Talk:John Sweeney (journalist): Difference between revisions
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The article seems entirely neutral, it's describing the events as they occured, it's not biased to either side. ≈ '''< |
The article seems entirely neutral, it's describing the events as they occured, it's not biased to either side. ≈ '''[[User:Maurauth|<span style="color:purple;">Maurauth</span>]]''' <span style="color: green;"><sup>([[User Talk:Maurauth|<span style="color: green;">09F9</span>]])</sup></span> 10:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:It's really too early to tell, but at this point, the article seems overweighted towards a smear campaign against a highly respected journalist that has received several awards for journalism. [[User:Smee|Smee]] 11:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
:It's really too early to tell, but at this point, the article seems overweighted towards a smear campaign against a highly respected journalist that has received several awards for journalism. [[User:Smee|Smee]] 11:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
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::Well, it portrays both sides and what actually happened on 'Scientology and Me', including how they were digging up dirt on him and harrassing his family. ≈ '''< |
::Well, it portrays both sides and what actually happened on 'Scientology and Me', including how they were digging up dirt on him and harrassing his family. ≈ '''[[User:Maurauth|<span style="color:purple;">Maurauth</span>]]''' <sup style="color:green;">([[User Talk:Maurauth|<span style="color:green;">nemesis</span>]])</sup> 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:::True. More information needs to be added on the years and years of his career before May 14th... [[User:Smee|Smee]] 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
:::True. More information needs to be added on the years and years of his career before May 14th... [[User:Smee|Smee]] 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
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:I've been bold and removed the tag - whilst the article is unfortunately light on his previous career, it covers both sides of the scientology incident and so is pretty much neutral. --[[User:163.1.165.116|163.1.165.116]] 14:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC) |
:I've been bold and removed the tag - whilst the article is unfortunately light on his previous career, it covers both sides of the scientology incident and so is pretty much neutral. --[[User:163.1.165.116|163.1.165.116]] 14:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC) |
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It seems we'd be including criticism from one side and not the other to quote the media referring to the Scientology response clip as an "attack video," but to not quote the media calling Sweeney's actions a "full-fledged meltdown" (Anderson Cooper).[http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/14/acd.01.html]--[[User:Ty580|Ty580]] 20:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC) |
It seems we'd be including criticism from one side and not the other to quote the media referring to the Scientology response clip as an "attack video," but to not quote the media calling Sweeney's actions a "full-fledged meltdown" (Anderson Cooper).[http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/14/acd.01.html]--[[User:Ty580|Ty580]] 20:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:The article has only just been made neutral again as it was bordering on [[WP:LIBEL|libel]]. ≈ '''< |
:The article has only just been made neutral again as it was bordering on [[WP:LIBEL|libel]]. ≈ '''[[User:Maurauth|<span style="color:purple;">Maurauth</span>]]''' <sup style="color:green;">([[User Talk:Maurauth|<span style="color:green;">nemesis</span>]])</sup> 20:28, 17 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:: I dont really see why someones opinion who isnt related to the situation in any way, should have any weight in the matter. I have been making an edit for another page what do you think of this in its place? (It may be too long/uneccessary as it its current form it seems to be quite concise.): |
:: I dont really see why someones opinion who isnt related to the situation in any way, should have any weight in the matter. I have been making an edit for another page what do you think of this in its place? (It may be too long/uneccessary as it its current form it seems to be quite concise.): |
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:Regarding the concern about libel, I believe that does not apply if the article merely quotes influential media figures, which is one of the reasons the [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard]] concluded this article was fine. Figures who are the subject of articles are known to sometimes threaten Jimmy Whales with lawsuits when they don't like their Wiki article, but his position is that he supports the article if it conforms to Wiki policy.--[[User:Ty580|Ty580]] 03:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC) |
:Regarding the concern about libel, I believe that does not apply if the article merely quotes influential media figures, which is one of the reasons the [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard]] concluded this article was fine. Figures who are the subject of articles are known to sometimes threaten Jimmy Whales with lawsuits when they don't like their Wiki article, but his position is that he supports the article if it conforms to Wiki policy.--[[User:Ty580|Ty580]] 03:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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=="Controversy" heading== |
=="Controversy" heading== |
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== Euros == |
== Euros == |
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I am not sure why Sweeney paid anything if the Barclay brothers lost. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/38.103.14.49|38.103.14.49]] ([[User talk:38.103.14.49|talk]]) 16:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I am not sure why Sweeney paid anything if the Barclay brothers lost. |
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==Other== |
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==Assessment comment== |
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{{Substituted comment|length=70|lastedit=20070516093419|comment= |
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*9 citations, no images. [[User:Smee|Smee]] 09:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC).}} |
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Substituted at 20:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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I have just modified 2 external links on [[John Sweeney (journalist)]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=781241572 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120425210735/http://www.barton-peveril.ac.uk/college-life/history/ to http://www.barton-peveril.ac.uk/college-life/history/ |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150213022241/http://m.asianreviewofbooks.com/detail.php?ID=1849 to http://m.asianreviewofbooks.com/detail.php?ID=1849 |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 00:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC) |
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== Place of birth == |
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Can anyone find a source for his place of birth? [[User:Danrok|Danrok]] ([[User talk:Danrok|talk]]) 13:38, 23 June 2018 (UTC) |
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== Panodrama/Tommy Robinson == |
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I can't believe no one has mentioned this subject. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2.30.159.137|2.30.159.137]] ([[User talk:2.30.159.137#top|talk]]) 21:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:This page was brought to my attention via [[WP:RFPP|requests for page protection]]. Since then, I've been keeping an eye on it. I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Sweeney_%28journalist%29&type=revision&diff=885247078&oldid=885232590 undone] an edit by {{user|Wclifton968}} not because the subject matter is not worth covering, necessarily (that's to be discussed here), but rather because it violates the [[WP:BLP|biographies of living persons policy]]. This includes definitive subjective statements such as {{tq|x is an alcoholic}} and {{tq|x is homophobic}}. Claims of homophobia, for instance, must be [[WP:RS|reliably sourced]] and presented in a balanced, dispassionate fashion, and must not be [[WP:SYNTH|synthesized]] from sources. These policies are meant to be checks on the verifiability and quality of information on Wikipedia. It's an encyclopedia after all. [[User:Airplaneman|<span style="color:blue;size=2">Airplaneman</span>]][[User talk:Airplaneman|<span style="color:#33dd44;size=2"> ✈</span>]] 22:13, 26 February 2019 (UTC) |
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Well they have him on camera laughing about his intention to lie to the public about a 'metoo' story.. surely that's worth including as it utterly destroys his credibility? Irrefutable, really. Of course, for balance, we should also include his excuse. The readers can then decide for themselves if his excuse for saying "We're trying to do a gender, a sexual thing, against Tommy Robinson" (in reference to spinning a story about a non-sexual argument) makes any sense at all. People need to be aware of this in my opinion - not knowing that he definitively uses such tactics could put people at risk, and as such I think it deserves to be included. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.47.78.171|82.47.78.171]] ([[User talk:82.47.78.171#top|talk]]) 11:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I'm also confident that telling a source what to repeat back to you so you can add it (on camera, irrefutable, easily sourced) is highly unethical behaviour that is well worth mentioning. Infact, it would be downright irresponsible not to include it. To be honest, it throws every piece of "journalism" he has ever done into question. His answers to Tommy's questions about his journalistic conduct were, for the most part, verifiable lies which only further creates the need to let people know about them. I can source all of these in a heartbeat, right down to the timestamps of the video. Not including such facts would be a stain upon Wikipedia's record of serving the public. Please either add this or allow somebody to ASAP. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.47.78.171|82.47.78.171]] ([[User talk:82.47.78.171#top|talk]]) 13:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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-- |
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=== Panodrama not WP:NPOV === |
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This was removed from the main article for violating WP:NPOV, we can only specualte as to the real reason. |
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: In February 2019, Former [[English Defence League|EDL]] member [[Tommy Robinson (activist)|Tommy Robinson]] Released a Documentary exposing the bias behind [[BBC|BBC's]] [[Panorama (TV programme)|Panorama]] and John Sweeney while he was himself making a documentary for Panorama (hence the name used by Tommy: #''Panodrama''). The documentary showed how Sweeney broke several [https://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/ BBC guidelines] on journalism such as making facts up (fake news), Harassed people who used to work for Tommy and how Sweeney showed his support for the former Irish Republican Army (IRA) Leader [[Martin McGuinness|Darren Martin Mcguiness]]. Evidence also showed that John Sweeney worked with the Far left-wing organisation [[Hope not Hate|Hope Not Hate]] when making the documentary on Tommy Robinson. <ref>{{Citation|last=Tommy Robinson|title=#Panodrama - An Exposé of the Fake News BBC!|date=2019-02-25|url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNd2bvLvyk4&t=3007s|access-date=2019-02-26}}</ref> |
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#Panodrama - An Exposé of the Fake News BBC! |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNd2bvLvyk4 |
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: BBC Panorama, BBC One, 23 February 2019. |
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: BBC Logo Complaint |
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: We received complaints following the third party release of secretly recorded material related to a BBC Panorama investigation. |
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:Response |
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: BBC Panorama is investigating Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. The BBC strongly rejects any suggestion that our journalism is ‘faked’ or biased. Any programme we broadcast will adhere to the BBC’s strict editorial guidelines. BBC Panorama’s investigation will continue. |
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: John Sweeney made some offensive and inappropriate remarks whilst being secretly recorded, for which he apologises. The BBC has a strict expenses policy and the drinks bill in this video was paid for in full by John. <ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complaint/panoramasweeney/|title=BBC - Complaints - BBC Panorama, BBC One, 23 February 2019.|website=www.bbc.co.uk|language=en-GB|access-date=2019-02-27}}</ref> |
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[[User:Tachyonhorse|Tachyonhorse]] ([[User talk:Tachyonhorse|talk]]) 00:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC) |
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Indeed. Why the good Wikipedia editors aren't allowing this reliable, verifiable, well-sourced and relevant information to be included is beyond me. Why is wikipedia not acting in a neutral manner on this? Casts doubt over the whole site should they continue to behave in such a partisan fashion. Should the public not be allowed to access this information, Wikipedia can certainly wave goodbye to any future donations from myself and many others who donate that I know. I am currently feeling a bit disgusted that I have given the site money in the past, if they are so devoid of integrity. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/82.47.78.171|82.47.78.171]] ([[User talk:82.47.78.171#top|talk]]) 22:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== New Book (on Putin) == |
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I have read a German press article ([[T-Online]]), an interview with Sweeney about his new book: https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ausland/id_92355698/suechtiger-im-kreml-putin-wird-nicht-mehr-lange-unter-uns-weilen-.html |
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notable quotations from there: |
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# In ihrem(sic!,should read:Ihrem, with capital I) neuen Buch "Der Killer im Kreml" über Wladimir Putin |
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# Wahrscheinlich ist Putin abhängig von Steroiden (re-translated to en:(very) probably, Putin is dependent on steroids / a steroids addict) |
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Does anyone know the original en title of "Der Killer im Kreml"? I think it should be added, thank you in advance. --[[User:Himbeerbläuling|Himbeerbläuling]] ([[User talk:Himbeerbläuling|talk]]) 16:53, 21 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:Agentbla added the book, so this talk thread/issue is resolved. Thanks! --[[User:Himbeerbläuling|Himbeerbläuling]] ([[User talk:Himbeerbläuling|talk]]) 16:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::{{Resolved mark}}. {{done}} --[[User:Himbeerbläuling|Himbeerbläuling]] ([[User talk:Himbeerbläuling|talk]]) 16:43, 25 July 2022 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 07:24, 11 June 2024
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Barclays owned the Telegraph in 1996?
[edit]Hardly, they took over in 2004.
Shouting, not just arguing
[edit]I changed the article to say that John was shouting, but my edit was reverted. I think this is a critically important detail - the reason this episode was controversial and received so much press coverage was precisely because John lost his temper and shouted at the other man. To call it "arguing" completely loses this very important detail - reporters argue with people all the time without it being newsworthy.
he was shouting but so was davis, john sweeney was just louder —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.201.62.36 (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Useful links ...
[edit]Useful links:
http://www.bjr.org.uk/data/2005/no4_sweeney.htm - "Bucking the system", John Sweeney writing for British Journalism Review Vol. 16, No. 4, 2005, pages 47-53 concerning the Sally Clark / Roy Meadow case.
--Swillison 11:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- I expect that fllowing the BBC Panorama programme on Scientology (and the YouTube video) there might be a lot of changes to this page in the next few days, some of it possibly vandalism. Jooler 12:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly, this page needs to be watched for vandalism. Chrisp7 18:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'll join the growing chorus and also recommend pre-emptive protection for this article. I just cleaned up pro-CoS vandalism on the BBC Panorama entry. (71.194.196.149 22:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC))
- Exactly, this page needs to be watched for vandalism. Chrisp7 18:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Have read up on the Scientology documentary, Sweeny was apparently 'bull baited' to provoke a reaction, which obviously worked. Here is an example of this technnique in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y (Pretty sure this isnt hugley relevant, but is of vague interest to this case) Chrisp7 01:00, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
- Ah, Chrisp7 again :-) Is it needed to tell in the article that scientology uploaded a doctored video clip of this event on youtube? Or can this article live without it?--Keimzelle 11:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hi there Keimzelle:) I think it might be relevant, Just added that info. Edit away if you can improve.:)Chrisp7 13:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- Do we know for sure that the Scientologists doctored their version, or do we just know that the versions are different? James Richardson 15:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md0zPchNeQ0 - this clip from BBC Breakfast has the same "British Citizen" version. Jooler 16:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- A significant different between the versions is that the CoS version doesn't have much of Tommy Davis' side of the shouting match. That could be due to editing, a directional mic, or merely that the CoS camera and mic were behind Mr. Davis. AndroidCat 23:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
This is Scientology's smear page on Panorama, the BBC and John Sweeney
[edit]This has actually changed to http://www DOT freedommag DOT org/special-reports/bbc/panorama-desperate-lies.html but the freedommag site is a blocked site on Wikipedia (why?) so I cannot add the correct link, not even here!! 13:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnalexwood (talk • contribs) Johnalexwood (talk) 13:56, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
Neutrality
[edit]Ryan1727 19:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The article seems entirely neutral, it's describing the events as they occured, it's not biased to either side. ≈ Maurauth (09F9) 10:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- It's really too early to tell, but at this point, the article seems overweighted towards a smear campaign against a highly respected journalist that has received several awards for journalism. Smee 11:07, 16 May 2007 (UTC).
- Well, it portrays both sides and what actually happened on 'Scientology and Me', including how they were digging up dirt on him and harrassing his family. ≈ Maurauth (nemesis) 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- True. More information needs to be added on the years and years of his career before May 14th... Smee 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC).
- Well, it portrays both sides and what actually happened on 'Scientology and Me', including how they were digging up dirt on him and harrassing his family. ≈ Maurauth (nemesis) 11:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
- I've been bold and removed the tag - whilst the article is unfortunately light on his previous career, it covers both sides of the scientology incident and so is pretty much neutral. --163.1.165.116 14:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Removed smear campaign information - this made the article unfairly balanced towards smear. In addition the information removed was added by a non registered member. Chrisp7 03:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Second removal of smear campaign
- I agree with User:Chrisp7, above. Smee 04:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
Hmm.. it does seem relevant to the article that he was successfully sued for criminal libel, and if it's referenced I don't see a problem with including it. If the argument is that it makes him look bad, that's not our concern, I think. --Ty580 06:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- The question becomes, is it notable enough to include, or does it overweight the article to make it look like a smear campaign against a living individual? Smee 06:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
- A search of recent news articles on Google News doesn't yield any results for "Sweeney" and "Libel," so, until CoS' criticism is reported on, it doesn't seem noteworthy to include in the Scientology section of this article. However, news sources have certainly reported on Sweeney's libel in the past, so it seems legitimate to include a single sentence in the rest of the article.
- The policy in Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons directs us to require statements are verifiable, NPOV, and NOR, but does not direct us to avoid sourced statements that potentially make the subject look bad.--Ty580 09:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Removed again - why do you continue to add this? It makes the whole article unbalanced, considering there is very little else about him. Please discuss before adding again. Chrisp7 12:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see a problem this being re-added provided it included a bit more context. The really interesting thing about that story is that John was sued under French libel law (which is much easier to break) because the radio interview in question was broadcast in Guernsey, but could be received in parts of Northern France. This is unusual and hence notable - but I agree that the way it was presented before came across as a smear. --Swillison 12:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I have restored the information on the libel case. It is certainly notable and relevant in an article about a journalist; as one editor noted on WP:BLP it is well-sourced and quite neutral, just reporting the facts. 'Balance' is not about 'weighing up' information on a scale, as if to say "a little more good stuff here, a little less bad stuff there". Using that logic we should be truncating articles on Hitler and Charles Manson because they are 'too heavily weighted' with negative information. Balance is about putting information in context and making sure that a variety of viewpoints are reflected on controversial topics.
- If what you are trying to say is that John Sweeney is a good journalist and the libel case is an unfortunate mark on an otherwise distinguished career, the thing to do is expand the article with that information, not censor it. -- Really Spooky 13:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I dont really appreciate somebody coming in and adding information that is under discussion without discussing this with anyone else - why do this? Particularly as it seems a lot of your previous editing on other pages has a pro Scientology slant. At any rate I find the 'libel' section takes up a large part of a small page and is very clumsily written - I feel if it is to be kept in (still up for discussion) it should be at the very least edited. Chrisp7 15:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- But as Really Spooky said, if it seems disproportionate, the rest of the page should try to be expanded. If I imagined the "perfect" Sweeney article, it would certainly mention the libel trial. I can't see what's clumsy about "In 1997, Sweeney was sued for criminal libel by the Barclay brothers under French libel law and was ordered to pay £2,200 by the appeal court in Rennes, France." The second sentence isn't strictly necessary (although fairly interesting) so I'm not opposed to its removal. Debate is (obviously) welcome, but I support it's inclusion. Trebor 15:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, accepted re proportionality, I agree then it should be kept in. I have edited the libel section, kept in all the facts as before (corrected the date to 1996) now I feel it reads better.Chrisp7 16:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Chrisp7, sorry if this caught you off guard, I didn't add the information, I only restored it. I have no problem with a constructive approach; I initially came across this on the BLP noticeboard and so made my comments there. Just for the record, I am neither pro-Scientology nor anti-Sweeney, nor do I have any experience with Scientology itself. Most everthing I know about Scientology (not very much) I learned through the Wikipedia articles. I only got involved in editing some of them because I enjoy the challenge of trying to achieve objectivity on what is a very polarising topic. So if it seems my editing history has a pro-Scientology slant, it is only because (at least until recently) the articles have been dominated mostly by its opponents. -- Really Spooky 17:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry if I came across a little harsh, there have been quite a few Scientology biases written in wikipedia since this latest controversy so was a little snappy. At any rate I believe the article to be better balanced now so all is good!Chrisp7 00:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
- Chrisp7, sorry if this caught you off guard, I didn't add the information, I only restored it. I have no problem with a constructive approach; I initially came across this on the BLP noticeboard and so made my comments there. Just for the record, I am neither pro-Scientology nor anti-Sweeney, nor do I have any experience with Scientology itself. Most everthing I know about Scientology (not very much) I learned through the Wikipedia articles. I only got involved in editing some of them because I enjoy the challenge of trying to achieve objectivity on what is a very polarising topic. So if it seems my editing history has a pro-Scientology slant, it is only because (at least until recently) the articles have been dominated mostly by its opponents. -- Really Spooky 17:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, accepted re proportionality, I agree then it should be kept in. I have edited the libel section, kept in all the facts as before (corrected the date to 1996) now I feel it reads better.Chrisp7 16:30, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- But as Really Spooky said, if it seems disproportionate, the rest of the page should try to be expanded. If I imagined the "perfect" Sweeney article, it would certainly mention the libel trial. I can't see what's clumsy about "In 1997, Sweeney was sued for criminal libel by the Barclay brothers under French libel law and was ordered to pay £2,200 by the appeal court in Rennes, France." The second sentence isn't strictly necessary (although fairly interesting) so I'm not opposed to its removal. Debate is (obviously) welcome, but I support it's inclusion. Trebor 15:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I dont really appreciate somebody coming in and adding information that is under discussion without discussing this with anyone else - why do this? Particularly as it seems a lot of your previous editing on other pages has a pro Scientology slant. At any rate I find the 'libel' section takes up a large part of a small page and is very clumsily written - I feel if it is to be kept in (still up for discussion) it should be at the very least edited. Chrisp7 15:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I wouldn't see a problem this being re-added provided it included a bit more context. The really interesting thing about that story is that John was sued under French libel law (which is much easier to break) because the radio interview in question was broadcast in Guernsey, but could be received in parts of Northern France. This is unusual and hence notable - but I agree that the way it was presented before came across as a smear. --Swillison 12:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Removed again - why do you continue to add this? It makes the whole article unbalanced, considering there is very little else about him. Please discuss before adding again. Chrisp7 12:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't find this article at all neutral because I uploaded facts recently with sources and they were promptly removed from the page. In my opinion this page is here as a propaganda tool to make Scientology look like a brain washing cult. If I were to add something in favor of John Sweeney it would not be altered, or if I added something slamming Scientology it would also not be altered. I added that john Sweeney’s Panorama bit violated 153 BBC guidelines and it was promptly removed. That statement is negative but it isn't bias. It was removed because this article is meant to brain wash people into believing that Scientology is a brain washing cult. Brain washing in itself can be a bias term used to slander so Ill be more specific and define exactly what the term means here in this sense. Brain washing is a method of robbing someone of self determinism to implant your determinism by getting them to identify beyond reason. The identify beyond reason is the part you need to grasp. You see it all the time. A little mouse comes running through the kitchen and your mother knocks down the whole room trying to jump onto the table. To you and me its is a little mouse, that’s reason, to her it's a ferocious beast come to eat her, that’s identify. So to identify beyond reason you have to suppress someone’s ability to reason and give them something to identify with like cute little mouse’s = death. How would you go about this? Psychiatry uses drugs and straight jackets. Basically you have to ask what I have to do to beat this self determined individual into apathy so that all he can ever do is obey. What do you think it would take to achieve this? Man is very rebellious in his nature and it would take a considerably bit more than it would take lets say a horse or a dog. Now let’s say that you have this man bent on some purpose other than his after you have drugged him and beat him into submission, what would you say his intelligence is? Probably not very high as he can only identify and not reason. Brain washing has been around for thousands of years. It was used in the Middle East and is probably where it originated. Then they were called assisans. Basically what would happen is you a 17 year old pauper gets drugged with some opium and next thing you know you wake up in the middle of a castle or some such place with streams of milk and honey and a few dozen naked virgins who can’t seem to keep their hands off of you. Your there for a couple of days then they give you the sharpest dagger you've ever seen and tell you if you want to make it back into heaven you better go kill that "God Dammed King". You being this feeble looking 17 year old gets right past the kings guards in the through way and gladly cuts his head off knowing that your gonna get beamed right back up into heaven after his body guards gets done chopping you into bits. That’s one way of doing it. That’s still in use to this day. How do you convince a man to hijack a plane and fly it into a building let alone 2? That’s not a reasoning man. How many of yall know a Scientologist? If you know one then you know that they are not a bunch of feeble minded individuals that give their money to the church beyond reason. Ever get into an argument with one? They don't argue, just reason. Try to call me a brainwashed fool and Ill ask you to define brain washing and if you don’t know then your just brain washed into believing that what you believe is better than what I believe and that I should be proven wrong and stopped beyond all reason. Try looking at things for your self and stop believing what you hear or read in the news or in some blog. If I enter fact here and you delete it as soon as it is posted then it shows that you are a feeble minded fool bent on someone else’s ideas. Have your own purposes and ideas, look at things from your own perspective. Observe things for your self and stop believing what you’re expected to believe. Now on the other hand if you are bent on destroying Scientology’s good name and that is your purpose then good luck because you will need it. People have been trying to do just that for over 50 years. Basically all I’m saying is that anytime that there is someone trying to do good in the world you got 10 more people trying to bring him down. Scientology isn’t the only organization out there doing good in the world and dam sure isn’t the only group that is being attacked, we just know how and why people attack us.Ryan1727 20:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Whatever you say, Mr Scientologist :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.200.214 (talk) 15:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, chill the beans love! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.117.23.221 (talk) 08:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Doctored video clip
[edit]The article currently states Video footage of the incident that some believe to be doctored[3] was distributed on YouTube[4] . Unless I'm missing something, the reference doesn't state that the video was doctored. --Duk 07:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I took a more detailed look at the reputable secondary sourced citation, and adjusted material accordingly. Smee 07:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
Authored books...
[edit]... are we sure these books are by this John Sweeney? Smee 09:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
- Yes - I e-mailed him and asked. --Swillison 13:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Alerted the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard...
[edit]... because of what some have referred to above as a "smear campaign", against a living person, which would be against WP:BLP. Smee 11:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC).
Awards
[edit]http://www.projectklebnikov.org/members/sweeney.html lists some awards won by John Sweeney; these should be included in the article. --Swillison 13:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Indeed they should. -- Really Spooky 14:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Include criticism from both sides?
[edit]It seems we'd be including criticism from one side and not the other to quote the media referring to the Scientology response clip as an "attack video," but to not quote the media calling Sweeney's actions a "full-fledged meltdown" (Anderson Cooper).[1]--Ty580 20:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- The article has only just been made neutral again as it was bordering on libel. ≈ Maurauth (nemesis) 20:28, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- I dont really see why someones opinion who isnt related to the situation in any way, should have any weight in the matter. I have been making an edit for another page what do you think of this in its place? (It may be too long/uneccessary as it its current form it seems to be quite concise.):
On 14th May 2007, an episode titled Scientology and Me was broadcast. It was written and presented by the Journalist John Sweeney showing how the Church reacted to his investigations. Prior to its broadcast video footage filmed by the Church of Scientology was released on YouTube[1] and distributed own "counter-documentary" DVD to lobby against, in its view, a one-sided view of the Church. [2] The clip showed Mr. Sweeney losing his temper with Scientologist representative Tommy Davis during a visit to the Church's anti-psychiatry exhibit, "Industry of Death". In response the BBC aired their own recording of the incident.[3] The BBC labeled the leaked video clips as "attack videos" and others say they were produced to discredit Mr.Sweeney and the documentary [4] however John Sweeney, according to Sandy Smith, editor of Panorama, "completely lost it in a way that I don't condone." Smith was "very disappointed with John, and he's very disappointed."[5] Mr. Sweeney says that this was a result of a weeklong campaign of harassment against himself and his family by Davis and the Church. [6] The edition attracted Panorama's highest audience of the current series so far.[7] Chrisp7 21:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- That looks goood to me. The point about Cooper's quote is it's representative of the other side that's present in the news commentary on this subject, which makes it relevant to this article. Its importance is that the media (including the BBC and Sweeney) regarded Sweeney's comments as being stronger than merely "getting upset."
- Regarding the concern about libel, I believe that does not apply if the article merely quotes influential media figures, which is one of the reasons the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard concluded this article was fine. Figures who are the subject of articles are known to sometimes threaten Jimmy Whales with lawsuits when they don't like their Wiki article, but his position is that he supports the article if it conforms to Wiki policy.--Ty580 03:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
References
- ^ John Sweeney - BBC Panorama Reporter at work (Scientologist Video of events) - YouTube clip
- ^ (Travolta and DVD Distribution by Scientology) The Daily Mail 14th May 2007
- ^ BBC Report on John Sweeney (BBC Video of events) - BBC News clip 14th May 2007
- ^ Staff (April, 14, 2007). "Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees - Inside Scientology". Anderson Cooper 360. CNN.
{{cite news}}
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suggested) (help) - ^ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/05/investigating_scientology_1.html
- ^ Row over Scientology video
- ^ Oatts, Joanne. "Journalist's 'Panorama' outburst brings in 4.4m". DigitalSpy. Retrieved 2007-05-15.
"Controversy" heading
[edit]How about removing the whole "Controversy" section? As it is about half the text of the article is about 2 small incidents in his whole life and career. Steve Dufour 05:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- Because it's a very notable incident? More can be added to the other sections, dontchaknow. Finding some way to cut it down might not be bad, though. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 16:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- Is getting into a slap fight with a Scientologist more important than a career in which he risked his life reporting on wars in over 60 couintries? If I went down to my local Scientology church and got into a fight would I have a WP article written about me? Steve Dufour 21:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- But at the same time his "notability" has rocketed as a result of the incident. It might not seem fair, but I expect a lot more people will know him for getting into a "slap fight" than for his reporting on wars. One measure would be to see how much more has been written about him since the incident. Trebor 21:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- Is getting into a slap fight with a Scientologist more important than a career in which he risked his life reporting on wars in over 60 couintries? If I went down to my local Scientology church and got into a fight would I have a WP article written about me? Steve Dufour 21:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- I removed the "Controversy" heading so that the two incidents do not have a tendentious labelling. Philip Cross 16:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Useful links ...
[edit]The coverage of the actual Panorama episode itself is pretty weak. The main topic of the episode was how Scientology was keeping track of the team trying to make it - through following them, visiting their hotel, discrediting their witnesses and so on. This is hardly touched on at all, but is very relevant to understanding John's outburst (which does receive coverage). --Swillison 12:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Scientology Portal... really?
[edit]Is there a good reason why this article is in the Scientology portal? He was a well respected journalist before that incident - it seems that listing him in this group unnecessarily highlights a single controversial piece of his.--Vince | Talk 07:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
- I plan on removing this if no one has any objections.--Vince | Talk 07:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Controversial trip with students to North Korea
[edit]JS and the BBC have been heavily criticised by the London School of Eonomics for deception and endangering students on a trip to North Korea.
Key points:
- JS accompanied a group of LSE students on a trip to North Korea.
- The students were told 'a journalist' would be accompanying them. In fact it was an undercover team of three people, including JS.
- The LSE was not told anything about it (the trip was made by LSE students but not organised by the LSE).
- JS posed as a professor at the LSE, a deception: he has no position at the LSE (although he did attend it as a student many years ago).
- Had the deception been discovered the whole party could have been arrested - the deception put the students at risk without their knowledge or consent.
Sources: many UK newspapers / reports on Sunday 14th April 2013.
E.g.
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22140716 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.153.195 (talk) 12:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Sweeny reviewing the Tom Cruise film Valkyrie.
[edit]"Sweeney also appeared to lose it in January 2009 when being interviewed on Radio 4 about the Tom Cruise film Valkyrie.[16]" Is this a joke insertion? The above interview was clearly parodying his previous outburst with Tommy Davies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Themadhair (talk • contribs) 17:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Viral Video
[edit]I have just added a link to the original shouting video which surprisingly wasn't already there (did I miss it)? I want to add a 'viral video' or 'internet meme' category to this as it was a big news story for a good week or so. But I suppose to do that, the video itself would have to have an entry in WP. I would like to create a page for it - what do you think? Johnalexwood (talk) 13:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
New Scientology project?
[edit]I was reading about a confrontation between Mike Rinder and some Scientologists in Clearwater, and he mentions that he was on the phone doing an interview with Sweeny and the confrontation had been recorded. http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/miscavige-meltdown/ Is there any more information on any new project he's doing on Scientology? --Kaotac (talk) 04:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Project Chanology
[edit]What does Project Chanology have to do with John Sweeney? I don't see a direct connection between the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.255.58 (talk) 14:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Personal life / background?
[edit]Absent from article, which is unusual for a high profile TV figure.
John Sweeney (b. 1958) is married to Tomika Sweeney (neé Newson, b. 24th Oct 1982), another BBC employee (part-time) and employee of the LSE, who was one of the group that accompanied LSE students on an undercover trip to North Korea to make a documentary. He posed as an LSE academic during the trip, such deception being an imprison able offence in NK, without making the students aware of the xtn of the dception or that there were three people from the BBC on the trip. (The students were told there was in person). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.153.195 (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Question
[edit]Did John Sweeney use a false passport to enter the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.31.64 (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Euros
[edit]I am not sure why Sweeney paid anything if the Barclay brothers lost. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.103.14.49 (talk) 16:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Other
[edit]Assessment comment
[edit]The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Sweeney (journalist)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
*9 citations, no images. Smee 09:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC). |
Last edited at 09:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Place of birth
[edit]Can anyone find a source for his place of birth? Danrok (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
Panodrama/Tommy Robinson
[edit]I can't believe no one has mentioned this subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.159.137 (talk) 21:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- This page was brought to my attention via requests for page protection. Since then, I've been keeping an eye on it. I've undone an edit by Wclifton968 (talk · contribs) not because the subject matter is not worth covering, necessarily (that's to be discussed here), but rather because it violates the biographies of living persons policy. This includes definitive subjective statements such as
x is an alcoholic
andx is homophobic
. Claims of homophobia, for instance, must be reliably sourced and presented in a balanced, dispassionate fashion, and must not be synthesized from sources. These policies are meant to be checks on the verifiability and quality of information on Wikipedia. It's an encyclopedia after all. Airplaneman ✈ 22:13, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
Well they have him on camera laughing about his intention to lie to the public about a 'metoo' story.. surely that's worth including as it utterly destroys his credibility? Irrefutable, really. Of course, for balance, we should also include his excuse. The readers can then decide for themselves if his excuse for saying "We're trying to do a gender, a sexual thing, against Tommy Robinson" (in reference to spinning a story about a non-sexual argument) makes any sense at all. People need to be aware of this in my opinion - not knowing that he definitively uses such tactics could put people at risk, and as such I think it deserves to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 11:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
I'm also confident that telling a source what to repeat back to you so you can add it (on camera, irrefutable, easily sourced) is highly unethical behaviour that is well worth mentioning. Infact, it would be downright irresponsible not to include it. To be honest, it throws every piece of "journalism" he has ever done into question. His answers to Tommy's questions about his journalistic conduct were, for the most part, verifiable lies which only further creates the need to let people know about them. I can source all of these in a heartbeat, right down to the timestamps of the video. Not including such facts would be a stain upon Wikipedia's record of serving the public. Please either add this or allow somebody to ASAP. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 13:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC) --
Panodrama not WP:NPOV
[edit]This was removed from the main article for violating WP:NPOV, we can only specualte as to the real reason.
- In February 2019, Former EDL member Tommy Robinson Released a Documentary exposing the bias behind BBC's Panorama and John Sweeney while he was himself making a documentary for Panorama (hence the name used by Tommy: #Panodrama). The documentary showed how Sweeney broke several BBC guidelines on journalism such as making facts up (fake news), Harassed people who used to work for Tommy and how Sweeney showed his support for the former Irish Republican Army (IRA) Leader Darren Martin Mcguiness. Evidence also showed that John Sweeney worked with the Far left-wing organisation Hope Not Hate when making the documentary on Tommy Robinson. [1]
- Panodrama - An Exposé of the Fake News BBC!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNd2bvLvyk4
- BBC Panorama, BBC One, 23 February 2019.
- BBC Logo Complaint
- We received complaints following the third party release of secretly recorded material related to a BBC Panorama investigation.
- Response
- BBC Panorama is investigating Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. The BBC strongly rejects any suggestion that our journalism is ‘faked’ or biased. Any programme we broadcast will adhere to the BBC’s strict editorial guidelines. BBC Panorama’s investigation will continue.
- John Sweeney made some offensive and inappropriate remarks whilst being secretly recorded, for which he apologises. The BBC has a strict expenses policy and the drinks bill in this video was paid for in full by John. [2]
Tachyonhorse (talk) 00:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Indeed. Why the good Wikipedia editors aren't allowing this reliable, verifiable, well-sourced and relevant information to be included is beyond me. Why is wikipedia not acting in a neutral manner on this? Casts doubt over the whole site should they continue to behave in such a partisan fashion. Should the public not be allowed to access this information, Wikipedia can certainly wave goodbye to any future donations from myself and many others who donate that I know. I am currently feeling a bit disgusted that I have given the site money in the past, if they are so devoid of integrity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.78.171 (talk) 22:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ Tommy Robinson (2019-02-25), #Panodrama - An Exposé of the Fake News BBC!, retrieved 2019-02-26
- ^ "BBC - Complaints - BBC Panorama, BBC One, 23 February 2019". www.bbc.co.uk. Retrieved 2019-02-27.
New Book (on Putin)
[edit]I have read a German press article (T-Online), an interview with Sweeney about his new book: https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ausland/id_92355698/suechtiger-im-kreml-putin-wird-nicht-mehr-lange-unter-uns-weilen-.html notable quotations from there:
- In ihrem(sic!,should read:Ihrem, with capital I) neuen Buch "Der Killer im Kreml" über Wladimir Putin
- Wahrscheinlich ist Putin abhängig von Steroiden (re-translated to en:(very) probably, Putin is dependent on steroids / a steroids addict)
Does anyone know the original en title of "Der Killer im Kreml"? I think it should be added, thank you in advance. --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 16:53, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
- Agentbla added the book, so this talk thread/issue is resolved. Thanks! --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Resolved.
Erledigt --Himbeerbläuling (talk) 16:43, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- Biography articles of living people
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