Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PlaneShift (computer game)

PlaneShift (computer game)

PlaneShift (computer game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Article contains no establishment of notability for inclusion in Wikipedia. A quick google search showed no reliable sources, reviews, mentions, awards from any reputable sources. Article exists merely on primary sources alone and is written like an advertisement SpigotMap 11:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: I believe it is more notable than you think. Can't say for sure, but i heard of it numerous times eventhough i am not interested in a game like that. Also, i remember it, as it used to be the most seeded, and stil is one of the most seeded torrents on miniNova. Quick look on google didn't bring up many too reliable sources either, but the coverage still seems to be pretty wide. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 12:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable freeware game not even out of "pre alpha". Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:02, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment As far as I can tell, the game itself is in beta, not pre-alpha. There seems to be a difference in status between PlaneShift-the-game and PlaneShift-the-engine, the latter of which is on SourceForge and is listed as pre-alpha. Tuxide 20:47, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete: No notability, is only free in cost, and only currently. Proprietary game built upon open source engine without a production release (ever). This game has been in-development for 6years. If the game was more open, as in the licensing for the game, I might object because it would stand out. Currently, it just appears to be be another slow-development/vaporware piece of proprietary junk - thus the lack of media coverage. EvanCarroll 16:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Question to EvanCarroll If you claim it's non-notable and unverifiable, then how do you know so damn much about it? This sounds like a WP:COI here. Tuxide 21:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep: Every game with a fans base has a page on wikipedia in which they explain how the game works and give detail on setting, races, monsters, etc... Why PlaneShift shouldn't ? The PlaneShift page seems setup like all the other pages I see of other games, those do not contain more notable sources than PlaneShift. Also this means you want to have in the wikipedia only the very known, mass-driving titles? It's an encyclopedia made by people for the people, deleting knowledge is the worst you can do on a free enyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.17.172.185 (talk) 19:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Please see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS for the answer. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
• I just removed the follwoing from the article page, which I think was probably intended for here:

I can't understand why someone here wants to say PlaneShift do not exist. Here are some notable sources on the existance of PlaneShift:

http://linux.about.com/od/softgame/fr/fr_PlaneShift.htm

http://www.jeuvinux.net/article-51.html

http://news.mmosite.com/interview/content/2007-10-07/20071007223114402,1.shtml

http://www.psde.de/foren/offizielles/ank_ndigungen_und_neuigkeiten/interview_bersetzung

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/planeshift/review.html

and stats on characters and accounts registered per hour:

http://laanx.fragnetics.com/charsweek.png

Artw 20:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep: Nontrivial coverage from reliable sources including about.com, GameSpot, etc. Comments like "piece of proprietary junk" and "not even out of 'pre-alpha'" are of dubious relevance to an AfD discussion (although I don't disagree). The coverage exists, and PlaneShift does seem to be at least as popular and widely discussed as Castle Marrach or Medievia. <eleland/talkedits> 22:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
• Correction: coverage appears to be trivial or nonreliable. No vote. <eleland/talkedits> 22:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment::Please point out which sources provide notability. All of them look to be fan reviews to me. The one from gamespot is not a review, it's fan comments. SpigotMap 22:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment [1] looks like a recent interview (this very month) that MMOsite.com gave to the PlaneShift director. Most of the others I can't even read because they're not English. Tuxide 23:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment MMOsite.com does not appear to be a reliable source. In fact, I'd wager that no site using red text on a black background is reliable. <eleland/talkedits> 00:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment ...what? Tuxide 00:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
        • Well, maybe it's an artifact of the site being partially blocked by my work's firewall. But I'm seeing a black background with dark blue link texts which turn red when you click them. Awful! <eleland/talkedits> 17:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
          • Your CSS isn't loading. I only get that when I turn CSS off. Try changing your browser's default background color to white or something so you can see the text. Tuxide 21:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Going with WP:RUBBISH here, and I agree with Twsx that the coverage seems to be pretty wide. If all you want to do is find reliable sources, then AFD is not the place for this. Tuxide 03:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep (and improve article): I am not playing this type of game, but I followed the development of Crystal Space for several years. IMHO this is one of the most important open source/free software projects in this category (and the most important project in Crystal Space). When judging the status of the game ("alpha", "beta" etc.) one should keep in mind that free software tends to have much lower release numbers and a beta version might be more stable and playable than comparable proprietary software releases which are declared stable. Judging from the development progress I have seen in the last years I certainly do not agree with statements like "it just appears to be be another slow-development/vaporware piece of proprietary junk" (by the way: why proprietary? from the webpage: "All source code of the engine is Open Source and under GPL."). -- mkrohn 23:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Then mkrohn you have no idea what you're talking about because nothing about the game is free! The engine it is built on is free and that does less good, and makes the game less open than Simcity 2000 which had a map builder. The game is not open source. Even on their own license they state that verbatim. In fact giving back to the "game" means your property (ruleset/art/dialog) will have its ownership transfered entirely to "Atomic Blue" and you *can not* even retain a copy for your own use. This is my biggest problem with this nonsense project. In other words, if you draw up a gnome and write the dialog for it you can not give a copy to Atomic Blue, and your best friend. You can not modify or redistribute your own work. You can not fork the game. You have no options outside of what Atomic Blue explicitly permits you to do, because the license is authoritarian. EvanCarroll 16:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Question to EvanCarroll If you claim it's non-notable, then how do you know so damn much about it? This sounds like a WP:COI here. Moved my comment to your post above. Tuxide 21:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    • "you have no idea what you're talking about because nothing about the game is free! [...] The game is not open source." - the game engine certainly is open source (just browse their csv, e.g.: [2]). AFAIK there is even a project underway to use free graphics etc. instead of their proprietary stuff. -- mkrohn 21:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    • So f***ing what? Simcity 3000 can run on Linux under wine. Does that make Simcity 3000 open source? I'll grant a small but crucial element to the game, the client/server codebase is open source. The Quake 3 engine is also open source, but the *game* is not, and will never be. A new open game created on this engine might be more noteworthy but as it stands now Planeshift is not. You must see this difference to understand the evil behind this company, you're inability to distinguish the difference between Planeshift and the client/server codebase is saddening. discussion n this matter. This is why I argue so vehemently, however to submit to wikipedia guidelines, the problem here is notability. Nothing about the "game" is notable other than the fact it has a brochure on wikipedia. EvanCarroll 03:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Slashdot has two stories related to planeshift: Free 3D MMORPG Planeshift Ported To Mac OS X, Planeshift Enters Open Testing —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco Krohn (talk • contribs) 00:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Tuxide 23:55, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - Not notable. The links provided above are not from reliable sources, or are trivial coverage (in Gamespot's case). Only the MMOSite link has some merit, but a single source is not enough, especially if the coverage is not directly related to the article subject. User:Krator (t c) 00:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Explain how [3] is not directly related to the article subject please. Tuxide 00:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
    • It's directly related, but even if mmosite.com proves to be a reliable source, about which there is some doubt, more than one such reliable source is needed. Miremare 01:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
      • My question is more on notability: If sources like these can be found, whether notability can be established. Another thing is that in the gaming industry, you don't ever see open source projects being stuck in the same boat as commercial games such as Flyff, Silkroad Online, Ragnarok Online 2, etc. but for some reason PlaneShift is the odd one out. Hence this is why I am sticking with WP:RUBBISH. Within good faith I do believe PlaneShift is notable—it is clearly known outside of just a narrow interest group—and reliable sources just need to be found. I can go out and find reliable sources if I really wanted to, but real life is keeping me from doing so right now. Tuxide 03:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
        • An interview with a man about his work does not make the work notable. Furthermore, MMOSite's editorial standard is questionable. User:Krator (t c) 10:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
          • I am interested in multiple sources; obviously, one is not enough. Also, I just realized that there is nothing in WP:RS saying that a source has to be in English for it to be reliable. Tuxide 22:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete gamespot looked promising until their coverage proved to be entirely player reviews. Other than that, just fansites and gameguides. Not notable. Miremare 01:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: I think there are several sources that indicate that the game is notable (besides that googling for "planeshift game" gives >470,000 hits):
  • http://news.mmosite.com/interview/content/2007-10-07/20071007223114402,1.shtml
  • http://www.chip.de/downloads/c1_downloads_20094547.html (source: CHIP (magazine))
  • Free 3D MMORPG Planeshift Ported To Mac OS X, Planeshift Enters Open Testing (soure: Slashdot

I concede that Verifiability is an issue but this should not lead to the deletion of the article ... -- mkrohn 10:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)