Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom: Difference between revisions

::::::::::On the other hand, Grabowski and Klein do point out several examples of problematic content, e.g. the "Jewish welcoming banner" for the Soviet invaders of Poland, which they argue supported the [[Żydokomuna]] trope. VM has been trying to explain that away as a honest mistake by Poeticbent. But whether or not Poeticbent was aware that the caption was a hoax, his edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bia%C5%82ystok_Ghetto&diff=794106878&oldid=793942440 here] clearly supported that trope. So it's hard to deny that Wikipedia helped spread this trope for years before this was corrected. (BTW, K.e.coffman documents more context about that image this [[User:K.e.coffman|on her user page]], search for {{tq|More of the "Jew-Bolshevik" construct}}.)

::::::::::As for Der Spiegel, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency or other media reporting on this, I don't see how you can blame Groveryheist's review for their possible misunderstandings (if that is indeed the case). May I also remind you that we (more precisely, [[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam]]) are highlighting these exact media reports in this issue's "In the media", without a lengthy debate and accusations that this is unfair to the editors at the center of the controversy (e.g. the JTA also names VM directly). [[User:HaeB|HaeB]] ([[User talk:HaeB|talk]]) 00:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

::*I did not dig deeply into this, but speaking in general, providing data about wealth of different parts of population should be OK, ''if this is relevant to the subject of the page and properly framed''. If someone reading such page concludes that the "money-hungry Jews control Poland" this is ''their'' problem. This is something typical antisemites conclude. If we would assert on our pages that "money-hungry Jews control Poland", then yes, it would be ''our'' problem. But I do not see it. [[User:My very best wishes|My very best wishes]] ([[User talk:My very best wishes|talk]]) 19:43, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

::*:This is an interesting response. I agree that would be OK if relevant and properly framed. Yet I think (and I think this is part of G&K's broader point) that proper framing should account for how such phrases may function as [[Dog_whistle_(politics) | dog whistles]] or otherwise seem to support such antisemitic conclusions. To me, in the case of the specific quote in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland&direction=next&oldid=1093473843#Interbellum_(1918%E2%80%9339) History of the Jews in Poland], the context has several elements of the heroic Polish narrative (currently less so). Antisemitic violence was covered in the prior section, but here the frame was strangely minimizing, inexplicably and awkwardly mentions that many perceptually Bolshevik Jews were young, and puts greater emphasis on exaggerations by some contemporaneous accounts of this violence than on the facts that Pogroms occurred during the years 1917 and 1919 and their political significance. Juxtaposed to the statement about occupations are paragraphs demonstrating a large economically, culturally, and politically flourishing Jewish population, one largely not "assimilated" in Polish culture. The following section covers the substantial antisemitic violence between 1921 and 1939 relatively well. But, with this framing, an ignorant or mildly antisemitic reader might imagine the link between flourishing Jews and subsequent Pogroms somehow justifies the violence. [[User:Groceryheist|Groceryheist]] ([[User talk:Groceryheist|talk]]) 20:41, 6 March 2023 (UTC)