Talk:Ten Lost Tribes: Difference between revisions
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== More authors on Japan== |
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"The Biblical Hebrew Origin of the Japanese People Hardcover" by Jewish author Joseph Eidelberg. This discusses some of his ideas, as well as lists possible similarities in alphabets |
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I've repeatedly explained in edit summaries and at [[User:Gihpjaor]]'s talk page why I think this fails [[WP:ELNO]] to no avail. I also pointed to two forums where he can discuss this and raised it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#Video_Lecture_on_the_Ten_Lost_Tribes_by_Rabbi_Eliyahu_Kin here]. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 20:37, 15 January 2017 (UTC) |
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:I agree that the link should remain excluded. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">[[User:MjolnirPants|<font color="green">'''MjolnirPants'''</font>]] [[User_talk:MjolnirPants|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 21:19, 15 January 2017 (UTC) |
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:Ok. I just found the original documentary. It has nothing to do with Rabbi Kin, so I hope it won't be disrupted.--[[User:Gijaor|Gijaor]] ([[User talk:Gijaor|talk]]) 00:34, 16 January 2017 (UTC) |
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https://thechristianbushido.wordpress.com/hebrew-japanese-similarities-language/ |
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== 2 Kings 17:34 == |
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Also, Tudor Parfitt's claim that its a "feature of the Western colonial enterprise" contradicts the point that many such claims are from Jewish authors. |
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This passage is referring to the foreign peoples imported into the land of Israel after the Israelites were deported, not to the Israelites living in other lands. It looked to be a useful reference for a paper I am writing, but double checking it showed it to be in error. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/198.236.192.230|198.236.192.230]] ([[User talk:198.236.192.230#top|talk]]) 22:38, 6 March 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Engelbert Kaempfer - German doctor visiting Japan in 1690-1693 C.E. |
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== Lost Tribe of Levi but not lost Levites == |
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Also lists several other regions of the world as possible Lost Tribes |
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Could someone clear this up? The Tribe of Levi page gives some explanation in the Biblical Criticism section. [[Special:Contributions/105.227.13.241|105.227.13.241]] ([[User talk:105.227.13.241|talk]]) 17:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC) |
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::The introductory paragraph of this article lists 10 Tribes including Levi. A correct listing of the 10 Tribes would ''exclude'' Levi and would also replace Joseph with Ephraim and Manasseh. During or after the Exodus, the Tribe of Joseph split into the Tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh (leaving the number of "landed" Tribes at 12) and the Levites became the "priestly" Tribe that, because it had no territory for itself, would live among the people of the other Tribes.[[User:Bayowolf|Bayowolf]] ([[User talk:Bayowolf|talk]]) 14:42, 15 June 2017 (UTC) |
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:::A rewording may be in order, but if the "lost tribes" theory includes then so do we.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 14:46, 15 June 2017 (UTC) |
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https://thechristianbushido.wordpress.com/exploring-the-biblical-roots-of-shinto/#list-2 |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified 3 external links on [[Ten Lost Tribes]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=801396790 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120114115123/http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam2.htm to http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam2.htm |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111216104529/http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam3.htm to http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam3.htm |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120114045620/http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam4.htm to http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~magi9/isracam4.htm |
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*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.dinur.org/resources/resourceCategoryDisplay.aspx?categoryID=411&rsid=478 |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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== Speculation == |
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{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} |
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We should not look as though we endorse the speculation used in the article. <small>--Comment by </small> '''[[User:SelfieCity|<span style="color:#14866d;">Selfie City</span>]]''' ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:#14866d;">talk</span>]] about my [[Special:Contributions/SelfieCity|<span style="color:#14866d;">contributions</span>]]) 22:20, 26 June 2019 (UTC) |
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The concept of the "ten lost tribes" looks particularly problematic in the case of the tribe of [[Simeon]], since by some maps and accounts they occupied an area in the south, in an enclave surrounded by the tribe of Judah. [[User:PatGallacher|PatGallacher]] ([[User talk:PatGallacher|talk]]) 00:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC) |
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== Pashtun section. == |
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I realise that I could be straying into original research. However the concept of "ten lost tribes" looks particularly schematic, since I am unable to find any ancient source which actually lists these ten tribes. The nearest we have is Josephus, who mentions that Judah and Benjamin remained left, so presumably by default the ten lost tribes were the others. [[User:PatGallacher|PatGallacher]] ([[User talk:PatGallacher|talk]]) 17:13, 15 July 2020 (UTC) |
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I'm going to remove this part because its already been proven Pashtuns have no genetic link to Jews. The dailymail is not reliable either. [[User:Akmal94|Akmal94]] ([[User talk:Akmal94|talk]]) 06:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC) |
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:These texts indicate that 10 tribes broke away from king Rehoboam of Judah and that Simeon was one of the tribes that broke away: |
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:About that time Jeroboam was going out of Jerusalem, and Ahijah the prophet of Shiloh met him on the way, wearing a new cloak. The two of them were alone out in the country, and Ahijah took hold of the new cloak he was wearing and tore it into twelve pieces. Then he said to Jeroboam, “Take ten pieces for yourself, for this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘See, I am going to tear the kingdom out of Solomon’s hand and give you ten tribes. But for the sake of my servant David and the city of Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, he will have one tribe (1 Kings 11:29-32 NIV). |
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:When all Israel saw that the king refused to listen to them, they answered the king: |
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:“What share do we have in David, what part in Jesse’s son? To your tents, Israel! Look after your own house, David!” So the Israelites went home. But as for the Israelites who were living in the towns of Judah, Rehoboam still ruled over them (1 Kings 12:16-17 NIV). |
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:[King Asa] assembled all Judah and Benjamin and the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon who had settled among them, for large numbers had come over to him from Israel (2 Chron. 15:9 NIV). [[User:RobbieMorley|RobbieMorley]] ([[User talk:RobbieMorley|talk]]) 19:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC) |
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==Original AD/BC dating usage== |
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The original dating usage (see entry December 28,2004) was AD/BC but was later changed by woke leftists without consensus. I am changing back to AD/BC until or if a consensus for CE/BCE emerges. (I have no hope or expectation that editors will act ethically or professionally. It is well established that leftists Admins and their winged monkeys interpret rules for the sole purpose of advancing their woke ideology and crushing other people.) |
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:Since the story predates the ''Anno Domini'' convention, using BC is not "the original". I think many Jewish people might object. Also, new comments at the bottom of the page, please. [[User:Kleuske|Kleuske]] ([[User talk:Kleuske|talk]]) 16:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC) |
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:''Ad hominem'' attacks will not help your case. I am not bonded to this article but it appears that consensus has already been established regarding the date convention here. Changing it unnecessarily is disruptive and not helpful to the reader. This is not the place to set forth an ideology, it is to provide information. [[User:Ifnord|Ifnord]] ([[User talk:Ifnord|talk]]) 16:07, 6 November 2021 (UTC) |
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:Following the vandalism by this anonymous troll, should this article be protected? [[User:Dimadick|Dimadick]] ([[User talk:Dimadick|talk]]) 19:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC) |
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::I know this thread lost track a bit but the CE/BCE is a more widely accepted description of the calendar nowadays, right? |
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== Jewish Indian theory == |
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This article has a section on supposed lost tribes/Native American connections. I've expanded on that to create a new article on what is known as [[Jewish Indian theory]]. It's a work in progress. Additional input would be most welcome. [[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] ([[User talk:Bondegezou|talk]]) 15:50, 6 September 2022 (UTC) |
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:@[[User:Bondegezou|Bondegezou]] thanks but please fix your citations. See [[Help:Referencing for beginners]]. Thanks. [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 16:29, 6 September 2022 (UTC) |
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== False Statement == |
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I am going to remove the statement claiming that "there is no evidence that foreigners from Assyria or other places settled the area", because it is entirely false. |
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See for example: |
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Na'aman, N. and Zadok, R. 1988. Sargon II's Deportations to Israel and Philistia (716-708 B.C.). |
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''JCS'' 40: 36-46. |
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Na'aman, N. and Zadok, R. 2000. Assyrian Deportations to the Province of Samerina in the Light |
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of Two Cuneiform Tablets from Tel Hadid, ''TA'' 27: 159-188. |
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Younger, K.L. 2004. The Repopulation of Samaria (2 Kings 17:24, 27-31) in Light of Recent |
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Study. In Hoffmeier, J. and Millard, A., eds. ''The Future of Biblical Archaeology'': |
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''Reassessing Methodologies and Assumptions''. Grand Rapids. |
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[[User:RasakiA|RasakiA]] ([[User talk:RasakiA|talk]]) 06:02, 17 October 2022 (UTC) |
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More authors on Japan
[edit]"The Biblical Hebrew Origin of the Japanese People Hardcover" by Jewish author Joseph Eidelberg. This discusses some of his ideas, as well as lists possible similarities in alphabets
https://thechristianbushido.wordpress.com/hebrew-japanese-similarities-language/
Also, Tudor Parfitt's claim that its a "feature of the Western colonial enterprise" contradicts the point that many such claims are from Jewish authors.
Engelbert Kaempfer - German doctor visiting Japan in 1690-1693 C.E.
Also lists several other regions of the world as possible Lost Tribes
https://thechristianbushido.wordpress.com/exploring-the-biblical-roots-of-shinto/#list-2
Speculation
[edit]We should not look as though we endorse the speculation used in the article. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:20, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
The concept of the "ten lost tribes" looks particularly problematic in the case of the tribe of Simeon, since by some maps and accounts they occupied an area in the south, in an enclave surrounded by the tribe of Judah. PatGallacher (talk) 00:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I realise that I could be straying into original research. However the concept of "ten lost tribes" looks particularly schematic, since I am unable to find any ancient source which actually lists these ten tribes. The nearest we have is Josephus, who mentions that Judah and Benjamin remained left, so presumably by default the ten lost tribes were the others. PatGallacher (talk) 17:13, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
- These texts indicate that 10 tribes broke away from king Rehoboam of Judah and that Simeon was one of the tribes that broke away:
- About that time Jeroboam was going out of Jerusalem, and Ahijah the prophet of Shiloh met him on the way, wearing a new cloak. The two of them were alone out in the country, and Ahijah took hold of the new cloak he was wearing and tore it into twelve pieces. Then he said to Jeroboam, “Take ten pieces for yourself, for this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘See, I am going to tear the kingdom out of Solomon’s hand and give you ten tribes. But for the sake of my servant David and the city of Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, he will have one tribe (1 Kings 11:29-32 NIV).
- When all Israel saw that the king refused to listen to them, they answered the king:
- “What share do we have in David, what part in Jesse’s son? To your tents, Israel! Look after your own house, David!” So the Israelites went home. But as for the Israelites who were living in the towns of Judah, Rehoboam still ruled over them (1 Kings 12:16-17 NIV).
- [King Asa] assembled all Judah and Benjamin and the people from Ephraim, Manasseh and Simeon who had settled among them, for large numbers had come over to him from Israel (2 Chron. 15:9 NIV). RobbieMorley (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Original AD/BC dating usage
[edit]The original dating usage (see entry December 28,2004) was AD/BC but was later changed by woke leftists without consensus. I am changing back to AD/BC until or if a consensus for CE/BCE emerges. (I have no hope or expectation that editors will act ethically or professionally. It is well established that leftists Admins and their winged monkeys interpret rules for the sole purpose of advancing their woke ideology and crushing other people.)
- Since the story predates the Anno Domini convention, using BC is not "the original". I think many Jewish people might object. Also, new comments at the bottom of the page, please. Kleuske (talk) 16:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
- Ad hominem attacks will not help your case. I am not bonded to this article but it appears that consensus has already been established regarding the date convention here. Changing it unnecessarily is disruptive and not helpful to the reader. This is not the place to set forth an ideology, it is to provide information. Ifnord (talk) 16:07, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
- Following the vandalism by this anonymous troll, should this article be protected? Dimadick (talk) 19:19, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
- I know this thread lost track a bit but the CE/BCE is a more widely accepted description of the calendar nowadays, right?
Jewish Indian theory
[edit]This article has a section on supposed lost tribes/Native American connections. I've expanded on that to create a new article on what is known as Jewish Indian theory. It's a work in progress. Additional input would be most welcome. Bondegezou (talk) 15:50, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Bondegezou thanks but please fix your citations. See Help:Referencing for beginners. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 16:29, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
False Statement
[edit]I am going to remove the statement claiming that "there is no evidence that foreigners from Assyria or other places settled the area", because it is entirely false.
See for example:
Na'aman, N. and Zadok, R. 1988. Sargon II's Deportations to Israel and Philistia (716-708 B.C.). JCS 40: 36-46.
Na'aman, N. and Zadok, R. 2000. Assyrian Deportations to the Province of Samerina in the Light of Two Cuneiform Tablets from Tel Hadid, TA 27: 159-188.
Younger, K.L. 2004. The Repopulation of Samaria (2 Kings 17:24, 27-31) in Light of Recent Study. In Hoffmeier, J. and Millard, A., eds. The Future of Biblical Archaeology: Reassessing Methodologies and Assumptions. Grand Rapids.
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