Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 October 24

24 October 2012

Category:Wikipedians who are not a Wikipedian

Category:Wikipedians who are not a Wikipedian (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

The discussion was overwhelmingly tending to keep -- and in jumps an admin who thinks his views count for more than those of the rest of the community. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I corrected his error. He probably didn't look at the page history, and didn't know that it was the topic of a community discussion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:46, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

You didn't quite - it needs an admin to extract and restore the category description. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:50, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

For ease, here was my deletion rationale:

speedily deleted under [[WP:CSD G10|WP:CSD G10]] "attack/disparage" (with a bit of[[WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND|WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND]] thrown in) I've no involvement in the current Malleus Fatuorum/Arbcom dispute. I can see many good people were outraged by stupid JClemens "not a Wikipedian" remark. But creating categories to attack an editor for a remark he made isn't how we do things. We AREWikipedians that means we discuss things together, and we use proper mature methods to do this. We don't tar and feather people (and I think that exactly the reason people rightly objected to JClemens' remark). We don't engage in puerile [[WP:BATTLEGROUND|battle ground tactics]] - we don't monumentalise the folly of others. Where would it end? Do we end up with "Category:Wikipedians who are fuckers" in protest at things Malleus has said? Please, step back and cool down everyone. When we have a dispute, and real Wikipedians try to use discussion and dispute resolution methods to, well, like "resolve" the dispute, not stunts and protests to ramp it up. Take this to deletion review if you must, but ask yourself how you are helping Wikipedia. Your valid point/protest has now been made."

The tagline to the category at the time of deletion was "In protest, referencing a comment by an ArbCom member"

The "discussion" was simply part of the same battleground, and not based on policy. Anyway, if DRV thinks I've done the wrong thing, then I give up.--Scott Mac 09:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• Overturn. The Speedy Deletion was out-of-process for two reasons:
  1. The category had already been nominated for CSD:G10 and declined by User:LadyofShalott before it was taken to CfD.
  2. Speedy deletion is only for obviously uncontroversial cases, and this is clearly not one of them.

The deleting admin's reasoning was honorable, but his action was technically incorrect. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:48, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Do we now do "technically incorrect" > honorable and useful? Anyway, I don't think it was technically incorrect. But if you think undeletion helps here, whatever. --Scott Mac 09:52, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

"Honorable and useful" is not a valid Speedy Deletion reason. Further, your responses indicate you are not acting as a disinterested admin here, and are effectively supervoting. As I said, I believe your actions were honorable, just incorrect, and I really think you should stop badgering now and just leave DRV to do its job. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• Overturn - per Boing!'s points - Sitush (talk) 09:51, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Overturn - per the technically correct points made by Boing! (Also, in comment, I note that the cat was deleted on the grounds that it represented the actions of Wikipedians who are not "real Wikipedians", thus proving the usefulness and validity of the category in the first place.) Keristrasza (talk) 10:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Ignore all rules, keep it deleted and just stop. Go back to working on the encyclopedia, instead of worrying about this category created so Wikipedia has another martyr that divides the community on a hot button issue. What is the point in it being re-created? Potential collaboration of spiteful editors? You also do realize categories still work whether they are blue or red, right? So, instead of being adults and moving past what Jclemens said (despite how wrong you may think it was), we are going to resort to petty name-calling, creating categories for the sole purpose of harping on his comments, have Wikipedia disrupted first through categories for deletion, and now deletion review, only to be brought back to CFD later? Just stop, let it die, for the sake of the time users are going to be wasting on this stupidity. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 10:39, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

  Red and blue categories don't work the same - you can't have a category description if the category itself doesn't exist. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 12:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• Overturn Close by administrative fiat against overwhelming consensus to keep. Joefromrandb (talk) 10:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Overturn - per Boing!'s points. Send it back to CfD if then so inclined and let the discussion run to its end. --Beetstra (public) (Dirk Beetstra^{T C} on public computers) 10:46, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Overturn - Mostly per Boing, with a note that the "attack"-iness of the category has been disputed by numerous editors at the CFD. As Boing said, clearly not uncontroversial. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:04, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Overturn - Per Boing and overwhelming consensus to keep. --Epipelagic (talk) 11:19, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
• Overturn - Incredible assumption of bad faith when ignoring the consensus. No where is Jclemens listed, nor in any way does this category require someone have an opinion of him in order to join, so the deletion rationale is inherently flawed. There is no "attack" in someone feeling disenfranchised even while they continue to participate, and this category doesn't differentiate the reason for the disenfranchisement. Too much assumption. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
  • As a matter of correcting fact, the category description at the time of deletion was "In protest, referencing a comment by an ArbCom member". Assume what you will from that.--Scott Mac 12:14, 24 October 2012 (UTC)