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Weapon

Should the rifle type be mentioned i.e. .22 caliber, at least in the infobox? Is there a source for this? Thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 13:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 {{Wikipedia:Featured article tools|1=Jeremy Bamber}}
+== Weapon ==
-== Third party claim of Bamber being sexually assaulted ==
+Should the rifle type be mentioned i.e. [[.22 caliber]], at least in the infobox? Is there a source for this? Thanks [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
-A sentence in the article reads: "Brett Collins, a former close friend of Bamber's, claims Bamber was sexually assaulted when he was 11." This statement appears to be cited to Powell, at Pages 46 & 48. Powell, Claire (1994). [https://books.google.com/books?id=ZN1rHAAACAAJ ''Murder at White House Farm'']. Headline Book Publishing. [[ISBN (identifier)|ISBN]] [[Special:BookSources/978-0747243663|<bdi>978-0747243663</bdi>]]. Three questions: (1) As a reported claim of a third person, is the statement necessary as part of the article? If so, (2) is the source cited for the claim adequate as a reference to support the statement? (3) Does such a claim need an additional, independent source (or sources) in order to remain in the article? My own inclination is that the sentence is poorly sourced and does not add to the encyclopedic value of the article. I would remove it, but I'm interested in others' insights and observations, so I bring it up here. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 21:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
-:Can you quote what the source says? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:45, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
-::{{reply to|EEng}} No, as the book cited as the source is not online and has no preview, so I have not been able to verify exactly what is said. I tried to find a listing for the book in a library near my, but I found nothing. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 22:03, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
-:::I'm going away in a week or so until mid-September, but if you ping me then I'll get it. In the meantime that tidbit's been there at least 10 years so I don't think we need to sweat it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:24, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
-::::Thanks. Will do. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 22:26, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
-::::{{reply to|EEng}} I found two other books, one of which has a preview available online. [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Pure_Evil/hjI_DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Bamber+was+sexually+assaulted&pg=PT124&printsec=frontcover Pure Evil: Inside the Minds and Crimes of Britain’s Worst Criminals],  Geoffrey Wansell · Penguin 2018, ISBN 9781405936163. The other was written by the husband and father of the victims: In Search of the Rainbow's End: Inside the White House Farm Murders, Colin Caffell · Hodder & Stoughton 2020,  ISBN 9781529309171 (reprint of original published in 1994). No preview for that one and no copy in a library near me. Wansell repeats the allegation without naming the source and leaves the allegation as unconfirmed. FWIW, seems like a thin reed, like repeating the old canard about the goings on in public schools back in the day. I'll be interested in your take when you have a chance to look at Powell's (and/or Caffell's) book. [[User:Glane23|Geoff]] &#124; <sup> [[User talk:Glane23#top|Who, me?]]</sup> 22:21, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
-: Don't forget to ping me in September. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:05, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
-::It's not quite mid-September but I feel uncomfortable under BLP that us saying someone was a victim of child sexual abuse based on a third party claim is appropriate. So also under BLP I have removed it. If/when @[[User:EEng|EEng]] or someone else gets the sourcing if it proves to be a stronger claim than that, I could understand a different outcome being reached. Best, [[User:Barkeep49|Barkeep49]] ([[User_talk:Barkeep49|talk]]) 19:43, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::(For the record: your edit here [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=1109247302].) That's fine. I'm still away from my base of operations, but in a few weeks I should be back. Wansell appears to be held by zero academic libraries and appears to be a pop book of little or no value; but I can get the other two. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:33, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
-::::After a long estrangement, I'll be back at the library again tomorrow. But... I just realized I made the same mistake I made two months ago: forgot to order them from storage. Someday I'll get it right. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
-===Got 'em (finally)===
-*Powell (p. 38): "His New Zealand friend, Brett Collins, later claimed that Jeremy had been sexually molested when he was eleven years old -- the age he started as a boarder at Gresham. Collins offered his own psychological interpretation of the alleged incident, claiming that Bamber was deeply affected by the incident and developed a deep aversion to homosexuals."
-*Caffell: Nothing I could find.
-*Lomax (2008, p.68): "However, at only eight years of age he was sent to Gresham Boys' Public School ... Bamber disliked boarding school ... was deeply upset when he friend he confided in let the other pupils know that Bamber was adopted, which resulted in him being bullied. Bamber left Gresham's, before completing his A Level courses ... His time at Gresham's left Bamber with an ability to be self-sufficient and a desire for independence." In other words, nothing about the abuse asserted in Powell (above).
-*Wilkes, ''Blood Relations'' (1994): Extensive index entries under ''Sexuality'' have nothing on this.
-*Wansell: Couldn't get it, but from the description appears to be worthless as a source.
-So what we have is that Powell says that Collins said this, but gives no source for where she (Powell) got this. (Actually, not of the four books I examined gives any sources.) None of the other sources say anything about it. I don't think we should say anything about this under the circumstances. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)