User talk:98.194.124.102

Asmahan and Farid al-Atrash

Hello, I will answer some of the questions.

I am using the administrator tools to block people. In this case I thought it was fairer to give a warning rather than block immediately. I am not so concerned as to the exact content in the disputed content. But trying to get the articles into a stable state. This may mean there has to be a bigger input from more people, and some sort of compromise on wording. I must agree that it makes more sense to call Farid al-Atrash Egyptian! (Was any of this called UAR?) On the Golan Heights I was requesting wording that did not upset people but covers the truth. If necessary we can have attributed statements, reflecting what important people say on the matter. This means it is not Wikipedia saying that It is an XYZ territory, but rather Israel claims ....... Syria claims ..... Recognition of .... by ..... Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I suspect that Hertz1888 worked in regards to Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol and looks for vandalism. He reports vandals, which I then check out. He also would notice edit wars. You too could look at Special:RecentChanges. If you registered with a username you could have a watch list, and then you could observe what happens to a list of documents of interest to you. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Hello Graeme, thank you for your reply. You say that you use administrator tools to block people, but are you an administrator? What other functions and authorities do you have besides blocking people?

I resorted to repeated editing because I am not well versed with the tools with which to contact people to explain my point; I am slowly learning.

I am not sure what you mean by getting the articles into a "stable state", if the nature of Wikipedia is such that it is continuously dynamic. I think that you should be concerned that the facts are correct, if not all other content.

Thank you for seeing the facts on Farid and Asmahan Al-Atrash, but how do we get the facts on the page and make them stay there? As for the UAR (United Arab Republic), it was the official name of Egypt and Syria during their short-lived union (~1959-1961). It has nothing to do with the subject at hand because the Atrashes emigrated to Egypt in the early 1920s.

On the Golan Heights, the truth is that they fall within the International borders of Syria and have been occupied by Israel since 1967. I have posted, for you convenience, links from the websites of the United Nations and the CIA to show this truth. Wikipedia is becoming widely referenced and quoted world-wide, and for it to present wrong statements that dilute, if not distort, the truth is a great dis-service to History and the rights of peoples who may not be as astute with Wikipedia:Recent changes patrol as Hertz & Co are. If you are an adminstrator on Wikipedia, then you have a special moral obligation to see that only the truth, backed by facts, is posted on those pages.

Thanks again. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 07:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC))

Xeno

Dear Xeno:

It is really regrettable that you block my account, in complicity with the request of User Supreme Deliciousness, without the merit of any investigation and without contacting me first to know the facts.

I am asking that the block placed on my IP be lifted immediately because:

1. I have not exceeded 3 reverts per day on the pages in reference. I do understand the the 3-edit rule and I am not 3-editting any pages for edit warring purposes at all. As per my count, I have not exceeded 3 edits per day on any page. I was editing Hala Gorani, found new evidence and went back to incorporate it to accurately match the reference and if that took 3 edits, then so be it. The same applies to Omar Sharif. I almost built Stephan Rosti, it was only a mere couple of sentences copied almost verbatim from imdb before I built it, and if that took me a lot of research and 3 edits to do, then so be it. I regret that you did not research the facts before you placed the block on my IP!

2. Following your dispute resolution procedure, I have requested third-party ruling on the FIRST dispute with User Supreme Deliciousness. I am reiterating my request for this third-party ruling now. Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests/Archive_53#Third-Party_Ruling_Requested. So far this request has not been granted. Administrator Graeme Bartlett has requested that both users provide evidence to support their edits, which I have fullfilled, and User Supreme Deliciousness has so far failed to do. Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Farid_al-Atrash#Farid_and_Asmahan_were_Egyptian. Yet third-party ruling has not been administered.

3. In compliance with your dispute resolution procedure, I have fulfilled Administrator Graeme Bartlett's request to provide evidence to support my statements on Farid al-Atrash (the subject of the FIRST dispute with User Supreme Deliciousness) and so far User Supreme Deliciousness has failed to do the same, simply because their claims are false on this article as they are on many other articles. Yet, no ruling has been administered on this matter.

User Supreme Deliciousness's claims are biased and arguably racist. 'As other users have described User Supreme Deliciousness:

"I hope you are banned from Wikipedia soon for your comments on this and many other pages. You are a disgrace to Wikipedia (if not the human race)."--Gilabrand (talk) 09:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC). Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Za%27atar#Israeli_culture_theft

and

"Please understand that this is an encyclopedia. Statements must be supported by verifiable sources, opinion is not enough. Edits that are aggressive, highly political attacks on particular ethnic and national groups are not welcome here. And please try to read up on a topic before you edit. Your assertion that is is somehow illegitimate for a nation to adopt a foodstuff Za'atar is absurd. And your assertion that the Druze are not Arabs because they are not genetically Arab is not merely ridiculous, it is borderiline racism. Historicist (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)Historicist (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)". Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness#Settle_down

The truth of the matter is that User Supreme Deliciousness is the one who deserves to be permanently banned, not just blocked, for the following reasons:

1. User Supreme Deliciousness has been edit warring with numerous editors, and most lately myself. Please see comments by other users about User Supreme Deliciousness at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Za%27atar#Israeli_culture_theft, among many many other pages including User Supreme Deliciousness's own user talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness#Settle_down, where User Supreme Deliciousness is proving to be unfit for Wikipedia.

2. User Supreme Deliciousness has previously taken his "crying wolf" complaints to two other administrators who have responded by telling User Supreme Deliciousness that they were practicing the same behavior of which they were complaining. Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett#Sockpuppet_warning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett#Need_help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett#violation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hertz1888#Socks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hertz1888/Archive_3#are_you_authority_here.3F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness#3rr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness#Article_editing

3. User Supreme Deliciousness has gone around using my contributions page, undoing every change that I had made to every page on Wikipedia, even on pages where they had previously shown no interest, and inviting other users to intensify the edit wars against me on all of those pages. Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Hertz1888/Archive_3#Help_me.21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:George/Archive_1#Help_me.21

4. Please also note User Supreme Deliciousness's insulting "troll" and "lies" comments directed at me at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett#Need_help.

I would appreciate your prompt response to this message.

Kind Regards,

User: 98.194.124.102"

• You did remove the same material 4 times in a 24 period at the Hala page. However, if you agree not to edit war further and to use proper dispute resolution methods in future, I would be willing to lift the block. I re-iterate my urging to register an account. Note I also did caution Supreme Deliciousness on 3RR as well. –xeno^talk 21:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Xeno, I agree to abide by the rules of WP for as long as I get familiarized with them; I am slowly learning them. Please lift my block.

I have counted again my edits on Hala Gorani, 2 edits on 16 June and 3 edits on 15 June (2 of which consecutively so they count as 1 only). Please explain your count. I even corrected myself when I found a source in support of the opponent.

Having said that, I ask that you please review the practices of the complainer, User Supreme Deliciousness. SD's edit warring, not just with me but with numerous others, SD's arguably racist comments as other users have asserted, SD's name calling, e.g., troll, lies, etc., and SD's emotional involvement with their ethnic origin that goes beyond any degree of tolerance or courtesy are not acceptable. I also ask for third-party ruling on the article of FIRST dispute with SD: Farid al-Atrash.

Please be fair and objective.

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC))

• Yes, it's a 24 hour period though. While at midnight your coach may turn into a pumpkin, that doesn't mean the edit-war clock resets ;p –xeno^talk 22:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to defend myself to the things User 98.194.124.102 is saying above

User: 98.194.124.102, is lying that he has not reverted articles 3 times, he has.

He have removed my sourced edits and replaced them with either no sourced info or one time he linked to arabic wikipedia, as if this was a source. This is not the way you edit articles, you can not take away my sourced information and replace them with your own made up texts.

The Stephan Rosti article was changed from my sourced reference saying he is Italian to user:98.194.124.102 version as it is now saying he is egyptian-italian and austrian, without any source.

Same thing at the Omar Sharif article, I had sourced reference showing his parents are Syrians, user:98.194.124.102 deleted it and added this: "Contrary to many websites that declare Omar Sharif of Greek, Lebanese, Syrian, or Palestinian birth or origin, Sharif was born in Egypt to Catholic Egyptian citizens." ..... what is this? ...and of course as always with user:98.194.124.102 there is no source.

and my response to this "your assertion that the Druze are not Arabs because they are not genetically Arab is not merely ridiculous, it is borderiline racism. Historicist" , first of all I provided a documented source showing they are genetically not Arabs, This: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf , this is a scientific study. There is nothing racist about that, it was a source where Israelis had tested the Y chromosome of druze males: It turned out they were from eastern Asian groups. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:35, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

SD, your own statements show who is lying. I have stated that I have made 3 edits (e.g., on Hala Gorani), not more. Two consecutive edits count as one, as per WP rules.

The Stephan Rosti bio on imdb is inaccurate as are many on there. The account on Arabic WP is much more accurate and can be used as a source. His father was indeed Austrian; I have seen his lifestory documentary in Egyptian media.

Please do a search on Omar Sharif and you will find very varying claims that he's of birth or origin as follows:

Greek: http://books.google.com/books?id=kjUHZrPBPPYC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=%22omar+sharif%22+%22greek-born%22&source=bl&ots=bJ661viyey&sig=KkmHXYeJ9KjZLXSA2_Q-84r6rPQ&hl=en&ei=tRg4StzVOIecsgOEmJT-Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Palestinian: http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Omar_Sharif

Lebanese: http://www.starpulse.com/Actors/Sharif,_Omar/, http://movies.msn.com/celebrities/celebrity-biography/omar-sharif.1/, http://movies.nytimes.com/person/64847/Omar-Sharif, and http://www.facebook.com/pages/Omar-Sharif/10542471812?v=info&viewas=0

British: http://www.movieretriever.com/castandcredits/9521/Omar-Sharif

Egyptian: most importantly, Omar Sharif's own autobiography, The Eternmal Male, http://www.biography.com/articles/Omar-Sharif-9480603. It is still in print and I have a copy of it. On almost every page, Omar Sharif states that he is Egyptian at least once, and makes no lineal association with any other country. See also: http://looklex.com/e.o/o_sharif.htm, http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=8335, http://www.filmreference.com/Actors-and-Actresses-Sc-St/Sharif-Omar.html, http://www.celebwelove.com/Omar_Sharif/biography.html, http://www.nndb.com/people/627/000023558/, http://omar_sharif.justsuperstar.com/bio/, etc.

On the subject of Soad Hosny, and since you regularly quote imdb, see the following: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0396071/bio. The site says that both of Soad's parents were Egyptian. I do, however, know that the father only had distant Syrian roots, and the mother was Egyptian. So, for you to state Soad was of Syrian descent is grossly inaccurate. That description would apply to Farid and Asmahan al-Atrash, not Soad Hosny. Soad Hosny was 100% Egyptian because that was her chosen identity, just as Haifa Wahbe is 100% Lebanese even though her mother is Egyptian. Lebanese is Haifa's chosen identity.

The fact of the matter is that a person's identity is determined most importantly by their belonging and choice of association / citizenship to a certain country. In all the cases you have argued, you have only brought forward or made up evidence of bloodlines and DNA. For example, on the subject of Druze Arabs, you do not seem to have familiarized yourself with the definition of an Arab. It certainly has very little to do with DNA. The DNA of an Iraqi is probably very distant from that of a Mauritani, yet they are both Arabs. It is a matter of identity first and foremost, then come citizenship, language, cultural, and political association, etc. To label people solely on the basis of their DNA and bloodlines, as you seem to use as basis for the majority of your arguments on Wikipedia, is arguably RACIST. It is quite shameful.

What I care about is the truth and accuracy in reporting.

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 01:16, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

If any source provided by me is inaccurate you have to provide a different source showing otherwise. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

A tip also for you, Facebook and arabic wikipedia are no acceptable sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability "For that reason self-published media, whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, Internet forum postings, tweets etc., are largely not acceptable." --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

just as inaccurate and unacceptable are websites such as forgottensyrians and english wikipedia with biased editors like yourself. i do not consider imdb to be reliable, but you do. these are amateurish and unreviewed sources. most of the websites copy one from the other without research or validation. printed, peer- or publisher-reviewed sources are always more reliable. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 00:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

IMDB is not a reliable source, neither is en or Arabic Wikipedia, although they may be considered unreliable sources! To get the outstanding WP:FA certification, you have to find the best source possible. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

on the omar sharif article

The reference you removed was a quote from the text in the link next to it: http://onefineart.com/en/artists/omar-sharif/

Thats the text: (Lebanese Imprints on the Twentieth Century, Volume I, Asma Freiha and Viviane Ghanem, 2006) --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

• FYI an ANI thread has been initiated on this: Wikipedia:ANI#deletion of sourced info -xeno^talk 19:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

User Supreme Deliciousness had, earlier today, deleted my own sourced information, based on Omar Sharif's own autobigraphy, The Eternal Male, and replaced it with unreliable websites and an obscure book without proper referencing. SD used that obscure book to argue that Omar Sharif "may have been born in Greece". In the original source that SD had deleted, The Eternal Male, on page 39, Omar Sharif states that he was born in Alexandria, Egypt.

I do not have to photocopy the pages of the book for SD's viewing. The Amazon link shows the book's proper referencing information including title, authors, ISBN, etc. It is up to SD to purchase the book and read it.

SD used the same reference, the obscure book, to destroy also earlier today another article I had spent hours building, Stephan Rosti, to prove that he was Hungarian. Previously, SD had used IMDB to prove that Stephan Rosti was Italian.! SD has done the same with the Soad Hosny article. SD is clearly going around Wikipedia making changes against everyone Egyptian.

This arguably racist and vandalizing behavior needs to be brought to an end.

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 19:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

Discuss changes on Omar Sharif

Please discuss changes on the article's talk page first. Sancho 19:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Sancho:

I had already made a strong case for my arguments on the article's talk page, but to no avail. User SD jumps around making all sorts of complaints against behavior that they personally pursue. Please monitor this user's contributions all around and see other editors' remarks in reference to SD's contributions:

"I hope you are banned from Wikipedia soon for your comments on this and many other pages. You are a disgrace to Wikipedia (if not the human race)."--Gilabrand (talk) 09:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC). Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Za%27atar#Israeli_culture_theft

and

"Please understand that this is an encyclopedia. Statements must be supported by verifiable sources, opinion is not enough. Edits that are aggressive, highly political attacks on particular ethnic and national groups are not welcome here. And please try to read up on a topic before you edit. Your assertion that is is somehow illegitimate for a nation to adopt a foodstuff Za'atar is absurd. And your assertion that the Druze are not Arabs because they are not genetically Arab is not merely ridiculous, it is borderiline racism. Historicist (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)Historicist (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2009 (UTC)". Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Supreme_Deliciousness#Settle_down

and

The fact of the matter is that a person's identity is determined most importantly by their belonging and choice of association / citizenship to a certain country. In all the cases you have argued, you have only brought forward or made up evidence of bloodlines and DNA. For example, on the subject of Druze Arabs, you do not seem to have familiarized yourself with the definition of an Arab. It certainly has very little to do with DNA. The DNA of an Iraqi is probably very distant from that of a Mauritani, yet they are both Arabs. It is a matter of identity first and foremost, then come citizenship, language, cultural, and political association, etc. To label people solely on the basis of their DNA and bloodlines, as you seem to use as basis for the majority of your arguments on Wikipedia, is arguably RACIST. It is quite shameful.

(98.194.124.102 (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

Noted. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 19:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

98.194.124.102, also, in order to proceed in a way that is useful and facilitates discussion, you'll need to stop echoing previous criticisms that are irrelevant to actual article content. Let's think about the present, not about previous actions at this point. Sancho 20:03, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Sancho, thank you for the calm demeanor, however, the above echoed statements show that User SD has a long history of racially based conflicts with many other editors, and I am only his most recent opponent. I have no issues or conflicts with any other editors. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 20:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC))

Discuss changes on Stephan Rosti

Please discuss changes on the article's talk page first. Discusson moved there. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 08:11, 20 June 2009 (UTC))

• Sancho: since you criticized my edit summaries, pls resolve this: SD has continuously referred to me as "the Egyptian troll" and has accused me of "lying" and "sockpuppeting", see for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Graeme_Bartlett/archive_6#Need_help, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:98.194.124.102#I_would_like_to_defend_myself_to_the_things_User_98.194.124.102_is_saying_above. (98.194.124.102 (talk) 02:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC))

June 2009

Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Stephan Rosti, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. In this edit you removed two references and the sentences they supported without discussion or introduction of references that supported the changes you made. This can lead to edit warring and is not helpful in the efforts to improve this encyclopedia. Sancho 21:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

If this is a shared IP address, and you didn't make the edit, consider creating an account for yourself so you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

Sancho: I made a very detailed argument for the changes that I made, and invited reposnse from you and others on the Talk page of Stephan Rosti, 3 days ago. There has been no challenge to my argument since then. The information that you placed on the article page now is inaccurate and misleading, and the "Hungarian" source has been proven unworthy. Please make a case for the accuracy of the references used, on the Talk page of the article. Thanks. --98.194.124.102 (talk) 21:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

There's only need to reply to me in one location, as you did on my talk page. I've replied there, and had already replied on the article's talk page. Sancho 22:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not know which pages you check on a regular basis... do you get notified that I posted a message to you somewhere? That was the reason for my multiple postings. I had directed you and SD to the Talk page of Stephan Rosti 3 days earlier (please see section above). No one replied. --98.194.124.102 (talk) 22:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I follow any discussions that I've been in. So, if I post somewhere and you reply there, I'll see it. Also, every user gets notified if their own talk page is posted to.

Regarding the discussion on the talk page, I just thought you copy and pasted the discussion from here to there. On second look, I see you did add something, but it was a biography that you put together without providing references, and a request that I ask the author of an article external to wikipedia for his references. Neither of those allows your removal of a sentence that had a source supporting it without providing a source of your own. It also wasn't clear that that discussion on the talk page was at all linked to your most recent change you made to the article (the one I reverted) since you didn't say anything in your edit summary. Sancho 22:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)