Talk:Carlisle

Picture

why does the main picture show Carlisle in relation to Scotland not the country it's actually in - England! We wouldn't show Paris in relation to Italy would we? Anon. 20:48 3/6/08

I have changed it to the old picture of Carlisle within Cumbria Penrithguy (talk) 19:53, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Bias

This article has some bias.

Only some? Let's try harder, people! -- John Fader (talk · contribs) 02:26, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tabled

In rewriting the thing about the cursed stone, I deliberately avoided the word "tabled". While I agree that british articles should be written in british english, "tabled" means essentially the opposite of what you'd imagine in american english, and thus ran the risk of really confusing some poor yank reading the article. In britspeak, "tabled" means "proposed", but in yanktalk it means "postponed until another meeting". -- John Fader (talk · contribs) 02:26, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Curse

This really interests me and I'd like to hear more about it, especially since I actually am a Carlisle. RcSamurai

Flood picture

If you look in the history of this page you'll see I tried to put in a picture of the flood I took, but it didn't align quite right. I'd appreciate it if someone better than me could have a go. Or maybe you don't think there should be one? I do, as it is quite a big part of the city's recent history. Thanks. Microwave85 23:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Capital of England?

Ive been lead to believe that Edward I held TWO parliaments there. One in 1300 and the other in 1307. Would that make Carlisle the English Capital city intead of London on those two dates?

To put it simply: no. It doesn't work like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.240.209 (talk) 09:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Latin Name

Google returns some web pages giving Luguvalium as the Roman name for Carlisle. Anyone have a source? --Gil Gamesh 22:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Article needs expansion

This article needs significant expansion. The city is of great historical importance yet some small villages in Cumbria have longer and more detailed articles. I have split transport out into a new section.

Wikiproject Catholicism

Why is Carlisle included in the WikiProject Catholicism? The only reason I can think of is that it was once like many other English ciites the seat of a catholic diocese can anyone else give me a reason for its inclusion? Penrithguy 18:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

102 Miles

'The famous Scottish Indie Rock Outfit "102 Miles" take their name from the distance from Glasgow Central railway station to Carlisle.'

If they're so famous, why don't they have a Wikipedia page? Not that it's impossible that they're famous, but if they are somebody should get to it. But I've certainly never heard of them, so I'm doubtful — TheJames 11:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

They have some pages, for instance channel4 music... check out - http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=102+miles&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enGB228GB228 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.47.21 (talk) 17:53, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Castle and cathedral

The castle keep is well preserved but the rest of the fortress has been restored and rebuilt many times.

The west end of the cathedral was destroyed by the Scots 1645-52, not Cromwell.

The cathedral east window is a magnificent composition of flowing tracery 51 feet high. Whether it is larger than that at York Minster I'm not sure. The York east window is the largest expanse of mediaeval stained glass in the world.

As Paul Nixon appears in the residents section, there seems little point in having a special cricket section just for him.

Sir Walter Scott was married in the cathedral december 1797.

Bandalore 17:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Request for pronunciation information

Can a bona fide local provide a pronunciation for the town name? I live in a US Carlisle with the stress on the second syllable and I'm wondering if the real Carlisle is pronounced the same way.

In my experience, its pronounced car-LILE in Scotland and CAR-lile in England. Famousdog (talk) 13:28, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

It's pretty much always pronounced CAR-lile in the Scottish Borders, though. 80.41.193.138 (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Note the poem The Armada by Thomas Babington Macaulay which ends

Till Skiddaw saw the fire that burned on Gaunt’s embattled pile,

And the red glare on Skiddaw roused the burghers of Carlisle.

where the scansion clearly implies the stress on the second syllable. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 19:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Just to muddy things further, (but probably logical enough given what FamousDog says), I'm from Carlisle and I pretty much say it with equal stress on both syllables, maybe slightly, slightly more on the first, but I'm having to say it over and over to myself to get that. Sort of like sitting at the opticians when they slot a new lens in and ask if it's better or worse. Definitely further up in scotland, say glasgow and north, the second syllable is stressed...kur-LYLE

Kevin Carlyon

Kevin Carlyon is not, as the article claims, the "high priest" of British white witches. He is a rather eccentric attention-seeker who has for years been trying to make himself a thorn in the side of the British Wiccan community. He models his "High Priest of the Witches" claim on the title "King of the Witches" that many gave to the late Alex Sanders, who Carlyon interviewed a couple of days before his death (the interviews are distressing to listen to, as Kevin eagerly asks for more stories, ignoring the requests of the ill Sanders for a glass of water!). He is seen by the Wiccan community as ridiculous, exploitative and unethical.

Check out his site http://www.kevincarlyon.co.uk/. He's clearly trying to rub the Wiccan and Pagan community up the wrong way, adopting the title "The Living God of All Witches" "just to add to the controversy between other witches".

Cheers all, just a heads up. Fuzzypeg★ 00:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, so you insist on keeping him and his opinion. Well, I'm just registering with you that this claim of his is found highly insulting and defamatory by other British witches. Fuzzypeg★ 22:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

A press release by Scottish witches on the subject can be found here. Fuzzypeg★ 01:19, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

(sigh) That's is all well and good, but this is an article about Carlisle, not a soapbox for your witchy problems with Kevin Carlyon. The story is of interest to those interested in Carlisle and most people won't be interested in the internal politics of white-witchery in the UK. My suggestion is, make a page for Kevin and put your criticisms there, and anybody interested can follow the link. Famousdog (talk) 13:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

(sigh) The article started out by repeating false claims, which are insulting to certain people. You may not be one of those insulted, but that's no reason to be dismissive. I've made a minor alteration to the wording which I think finally makes it satisfactory. I still don't understand why Mr. Carlyon's opinion is notable, but then, I don't keep tabs on British tabloid media, living in New Zealand (and I've never even been to Carlisle), so I'll trust your judgement on that. Cheers. Fuzzypeg★ 22:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Districts/suburbs of Carlisle

Do we really need this section listing the electoral wards of Carlisle and what type of housing you find there? Frankly, it's a bit... how can I put this... boring. Famousdog (talk) 13:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I apologise for being boring but there are similar sections on other articles about towns and cities Penrithguy (talk) 16:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Photographs of Carlisle Cathedral needed

Could someone who lives in Carlisle please photograph the East Window of the cathedral, preferable from the inside. Note that it is the tracery that is of particular importance. The window always looks very bright in photos. A Photo taken from the other end of the choir, with flash, might show some of the stained glass as well. The glass in the tracery is medieval. Pic needs to show the entire window.

A nice photo of the organ case would be good as well, and perhaps the Choir stalls, which are 15th century, the regimental chapel, and the carvings on the capitals in the choir..... Upload to Wiki Commons, and drop me a message! Amandajm (talk) 14:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Carlisle rugby football club

Hello, Any chance someone could start a page about carlisle rugby football club please. I am not sure how to do this so thought I should ask. They have a website at http://www.carlislerugby.co.uk

Thank you in advance

A

23 oct 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki login2 (talk • contribs) 17:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Simply Carlisle

I was looking to add SimplyCarlisle.com to the external links section on the Carlisle page, but an editor has removed the link.

SimplyCarlisle.com is a new dirctory site and it provides free links to the websites of any business in Carlisle, making it a good old comprehensive source when searching for restaurants, estate agents etc in the city. You also don't just get an address and phone number with website links only for the one or two companies that have paid.

I would invite another editor to repost the link if they too feel it would be a worth while addition and resource.

86.136.237.63 (talk) 19:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

This kind of link is deprocated in wikipedia and many look upon it as commercial spam. Wikipedia is not a business directory for local Carlisle people. Thanks for your good faith addition, but it cannot be allowed to stand. Sorry 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 22:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I can respect an editorial decision for Wikipedia (even if I don't understand it) however I'd hope you'd provide true comment on our site. To decribe our site as "commercial spam" is quite bizare, we have spent hundreds of hours qualifying sites to make sure there are hundreds of links to resources such as local weather, train times for specific local stations, cinema times direct from local cinemas, and countless clubs and societies and sites of special interest, really picking out the best of the web locally thus making it relevant. To quote an email in yesterday from the Princess Theatre in Torquay with respect to the Simply Torquay site; "Your site is lovely! easy to understand nice and clear...".

86.136.166.70 (talk) 12:28, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

21stCenturyGreenstuff said that "This kind of link is deprocated in wikipedia and many look upon it as commercial spam". It's the link that's regarded as spam, not your site. The underlying problem is avoiding Wikipedia becoming just another link directory. Nobody's disrespecting your site, --Northernhenge (talk) 17:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

We thought our sites would have been of use to your readers, but a link to us hasn't been possible, but now we'd kindly ask these discussions be removed as they can only damage our sites name and it's people's livelihoods that are effected. Kind Regards

86.136.166.70 (talk) 16:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

That's not how it works, especially when you go around deleting other's comments on talk pages. --Blowdart | ^talk 17:23, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think anybody has said anything bad about any of your sites and I am sure they do an admirable job for the communities they serve. Sorry but it is not considered correct to delete stuff off a talk page, (although editors can freely delete information off their own user space talk pages). If the talk page gets too big the page may be archived at some stage in the future (and probably will be). The fact that wikipedia looks upon links to commercial directories in general as commercial spam does not denegrate the activities of your venture in any way whatsoever. Good luck with your venture 21stCenturyGreenstuff (talk) 19:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

"Famous" residents

Okay, I removed a couple of persons from the famous residents list. This list is now getting pretty long and the notability criteria pretty lax. I googled "Matthew Begg poet" and didn't get any hits at all. Also, Charles Shepherd has been redlinked for a year or so and still hasn't got an article about him specifically, so he's gone. I think another way we could reduce the list is by eliminating some people who were only in Carlisle temporarily, or weren't born there, like Richard Madeley... Famousdog (talk) 08:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Page move

Where was the consensus generated for the move to Carlisle, Cumbria? I can see no consensus to move, and I suggest its moved back pending further discussion. Jenuk1985 | Talk 21:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It was done in the spirit of WP:BOLD. But hear me out... take a look at Salford, and the discussion at Salford, Greater Manchester; there there was a unanimous consensus and all agreed the change was very positive and gave good reasons for the support. There has been longstanding uncertainty about the primacy of the term "Carlisle" and confusion as to city status. Salford is one working example of this approach, Lincoln and Lancaster are others. I'm hoping to get round to some of the others. --Jza84 |  Talk  21:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Ya all know Carlisle, Ontario redirects to Carlisle? A quick look-see shows most are expecting to find Carlisle, Cumbria. Seriously, it can be done, but is it worth creating the grief? Kbthompson (talk) 23:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm confident this is worth putting to rest and believe that the change is necessary to bring Wikipedia out of the dark ages and present the issue more neutrally and clearly for our readers. Because "Carlisle" (proper) has taken primacy, it's meant people are expecting to find it is a city - the City of Carlisle. Then we have others who think we should have mergers, which has proven to never achieve consensus and wipes out either the history of the settlement, or the history of the outlying areas. Who decided Carlisle proper should take primacy over the city in the first place? I have faith this is a very good change, good for Wikipedia and our readers and eliminate a lot of confusion. --Jza84 |  Talk  23:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I have no opinion on the move itself, but I feel that a move of a major article like this should achieve consensus before carried out. Jenuk1985 | Talk 23:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

There was no WP:CUMBRIA I could take this to, and this talk page seems seldom edited. But that said, I'm not insensitive to the fact this was a very bold move. But with all my work on places in the region, and development of WP:UKGEO and WP:UKCITIES, I'm still confident that this was a move waiting to happen. The consensus at Salford melded the idea as a wise and productive choice, conductive to the good of the project. Would you both be willing to back the move, if say, I worked on the City of Carlisle (towards something more like say City of Salford)? --Jza84 |  Talk  23:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

As I said, I have no opinion (or knowledge) related to the area, so its not worth trying to convince me to be for or against such a move! Jenuk1985 | Talk 23:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

No problem - was just trying to erk one out of you! Hope you can see method to my madness if nothing else though :S --Jza84 |  Talk  23:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the madness 8^) - or should that be the method? There's a lot of work associated with these major page moves - as you well know. It also places a lot of responsibility on editors to get it right - I just corrected a load of football articles that were linking to places. Ultimately, I want to avoid constructs like 'Walford, London is the central district of the London Borough of Walford; a part of East London within Greater London'!

It is however, systematic and applies the UKCITIES naming convention. Kbthompson (talk) 09:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Implementation

[<-] about 750; also links to Carlisle, England should probably be emptied and redirected here. Kbthompson (talk) 09:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, fixed Carlisle, England ... One thing came up, do you reckon the historic 'governor' applied to the castle, or the town? Kbthompson (talk) 10:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Not sure, that's a grey area for me. :( --Jza84 |  Talk  22:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Where's the example? Nev1 (talk) 22:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

John Holland, 1st Duke of Exeter - there was another somewhere; much the same prose ... Kbthompson (talk) 10:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd say link that to Carlisle, Cumbria - it will give the most context IMHO.

Should I make a AWB request to pipelink the existing Carlisles to this page? --Jza84 |  Talk  11:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the text, constables look after castles, governors look after settlements. Nev1 (talk) 18:49, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

[<-} There's about 200 left; Category:People from Carlisle needs attention. Someone took a strict view of Carlisle and removed things called 'Carlisle' - like the railway station, the cathedral, etc. - hence some were done manually. Be good if someone could check what I've done. Thanks Kbthompson (talk) 18:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and need a County Borough of Carlisle article! cheers Kbthompson (talk) 18:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll get on to that. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  18:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Ozzy Osbourne

Ozzy Osbourne? A singer-songwriter? Technically that may be true, but I doubt it is how most people would describe him. Hell-raising heavy metal singer might be nearer the mark. Skinsmoke (talk) 19:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Osbourne never moved to or lived in Carlisle, he was left behind in Birmingham when Iommi and Ward formed the band 'Mythology' that based itself in Carlisle. Iommi sought out Osbourne when he returned to Birmingham after Mythology split. Read the biography carefully at[[1]]. Conversely Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath could be added to the resident list. Iommi lived in and was a resident of Carlisle for over twelve months, Osbourne's later stay of only a couple of weeks makes him a visitor NOT a resident.21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 22:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Lead image

In the grand scheme of things, the lead image in an article on a place as important as Carlisle may not be as important as good sourcing (there are currently only 17 references), but the first image people see in the article is still important. A dull image is off-putting, whereas an interesting one can make the read want to know more. Unfortunately, this image just doesn't do Carlisle justice. Recently an IP changed the lead image to a collage; it has merits as it incorporated several of the city's landmarks, but it probably needs to be discussed. Maybe there's a single shot on flickr that is distinctively Carlisle, or perhaps a better collage can be made? Nev1 (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

The present image does indeed look rather dull. The collage is much more appealing IMO. --Malleus Fatuorum 18:41, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree the current image is dull, but I don't like the idea of a collage either. Why squeeze lots of photos into an infobox, each image too small to see properly, when there is plenty of room to spread them out, at a larger size, throughout the article? -- Dr Greg  talk  19:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

Carlisle, Cumbria → Carlisle — This is the English encyclopedia so I would have thought that the city in England should be the prime topic. Homan's Copse (talk) 11:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• Support. English [language], not English [England]; nevertheless, the English city is the largest and most significant settlement of this name. PC78 (talk) 11:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Speedy close; nominator appears to be making WP:POINT-y nominations in protest of the request at Talk:Dover. Powers ^T 12:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
  • While I agree that the nom has made some other questionable move requests, this one at least appears to have some merit. PC78 (talk) 12:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Other similar nominations by user have been closed. As this one appears to have a legitimate case have left this open.--Nilfanion (talk) 12:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose The placement of the disambiguation page at the primary topic was deliberate to prevent the confusion of City of Carlisle with Carlisle, Cumbria it is part of set of moves in hand or planned to clarify the situation where the settlement and the administrative unit have effectively the same names. See also Salford as an example of this. Keith D (talk) 13:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Support This is kind of an odd situation. We have a genuine city, and then a government entity called "city" which is not a city. When people refer to the City of Carlisle, they're usually referring to the actual city, and not a government entity with a confusing name that includes a ton of rural land. I would even go as far as moving City of Carlisle to City of Carlisle (Local government district) to make it clear that this "city" is not a city as anyone else understands it. A disambig link on top will be vital, saying something like This article is about the populated urban center. For its government entity, see City of Carlisle (Local government district). For other uses of Carlisle, see Carlisle (disambiguation) D O N D E groovily Talk to me 13:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Comment A good comparison to this is Juneau, Alaska, another city whose government entity includes huge amounts of rural land as well as other towns, such as Douglas. In this case, there is no separate article for the government entity, despite its size. It might make sense to follow that precedent here and merge the two Carlisle articles into one. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 13:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose largely for the same reasons as Keith D. In response to Donde's suggestion, given the different boundaries of the settlement and the government district, they obviously require separate articles. If you look at the content of the two, you'll see that the focus differs greatly (or for a more developed example check out Salford, Greater Manchester and City of Salford). The current dab setup is intended to avoid confusion between the two entities; the brief explanation makes the differences plain and the reader can choose which article is more relevant to them. Take a look at this news story for example; although it relates to Salford rather than Carlisle, it illustrates the problem of confusion. It opens with "Some school rebuilding projects across Salford could be axed after the council was told to make savings of about 40% to the budget". I'm looking to include this information in one of the articles but it's not clear whether the building projects are in the settlement or the borough; from my experience of having worked on a few borough articles I'd say it's probably the wider borough as in educational contexts sources usually refer to whole boroughs, but it's not explicitly clear and I'd need to find confirmation from somewhere else. By having a dab page we're trying to avoid this confusion. I'm worried that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the proposed moves of Plymouth and Cambridge. What we have here works so I don't see a need to change it. Nev1 (talk) 14:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)