User talk:TTN/Archive 6

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YOUR A DIPSHIT WHO LIKES TO CAUSE TROUBLE... FKN ASSTARD

List of Teen Titans episodes

I've noticed you redirected the episode articles on Teen Titans. I see you have done this with many other episode articles from other series as well. How come you don't take this up on the Lists' talk page? I am aware that the articles does not follow WP:EPISODE (I wrote some of Teen Titans articles), but why don't help out in finding relevant information for the articles and then edit them, instead of just redirecting them? Michae2109 13:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Most will not have a problem with it, so it is easier to bother discussing after it happens. There is no way that I can improve them because there is no way to do it. There are no detailed sources available, and you need to have sources before creating the articles. Hopefully, you can prove me wrong and provide some. TTN 15:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by that; "there is no way to improve them"? This is Wikipedia, all articles (save perhaps for the featured articles) can be improved in some way. If there are not suffcient sources available for episode articles, then perhaps there are enough sources for season articles. That's why you should take this up on the articles' talk page, to discuss how to improve articles instead of just deleting them. I am working on writing articles on the two seasons of Black Lagoon, fortunately, there seem to be plenty of reviews and facts conserning the two seasons of the series. In my opinion, there are no Wikipedia articles that cannot be improved.

FYI ANI

If you were not already aware, you may be interested in WP:ANI#User:TTN redirecting. --Kralizec! (talk) 17:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

List of Extraterrestrials in Dragon Ball

TTN, you (or someone else) tagged the page {{db}} reason being "superfluous" and that caused a bunch of redirects to be deleted or marked for deletion. Why was this exactly? Lord Sesshomaru

It wasn't me. I would guess that someone thought it was a worthless redirect. TTN 20:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll simply have it recreated. Uh, any thoughts before I do? Lord Sesshomaru

Why bother? It's just a capitalized word. You may as well just recreate the others and leave that one. TTN 00:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh? Then should List of aliens in Dragon Ball, List of other aliens in Dragon Ball, List of other Aliens in Dragon Ball, List of other extraterrestrials in Dragon Ball and List of other Extraterrestrials in Dragon Ball be marked for deletion also? Lord Sesshomaru

The two with caps should probably be removed, but the others seem like legitimate redirects. TTN 00:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Would you kindly tag the ones you believe should now be deleted with db, reason: superfluous? If it's not too much trouble for you, I have to go. Lord Sesshomaru

I just missed sampling one: List of Aliens in Dragon Ball. Lord Sesshomaru

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the redirects. If it were something akin to Brollli or Brollllli redirecting to Broly (something I've actually dealt with before, believe it or not), they should be deleted. Minor capitalization such as this doesn't pose much of a problem IMHO. // DecaimientoPoético 00:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

It's just rather pointless to have redirects that won't be used. Nobody is going to try randomly capitalizing a word. I don't feel like putting them up, though. Someone else can do it. TTN 00:43, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Finito! [1], [2], [3]. Lord Sesshomaru

Pascal.Tesson took care of it — TTN, you were the only one who originally disagreed with it. Me, that user and Poetic Decay are alright with the caps. Lord Sesshomaru

Whatever, if people find pointless redirects fine, I don't really care. It's just sort of pointless to have random redirects all over the place. TTN 16:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Garth Marenghi's Darkplace

You should have at least discussed the merging on the seperate episode talk pages before merging. Although judging by comments by other users you don't seem to know how. --> 7+1 20:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

When I bother to post messages for episodes, they're replied to one out of thirty times. It is much easier to do it and discuss certain ones after. TTN 20:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Episode pages

Why this project of yours to remove episode pages? Many are works in progress, and a note on the talk page to suggest they should be improved according to Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/Episodes guidelines would be more constructive. I note you redirected all the Foyle's War episodes without even the courtesy of a note on the talk page. Admittedly, most were stubs, but others were being worked on. You are destroying hours of work by many conscientious contributors without even engaging with them about the rationale, or discussing your actions with the wikiproject most concerned.Gwinva 06:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I put a great deal of work into making the Yes Minister/Yes, Prime Minister pages. Are you making this a personal vendetta against all TV series on Wikipedia? It's downright disrespectful to the efforts of others. Chris 42 09:22, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I stand by my comments above. If the articles are insufficient in your view, then let them be improved by others. You can't just delete episode articles wholesale and expect the people who create/maintain them to accept it without question. How many other shows' episode articles do you intend to obliterate? Lost, The Sopranos, House, Star Trek and Doctor Who (to name just a few) all have them, and most follow a similar format. Supposing someone wanted to add the extra info you describe to the Yes Minister articles? Are you really suggesting they should start from the ground up and recreate them from scratch? Chris 42 12:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for your reply and the link to current discussion. I understand what you're doing, and possibly agree with some of your problems with individual pages, but I think wholesale redirects are happening too quickly and just winding everyone up. Perhaps a warning on each page that they do not reach wikipedia standards would be sufficient. You can't just delete pages because they are unsourced, badly written, or lack as much information as they might. A lot of people can't find the histories on redirect pages if they do want to work on an article, or only contribute to existing articles. Merges might be more sensible, but I realise that takes more time. But there is no rush, and you might find other people come on board with you, rather than getting angry. Get Wikiproject television behind you, and a decent consensus about when episode pages are appropriate. The fact is, whatever any style guide says, most people don't get all the resources and support together before writing an article. Most start as stubs and are eventually improved. Understanding of the programmes involved is also imortant. Soaps, sitcoms etc etc are hardly worthy of invidual episode pages, I agree (and I wonder why people bother writing them, but that’s up to them), but there are many programmes out there that are worthy. Take Yes Minister: an iconic programme that served as a commentary on British politics and the civil service. Some of the storylines are so classic (and 'true' in the sense they reflect reality) that they influence politics today, or are referred to by the public. As for Foyle's War, most were stubs, containing little or no info (which, again, I wouldn’t bother creating in such a state), but the concept of the pages existing (in full form) is a good one. They are all feature-length, complex, enjoyed by many, and as worthy of comment as any cinema-released feature film (and sequels). I did hesitate before restoring the stubs, I admit, but decided that interested parties are more likely to contribute to an existing page than create one (which last is still more likely than them hunting through a redirect history). Secondly, I canvassed for opinion not because I have anything against you, but because interested projects should reach some consensus about when episode pages are appropriate. Perhaps everyone will agree with you. Good, then you'll have help. Perhaps people won't... in which case, you'd do best to avoid your redirecting practice. Gwinva 13:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Same with me on the Cosby Show episodes. If you are going to do something so drastic, at least have the common courtesy to mention this on the talk page in advance so, if it can be improved, someone can make the improvements. WAVY 10 15:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

With regard to your comments on the Yes Minister episode articles, while you may think they are "mediocre", I was awarded a Barnstar for my efforts, if that says anything. I'm sorry if it appears that not many others have edited them, but have you considered (and this isn't blowing my own trumpet) that others have read them and have been happy with them as they are? If you'd bothered to read the main YM article, you will see that each episode of the series was specifically written to satirise/explain an aspect of the way that the UK is governed. In that respect, it could be argued that the episode articles need no further commentary: their content speaks for itself. I found this definition of 'encyclopedia' on the OED's website: "[it gives] information on many subjects or on many aspects of one subject" (italics mine). The YM episode articles (and indeed those of any other TV show) are "many aspects" of their parent subject. YM is regarded by many as a classic series. How can those of today's generation who are interested in such things find out anything about them if you continue with this crusade? If you have read my latest post to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Using Wikipedia:Television episodes, you'll have seen a link to Wikipedia:Editing policy#Major changes. I'll repeat the quote here: "So, whatever you do, try to preserve information [...] If, in your considered judgment, a page simply needs to be rewritten or changed substantially, go ahead and do that." Please don't delete pages out of sheer bloody-mindedness: you are upsetting a lot of editors, and obviously have scant regard for their contributions, some of them constituting many months' work. Chris 42 17:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I would personally like to commend you for taking a stand on this issue. Though I personally would not have just gone out and redirected everything without asking everyone else first, I have found that in my attempts to do that I don't get much of a response. I think the only time anyone actually cares what happens to most of these articles is when someone either deletes them or redirects them. I find it funny that WP:TV even has as system (Series article -> Season -> Episode) and yet people ignore it. If someone creates 150 episode articles for one series, with nothing but plots, despite the fact that they disregarded the guidelines for establishing these pages, the most we can do is propose merges for all of them. I think things can be done to improve them, I've personally worked to get Aquaman (TV program) and Pilot (Smallville) into better shape, but you won't find that much information for every episode of a series... probably not even half that. I even came up with a new format for season pages that would help curve this need to create these individuals episode articles. Though our methods differ (more so probably because I think you finally got fed up with the "it will be improved" responses), I appreciate what you are trying to do... which (as I see it) is make the system of articles better as a whole.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I completely understand. I've battled the same group of people on the Smallville pages. It's always "well, others are like this". Even when we had a clear consensus to not create anymore articles for those episodes, someone went in and created another seasons worth. I finally got tired of it and decided to clean them all up myself, starting with the season pages. I've gotten like 5 responses (only 1 real oppose). So, I'm going to give it another week or so, or until I can finish the first season in my sandbox. Then I'm redirecting all on the bases that there was only 1 clear objection to the merge. So far, I've had to actual objections to (in the least) the new format I designed for the season pages. Here's to one day not having to worry about over eager editors that create an article for the slightest thing.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

D'oh!

Sorry about that – I feel like a right idiot now. However, in that instance it may have been better to use generic instead of general. Ashnard _Talk 18:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Nope, they're pretty much synonyms. Generic doesn't necessarily mean just "the same" and it isn't the difference that you pointed on my talk page. Just to let you know. Ashnard _Talk 18:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Game guide information

You still are not persuading me of anything on my talk page discussion. So, I've moved our discussion to the article's talk page (please reply further there if you have anything new to add) and will refrain from restoring or editing the article until I see what others have to say as well. Best, --24.154.173.243 18:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I checked out the Final Fantasy X article and see that they have a separate article on list of characters. Thus, if you would like to create a separate list of OCean Hunter characters article, I'd be happy to help flesh it in. Best, --24.154.173.243 00:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

list of scrubs episodes

i disagree with your idea of redirecting these eps, therefore i propose that out of your list of list article to work through, you leave this one till last, allowing me time to improve them, as i have already done improvements of season 1--Jac16888 21:57, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

firstly, i have done more than just cleanup. if you actually look, you will see that every s1 ep contains an ep synopsis, guest stars, featured music, and external links (not all done by me)

second of all, you keep talking about sources. the source is the episode itself. if you watched it you would see the info is correct. thirdly, i have not finished with them yet. i propose a mutual compromise, and you just yet again refuse to accept another persons views, basing your arguments on policies that don't actually support your views. i intend to do my best to improve the scrubs articles, as i have been doing for some time and suggest that you find a subject that you are knowledgeable about, and try and improve it, rather than simply going around undoing other peoples hard work. no doubt you will not listen to this and simply keep doing your redirects, but i no longer care, as regardless of your opinion, i will not allow scrubs episodes articles to fall into oblivion--Jac16888 22:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Guidelines

You're the only one who is believing they fail guidelines. Perhaps you should read the above and the guidelines themselves. Oh, and one could believe you're disrupting Wikipedia to make a point the way you edit. Matthew 02:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Who agrees with you? Nobody. Frankly I feel sorry for you. Oh, and I consider notability inherited (and FYI: not interested in reading essays). Matthew 02:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with him. Want me to find more people? -- Ned Scott 02:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Ahem

I highly disagree with your so-called decision to merge everything into one big ugly article. I'm sorry, but no.

But you're going to do it anyways, because you are lucky I am not intelligent enough to defend the article. I can only fight and revert and readd, and you and your people will ban me for it as unjustly as can be.

That is why I intend to set up a wiki of Power Instinct's own eventually to protect it from you people, but whatever.

Sorry if I sound like such a jerk and a stubborn mule, but Wikipedia is just turning into a horrible place for extensive information on such subjects these days. It's terrible. Just terrible. --Ralf Loire (Annoy) 03:09, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Have I read that right? You're... backing down?

I wasn't expecting that. But some admin or something's gonna do it anyway. I'll have to make backup copies for such an emergency...

But what did you mean "if need be, you'll copy the articles yourself?" I just want to know the specifics. --Ralf Loire (Annoy) 03:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Only if by "moving" you mean moving them to the Shoryuken Wiki or whatever.

On the record, as far as making a wiki for it of it's own, I'm not the best at web programming or something, so, really, setting up a wiki... that's gonna be hard.

But I'll have no choice but to deal with it if it means providing extensive info on the characters and all. Power Instinct is a VERY looked down upon and cast-away game. It's only fair that people get the lowdown on it and see it as more than just some "Street Fighter 'clone' ", but that is just me and my jerkwad opinion, so, bear with me on my saying that. --Ralf Loire (Annoy) 03:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright then. If I can find a suitable place for them where they won't come into any serious changes, then I will let you do as you like to the articles. Fair's fair.

Request it by Wikia, huh. I'll see what I can do. --Ralf Loire (Annoy) 03:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, I forgot to add.

That is if I DO find a suitable place. Wikia seems to want wikis on things that will spread all over people's interests. I say, fuck them. Power Instinct is often forgotten. I will NOT let that happen.

I will let you know if I do so you may do whatever you like. But until then, you must not touch them. These things take time.

Also, why is this not happening to the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat articles? And all the others the same? As such, go do something about them, if you want to enforce this policy so badly. If I can't get a site for these articles, then you're going to have to do something to convince the same should apply to everything else. This is not a dare, just that I won't allow it unless everyone else does.

I also noticed that Shoryuken Wiki is not the suitable place for them. That place is a strategy wiki, not an info wiki. My advice is that you please make sure you examine a wiki's contents more closely next time before you give links to them. Otherwise you make yourself look foolish. =P --Ralf Loire (Annoy) 04:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Your behaviour

TTN, you need to back off and rethink your approach to episode articles. Your attitude is extremely confrontational, and is only going to create massive divisions within the Wiki community. You have no right to single-handedly march in and destroy work like this. Please reconsider your actions before this goes too far. --Ckatz^chat_spy 04:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Removing an episode which actually has sources because you think they are "pathetic" is the wrong way to go about things. People are currently working on these articles. Many people who work on TV articles are teenagers, and many, especially in the US, have finals coming up and don't have as much time to work on these right now as they'd like. I'm studying for my finals this week so I'm on very little and I don't have time to go through all the episode pages I edit and improve them. Instead of waging war against TV articles you don't see fit to have pages, why not work on them so that they pass what ever you believe they failed on the guidelines. Why not just tag these articles with appropriate clean-up tags. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 01:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Those aren't sources; they're trivial reviews (two don't even work). If the article had real sources, it would be different. Nobody is working on it that well. In the month since I last viewed it, it has gained a trivia section and unreferenced reception material. Nobody is ever going to improve them, and they cannot be improved. I will never entertain this notion that more than a thousand episode articles will ever need coverage here. That certainly isn't one of them. Editing them and placing tags can only work if they can be improved. TTN 01:25, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Wait one second, here. I added a source for one of the episodes I revived, and you deleted it anyway!! ---- DanTD 01:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you link it? If it was a legitimate source, I apologize, but it may have just been a trivial one. TTN 01:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It was the agency that actually gave the show the award that I mentioned, so yes it was a legitmate source. ---- DanTD 01:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you give a link to the episode? TTN 01:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Here(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A_Goat%27s_Tale&oldid=135433182), and some of the other episodes that were revived had links and further details too. ---- DanTD 02:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

You have a link to one single award, nothing else. Add that to a general reception section for the actual series. An award on its own is not enough to give the articles content. It would only work along with real content. TTN 02:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe winning an award makes the episode notable. If it won an award there must be sources out there. Article just needs to be fixed up. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It may be notable in a way, but it still fails for not having the needed content. Nothing shows that development or other reception sources can be found. The award doesn't justify a full article. A reception section in the main article can cover things like that. TTN 02:49, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It's people like you who piss off the whole wiki community by deleting things as you see fit. What benefit is it to you to delete TV show articles? None. Then the people who have a use for those articles no longer are able to access them. So how bout you retype all the Entourage synopsises and all the music was on the show. You dipshit.

Don't let them keep ya down, TNN. You're doing a great job! -- Ned Scott 06:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Mario character discussion

As a note, I've created this for a discussion about the merges (as I didn't see any very active ones, except for Petey Piranha): Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games#Mario_character_merges. Feel free to comment there. RobJ1981 06:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

ANI

You may wish to respond to this ANI post. --Fredrick day 08:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

AN/I report filed with regards to episode deletion

TTN: I'm sorry to say that I have found it necessary to file a complaint about your actions on the AN/I board. As I mentioned earlier, your methodology in achieving your goal is divisive and disruptive. I really hope that you find it within yourself to reconsider the manner in which you are proceeding, before things go too far. Thank you. --Ckatz^chat_spy 08:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)