionname=nagpur this Marathi citation] to know, how Namantar Andolan came into the media focus. Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 22:32, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
== English translation ==
Dear everyone, Please refer "References" section (if anyone interested) to learn about the English translations (from vernacular sources). Many thanks.-----[[User:Bhooshannpy|Bhooshan NPY]] ([[User talk:Bhooshannpy|talk]]) 12:39, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
== External links modified (February 2018) ==
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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