Talk:Regional power

Thailand as a regional power in SEA

I feel like Thailand is the secondary regional power of SouthEast Asia after Indonesia.Any opinions? Sobhan mohapatra (talk) 05:42, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Mainland Southeast Asia and Maritime Southeast Asia have very different historical, cultural, and religious background, they can be treated as separate regions. I reckon Mainland Southeast Asia deserves to have its own regional power. Indonesia is clearly the regional power of Maritime Southeast Asia and Thailand can be the regional power of Mainland Southeast Asia. Vic Park (talk) 09:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

New Zealand

Can we discuss how New Zealand is a regional power? All of the three articles backing up New Zealand do not explicitly mention it being a regional power.

Obviously that New Zealand has a great deal of influence in the Pacific and is also part of some important organizations, such as The Commonwealth, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, OECD, ANZUS, is an observer in the MERCOSUR and is also part of the ASEAN Plus Six, but in comparison with the others regional powers, New Zealand is not part of preeminent organisations like the BRICS, G7, OPEC nor even the G20.

One of the requirements in order to be considered a regional power is being able to exercise considerable influence on the world scale which isn't New Zealand case, since it barely has any hard power and I'm gonna assume it only has a moderate smart power. It does place fairly well in soft power rankings, though. -- 13:35, 27 March 2022 SpaceEconomist192

Who defines that a regional power should be able to exercise considerable influence on the world scale? If so, what would be the difference between a regional power and a middle power? In my opinion, as long as the country projects significant influence within its own region, it is a regional power.

In New Zealand's case, it is clearly a regional power in Oceania. In fact, I would consider it to be a middle power. New Zealand has a strong and diversified economy, due to the discovery of Zealandia, it was able to claim a very large EEZ and thus became a global maritime power. Compared with other countries which have a similar land size and population, New Zealand is very powerful. It can punch above its weight and project a notable influence on the world stage. Vic Park (talk) 09:52, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

If one of the criteria is that a regional power is the most influential in its local region, then I'm not sure NZ qualifies, since it seems to be less powerful than Australia... AnonMoos (talk) 10:09, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Well, the balance of power between Australia and New Zealand in Oceania is similar to the balance of power between Brazil and Argentina in South America. Since Argentina has been listed as a secondary regional power in South America, I see no reason why New Zealand wouldn't qualify as a secondary regional power in Oceania. Vic Park (talk) 04:51, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Kazakhstan and Jamaica

I propose the addition of Kazakhstan (member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and OPEC+) and Jamaica (member of G-15) as the regional power of Central Asia and the Caribbean respectively. Although not powerful countries on a global scale, both countries do project strong influence within their own region. Especially Kazakhstan, it is way more powerful than the other four or five countries in the Central Asian region. Vic Park (talk) 09:28, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Kazakhstan shares a very long border with Russia, and is a member of the Russia-dominated Eurasian Economic Union and Collective Security Treaty Organization. Headlines such as "Russia's 'mini-Nato' intervenes in Kazakhstan amid growing turmoil" do not suggest regional power status.

Jamaica is only a regional power if you ignore all the mainland nations which surround the Caribbean on three sides... AnonMoos (talk) 10:24, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes, Russia is influential in the region, but it is not a Central Asian country. If we only consider countries within the region, then Kazakhstan is clearly a standout candidate for regional power status.

As for the Caribbean, the United Nations defines the Caribbean as the insular region of the Americas (i.e. the 13 island countries). Mainland countries surrounding the Caribbean Sea on three sides have been assigned to Northern America (the U.S.), Central America (Mexico and Costa Rica etc.), and South America (Colombia and Venezuela) respectively. Vic Park (talk) 05:02, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Do you have scholarly sources that would describe how they are regional powers? Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 05:24, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I haven't conducted any research on the subject yet, but I would consider Kazakhstan to be a straightforward regional power in Central Asia. Vic Park (talk) 09:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Vic_Park -- You seem to have a formalistic/textual understanding of the meaning of "region". You draw lines on the globe dividing the world into fixed regions, and only consider the countries in each of these boxes in relation to each other. Many other people have a functional/dynamic understanding of the meaning of "region", and would not consider a country to be a regional power unless it's stronger than most or all neighboring or nearby countries, regardless of what regional boundary lines the UN draws on the globe... AnonMoos (talk) 07:42, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, the thing is, if we divide the world into dynamic regions, then the United States would be a regional power in every region of Earth. China is likely to be considered a regional power in every region of Asia. In that case, I think we have lost the purpose of creating this article. Vic Park (talk) 09:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

No, "neighboring or nearby" does not mean that (that's the definition of "global power"), but it does mean that it's rather pointless and useless to ignore the fact that Kazakhstan has a 4,750-mile border with Russia... AnonMoos (talk) 11:30, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Same as I told you in previous edit, your idea of geographic regions is over-segmented. It is nonsense to pick one country in a small fixed region like the Caribbean to be qualified as regional power, you are just making yourself difficult to prove. Why not you do more segmentations to other equally small regions such as Polynesia or Melanesia in Oceania so we can identify Papua New Genea or Samoa all being "regional power" from your perspective? lol Have you realised how absurd your idea is? LVTW2 (talk) 11:53, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

His idea is not absurd. A good number of you are confusing "minor" and "major" powers with regional powers. Even the article gets the basic premise wrong by dividing regions by continent. Regions can have many shapes and sizes. If reliable sources define a region and classify Samoa as a regional power, that is in effect what we should present. Prejudices about what you think of Samoa or Polynesia as a region should not cloud our understanding of regions and regional powers.--MarshalN20 ^✉🕊 18:57, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Why are you laughing at those small countries? I take offense to your comments. Some small countries, such as Taiwan or Switzerland, are still powerful countries. Oceania is a small continent compared to North America, so no subdivisions are needed. However, if Oceania is subvidided into smaller regions, then Papua New Genea can be viewed as a regional power of Melanesia. Samoa won't be powerful enough to be classified as a regional power, New Zealand can be the regional power of Polynesia instead. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 13:43, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

The term of "regional power" was never a "fair" definition granting to everyone, the status of such countries are normally recognized by surrounding countries as one, by your percerption, any individual country holding a certain strength within a fixed region can all certainly claim themselves as "regional powers", is that really how the international relations work? A principle country in a region does not just possess one trait to become a regional power, otherwise we can also include Singapore in Southeast Asia, or Taiwan in East Asia to be regarded as somehow "regional powers" in accordence with their economic strength in global scale, or even include North Korea as regional power because of its military strength or nuclear weapons. Multiple conditions are taken into consideration for inclusin of a country as regional powers, the article of Power (international_relations)#Concepts_of_political_power have a general listing conditions to define a country as principle political power in international relations, you should read through all these contents before lecturing others how to define the term.

For Example, G20, as an intergovernmental forum which only include certain economic powers in respective regions, does not reflect all countries within top 20 economies in global economy, but their career or significance perform in global trade and within their regions. Quoting from the article: "it is particularly important for the number of countries involved to be restricted and fixed to ensure the effectiveness and continuity of its activity. There are no formal criteria for G20 membership and the composition of the group has remained unchanged since it was established. In view of the objectives of the G20, it was considered important that countries and regions of systemic significance for the international financial system be included. Aspects such as geographical balance and population representation also played a major part." Did they just consider economic condition of a nation to be included in an economic forum? So why would you consider only countries in fixed regions to be included as regional powers? LVTW2 (talk) 21:59, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

If reliable sources define a region and identify regional powers, that is what should be cited in this article. We should not be judges of what is a region or who is a power in that region. This article is biased (and, therefore, inaccurate) because of users that, apparently including yourself, believe they are the ultimate authority on what country is or is not a regional power. Reality check moment. Regards.--MarshalN20 ^✉🕊 17:12, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Then please give any reliable and compelling source (not just one) for inclusion of any new listing entry, like Papua New Genea or Samoa as you said. I would be much appreciated. LVTW2 (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Algeria and Egypt

@LVTW2: See the RfC at Talk:Regional_power/Archive_5#RfC:_On_quality_of_sources.

It says that we must not include those countries for which we have got only passing mentions in sources.

Algeria and Egypt fail the requirement for inclusion.

Egypt has been discussed before too, see Talk:Regional_power/Archive_5#Egypt_as_regional_power. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 23:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Algeria is worth debating. Egypt is definitely a regional power in Africa/North Africa/Middle East. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 03:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I've read the referring links. It was the problem of lack of quality for the past references, it did not rule that both entries would not be identified or less qualified as regional powers as you claimed. The so-called "consensus" you gave in second link which involved only three editors, hardly for saying this was made by general decision. LVTW2 (talk) 16:45, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

RfC concluded that only those entries will be accepted that are backed with multiple reliable sources which describe how a particular country is a regional power per WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. Misrepresenting the RfC only proves that you can't fulfill the requirement.

Do you mean we need 300 editors to say something then only it will be called consensus? See WP:NOTAVOTE. The consensus to remove Egypt was absolutely clear. Where is the consensus for adding Algeria and/or Egypt?

I am giving you another opportunity to find the recent sources that how Algeria and Egypt are regional powers and the sources must fulfill the requirement decided on RfC whether you accept it or not. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 18:45, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Who are you exactly to have the authority for granting an "opportunity" to me for your nonsense request? lol Are you even administrator? What a joke~ LVTW2 (talk) 19:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)