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== Robin Lane Fox's unauthorized version ==
== Robin Lane Fox's unauthorized version ==
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The section “denominational views” is misleading in the section titled latter-day saints. This is mainly due to the differing views between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other restoration sects. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day, the largest of the groups, rejects the idea that culpability for original sin is inherited by the descendants of Adam and Eve. The passage would be correct if the term original sin were replaced with “Adam’s fall.” “Original guilt” and “original sin” are synonymous to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The section “denominational views” is misleading in the section titled latter-day saints. This is mainly due to the differing views between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other restoration sects. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day, the largest of the groups, rejects the idea that culpability for original sin is inherited by the descendants of Adam and Eve. The passage would be correct if the term original sin were replaced with “Adam’s fall.” “Original guilt” and “original sin” are synonymous to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


== Eastern Orthodox ==
== Mistranslated Romans as source for Augustine: ABSURD ==

Augustine likely could read the "Letters of Paul" in their "original" far better than any of us today, despite his resentment for his Greek teacher - "Bible Greek" was way closer then to a studious of scripture than it is now. The article posits that ''Augustine's conception of original sin was based on a mistranslated passage in Paul the Apostle's Epistle to the Romans,'' which appears unreferenced? (references seem to be to Augustine's own interpretation of this matter).

Could this "mistranslation" issue be specifically referenced? Did Augustine himself quote this matter using that "wrong" Latin? Apparently we are to believe that Augustine (see ref to O'Donnel, 2006, in the Augustine article) was not very proficient in Greek. Was it THIS bad? This matter '''being so very central''' to this article (as in, ''The doctrine of original sin ... only became fully formed with the writings of Augustine'') would deserve more details, more certainty. I personally believe that Augustine was chasing his own hangups, and, perhaps, but just perhaps, justifying them partially out of a mistaken translation that was all that he knew of the matter (curious, as any Bible scholar at any time will have several translations and several "original" as a basis for analysis, see Jerome &c.). That he were ignorant of the text he used being a bad translation, and depend solely on it, I would say remains to be seen, needs more context.

I, for one, would want some certainty to be making this argument the centerpiece of this pretty good article. (full disclosure: I'm putting together some notes, perhaps for a book, where I assert that greed is The Original Sin, yes, concupiscence can be translated as greed, etc.) [[User:Yamaplos|<span style="color: blue">Yama</span><span style="color: green">Plos</span>]] [[User talk:Yamaplos|<span style="color: maroon">talk</span>]] 20:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

:OK, so he quoted Ambrosiaster. But, did he quote (wrongly) Paul's Romans'? Not clear. And not trivial. I would doubt that Augustine would solely rely on some translation of Ambrosiaster, if he knew others. Did Augustine only rely on Ambrosiaster's translation in his other writings? It would be no news that a commenter of Scripture skews things by being selective on his translations. No news, but not honest. Not that we can fix Augustine, but at least we can fix our interpretation, plus this article :) [[User:Yamaplos|<span style="color: blue">Yama</span><span style="color: green">Plos</span>]] [[User talk:Yamaplos|<span style="color: maroon">talk</span>]] 21:05, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
::The Vulgate (generally accepted as a "good translation") and Ambrosiaster's aren't that different, or are they? I don't see the ''substituted the language of all being in death "because all sinned" to "in him all sinned".'' mentioned in the article. They both have ''in quo omnes peccaverunt'', because they all sinned.

::Vulgate:
::propterea sicut per unum hominem in hunc mundum peccatum intravit et per peccatum mors et ita in omnes homines mors pertransiit in quo omnes peccaverunt

::Ambrosiaster:
::Propterea sicut per unum hominem peccatum in hunc mundum intravit et per peccatum mors et sic in omnes homines pertransiit, in quo omnes peccaverunt.

::Ambrosiaster's commentary:
::1. quoniam superius dei gratiam per Christum datam ostendit secundum ordinem veritatis, nunc ipsum ordinem unius dei patris per unum Christum filium eius declarat, ut quia unus Adam - id est Eva, quia et mulier Adam est - peccavit in omnibus, ita unus Christus filius dei peccatum vicit in omnibus. et quia propositum gratiae dei erga genus humanum ostendit. ut ipsa primordia peccati manifestaret, ab Adam coepit, qui primum peccavit, ut providentiam unius dei per unum reformasse doceret, quod per unum lapsum fuerat et tractum in mortem.


The opening sentence, "Original sin is the Christian doctrine" misrepresents Christianity as a whole. Eastern Orthodox do not have this doctrine and regard it as "new"; an innovation and change to the Christian faith which we reject. [[User:BillyBarooHoo|BillyBarooHoo]] ([[User talk:BillyBarooHoo|talk]]) 16:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
::2. hic ergo unus est, per quem salvati hanc illi reverentiam quam deo patri debemus, ipso volente. dicit enim idem alio loco: qui in his servit Christo, placet deo, cum scriptum sit: dominum deum tuum adorabis et ipsi soli servies. si ergo soli deo serviendum dicit, et Christo servire praecepit, in unitate enim dei est Christus nec dispar aut alter deus, quando cum soli deo serviendum lex conminetur, Christo serviens deo placere dicatur. igitur sicut per unum hominem peccatum in hunc mundum intravit et per peccatum mors, ita et per unum Christum damnatio peccati et mors peccati praestans vitam aeternam, quod inferius declarat. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Yamaplos|Yamaplos]] ([[User talk:Yamaplos#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Yamaplos|contribs]]) 21:21, 19 March 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Latest revision as of 12:13, 4 May 2024

Former featured articleOriginal sin is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 12, 2003Featured article candidatePromoted
May 22, 2004Featured article reviewDemoted
Current status: Former featured article


Robin Lane Fox's unauthorized version

[edit]

Re User:Wran's wp:agf edit:

14:18, 23 August 2012‎ Wran (talk | contribs)‎ . . (60,720 bytes) (+129)‎ . . (corrections) updated since my last visit (undo)

Source for edit: Fox, Robin Lane (2006). The unauthorized version : truth and fiction in the Bible. London: Penguin. ISBN 9780141022963.

  • Comment: I question using Robin Lane Fox's book unauthorized version as a wp:reliable source in the lede for the following reasons:
  1. Why is this book published by the Penguin Group and not by an academic publishing house? Penguin is known to publish Pseudo-scholarship.
  2. Why does the source given not have a page number?

LDS denominational views

[edit]

The section “denominational views” is misleading in the section titled latter-day saints. This is mainly due to the differing views between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other restoration sects. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day, the largest of the groups, rejects the idea that culpability for original sin is inherited by the descendants of Adam and Eve. The passage would be correct if the term original sin were replaced with “Adam’s fall.” “Original guilt” and “original sin” are synonymous to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Eastern Orthodox

[edit]

The opening sentence, "Original sin is the Christian doctrine" misrepresents Christianity as a whole. Eastern Orthodox do not have this doctrine and regard it as "new"; an innovation and change to the Christian faith which we reject. BillyBarooHoo (talk) 16:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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