Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 May 13

13 May 2007

The Baseball Channel

The Baseball Channel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

A quick glance at Google News suggests that enough reliable sources ([1] [2] [3]) exist to establish this future television channel's encyclopedicity. The project has been in gestation/vaporware forever, which I think only adds to the encyclopedic interest - is the the Duke Nukem Forever of TV channels? FCYTravis 02:06, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn. Was at The Baseball Channel until today, in fact. Should have never remained deleted anyway. --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Qian Zhijun

Qian Zhijun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

This article was on AfD. The discussion was closed early by User:Daniel Bryant. After discussion on his talk page here, he reversed himself, saying "I have overturned my closure and relisted on the basis of substantial new information and arguments. Fellow administrators, please let this run at least another five days from today (see my sig for date) before closing, to let the debate which was shut down too early by myself complete itself, before making a decision." However, User:Drini nevertheless closed only a few hours later, with the edit summery "don't be a dick". I was on the point of adding a comment to the AfD when Drini closed, and I asked him twice on his talk page to reverse himself. he refuesed, explicitly citing WP:IAR as his justification. (See this exchange) As I was composing a post to Deletion Reveiw, User:Matt Crypto reverted Drini's close. Perhaps I should have brought the matter here at once. Insted I added my comment to the re-opened AfD, as did several other editors. Then Daniel Bryant, objecting quite reasonably to Matt Crypto's revert, reveted to Drini's close, thus removing my comments and those of four other editors, made in good faith. He also altered his own earlier request to let the AfD run, significantly reducing its strength to a "suggestion" and removing the mention of the full five days. There are several process problems here, IMO. There was no consensus to delete at the time of Drini's close (and not a clear one at the time of the earlier undone clsoe), but he closed it as a delete. Matt Crypto should not have simply reverted Drini's close (although if IAR aupports one out-of-process action, perhaps it supports a revert of it). Daniel Bryant in undoing Matt Crypto's action, should not have reveerted the commetns of five other editors. Drini's close was based on his judgement of the notability issues, but it was not supported by a consensus, and early closes (particularly when undoing a prior decison to relist) should have a clear consensus, IMO. Some editors had raised WP:BLP issues, but argumets i find persuasive said that these do not apply: the informatiuon is well sourced, is not particularly negative or controversial, and the Qian Zhijun himself has created a website on which he publicizes the facts involved, so he must not find them overly embarrasing or harmful. I request that the early closes be Overturned, and that the articel be Relisted, with all prior commets included, and that we all be more wary of a rush to judgemetn in future. DES ^(talk) 00:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep deleted the process is a mess - so let's stick to the 'facts': this is a WP:BLP article about a fat teenager who was made fun of on the internet, and got his unfortunate 15 min of fame in some newspapers that were used to wrap chips the next day. We don't need this. Whilst it might merit a mention on Sick things people have done on the internet, the child victim certainly does not merit a perpetual wikipedia biography. Let's not be dicks.--Doc^g 00:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't belive that is an accurate assessment of the situation. We usually consider continuing coverage in major newspapers worthy of note. I made that argument more fully in My AfD comment, which is the place for it. I am asking here that a proper discussion of you views and those who hold quite different views be allowed to complete on AfD. Note that at the time Drini closed, i count 6 dels and 5 keeps, with significant argumetns each way -- hardly consensus to delete. DES ^(talk) 01:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
    • This is not worth debating - and certainly not vote counting over. Get a grip. We are better than this.--Doc^g 01:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Oh for heaven's sake what a ridiculous reason for coming to deletion review. It's bollocks and it must die. Fuck process before it fucks this kid's life even worse than it has been already. --Tony Sidaway 01:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  If he felt that his life was "fucked" by this, he would not be acting as he is -- continuing to publicize the matter himself. DES ^(talk) 01:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

  That he participates in his own degradation does not excuse us from our obligations to him as a human being. --Tony Sidaway 01:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse close. Drini's close (and that of Daniel.Bryant before) is entirely valid and should never have been overruled. Daniel.Bryant was right to restore it and to remove comments made after a valid close. The weight of WP:BLP concerns and our basic responsibility to act responsibly in providing encyclopedic content clearly trump the weak appeal to WP:NOT#CENSORED made in the discussion. We do not keep negative pages about people of borderline notability. The closer's reading of the debate was in my opinion correct. WjBscribe 01:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• As I commented on the original AfD I was asked to come here. My response will be the same as it always is, then; what I have to say in the original AfD stands as is, and everyone commenting on the DRV or determining the correct outcome should be reading the AfD anyway. Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 01:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse closure -There is no evidence that this person's life has any lasting encyclopedicity, and Wikipedia should not be in the business of recording for posterity anyone who ever had their picture photoshopped. Whether or not the fact that his picture was photoshopped is encyclopedic, the person himself most certainly is not. FCYTravis 01:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn and relist. Drini's close is a terrible reading of the debate (if you can even call it that - I believe he's simply advancing a completely new argument in the closure) and there was not consensus. Furthermore, the BLP concerns are bollocks here - there is nothing negative in the article that I can find, and even if there was, everything in there is backed up in reliable sources. I'd rather there weren't a bunch of admin reversions in this, but Drini's closure effectively took the result completely out of the hands of the community, and given that (1) there is no complaint here from the subject, (2) I would think we might have learned our lesson after Daniel Brandt, and (3) the argument on which this is deleted is not supported even in the BLP policy. Relist because in a BLP case consensus ought to be found, not given up on. But, if anything, the keep arguments were stronger here. Mangojuice^talk 01:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• comment I am now informed that the inital closure was not early, and I have struck that word above. I was misled by the words "premature" and "too early" which was used in the relisting comment. Instead it was reopened for "new information" DES ^(talk) 02:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Strong overturn, and don't relist. When you have multiple reliable sources referring to him as one of the most famous faces in China, it's a done deal. Period. --badlydrawnjeff talk 02:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)