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<p style="background: #F5F5F5; float:right; ">
==Thai script==
<em><br />
Hi there. I see you made the Thai script on several articles in a bigger font. I also have problems to recognize the characters in their normal height, but that's probably just because I am a very beginner with thai language, Thai webpages don't use such a big font. And using a different height makes the page look awful from a typographic point of view - the text jumps in the line, as well as the vertical space between the line changes. Or maybe it's just a font issue which makes Thai show up so small in your browser - in the editing mode they are way too small for me as well, but in the rendered version they show up fine. For the provinces it'd be possible to modify the infobox to be more like the country infobox, and add a bigger thai name that way, but inside the text I think we should avoid it. [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 18:36, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
<div clear=all; style="float:right; font-size: 120%; display:inline; margin: 0; font-family: Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif; letter-spacing: 0.2em; font-weight: bold; text-align: right; list-style-type: none; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:">
:I answered on my talk - only the screenshots aren't online yet, I will do that tomorrow. [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 22:35, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
[[User talk:Hardouin/Archive|<span style="color:black">Archive</span>]]<br>
</div>
<br clear=all>


__TOC__
== French Departments ==


Hello. I am sorry, but not only do I live in France, but I quintuple checked to make sure my edit was correct.

There are, in metropolitan France, 95 departments. The licence plates in metropolitan France go from 01 to 95. Departments 91 to 95 are all around Paris and do not belong to alphabetical order that is common from 01 to 90.

The DOM, Departements d'Outre-mer, may have contributed to an understandable confusion.

Do not take my word for it. Do a search on the internet.

I suggest

http://cbandiera.free.fr/depart.php

or the Official INSEE, look at the numbers going from 01 to 95 from Metropolitan France.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/ffc/pop_legale/dep.asp

==Bureau du Roi==

Not all of us live in France, or have the chance to visit it, so we have to work from books. I know I did a lot of preparation on Bureau du Roi, working from books printed in the 50s and 60s (as well as from the 1911 edition of the Britannica, and other encyclopedias I have access to) and I assume Wetman did a bit of work too, so we were not doing a slavish copy of the 1911 edition. Thanks for placing it in the right museum. [[User:AlainV|AlainV]] 17:42, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

==Disagreement about overseas territories==

As I suppose you are as French as I am, I write in French...

Pas d'accord avec ton analyse sur la Polynésie, regarde la [http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/texteconsolide/MVEAQ.htm loi organique] portant statut d'autonomie de la Polynésie française, et notamment le deuxième alinéa de l'article 1er : ''Pays d'outre-mer au sein de la République, la Polynésie française constitue une collectivité d'outre-mer dont l'autonomie est régie par l'article 74 de la Constitution.''

Je comprends l'enchaînement des concepts comme suit : on appelle "collectivité d'outre-mer" un territoire régi par l'article 74 de la Constitution -et à ce titre la polynésie est une COM. Deux de ces COMs ont des titres un peu ronflants destinés à faire plaisir à leurs élus/habitants : la Polynésie ''pays d'outre-mer'' et Mayotte ''collectivité départementale'', mais c'est plutôt une plaisanterie en l'absence de toute disposition légale s'appliquant à ces types de collectivité. Ma lecture est aussi celle de la[http://www.vie-publique.fr/actualite/dossier/outremer.htm Documentation française].

Pour les TAAF, je concède que ce n'est tout simplement pas évident. La Documentation française pense, comme moi, que ce ne sont pas des COMs. Un argument prépondérant (selon moi) étant que le statut des COMs doit être fixé par loi organique, alors que celui des TAAF est du domaine de la loi simple. Mais je note que la ministre de l'outre-mer dans son [http://www.outre-mer.gouv.fr/outremer/front?id=outremer/ministere/ministre/publi_P_mon_ambition_1040917049181 sa page web programme] range les TAAF parmi les COMs. Il me semble plus simple de les considérer comme catégorie ''sui generis'' comme la Nouvelle-Calédonie. Pas d'accord du tout par contre pour garder l'appelation "territoire d'outre-mer" pour eux : elle a été retirée de la Constitution, avec la volonté manifeste de la faire disparaître de l'ordre juridique français, et qualifier les TAAF de "TOM" me paraît un anachronisme.

Voilà c'est tout j'espère qu'on va arriver à un consensus, parce qu'on est à peu près les deux seuls éditeurs à nous intéresser à la structure administrative de l'outre-mer français. --[[User:French Tourist|French Tourist]] 12:48, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Un dernier détail sur les TAAF - je suis allé voir leur site web, et effectivement la page statut les qualifie de TOM, mais c'est une page datée de 2003, qui ne fait pas allusion à la nouvelle mention des TAAF dans la Constitution et qui enfin écrit de façon manifestement erronée que c'est le ''seul territoire d'outre-mer qui (...)''. Pour moi, elle ne suffit pas à faire autorité, d'autant qu'elle contredit les autres pages plus récentes que j'ai citées ci-dessus --[[User:French Tourist|French Tourist]] 12:53, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Je reviens sur le sujet après avoir lu ta réponse et traîné quelques jours à répondre en retour.

* Sur les TAAF, pas convaincu qu'il y ait _une_ réponse (il n'y a pas une personne qui s'est demandé "on les laisse TOM ou on les fait évoluer" ?) mais plusieurs lectures d'une situation pleine de contradictions. Aucune objection à la tienne (sous réserve, si la Wikipedia existe encore dans plusieurs années, de s'autoriser à faire évoluer ça en fonction de l'opinion qui sera devenu dominante dans les traités de droit).
* Sur la Polynésie française, je ne modifie pas mon opinion, en revanche. Tu écris dans ton intervention sur ma page de discussion ''Il me semble que si le Conseil Constitutionnel avait été consulté, il aurait sans doute censuré l'appellation "pays d'outre mer" comme contraire à la constitution.'' Mais le Conseil Constitutionnel _a_ été consulté : comme il s'agit d'une loi organique, il a eu à statuer et l'a fait par sa [http://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/decision/2004/2004490/2004490dc.htm décision 2004-490]. Comme tu pourras le vérifier (et comme je viens juste de le découvrir) mon interprétation est officiellement la sienne, cf. le considérant 13 : ''Considérant que l'article 1er de la loi organique, après avoir précisé la configuration territoriale de la Polynésie française, énonce les principes généraux applicables à la Polynésie française, collectivité d'outre-mer dont l'autonomie est régie par l'article 74 de la Constitution ; que, s'il désigne cette dernière comme " pays d'outre-mer ", cette dénomination n'emporte aucun effet de droit ; que, dans ces conditions, l'article 1er n'est pas contraire à la Constitution ;'' : la Polynésie reste bien une COM, et l'appelation de ''pays d'outre-mer'' est juste un gadget sans effet juridique pour faire plaisir à Gaston. Te convainc-je cette fois ? --[[User:French Tourist|French Tourist]] 21:12, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
:Can you please not write in French. This is the english wikipedia and writing in french excludes monolingual idiots such as myself. Merci Baucoup! [[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken]][[User talk:BrokenSegue|'''S'''egue]] 18:07, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

== Emperors template ==

Good job on improving and creating articles on various Chinese historical figures. Your edits on names are quite informative. I [[Wikipedia_talk:History_standards_for_China-related_articles#Emperor_naming_conventions|proposed here]] a [[Template:Chinese Emperor|template]] for the various emperor articles and tested it at [[Kangxi]]. Please help out or comment if your interested. Please also comment at [[Talk:1st Prince Chun]]. Cheers, [[User:Jiang|Jia]][[User talk:Jiang|'''ng''']] 00:59, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

==Metropolitan==

I think your rearrangement of the [[metropolitan]] disambiguation page was misleading. One writes "Alexius became Metropolitan of Kiev in 1354"; it would be quite unusual to write "Alexius became Metropolitan Bishop of Kiev in 1354". The word ''metropolitan'' used in that sense is a ''noun'', not an adjective; if it were an adjective you would not see the plural form ''metropolitans'', which in fact is a commonplace usage (e.g., see [[list of Metropolitans and Patriarchs of Moscow]]). [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 01:00, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:''Metropolitan is BOTH a noum and an adjective. As an adjective it means "relating to, or designating an ecclesiastical metropolis". As a noun it means "a bishop with provincial powers". So both are true.''

That's why I thought what you did was misleading; you made it appear that the word is used as a noun '''''only''''' when it refers to a car model. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] 21:12, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

== Limit tables to 300px ==

Trying to break lines within tables to limit their width is the idiotic way of doing things. It requires using the preview button a gazillion times. Please dont tell me this looks better:

[[Image:Guangxu_screen.JPG|500px|]]

We '''must''' keep tables 300px wide at most to accomodate those with smaller screens. Please dont mass revert my formatting either since the general rule is to link once per article and list Chinese only if the article does not exist. If you disagree, then explain. --[[User:Jiang|Jia]][[User talk:Jiang|'''ng''']] 01:29, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:It is possible to add line breaks within the 300px scheme by breaking earlier than usual. Or add &nbsp to prevent breakage. If there's a problem with rendering, I would like to see it. On my screen, all the dates fit to one line. The painfully designed tables were not screwed up once I removed all those br tags. Provide a screenshot to demonstrate that the automatic sizing is inferior because I cant see it on my computer.

:I understand your position that we should accomodate those who cannot read unicode, but we also have interests of saving space. We already have characters there... I won't revert you at Mencius or Confucius, but I request an explanation of why you destroyed my link to [[Chinese philosophy]] and addition of [[Wikipedia:Alternative text for images|alternative text for the image]] at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Mencius&diff=0&oldid=6460799 Mencius].

:As for not listing characters for articles that already exist, the guidelines are listed at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style for China-related articles]]. I did not write them, but follow them for the sake of consistency. If you disagree with the rule then go ahead and argue against it at the relevant talk page.

:Please do not tell me what not to edit. I'm afraid you don't understand the whole point of a wiki. '''If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed ''at will'', do not submit it.''' As long as formatting changes are an improvement, no matter how trivial, they are welcome. And no, I won't be changing BE to AE. I read the fucking manual and follow it. If you're annoyed, even though I really am annoying, then I'm afraid this place is not for you.

:The name of the Qing Dynasty in romanized Manchu is not relevant in an article on one of its Emperors. It is only relevant in the article on the [[Qing Dynasty]] itself. It's kind of for the same reason we dont flood the article with Chinese characters for every term or person mentioned. I have yet to hear a convincing argument at [[Wikipedia talk:History standards for China-related articles]] on why these tables should be an exception to the convention and why we ''need'' redundancy. Cheers, [[User:Jiang|Jia]][[User talk:Jiang|'''ng''']] 03:53, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The date thing is a problem. The Kangxi article just didnt have its br tags removed yet. Try adding & nbsp ; (no spaces) to the spaces where the date is breaking off and see if that forces it to stay onto one line. I did that to keep the link to Posthumous name togethter.

If there's no article, then it's pefectly fine to add Chinese charcters. Again, if you disagree with the policy, don't just break it on your own - argue against it. I don't think its a bad idea for certain cases.

I've noticed that I keep getting cached version while trying to view page differences and revisions. The current version shows up fine for me though. Try pressing CTRL and F5 to refresh the page. Your edits at Mencius have apparently showed up. If it doesn't work, delete your cache.

Yes, there's a rule against switching AE to BE or vice versa on neutral topics (China-related topics count as neutral since the language is Chinese). There's no rule against formatting changes. I've been pressed with other things these past few weeks so I've tried to stay away from time-consuming edits. I'm mostly monitoring my watchlist nowadays. --[[User:Jiang|Jia]][[User talk:Jiang|'''ng''']] 02:40, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

==Manchu studies==
Hello. I made comments on your edits about Manchus: [[Talk:Kangxi Emperor#Ethnicity of Kangxi's mother]], [[Template talk:Qing namebox]] and [[Talk:Aisin Gioro#Aisin Jiaolue?]]. --[[User:Nanshu|Nanshu]] 07:04, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

==Did you know has been updated==
And an article you created recently has made the line up and is now featured on the main page. Enjoy! -- [[User:MacGyverMagic|[[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|<sup>[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|(talk)]]</sup>]] 21:09, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

== Emperors of China ==

Absolutely wonderful work! Keep it up. --[[User:OldakQuill|[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak]] [[User_talk:OldakQuill|Quill]]]] 10:22, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

==Qing dynasty==
I study Manchu by myself using these textbooks:
*Kawachi Yoshihiro &#27827;&#20869;&#33391;&#24344;, Kiyose Gisabur&#333; Norikura, ''Mansh&#363;go bungo ny&#363;mon'' &#28288;&#27954;&#35486;&#25991;&#35486;&#20837;&#38272;, Kyoto University Press, 2002.
*Li, Gertraude Roth, ''Manchu: A Textbook for Reading Documents'', University of Hawaii Press, 2000.
I only read Manchu texts with the help of dictionaries. I don't write, speak, or listen to Manchu. Actually, official documents don't tell me how they said hello in Manchu :)

I took Manchu given names, era names and others from an appendix of &#31616;&#26126;&#28385;&#27721;&#36766;&#20856; which was compiled by &#21016;&#21402;&#29983; and others. I have a complete list of them though I haven't yet add it to Wikipedia. Note that Qing emperors did have full posthumous names in Manchu, but it's not easy to know them. Japanese researchers (and non-Japanese ones I think) who utilize Manchu literature mostly focus on early Manchu history, so the Toyo Bunko published &#28415;&#25991;&#32769;&#27284;, &#26087;&#28415;&#24030;&#27284; &#22825;&#32880;&#20061;&#24180;, and &#20869;&#22283;&#21490;&#38498;&#27284; &#22825;&#32880;&#19971;&#24180;. I found Nurhaci's full posthumous name at Manchu archives which appeared at ''Shin taiso jitsuroku no kenky&#363;'' &#28165;&#22826;&#31062;&#23526;&#37682;&#12398;&#30740;&#31350; by Matsumura Jun &#26494;&#26449;&#28516;, but as you know, it was modified by succeeding emperors. They also use Manchu literature for studies for Mongolian affairs and campaigns against the Oyirad, but not for Chinese history. If I coud fully access Manchu archives stored at &#20013;&#22269;&#31532;&#19968;&#21382;&#21490;&#26723;&#26696;&#39302;, I could find full posthumous names.

As I said above, Manchu studies specialize in early Qing history, and its campaign against and administration for Inner Asia. So currently I have no plan to engage in middle and late Qing articles.

As far as I know, the only way to display Unicode Manchu "properly" for Windows is to use the font named [http://home.att.net/~jameskass/ Code2000] with proper USP10.dll. Still, I think it exhibits too erroneous behavior for Wikipedia to adopt, possibly due to the incomplete specification. For more technical info, see [http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Scripts/Mongolian.html] and [http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/Manchu.html].
--[[User:Nanshu|Nanshu]] 07:51, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


== Portraits of Emperors of China, ancient scripts of Chinese characters and sinological materials ==

Hello. Your works on those materials are truly impressive. Would you mind sharing how you collected those materials, for instance, the seal script of [[Empress Wu Zetian of China]] and the [[State of Qi]] ? [[User:Ktsquare|Ktsquare]] [[User_talk:Ktsquare|(talk)]] 05:10, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[[Ci'an]] is written with an amazing ''balance'' of the common ultra-nice view and the rarer crticisms. --[[User:Menchi|Menchi]] 21:22, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What you just did to [[Qin (state)]] was weird...

== Article Licensing ==

Hi, I've [[User:rambot#Free the Rambot Articles project|started a drive]] to get users to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the [[Creative Commons]] Attribution-Share Alike (''CC-by-sa'') v1.0 and v2.0 [[Creative Commons License|License]]s or into the [[public domain]] if they prefer. The ''CC-by-sa'' license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the [[GFDL]], but it allows '''other projects''', such as [[WikiTravel]], to use our articles. Since you are among the [[Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_number_of_edits|top 1000]] Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at ''minimum'' those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
*[[User talk:Ram-Man#Multi-Licensing FAQ|Multi-Licensing FAQ]] - Lots of questions answered
*[[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|Multi-Licensing Guide]]
*[[User:rambot#Free the Rambot Articles project|Free the Rambot Articles Project]]

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "'''<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>'''" template into their user page, but there are other options at [[Wikipedia:Template messages/User namespace#Licensing Templates|Template messages/User namespace]]. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

:'''Option 1'''
:<nowiki>I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>
'''OR'''
:'''Option 2'''
:<nowiki>I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:</nowiki>
:<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "'''<nowiki>{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}</nowiki>'''" with "'''<nowiki>{{MultiLicensePD}}</nowiki>'''". If you only prefer using the [[GFDL]], I would like to know that too. ''Please let me know'' what you think at my '''[[User talk:Ram-Man|talk page]]'''. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- [[User:Ram-Man|Ram-Man]] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Ram-Man&action=edit&section=new comment]| [[User talk:Ram-Man|talk)]]

== Joan of Arc Article ==

This concerns your edits to the Joan of Arc article.

I'm a historian who specializes in this subject, and I would point out that the "national consciousness" idea was popularized by authors such as Twain and Shaw, not by historians. During Joan's campaigns, the French were not even united into a single faction to begin with, and nationalism as we know it had not evolved yet. Moreover, Joan's stated motive was to place Charles VII on the throne since he had the better feudal claim: she never made any statements equating to "national sentiment", which is anachronistic when applied to this period.

Joan's presence increased support for the Armagnac faction, but she did not unite the entire French populace (reconciliation with the Burgundian faction would not occur until 1435, and other nobles would similarly remain outside the Armagnac group for some time).

I have therefore changed the introduction again accordingly.

Regards,

Allen Williamson, Joan of Arc Archive ([[User:AWilliamson|AWilliamson]] 05:19, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC))

== Gregorian vs. Julian calendar ==

I was going by [[Wikipedia:History_standards_for_China-related_articles#Era_names]] in changing Julian dates to Gregorian dates. If you think the policy should be changed or clarified, please discuss. --[[User:Jiang|Ji]][[User talk:Jiang|ang]] 22:21, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

:Please change the guideline and post on the relevant [[Wikipedia talk:History_standards_for_China-related_articles|talk page]]. Your expertise is also requested regarding the naming convention of Yuan emperors. No, it is not obvious. I posted a note one and a half weeks ago and waited for a response. I still havent gotten one. --[[User:Jiang|Ji]][[User talk:Jiang|ang]] 14:37, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

== UK population ==

On infoboxes we put the population from [[List of countries by population]]. In that page we also rank countries in descending order, and that is the ranking number we put beside the population figure on all infoboxes. The aformentioned list is an estimate from the US Census based on information given by the countries themselves. It is a projection for July 2005 which is quite handy to have for a comparable table. This mantains a consistency throughout Wikipedia. The hard fact population figure is given by the census data (carried by each country) which is also there in the infobox. Please don't continue to revert this page. Thank you. Also, see the policy [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries]] if you are interested on how information is handled on infoboxes. —[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 11:54, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

== Provinces of France ==

Hey, I'd be happy to help with maps, although I'm not specifically sure of what to do. I fully agree with everything you say on the talk page - the page was and is a mess. I've tried to clean it up a bit by making the map listing more accurate and taking out some of the more misleading stuff, but I still don't think it really works. I think that any map we have should a) clearly show the areas that were simply ''not'' provinces of France, because they were not ''part'' of France during the old regime (that is to say, the Comtat Venaissin, Avignon, Savoy, Nice, Mulhouse, and Montbéliard); b) indicate clearly the different meanings of province, as you suggest, and hopefully have maps showing gouvernements, generalités, ecclesiastical provinces and dioceses, pays d'états, parlement jurisdictions, and so forth; and perhaps c) try to explain places commonly designated as provinces, but which do not fit in any of these categories. BTW, are you familiar with [http://www.euraldic.com/txt_br1907_divisions_som.html this site]? It seems useful for these purposes. [[User:John Kenney|john]] [[User_talk:John Kenney|k]] 21:48, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

==Detroit River==
You might want to double check your sources on your recent edit. ''Rivière des Moines'' means "river of the monks" and is the origin of the name of the [[Des Moines River]] in [[Iowa]], and of the city [[Des Moines, Iowa]]. -- [[User:Decumanus|Decumanus]] 23:37, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)

== cut-and paste move? ==

Do I understand correctly that you just did a cut-and-paste move of content from [[Cerdanya]] to [[Cerdagne]]? And blanked [[Talk:Cerdanya]]? Cut-and-paste moves are a real no-no (the history gets completely separated from the article). And there is almost never a reason to delete other people's comments from a talk page. I can probably fix this, but I'd like first to understand what is going on. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 20:18, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
:But you didn't use the Move function, you cut and pasted, right? -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 20:53, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
::A redirect with no history doesn't prevent the move. But more to the point, if you couldn't move it yourself, tag it for an admin to do. I'm going to clean it up now, but I may lose your after-move edits. I'll try to preserve them, but you might have to redo them. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 21:05, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
:::Well, things get backed up. But you just made ''tremendously'' more work for me fixing this after the fact. Question: when you tagged it, did you make a request either to an admin you know or on the [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]] or [[Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)|Village pump (assistance)]] asking for followup? -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 21:14, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
:::I believe it's fixed now. Took two of us. Please, please, next time ask an admin, it saves a lot of grief, honest. -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 21:33, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
:::So this time you decided to get attention by making it a big problem for someone? -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 21:48, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

== Montreal, accent tonique==
"Corrected IPA, there's no tonic stress in French". Isn't there a slight stress at the end of any word? I do not have a very good ear but I usually can detect it among Montrealers. Those who speak French as a mother tongue of course. --[[User:AlainV|AlainV]] 16:55, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

==Parliament Hill==

Thank you for adding the French saying of Parliament Hill. I'm editing the page, so that there isn't a gap between the end and the bottom of the page. [[User:SNIyer12]] 19:36 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

==Dynasty templates==
Hi there. I've just noticed you reverted the French royal dynasty images to the previous ones. You're right they are quite poor computer renditions, but I was just wondering, where does the fact that they were never used by the monarchs stem from? [[User:Craigy144|&#9834; Craigy &#9835;]] 23:52, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
:Ah I see! Well thanks for clearing that up. It might have looked better to have the grandes armoiries on each template but I guess it would be rather misleading and one can't change history I suppose. Top marks for research anyway! Thanks [[User:Craigy144|&#9834; Craigy &#9835;]] 00:24, May 7, 2005 (UTC)

==[[:Image:A380 1.jpg]]==
Hi, I need to know your source for this image. [[User:Thuresson|Thuresson]] 20:53, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

:I can't find the photo on the web site. However, information on the presidential website in not public domain. [http://www.elysee.fr/elysee/francais/informations_site.22763.html]
:'' Les graphismes, photographies et ressources multimédias ne peuvent être reproduits sans accord préalable. Pour les créations graphiques et les illustrations, les demandes doivent être adressées aux détenteurs des droits.''

:Let me just say that your claim that the photo is public domain is '''very misleading'''. 22:32, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

== Khmer Krom ==

Hi,

The claim that there are 8 million Khmer Kroms in Vietnam seems to originate from Khmer Krom groups, which have as much motivation to overstate the numbers as the Vietnamese government has to understate it. Do you have any independent estimates of these numbers? [[User:DHN|DHN]] 16:48, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

== Carte de France ==

J'ai débuggué la mienne&nbsp;: un script avait mangé tous les noms de villes contenant une lettre accentuée, ainsi que les agglomérations dont la ville centrale faisait moins de 50000 habitants. Tu as fait comment la tienne&nbsp;? Édition à la main&nbsp;? [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 20:54, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Je ne vois pas de bug sur la version actuelle. Tu es sûr que tu n'as pas la carte en cache? (shift-reload) [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 21:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Bon, ce coup là ce sont les villes avec des espaces dans les noms qui ne sont pas passés. Comme tu peux le supposer, la carte est réalisée entièrement automatiquement d'après des bases de données. C'est pourquoi je ne suis pas très chaud pour les bricolages à la main par dessus. Imaginons par exemple qu'on veuille changer la légende, la façon de représenter... ou qu'on veuille traduire les noms des villes (Paris => Parigi, etc.). Très facile avec les scripts, pénible à la main. En plus, ça se corrige en 2 secondes dès qu'on voit les exemples qui foirent. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 22:14, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Réparé. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 00:05, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Actuellement, le diamètre des symboles est proportionnelle au logarithme de la population. La logique voudrait plutôt qu'on utilise la racine carrée, ce qui donne un disque d'aire proportionnelle à la population. Qu'en penses-tu&nbsp;? (cf exemple) [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 00:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

J'ai bien compris ce que tu voulais mais cela n'est pas si simple.

En ce qui concerne les aires urbaines: je répète, je n'ai pas les données sous une forme simplement utilisable pour faire des cartes (i.e. bitmap haute résolution ou vectoriel) et la carte que tu proposes n'est pas franchement facile à utiliser dans ce but. On peut, bien évidemment, essayer de décalquer une carte existante pour en extraire les aires urbaines mais
* cela pose des problèmes du point de vue du droit d'auteur de cette carte
* cela ne permet pas de sortir des cartes haute résolution (bon, l'objection saute si on se contente de faire des cartes 400x400 pour Wikipédia)
* il n'est pas évident de récupérer une projection et une échelle correctes.

Bien entendu, on peut prendre Photoshop ou Gimp et charcuter les images dans tous les sens...

Ce qu'il serait éventuellement possible, selon moi: prendre la carte citée, effacer le texte par dessus les dessins des aires, pointer quelques villes de coordonnées connues, en déduire la relation de projection avec les coordonnées en degrés (WGS84), récupérer l'image comme fond de carte.

Mais cela n'est pas si facile. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 04:47, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:France cities areapop.png|thumb|center|400px]]

== [[Nicolas Sarkozy]] ==

Félicitations pour les informations biographiques précises. Je dois avouer que j'en avais marre des interventions de ceux qui croyaient important, sur la foi de vagues descriptions de la mère de N.S. comme étant de "Greek-Jewish origins", de décréter que Sarkozy était juif. [[User:David.Monniaux|David.Monniaux]] 20:54, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Empress Dowager Cixi ==

Thanks for the edit for "...the de facto ruler of the Manchu Qing Dynasty, ruling over China for most of the period from 1861 to her death in 1908" It is much more accurate now. [[User:Tomhongs|Tomhongs]] 11:10, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I'd like to spend a bit of time justifying what is left of my credibility, and also to recognize some of my mistakes. I was born in Nanjing, China and had been educated until high school there. Although I have moved on in a career mostly occupied by sociological studies, I also do a bit of freelance journalism. I do agree that history is not my area of expertise, but I have an ardent interest in reading about it, and it seems to me that is also one of my few interests on Wikipedia. I have a workable command of Chinese, and I was required to learn the Pinyin system in elementary school, and am a supporter of the system myself. My reference to "Jehol" as opposed to "Rehe" was based on my assumption that westernized versions of naming is more desirable when that certain convention is most widely known in the west. For example, Chefoo and Port Arthur can be used in place of Yantai and Lushun; but note in my edits that Zaiheng and Duanhua were not Ts'ai hung and Tuan-wah. I must scold myself for whatever grammatical mistakes I have managed to make. On the matter of the actual content of my edits,
I am aware of the inaccurate nature of some western biographies, I had recently been reading [[Keith Laidler]]'s ''The Last Empress'', and I myself thought much of the information is not credible. For example, the whole plot and prophecy of the Yehenala Woman bringing down the Aisin-Gioro clan. But I drew parallels, campared and contrasted a lot of the later content to what was written about her from Chinese sources (whose credibility I have yet to check), and went ahead to edit an article that desperately needs some work, knowing that experts like yourself would correct my content when it is inaccurate -- that is what Wikipedia is for. I did not, however, expect a total deletion of what I had edited, and I am disappointed in such a sudden removal of my work that took a significant amount of time. I will continue to edit the article, from various sources, and I do ask for your advice in building this article. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+([[User talk:Colipon|T]]) 17:40, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==re: Sarkozy (on Dubaduba's talk page)==
Hi,

I've seen your message on [[User:Dubaduba]]'s talk page regarding the pronunciation of Sarkozy's father's name. It seems he haven't done it yet. I can record its pronunciation, if the article still needs it, but this name is a bit tricky, since "Nagy-Bócsay" is a title of nobility ("of Nagy-Bócsa") and it looks quite odd in the middle of the name. Anyway, just tell me what do you think about it and I'll record the audio.

regards,

[[User:Alensha|Alensha]] 23:54, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)


==Montreal==
Merger info is very big, and is not all that relevant when telling a ''summary'' of a city. I don't see why it can't have its own article, since many articles have sub articles like that much smaller. The point of a main article about a city is to not go into details about any specific part, and all major cities have sub articles. [[User:Elfguy|Elfguy]] 29 June 2005 19:57 (UTC)

== Khmer script ==

I noticed you add the Khmer spelling into articles via graphics. While this is probably the best way right now to ensure people have a chance to actually see it (given the poor support of Khmer in Unicode or existing fonts), I hope you agree that this should only be a temporary workaround. I don't know how you create those graphics, but I'd think you have the Unicode version of that text as well when preparing them - recreating that from the graphic is much more difficult for a non-speaker. Why don't you add that Unicode version at least into the image description, so it can later be used to replace the image? Or maybe even better add it as a comment into the article? I know it was a pain when I tried to find the Khmer spelling of the provinces while adding those infoboxes like in [[Pailin]] - [http://www.nis.gov.kh/areaname/dist_name.htm] has them, but with the old encoding, so it needed a lot of recoding work, and then the font I have doesn't even display all of them correctly. [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 30 June 2005 16:11 (UTC)

:Seems like that website uses the same encoding as the link I posted above. Thus it is possible to convert it to unicode, but I have to search again how I did it last time :-) However I haven't yet found how to find words like "Dangrek" on that site - maybe you can prepare a list english-khmer by simply copying the text from that site. I will then try to convert it to unicode, so we have that ready once Khmer in unicode is better supported. [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 5 July 2005 07:29 (UTC)

==[[:Image:GuScr.jpg]]==
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{| align=center border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=4 style="border: 2px solid #FF0000; background-color: #F1F1DE"
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| '''Image deletion warning'''
| style="font-size: 80%" | The image [[:Image:GuScr.jpg]] has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion]]. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.
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== Qing Nobility ==

I welcome your opinions on the naming convention of Qing Dynasty nobility at[[Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Chinese)#Qing_Nobility]]. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+([[User talk:Colipon|T]]) 06:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

----
With your permission, Hardouin, I would like to designate the naming conventions officially onto the project page (either the Historical standards or naming conventions, or both); feel free to make your suggestions in terms of the exceptions, please point out the ones I've missed. The conventions are as follows:

For '''Article Titles'''

1.All Qing Dynasty nobility of the '''imperial family line''' are to be named by '''given name''', i.e. [[Dorgon]] (the Prince Rui), [[Yinxiang]] (the Prince Yi) etc. With the following important '''exceptions''', deemed necessary by their frequency of usage in English literature:
**'''Yixuan''' will be known as the [[1st Prince Chun]].
**'''Zaifeng''' will be known as the [[2nd Prince Chun]].
**'''Yikuang''' will be known as the [[Prince Qing]].
**'''Yixin''' will be known as the [[Prince Gong]].
**Note:All the above pages must also be '''redirected''' from pages titled with their given name.
2.All Qing Dynasty nobility that had received given titles as a distinction for valour and achievement will be titled by their '''given name''', as there titles are seldom attatched to their names in neither Chinese nor English literature.

3.Articles with a hereditary title that is inherited through multiple generations without a change to the title itself, such as [[Prince Zheng]] and [[Prince Yi]], will not be about individuals, but rather have a list of every person that had inherited the title, along with the rank and year.

For '''Introduction Paragraphs'''

:'''[given name], the [name of princedom]''' ([[Chinese]]:[name in Chinese including Prince title]; [[Pinyin]]: [name only]; [[Wade-Giles]]: [name only]; [[Posthumous name]] (if applicable): [pinyin, Chinese]; [any name changes during lifetime, for example, avoiding an Emperor's taboo]) ([date of birth and death]) of the Manchu [clan name] clan as a noble of the [[Qing Dynasty]] born as the [order of birth] surviving son to [father]. His mother was [name] of [clan].

(Perhaps a template would do for the first paragraph)

:Example:
:'''Yinti, the Prince Xun''' ([[Chinese]]: 恂郡王&#32996;&#31157;; [[Pinyin]]: Yìntí; [[Wade-Giles]]: Yin-t'i; [[Posthumous name]]: Qín 勤; born '''Yinzheng''' 胤祯; '''Yunti''' 允&#31157; to avoid Yongzheng's [[taboo]];) ([[1688]]—[[1767]]) of the [[Aisin-Gioro]] clan was the [[Kangxi Emperor]]'s fourteenth son who was said to be the favourite to succeed him. He was the brother of [[Yongzheng Emperor|Yinzhen]] born to the same mother, the De Concubine of the [[Wuya]] Clan (i.e. the [[Xiaogong Empress Dowager]] 孝恭仁太后).

Tell me what you think. [[User:Colipon|Colipon]]+([[User talk:Colipon|T]]) 00:46, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

==[[Origin and history of the name Myanmar]]==

A sub-article has already been created. If you are unable to create a summary, then it would have to remain summary-less until such time as someone else prepares one. Please do not insert the full text into the main article &mdash; it takes over half of its total length. See: [[Azerbaijan]], [[Albania]] (too lengthy a section actually), etc. for this proportionality I speak of. Also, please see [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries]]. Thanks. [[User:El C|El_C]] 17:46, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
:Also, you may find [[List_of_country_name_etymologies#M|this]] (last entry) to be of interest. [[User:El C|El_C]] 00:05, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
::Oh, and I reverted your lead because it was poor English grammar and unnecessarily self-referential (the reader will see the etymology article bellow anyway, as the first section). I still think you ''can'' and should summarize it in a single paragraph, it shouldn’t be an insurmountable task. Finally, please consider looking over your [[Origin and history of the name Myanmar]] article; copyediting, creating subsections, etc. Thanks again. [[User:El C|El_C]] 00:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

== Map ==

Hi there. It was no easy task, since first I had to find a suitable map. This map [http://mapserver.inegi.gob.mx/geografia/espanol/datosgeogra/basicos/estados/df_geo.cfm] is the only one I found on the net that had the right dimensions and proper political boundaries. Then I used Photoshop to remove the names and change the colors of the original map. The color scheme I used is in line with other maps of Mexico you'll see in Wikipedia, to keep consistency. Finally I created a new map with each ''delegación'' highlighted, as you can see [[User:Rune.welsh/Images|here]]. In all, creating the maps took me about 1 hr, and 20 mins to upload them.

From what I've read, France has many departments. It's going to be a lot of work, so if you need help you're welcome to let me know. -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 17:29, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

:I had absolutely '''no''' idea administrative divisions in France were so complicated. And I was just complaining the other day to a friend when I read about Spain's, hehehe. Anyway, I'd gladly help you with the maps as long as you can point me to the appropriate references and so I don't mess up with information. Don't be afraid to send me links in French. I can understand it fairly well.

:Have you considered making this a wikiproject? Drawing up 4000+ maps between two people is certainly not going to be an easy task. And the mere thought of uploading all those images one by one makes me shriver. I think there used to be a bot for uploading images that was used for US counties... but I'm not sure if it exists anymore.

:Also, you could start by checking the French wikipedia and see if they have some images there already we could use here. Check [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val-d%27Oise here] for an example. -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 18:35, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

::You're right, putting the black border there is going to be the toughest part of the editting. I'll see what I can do and I'll get back to you when I'm done. Do you want to give the file any special name? That's important too. -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 19:23, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

:::Nice job, but I have a little pet peeve against the choice of colors: the greenish and the redish are too similar to each other. You see, I'm colorblind and had a little trouble figuring out which one is which. I think more solid colors (like the blue in the original map you sent me) would be nicer. -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 20:57, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:Hauts-de-Seine.png|250px]]

Check this out and let me know what you think. I've should <strike>have</strike> done the contour thicker, but when I realised it was too thin I was already half-way through the image. About the colours I was thinking more about increasing the contrast, but you're right: as long as people can notice the difference between arrondisements it shouldn't be too much of an issue. (click on the image to see full size, of course.) Enjoy. -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 22:15, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

:I'm working on it. It's going to take me some more time because I have to draw more contours and the fact that I'll be away from my computer till Tuesday. I don't think I'll have it finished before Wednesday :( -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 19:47, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

::Hey there. Just saw the maps on the articles and they look real good. If you still need my help with more maps do let me know :-) -- [[User:Rune.welsh|Rune Welsh]] [[User_talk:Rune.welsh|&tau;&alpha;&lambda;&kappa;]] 14:59, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

==Frankfurt International Airport==
Hello Hardouin. Is there any reason you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frankfurt_International_Airport&diff=18913735&oldid=18191398 removed] all the images from [[Frankfurt International Airport]] or was it accidental? [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 13:31, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

== Frankfurt ==

I don't understand why you simply reverted those edits on Frankfurt. We've been working hard over the last few days to make the [[Frankfurt]] articles ready for a Wikireader -- see [[Wikipedia:WikiReader/Frankfurt]]]. I considered that information to be awkwardly written and duplicative. We don't need the precise skyscraper and airport data in the ''Introduction'' to the article. I am going to revert it back. If you want to edit the Frankfurt articles to a Wikireader level we'd love your help, but please don't erase the work the whole Wikireader group has been doing. Perhaps there could be a smaller skyscraper section with this information. [[User:Tfine80|Tfine80]] 15:44, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

: Fine, I don't want to argue. But it would be a bit nicer if you would consider the reasons that we are making changes in clarity and conciseness for the Wikireader for tomorrow only, rather than simply protecting your edits and not helping with the project. Eventually a skyscraper section and transporation section will have to be made anyway. [[User:Tfine80|Tfine80]] 16:28, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

:: I will at some point. I now understand the need for those points and they can be included without putting the numbers themselves and too many details in the introduction. Writing longer sections listing the major skyscrapers and summarizing the entire transportation system is something that I can certainly do at some point. [[User:Tfine80|Tfine80]] 17:03, 24 July 2005 (UTC)



== CGD-FRA ==

Dear Hardouin
It was no vandalism.

--[[User:Arado|Arado]] 09:18, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

== [[Yangon]] ==

Hello, you may be interested in [[Talk:Yangôn|voting]] on whether the article [[Yangôn]] should be moved to [[Yangon]]. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 21:20, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

== Data updates ==

Hey there! I noticed you udated the GNI figures on [[Economy of the European Union]], I was wondering if you had the URL for them so we could add it to the references section, cheers -- [[User:Joolz|Joolz]] 16:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

== TfD nomination of Template:Alsace infobox ==

[[Template:Alsace infobox]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Alsace infobox]]. Thank you. -- User:Docu

== Mumbai infobox ==

Please see: [[Template talk:Mumbai infobox]] {{User:Nichalp/sg}} 20:04, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

==Image==
Hello, Hardouin! Just wanted to let you know someone wished to know more information about one of the images you uploaded; you may wish to send him an email. See [[Wikipedia:Help desk#How to contact an article author?]]. [[User:Flcelloguy|Flcelloguy]] |<small> [[User talk:Flcelloguy|A <font color = brown> note? ]]</font color>| [[User:Flcelloguy/Desk|Desk </small>]] 20:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Image

==Tolosa==

Are you sure about [[Toulouse|Tolosa]]? I'm pretty sure it's pronounced ''tuluzo'' in Occitan. You didn't leave much of an explanation. --[[User:Christopher Sundita|Chris S.]] 01:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

== French Cities ==

Why do a template for Bordeauxinfobox if this template is only used on this page? [[User:Antoinou2958|antoinou2958]] 22:51, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

== Image deletion ==

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{| align=center border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=4 style="border: 2px solid #FF0000; background-color: #F1F1DE"
|-
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Listed under [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2005 September 12]]. [[User:Thunderbrand|Thunderbrand]] 00:54, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

== Re: Template:Corse infobox ==

It was deleted in line with consensus (unanimity, actually) on TfD, see the link in the deletion log. I checked at the time, and have just checked again that the template is not linked to anywhere: it is not in use at all. [[Corsica]] has been changed over to use the French region infobox (not by me) and single-use templates are not generally to be used. If you like, I can copy the template code into the article directly if you just want to avoid using that infobox. Doing so (or using the previous template) will mean, however that when/if the region infobox is updated, [[Corsica]]'s styling will not match the other French region related articles. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 20:00, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
:Done. However, I would still suggest reverting to the region template to maintain consistency of styles. -[[User:Splash|Splash]] 02:49, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

==French communes==

There is some action at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject French communes]]. If you haven't sone so yet, please come and have a look! [[User:Olivier|olivier]] 12:08, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

== Mississipi discharge ==

Hello... do you remember where you took the discharge values for the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mississippi_River&diff=12833680&oldid=12804842 Mississipi river] article&nbsp;? --[[User:Gloumouth1|Gloumouth1]] 16:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

== France ==

I suggest you start working on integrating the info into Infobox Country, and don't revert without reason. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 00:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

== Flag of Midi-Pyrénées ==

Hi, I've replaced the flag of Midi-Pyrénées you uploaded ([[:Image:I midi pyrenees.jpg]]) with an SVG version ([[:Image:Flag of Midi-Pyrénées.svg]]). Therefore I've listed the original for [[WP:IFD|deletion]]. Hope this is OK. [[User:Mysid|Mysid]] [[User_talk:Mysid|(<font color="#996600">talk</font>)]] 10:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

==Image Tagging [[:Image:CTC.png]]==
<!-- If it says "Editing Template:Image source (section)" at the top, then you are modifying the master copy of this template, and not your user talk page. You should probably go back a page and use the "edit this page" tab at the top instead. -->

Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:CTC.png]]'''. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the [[copyright]] status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, ie in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use <nowiki>{{gfdl}}</nowiki> to release it under the [[GFDL]]. If you can claim [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] use <nowiki>{{fairuse}}</nowiki>.) See [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by going to "Your contributions" from your user page and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thanks so much. [[User:Thue|Thue]] | [[User talk:Thue|talk]] 21:23, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

== Régions d'Outre Mer infobox ==

The Standardised infobox is not suitable for Régions/Départements d'Outre Mer, as it does not include information on department number, or for that matter, international dialling codes - remember that while there is direct dialling between the DOMs and Metropolitan France, each has its own separate international code - you cannot use +33 to call them from other countries and territories (including New Caledonia, French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna) Don't discard useful information - incorporate it!

[[User:Quiensabe|Quiensabe]] 00:26 UTC 2005-10-31

: The comparison with Alaska and Hawaii in the US is not valid - they are treated identically to any state on the US mainland. The DOMs have been grouped with the TOMs because of their anomalous status - that's why there's a special government department for them. While the use of unique internet domains by the Régions/Départements d'Outre Mer may be 'controversial' to you, and may not be widespread, the fact remains that there '''are''' differences between these regions and those of metropolitan France, like [[List of country calling codes|international dialling codes]]. These regions do not use +33 - that's not controversial, that's fact!

[[User:Quiensabe|Quiensabe]] 20:48 UTC 2005-11-11

:: This is what I meant by government department - the [http://www.outre-mer.gouv.fr/outremer/front Ministère de l'Outre-Mer] I used the word 'department' instead of 'ministry' as I was also talking about the US, where the 'ministry' isn't used as a political term.

I have no problems understanding the concept of the Régions/Départements d'Outre Mer, but there are differences between constitutional theory and practical reality - owing to geography, they are not quite identical to metropolitan France.

[[User:Quiensabe|Quiensabe]] 04:13 UTC 2005-11-12

== Statue of Henry IV ==

In the article about Henry IV, you say that you corrected "a gross error," in regards to the statue of Henry IV in Paris. The original article said that the statue was preserved by the Parisian mobs, a fact supported by A History of Western Society a legitimate text book of European history. You changed this article to say that the statue was torn down by the Parisian mob, but was later rebuilt. I am not accusing you of any inaccuracy, but was inquiring of your source in a quest for truth, a truth you seemed sure of in your comment to the change. The Houghton Mifflin textbook says, "[Henry IV] was the only king whose statue the Paris crowd did not tear down in the Revolution of 1789."
:I called it a gross error because it is a well known fact for anyone with some knowledge of Paris history and architecture. There are many references that back up what I said. A quick search on the net retrieved this webpage [http://lefildutemps.free.fr/paris/pont_neuf.htm] which states that the statue was melted during the revolution and replaced with a perfect copy in 1818. If I recall corectly, there is an inscription in Latin at the base of the statue that is dated 1818 (MCCMXVIII) and that says that King Louis XVIII had the statue re-erected. Don't believe everything that is written in American or English books about France, there are lots of inacuracies and myths. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 12:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

== Han Wudi and references ==

I am preparing to nominate [[Emperor Wu of Han]] to be a featured article (note [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Emperor Wu of Han]]), but there are a few improvements to be made. Since you added the section on names, can you provide a list of references you used? Thanks, --[[User:Jiang|Jiang]] 08:04, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

==Paris infobox==
I understand that the changes I made to the Paris infobox made it different from other cities, but do you have any suggestions for how to make it smaller? It's just too long. An infobox is handy when it quickly summarises information for the user, but the Paris one, divided as it is into the 'Commune' and 'Aire urbaine' sections, is really quite unwieldy. Do you have any suggestions? [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 18:27, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

== List of the world's busiest airports by international passenger traffic ==

<strike>Hi,
Do you have source (URL) in [[List of the world's busiest airports by international passenger traffic]]? I couldn't find it on the ACI web site (only total passenger trafic is given on [http://www.airports.org/cda/aci/display/main/aci_content.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-54_9_2__]). Thanks.</strike> [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 23:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Never mind, I just found it [http://www.aci.aero/cda/aci/display/main/aci_content.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-5-212-1376-1380_9_2__]... [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 00:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
:I agree. But I think that, for that reason, the source needed to be mentioned. Which it is now, so everything's OK :) [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 00:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

== Metropolitan area ==

Hi,

Why are you using this phrase "metropolitan area" everywhere? More appropriate terms are, depending on the context: "Paris and its suburbs" (everyday language), "''aire urbaine''" or "''unité urbaine''" (statistics), "''région''" or "Île-de-France" (administrative organization). Thanks. [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 13:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
:I agree on using "metropolitan area" as a rough translation of "aire urbaine". But not as a translation of "Île-de-France". Writing that Franciliens are the inhabitants of the metropolitan area is simply wrong; Franciliens are the inhabitants of Île-de-France, even those of don't live in the ''aire urbaine'' of Paris. (BTW, si tu es français, autant continuer dans notre langue) [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 14:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

==Reverts to [[Paris]]==
Hi,
I noticed you reverted some copyediting I did to the demographics section of Paris: "Recent proposals by Paris' new mayor, [[Bertrand Delanoë]] to gather '''the most '''renowned architects '''in the world '''to build skyscrapers on the outskirts of the city center (but inside the city proper)" and "It is feared that the city of Paris is turning into an '''embalmed '''museum".

Do you have sources to indicate the claim that the architects are really the most renowned in the world? Also, what is an "embalmed museum". On google I can only find a single occurrence of this odd phrase that isn't Wikipedia. So, would you mind explaining why you have reverted this change? Thanks. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 13:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
:About the architects, it is Bertrand Delanoë himself who said he wanted to gather the best architects in the world to build aesthetically acclaimed towers. I am just translating his words. As for "embalmed", again I am just translating the French word ''embaumé'' often used in reference to the muséificiation of Paris. Check for instance [http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:Jw4kkhv9eNoJ:www.leperroquetlibere.com/A-quand-la-Nouvelle-Aire-_a46.html+%22paris+embaum%C3%A9%22&hl=en]. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 14:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
::Re: best architects in the world, that's exactly why you need a reference. It sounds like hyperbole without a reference - now that you say that Delanoe said it himself, then good - just put a quote/reference in. As for "embalmed museum" ... it's just not right...museum is probably fine by itself, but if the concept of embalment strikes you as important, by all means quote something directly, maybe making reference to the original word. But please don't just revert changes made by others without discussion. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 22:48, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
:::Yes, I made changes without discussion - normal. You reverted changes without discussion - not normal. You made claims in the text without reference - normal. I removed unreferenced claims in the text - normal. You reverted changes, reinstated unreferenced claims - not normal. It's about good faith - I assume any text you write is in good faith. If you revert anything other than vandalism without discussion, I can't assume you're still acting in good faith - you could just be being pig headed. Anyway. The only other thing is, just because the mayor claims the architects are the best in the world doesn't mean anything. There are so many spurious "best in the world" or "world famous" claims on WP, the last thing we need is a few more. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 23:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

::::Hey, easy, I'm not accusing you of POV. Actually there are big efforts in Wikipedia at the moment to increase the amount of referencing, since the Siegenthaler incident. There are even proposals on the mailing list to revert any change not backed up by a reference! So it's not unreasonable to have lots of references, even for seemingly trivial non POV details like that - see the featured article [[Shoe polish]]. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 23:24, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::Cool, I can see where you're coming from. As I see it, you're an expert on Paris and get "offended" when someone makes an inaccurate statement. My "expertise" here is techical writing (it's my job), and I get "offended" when anyone destroys writing that I've put time into. As I've said before, I know little about Paris - but I get the most out of Wikipedia when working on sections I'm not an expert on, because then I end up learning about them. See my contributions to [[German grammar]] :)) Anyway I hope we can keep working productively together.[[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 00:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

==[[Paris]] administration==
Actually I didn't remove the fact that there was no mayor before 1977, I actually moved it and reworded it to the end of the preceding paragraph. I think we should leave ThePromenader to edit his image if he wants. I don't think the "original research" aspect is a major problem...it would be good if it was fixed (or justified), but too much effort to manually edit the image, I think (well, for me anyway).
:Well, go ahead and edit the image if you like. I'd rather not go editing someone else's image, especially when I really don't have good grounds for doing it. If it was an area I was expert on, then maybe, but Paris urban build up is just something I don't know anything about. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 12:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

==Paris map==
Hi! Good on you for editing the map. If you don't mind making further changes, it might be worth colouring Paris, the petite couronne and the grande couronne differently, with an appropriate legend. Then the map would really serve two purposes at once. Otherwise yeah I'll just put it straight into the article - the vast majority of TP's original work is still there. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 00:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

==Paris history edits==
We seem to be working well again - I appreciate your edits when you fill in the (numerous) gaps in my knowledge exposed by reediting :) [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 01:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

== Fermat's home ==

Hello. I'm writing an article about Pierre de Fermat and I want to know where you found this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tour_fermat.jpg before use it. Thanks. --[[User:Emijrp|Emijrp]] 16:46, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

:I can see that you uploaded this one [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fermat%27s_will.jpg],say me the source too, please. --[[User:Emijrp|Emijrp]] 16:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

== [[:Image:France colonial Empire10.png]]==
[[Image:France colonial Empire10.png|250px|right]]
I uploaded your map on http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:France_colonial_Empire10.png , can you explain your source, to know if this map have to be improve or not. Thanks your for this map :] [[Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small>{{green|(talk)}}</small>]] 15:28, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
:By "source" I mean "references" (I think it is the same word in english and french), I already seen others maps on Wikipedia showing other shape for Canada. Myself, I don't know what are the true border, but I think we need "sources" ~ [[user:Yug|Yug]] [[User talk:Yug|<small>{{green|(talk)}}</small>]] 16:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

==London Page== I noticed your edit comments, and have reported the user who removed your info. to the Admin. who issued their last warning. Best wishes, [[User:Lion King|Lion King]] 14:08, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. Have taken a look, it seems to be a poor but good faith contribution, however I will watch any further contributions, if any vandalism is commited I will report it OK? [[User:Lion King|Lion King]] 03:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

== Paris RER ==

I'm sorry Hardouin but I disagree with your idea about mixing up RER and suburban rails. When the RATP invented the project of the RER, it's been thought as an express metro, and that's what made it successful. The SNCF addition which was actually simply about connecting suburban rails one another have all been failures. You see this well in comparing the success of the lines A and B with the awckward lines C and D.

It's true that the SNCF is currently trying to make its suburban network feel closer to its RER network. But I don't believe that's the way to follow. If the SNCF wants to be succesful in its RER network, it should get inspired about what made the lines A and B so successful.

For instance, I fail to see the point about serving line C further than Bretigny-sur-Orge and line D further than Corbeil-Essonnes. Those parts of lines should indeed be served by SNCF Ile-de-France lines and not by the RER, as the traffic is insignificant on those portions. Furthermore, the line D should add few more stations inside Paris, as at Porte de Charenton or Bercy. And of course, it should improve its material and rolling stock. If it was only about me, I would let the RATP managing alone the whole RER network. Of course, all this are only about my personal opinion.

To get a more objective stance, the RER network and the SNCF Ile-de-France network are as much separate entities as are the RER network and the metro network. Adding suburban rails in the RER map can only add confusion to this. Hence, I'm sorry but I disapprove such an idea.

== Paris GDP ==

Ok. I had missed the page about economy. I just added a footnote to redirect the reader to the discussion in [[Economy of Paris]]. Since the article about Paris is already too long, I don't think the list of other metropolitan areas is fundamental here since the reader can find it in the sub-article. [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 12:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

==Paris template logo==

The "Coat of arms" logo is listed in [[Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tag]] with the following comment: "''1.5 Images of unknown usability - The following tags do not adequately indicate whether they can be used on Wikipedia. Please add source and licence information, if not provided, and a fair use rationale if the image is being used under fair use.''"

In other words, it doesn't seem really usable on Wikipedia. Furthermore, my semantic skills are not good enough to determine whether the Mairie de Paris logo is a coat of arms or not... I'm afraid I'm not good enough to create a (good) stylised image (even the Eiffel Tower I made took some time playing with Gimp).

The best image, IMHO, would be some small shape representing the metropolitan area (the same as in [[Chicago]], BTW). But a simple photograph is not necessarily bad; many templates use photographs. What about ''two'' small pictures: one on the left with the Eiffel Tower (Paris), the other on the right with the Arche de la Défense (the suburbs)? Note that I have nothing against another version of the coat of arms (simplified or not, as long as it represents the coat of arms and not the Mairie itself). [[User:Thbz|Thbz]] 23:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

== Arrondissement of Saint-Denis ==

Thanks for that - I'll try to complete the job over the weekend. [[User:Dlyons493|<FONT COLOR="#00FF00">Dl</FONT><FONT COLOR="#44FF00">yo</FONT><FONT COLOR="#99DD11">ns</FONT><FONT COLOR="#DDDD11">493</FONT>]] [[User_talk:Dlyons493|<FONT COLOR="#DDDD11">Ta</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00FF00">lk</FONT>]] 18:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

::Done - you might like to cast an eye over it. [[User:Dlyons493|<FONT COLOR="#00FF00">Dl</FONT><FONT COLOR="#44FF00">yo</FONT><FONT COLOR="#99DD11">ns</FONT><FONT COLOR="#DDDD11">493</FONT>]] [[User_talk:Dlyons493|<FONT COLOR="#DDDD11">Ta</FONT><FONT COLOR="#00FF00">lk</FONT>]] 21:32, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

== France ==

Despite your pro-multicultural and multiracial view of indigenous French and European peoples, dont put facts like 40 %of French being descended from migrants without a source. You wonder why there are racial tensions in France, maybe because the indgenous French people want to maintain their homeland and unique cultural and racial identity. Each time you try to put this claim up, I will delete it unless you show me a valid source. Forza Europa. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 04:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

:Umm, [[INED]] doesn't show me anything. Thats hardly a reliable source of information, but I will leave the 40 % statement remain on the article. I still want you to provide me with an internet link to the "facts" from [[INED]] that you speak of. In the meantime I am going to find other sources which refute and question the validity of the ludicrous 40% figure.

Again, the statisitics on that web page have no valid or reliable source of government information. I've already uncovered the fact that the government of France doesn't conduct or release statistics on ethnicity, race or ethnic origin/ancestry. It is also easy to notice that [http://www.quid.fr] is a website with a particular bias towards multi-culturalism and multi-racialism in France and this is not surprising considering the current tensions in French society. Just out of curiosity, are you from France and if so, what are your ethnic origins ? [[User:Epf|Epf]] 14:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

:If you wish to know just how homogenous the indigenouns French people in France are in a physical sense as well as cultural, I have links i can show you if you're interested. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 14:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

In 1850, alot more than 40 percent of people in both the US and Canada had parents or grandparents who were not born there. Also, considering you haven't specified 1850 in the article as to when France is comparable to the US and Canada, you are implying they are comparable in modern times. Almost all Americans and Canadians are descended from immigrants (since the native populations are so small) which is much larger than your 40% claim for France which is NOT supported by a VALID and RELIABLE source and therefore presentes a biased perspective. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 16:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Until you can get a valid source (which is practically impossible due to the lack in availability of this sort of data from the French government) that is cited within this claim in the article, you have no argument in this matter. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 16:15, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

HARDOUIN, read this to realize the faults in your POV and also, keep your POV to yourself and not in the French-related articles !!!

:Canada and the US were built by immigrants. France and the indigenous French people have been there since the nation was created. The majority of the US and Canadian population isnt descended from the native peoples of this land and therefore predominantly from immigrants who arrived in largest numbers between the 18th and 20th centuries. In France, the the indigenous people have been there LONG before the 19th century when waves of new migrants came and French people in France can trace their roots back thousands of years there. We're not talking about going back 10,000 years to when the first organized human farming societiese started to form. I'm talking about the French people who can trace their origins back to the creation of the French nation by Charlegmagne and hence are the indigenous peoples of that land. The majority of people in France are of the French ethnic group and the indigenous people of that land. Here, in the NEW world, the only people who can trace their origins back as long as French people in France can trace their origings back there, are Native Americans who unfortunately form a very small percentage of the population due to European colonization. French-Canadians (who have been here for about 200-300 years now) can trace their family roots back to the time of Charlemagne in France, can these new immigrants ? NO. Your 40 % claim (still not a valid source for it) can not comapre with any country in the new world for that matter, whether it be the US, Canada, Brazil, Australia, Argentina, Etc.. How else can I draw it out to you ? [[User:Epf|Epf]] 20:14, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

You should also take note that several of the ancestry in these people is to a lesser degree than their respective French ancestries and these are few examples of certain noteworthy French people. Also, the INED and Quid sources are non-existent on the France and France Demographics pages and Quid is not a trusted reference encyclopedia considering their facts on ethnicity have no reference/source. Just because some noteworthy people from France had mixed ancestry with their French ancestry doesn't prove the majority of the population is like that. What about the even larger list of notable French people who are of mainly French descent ? [[User:Epf|Epf]] 23:10, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

:So many French people have foreign ancestry ? Yes a significant minority do but 40 % is an exaggerated number and one that you could of made up yourself all I know since you dont have a valid sorce for it. No data has been collected by the French government on the issue of ethnicity and race so the number of French with foreign ancestry is unknown. One thing we do know, from anthropological studies and gentics is that the majority of the population is ethnic French and descended primarily from the pre-Gallic peoples of France who mixed with the Gallo-Romans and later the Franks.

I think you also need to realize that although migration started in the 1850's in France, in the Americas at that time, almost all of the non-native American population was already descended from immigrants of the 18th and 17th centuries. The majority of people in the Americas came during the massive migrations between 1850 till present and those migrations were an incredibly larger number than those who went to France. When you include the fact that the majority of the population before that was already descended from recent European migrants, almost the whole population is descended form migrants from the past 300 years. This is NOT the case in France. There were a significant amount of migrants who started to come from the 19th century onward, but not as large as the numbers seen in the Americas. The migrants to France integrated with a population who had already been there for over a thousand years and were the indigenous French people. This, hopefully, finally shows that France still isnt comparable to the countries of the New World. If you still don't get this, then you really need to get caught up in your history. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 04:59, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

== Your latest Paris revert splurge ==

Just wanted to let you know that I have filed for mediation, and the Paris page has a new addition that it will wear until you can cite factual sources speaking of Paris in the terms you use. I should have done this months ago. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

== Stop removing the "disputed" tag. ==

For the '''second''' time, you will leave the disputed tag where it is. You will prove that your misleading writ is factual truth and common usage, you will allow your debunked theories to be corrected, otherwise you will leave the page as it is. The argument "he's the only one" may apply to individualist behaviour such as page appropriation and reverting (such as your own), but in a question of one contesting evident factual error and POV it is a silly one to make. '' "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed." '' There is a dispute. Everything I contest is detailed in the talk page. Stop grasping at straws in your desperate efforts to waylay resistance. Answer to the above conditions or leave the page as it is. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 08:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
: For a '''THIRD''' time, you will answer to the disputed "facts" where the dispute is, and the dispute will end. You have answered to '''nothing''' until present, so you will leave the tag where it is. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 13:35, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:: For a '''FOURTH''' time: leave the tag where it is. You have answered to nothing and changed nothing. Your writ is of your own invention and comes from no citable reference; if this is false, you have yet to prove it. You use the term "Greater Paris" but once, and when you do you misuse it. Stevage also admitted he knew little on the subject - this is not the case with me. Stop grasping at straws. You will answer to your misconceptions, allow improvement or you prolong the dispute. Period. I will continue to replace the tag as long as you remove it without fulfilling the above conditions, so don't bother. You're only making yourself look more foolish and accomplishing nothing. ''And answer to the Paris dispute on the Paris Talk page''. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

::: PS: Here's some reading for you: [[Wikipedia:NPOV_dispute]] and [[Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute]]. Your writing qualifies for almost '''all''' of both tag's requisites (when only '''one''' is needed to place it). Also read carefully how to resolve disputes - namely verification - and the reasons why it is wrong to remove the tag without dispute resolution. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 00:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, you two. Time to chill. Both of you. I don't even see Hardouin's answers but I bet he needs to chill too :) Edit warring is not fun. Maybe time for a little mediation with an experienced mediator? Maybe there's a WP page where you can get some advice, find a friendly disinterested party etc? But this went beyond petty a long time ago. Seriously. Good luck sorting it out. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 00:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

:::: For the '''FIFTH''' time, you will not remove the tag until you cite referencable sources that use the terms you have chosen for the subjects you insist on using them for, allow corrections to the abovementioned errors or you will change them yourself. Unless you fulfil these conditions the tag remains. Period.

:::: It's nice to see that it's bringing some newcomers to the page though. Don't stomp your footprint all over their contributions too, please.

:::: [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::::: For the '''SIXTH''' time, leave the tag where it is. Stevage has not even begun to try to sort out your network of disinformation, nor wants to. The talk page contains concrete proof of your misconceptions and you have yet to correct, discredit or answer to them. You must do one of the above before the dispute will end. Read and re-read all of it if you wish again to plead short memory. You have no case. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::::: PS: By the way, Stevage thought that the my misgivings with the article ended at a "choice of words". This is of course not the case, and you know full well I told him so later. This failed attempt at tag removal "justification" aside, if you really want to try the "consensus" card, would you like me to play it too? Just now I can think of two occasions where you have been asked specifically to remove the "metropolitan area" apellation where it was unfit for use. Now that I think of it it would make a strong addition to the talk page exposition. Thanks for the idea. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::: For the '''SEVENTH''' time, you will leave the disputed tag where it is until you can cite referenciable sources that speak of Paris as you do. By removing it without doing so, you are only making yourself look foolish. Thank you. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 20:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

== French riots ==

I've just read an excellent article on to why there is such problems with regards to ethnicity in France. France has taken a unique assimilationist view, with regards to ethnic origins, not seen in any other European country [http://riotsfrance.ssrc.org/Cesari/]. This is not to say the indigenous French peoples (langue d'oil and langue d'oc people, Bretons, Basques) don't exist but it is to say the country does not reflect ethnic identifications in government policy. Spain however (which you compared France to) has not taken this approach and the Catalans, Castilians, Galicians and Basques all are indigenous ethnic groups who maintain their identities in state policy. Immigrants to Spain are treated in a more multi-ethnic manner (although prejudice/racism is still vibrant unfortunately) seen in practically all other countries with the exception of France and 19th/early 20th century America. This should settle whatever previous quarrels we had over related topics. [[User:Epf|Epf]] 10:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

==Paris statistics==
Thanks for the info. What can I say - I followed perfectly. I wish I understood TP's viewpoint better so I could see for myself which is "right". From what you have said though, it would seem to be perfectly reasonable to include a very short paragraph early in the article that says "Some people use the term 'metropolitan area' to refer to Ile de France, while others use it to mean a statistical boundary known as the 'aire urbaine'. These terms are 97% the same, but this article will endeavour where possible to make clear which meaning is used."

I cannot for the life of me see why this choice of terms could possibly cause so much angst. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 16:15, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

== Paris Disinformation ==

Hardouin,

I can't at all appreciate some of the misleading "explanations" you left on Stevage's talk page.
* The "almost the same" calculations are your own; although both numbers are available on the iNSEE site, I have never seen any publication or organisation juggle them in this way. Why would they need to? Choose IDF or aire urbaine - Period. Being "almost the same" don't make them exchangable. Period.
* Adding "as the figures show" after the above makes it sound official. The IDF and aire urbaine census numbers ''are'' official, but your personal calculation is ''not''.
* ''"When economists and demographers do not possess data for the aire urbaine of Paris"'' - What is this, what are you suggesting? It looks as if you are again trying to make apples as oranges by putting them in the same phrase: demographers use ''either'' IDF or aire urbaine figures, and economists use IDF and departemental figures. Period. Do not put words in other people's mouths.
* ''"wants to replace the aire urbaine/metropolitan area of Paris and replace them with "Île-de-France""'' - this is flatly untrue. Do not put words in my mouth. Read the Economy edit you reverted so many times if you need proof.
* Île-de-France is an ''administrative region'' like a province or a county. How can you suggest replacing this with a statistical area? I
* I have to chuckle at your telling us foreigners what foreigners understand best.
* ''"French people themselves almost always refer to Île-de-France as the "région parisienne"'' - this is true.
* ''"...because in their mind the Île-de-France région is simply the metropolitan area of Paris."'' - How can you associate this with the former phrase? If I was to apply an adjective to this, I would call it "bald-faced." Most French people don't know what an "aire urbaine" is, let alone a metropolitan area. Most aren't even aware of the ''concept''.

And why are you not discussing the Paris article on the Paris talk page? In light of the above, perhaps I can understand, but this is not normal practice. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 19:04, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

== Paris research ==

Just so you know that I am maintaining my objectivity, I have been doing much research on the various ways foreigners (namely Americans) use the "metropolitan area" term as far as Paris is concerned. Results are varied: some sources (namely medical organisations and the like) use it to ''generally'' speak of the Île-de-France, and some define it as something closer to something resembling an agglomeration - take MSN Encarta's article on Paris. Yet when it comes to discussing anything ''statistical'' or precise this term is ''never'' used "as is" - it is always followed by some sort of explanation. Demographica is the only exception I could find, and even they put "île-de-France" right next to it in brackets - but the source data below it comes from only one source.

I'm sorry but even after all my research I still conclude that even for "general description" passages "metropolitan area" is still a description too imprecise to use for an article that is to be deemed encyclopedic, and for more precise subjects where the "source region" term is to be used, not suitable at all. It is most probably for this ambiguity that no encyclopedia or citable reference in existence uses it.

Cordially,

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 00:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

== Removed "Disputed" tag. ==

I've removed the "Disputed" tag for the upcoming mediation - Stevage was right to metion that. It remains that you have imposed a theme founded by no factual sources. Everything contested is on the [[Talk:Paris]] page - there you can either prove me wrong and cite your sources, or leave the article be corrected or correct it yourself. Should you do as usual do nothing I will be going ahead (again) with corrections, let's say this weekend, and should you revert again without meeting any of the above you will just be making the already evident page appropriation case stronger. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 22:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

== Paris Metro RER Infobox ==

Hi,

About the infobox for Paris, I believe it would be clearer to show all kinds of transports in Paris region. That's why I've added all other kinds of public transit. However, we can't add details about each network since in the end the Infobox will be huge. If I've added the details of the RER network, it was only because it serves throughout the city of Paris and can be used as metro lines in that limit. If you check line maps above the doors in Paris metro, you'll realize that RER lines are pictured in details, not Transilien lines. That's why I believe the Infobox will be clearer if divided in Metro, RER, and all other public transits.

Of course Transilien is a rail system, but tramways are rail system too... and soon there will also be a "tram-train" system. We can start to devellop this in details, but I believe it will be with no ending. Don't hesitate to answer me about it and explain me your point of view in larger details. [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 17:25 18 january 2005
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==La Louisiane==
Hardouin &#8212; puisque vous portez un nom français, je me permets de vous écrire en français &#8212; pour ce qui est de "la Louisiane", cela n'a rien à voir avec l'idée (sur ce point, je suis d'accord avec vous) que les anglophones se font sur l'ajout d'un ''le'' ou d'un ''la'' à tout ce qui est français&nbsp;; mais bien d'un usage entériné en bon français&nbsp;: les états américains prennent l'article. Je vous renvoie à ''Le bon usage'', autrement distant le bon Grevisse, qui fait autorité en la matière:
:(mon édition, 1969, qui date donc un peu, mais sans pour autant être périmé&nbsp;! §317, p264) ''L'article s'emploie&nbsp;: [.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.] 1<SUP>o</SUP> Devant les noms propres de continents, de pays, de provinces, de montagnes, de mers, de cours d'eau, etc.: L"Amérique, la France, la Bourgogne, le Périgord, les Vosges, la Méditerranée, la Loire.''
Cinquante et quelques ans de parler français, et je puis vous assurer catégoriquement qu'il en va de même pour les états des Etats-Unis, qui sont des régions ou des provinces dans le cadre de cette question. J'ai donc corrigé et mis une note au même effet, en anglais bien sûr, à la page "Discussion" .&nbsp;.&nbsp;. Par ailleurs vous aurez vu sur ma page que je suis interpète français/anglais de métier&nbsp;; ce genre de choses a pendant de longues années été mon gagne-pain, malheureusement&nbsp;![[User:Bill Thayer|Bill]] 23:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

:C'est vrai qu'il s'agit d'usage &#8212; aussi ne me suis-je pas précipité sur une grammaire, mais bien sur "Le bon ''usage''" de Grevisse, qui répertorie non les points de grammaire, mais d'usage. Il est vrai aussi qu'on dit bien &#8212; je n'y avais jamais pensé &#8212; "X de Provence" sans l'article. Je constate aussi &#8212; je suis honnête&nbsp;! &#8212; que l'on voit plus souvent en ligne "Etat de&nbsp;L" sans l'article qu'avec&nbsp;; par contre, on voit des tas de sottises en ligne, ce n'est pas entièrement concluant. Mais "etat de Louisiane" sonne aussi mal que "département de Gironde"&nbsp;; je ne dirais jamais ni l'un in l'autre. En tout cas, si j'ai regimbé, c'etait surtout pour m'être vu caractérisé de péquenaud qui ne parle pas français et qui n'y connaît rien, bien entendu. [[User:Bill Thayer|Bill]] 00:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

== Minor Paris Edit, infobox ==

I left most everything you re-added to the Paris article save ''As a result of these tendencies, at the 1999 census only 18.5% of the inhabitants of the statistical metropolitan area of Paris lived in the city of Paris proper. '' - for the whys, I'm sure we both know and we don't have to go through it all again.

As for the infobox: I admire your creating and contributing infoboxes for all of France's major cities, but unfortunately you have used this to promote your 'metropolitan area==city' agenda, and this we have gone over thousands of times already. If you absolutely cannot do without speaking of this in some way, I suggest starting a 'Paris metropolitan area' article much like most other "(big city) metropolitan area" articles in existence. I do understand that this would be next to impossible to do in a credible way (anything outside of statitstics, that is!), and this for all the reasons I listed on the Paris Talk page. Speaking of that, have you gotten around to answering those questions yet? [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 22:48, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

==Image Tagging [[:Image:WuZetian.jpg]]==
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Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:WuZetian.jpg]]'''. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use {{tl|GFDL}} to release it under the [[GFDL]]. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]], and then use a tag such as {{tlp|fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use]]. See [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you. [[User:Jiang|Jiang]] 09:26, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


=="[[Countship]]" (sic)==
[[User:Fastifex]] is rapidly changing "county" to "countship", i.e. [[County of Foix]], at every appearance. This strikes me as a particularly foolish Wikipedianism. What do you think? --[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 14:03, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

== The infoboxes for French cities ==

I appreciate you've put a lot of effort into these infoboxes for Paris, Marseilles, Strasbourg etc, but each city having a separate template defeats the purpose of the template. The articles should use either the [[:Template:French commune]] infobox or perhaps a single infobox for the major cities such as Paris and Marseilles. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 01:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for responding to the above question. First of all lets be absolutely clear, I don't support the Promenader unquestioningly. I try my best to take a neutral look at things and if I am wrong I hold up my hands - we are all only human at the end of the day. As to the infobox issue, I agree it is a complex issue and needs some careful thought, so I am all ears and hands. On the Mumbai infobox are you referring to the area figure? [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 02:47, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I had a look at the Mumbai infobox and it makes complete sense to me to distinguish the city and the metropolis. I have corrected the figures on the Mumbai article and pointed out that the Municipal Corporation thinks it governs an area of 437.71 km² and 11 million people. It would be good to take your infobox idea as a model for the French cities [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 03:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
: I have read the above and replaced the original city/metro infobox until a new one is made. I'm not quite sure if this was the proper conclusion to your conversation but this is what I did. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 10:03, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
:: I have read your conversation with Green Giant with much attention - and I don't see much call for my allowing your last revert - but all the same. Still you confuse people with mixed ambiguities - and I'm almost sure the 'metropolis' GG speaks of above is in fact an agglomeration, not farmland. I suggest you ask him yourself. Anyhow, there's other things for you to answer to on the [[Talk:Paris]] page. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 21:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

== Infobox French Region changes ==

Hi, Hardouin. I recently made some changes to [[Template:Infobox French Région|this template]] to create links from the numbers of arrondissements, cantons and communes in each région to corresponding lists. I was trying to follow the model that is used in the [[Template:Infobox Department of France|département template]]. I notice that you seem to have reverted these changes without making any comments why. Do you have any particular reasons for your change, or would you mind if I reverted your changes? Regards, [[User:Kiwipete|Kiwipete]] 20:42, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

== Paris Area ==

I noticed that you were the original editor that put sq. miles and acres in the area section (Revision as of 20:24, July 14, 2005). I thought that the addition of acres was a little much; so I removed it. Believe me, I don't like to read articles that are in the metric system only, but too many additional conversions tend to take away from the flow. I thought I should let you know my reasoning because it looks as if you spent a lot of time editing the Paris article. [[User:MJCdetroit|MJCdetroit]] 13:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
:In response to your posting on my talk page: I understand your thinking and I thank you. However, in the U.S. acres are typically used to describe privately owned land or maybe parks (at least in my experience). Acres are not usually used to describe municipalities such as cities or towns (unless they are incredibly small; less than one square mile). For example, in the recent news story [http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheney13feb13,0,409654.story?coll=la-story-footer] where V.P. Dick Cheney shot a fellow hunter in the face, the ranch he was on was a 50,000 acre ranch (~78 sq. mi). Yet Crawford, Texas is described as being 0.9 sq. miles. Central Park in NYC is 843 acres and the property that we hunt on in northern Michigan is 600 acres. To put a French spin on this, the grounds of the Château de Versailles would be described in terms of acres, but the city of Versailles would be described in square miles. Hopefully that gives you a better understanding. [[User:MJCdetroit|MJCdetroit]] 19:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

== AU 2004 Estimates ==

Hello,

I asked you on the Paris talk page for a source for the 2004 Aire Urbaine estimation in your infobox - I wasn't able to find it anywhere, even on the INSEE site. Could you answer this please?

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 15:00, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

== About ThePromenader ==

:Hardouin, obviously ThePromenader believes that you and me is the same person. Can you explain me what have you done to make him think so, and could you please tell him that, well obviously we're not the same person.
:By the way, what do you think about my new arrangement of Paris Public Transports Infobox ? It seems a good consensus between your approach and the modifications made by the guy before you, no ? [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 18 february 2006 20:02 (CET)

== Image:Louis8-1.jpg listed for deletion ==

<div style="padding:5px; background-color:#E1F1DE"> An image or media file that you uploaded, [[:Image:Louis8-1.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion]]. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Idw --></div> [[User:Thuresson|Thuresson]] 15:04, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


==Image Tagging [[:Image:AlsLogo.png]]==

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== Gascony Map ==
Hi, I got your message and I changed the Gascony Map. It's here [https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/fay2/web/gasconymap2.PNG]. I haven't uploaded it yet, so let me know if you think it's ok or if it needs more adjusting. [[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 13:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

*Hi again, thanks for those links to maps. I combined all of them, my map, and your instructions and here's what I came up with: [https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/fay2/web/gasconymap2.PNG] Tell me how to improve it. If you think it's fine, let me know and I'll make a final version of it. Do you want the rivers labeled and do you want more cities labeled? [[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 22:04, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

*Sorry, wrong link above. The new map is here: [https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/fay2/web/gasconymap3.png] [[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 22:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


:Hi again, how's this: [[https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/fay2/web/gasconymap4.PNG]]. I think I made all of your changes.
::Sorry, I forgot to do this: [[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 19:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

:I think I have it finally, so I uploaded it
[[Image:Gasconymap.PNG]]

By the way, thanks for your help.
[[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 21:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

:I had problems like that with images before, if you push F5 or refresh, that forces the computer to reload the picture and the new one will show up, otherwise the computer is reading out of its memory. It's showing up as the new map on my end. Thanks again! [[User:Fay2|Fay2]] 23:05, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

==Fonts for Khmer, Thai, Sanskrit, etc==
Hardouin, I have a question about formatting and the use of the above scripts. I thought you might be able to answer it for me. How do you get the Khmer, Thai, Sanskrit, etc characters to appear in WP aritcles? I noticed you used .png image files for Khmer script, but seem to be able to type Sanskrit and Thai "letters" directly. How do you accomplish this? If you can, please answer at your convenience either here or on my talk page. Thanks.--[[User:WilliamThweatt|WilliamThweatt]] 19:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks for the quick reply. The "copy and paste" technique seems easiest, I can't believe it never occurred to me to try that. However, I guess I'm going to have to learn a little more about Unicode as well. Thanks again for the help.--[[User:WilliamThweatt|WilliamThweatt]] 00:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
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== Image source ==

Please see: [[Image talk:Portret na general Sharl djo Gol.jpg]]. Thank you, [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] 14:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

==Protection of the "[[Paris]]" article==
This article has been protected for over two weeks, and I think it may be time to move on and see if the participants can edit it cooperatively. As one of the editors involved in the dispute, how do you feel about this proposition? --[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]] 12:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC) ''(moved from talk page where I first put it by mistake)''
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== Puyi source? ==

Hi, you added (Nov -04) the posthumous and temple names for [[Puyi]], bestowed by his family in 2004. I'd like to find the source for that piece of info if you remember! [[User:Berox|Berox]] 13:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Peerage]] ==

hi, you proposed a move a while ago. It is being debated, however your input would be appreciated since you proposed it (otherwise it would be a bit of a waste of exercise). So please drop by. with kind regards... [[User:Gryffindor|<font color="red">Gryffindor</font>]] 10:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey Hardouin - I think I have to say that I agree with Nightstallion that there is no consensus for a move. As I suggested on the page, I think the best step at this point would be to work on creating an article about the peerage in general, perhaps in your user space, and then proposing the move again. I'd also suggest that we add at least a link to the French peerage to the top of the peerage article, for now. [[User:John Kenney|john k]] 18:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

== [[American English]] ==

*Hi Hardouin, I have noticed you edit many french articles in American English. As far as I can see there is a concensus where only articles relating to American matters are edited in American English as after discussions (Can't find them sorry, if you know, give us a link) it transpired that British English is used in the European Union, the Commonwealth and many a countries in the world whereas American English is only used in software writing and the USofA. It also transpired that British English is taught in France and it would be more approrpiate to use it in articles for say, French articles. I have reverted your edit on the [[Pontoise]] article (''see '''Transport'''''). I would also like to reduce the size of images in commune infoboxes as the said infoboxes are notoriously large. Regards, [[User:Captain scarlet|Captain scarlet]] 11:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

:I'm sorry, but as far as I know there is a consensus to use whatever English the editor wishes to use, except for those articles dealing with countries where British English spelling is used. It is frowned upon to change the spelling of editors who use American spelling, and personally I find particularly irritating the ayatollahs of British English, who seem to be spending their time reverting all American spellings on Wikipedia. FYI in French schools both American and British English spelling are accepted. As long as it's not French English spelling, the teacher is happy! And also, please consider that the majority of English speakers live in the US (not in the UK or its former colonies), so the highest likelihood is that a reader of Wikipedia (English version) will be American and used to American spelling. As for the infobox, the size is 300px, it was decided (not by me) a long time ago. If the infoboxes are too large, just use a higher resolution for your screen. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

*Hi. I do not agree with the first points you have made and will continue to restrict the use (sorry, usage) of English as opposed to American. Also commenting on my screen resolution is rather inappropriate, plus there's little more i can do to make it bigger. As much as you may find it irritating to see Transportation changed to Transport or Zs to Ss, it has been remarked that French articles should be edited in English rather than American, this is true on En:Wikipedia as well as Fr:Wikipedia where ''many'' Wikipedians frown the use of American altogether. Kind Regards, [[User:Captain scarlet|Captain scarlet]] 13:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

:You can find the official policy here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style]. I quote:
:"In June 2005, the Arbitration Committee ruled that, when either of two styles is acceptable, it is inappropriate for a Wikipedia editor to change from one style to another unless there is some substantial reason for the change. For example, with respect to British spelling as opposed to American spelling, it would only be acceptable to change from American spelling to British spelling if the article concerned a British topic. Revert warring over optional styles is unacceptable; if the article uses colour rather than color, it would be wrong to switch simply to change styles, although editors should ensure that articles are internally consistent. If in doubt, defer to the style used by the first major contributor."
:Pontoise (or any other French commune) is not a British topic, so your change from American spelling to British spelling is not acceptable as per the official policy. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

*Should the article then be copied to a new english article ? One in En:Wikipedia and how's about Us:Wikipedias... Good day ! —[[User:Captain scarlet|Captain scarlet]] 13:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

== French GDP ==

Hi. I noticed you changed the France facts table to show Nominal GDP values. This seems to go against [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries]], which suggests using PPP GDP. Standardising the type of GDP shown obviously allows for a more easier comparison to be made between countries. Kind regards. [[User:Campdavid|Campdavid]] 23:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

== French Cities Infobox ==

Hi. I've noticed your adding your new template to many French cities - you might as well stop until we reach consensus about it on the Paris page. You can't just go imposing your will like that in total disregard above all other acivity in the same direction - do not ignore preceding propositions, questions and ongoing discussions on the same subject you are treating please, and have some respect for others. Thanks.

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 09:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

==Transilien network==

Hi Hardouin, I just send you an e-mail to inform you pages about Transilien networks are moving on, which I guess is a good news to you as you've been the first to collaborate to them. Well, the little trick is that we have a debate with [[User:Captain scarlet|Captain scarlet]] and [[User:Bz2|Bz2]] in how to name those pages. I was personally inclined to call them ''Transilien Paris-###'' as it's the case on French pages, but obviously others believe ''Réseau ###'' is better. I would be pleased to have your opinion about it. After several changes of names, I've decided to start a discussion on this page : [[Talk:Réseau Nord]]. Feel free to join. [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 21:36 22 March 2006 (CET).

: I noticed you were really interested about Paris agglomeration and urbanism in general. As such, I would be glad if you'd meet us in two specific forums : The first one is [http://www.paris-skyscrapers.com/forum/index.php Paris-Skyscrapers], it's french speaking and most of the urban questions, especially related to Paris, are treated there ; the second one is [http://www.skyscrapercity.com Skyscrapercity] well, it's about an international version of the other website. Hope I'll see you soon there, those forums are very interesting. By the way, despite having both "skyscrapers" in their title, we don't only talk about towers there. :-) [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 01:57 24 March 2006 (CET).

:: Please refrain form deleting SNCF Ile de France from the Paris public transport template. You have not accepted any concession to create an accurate scheme of articles so you had better accept this one. I stand my ground and will continue to add SNCF Ile de France for as long as it takes for it to remain there. A copy of this discussion will be saved on my discussion page. Regards, [[User:Captain scarlet|Captain Scarlet]] 18:00 24 March 2006 (GMT).

== Spelling of French Polynesian names ==

Mind checking some of the French Polynesian pages edited by [[Special:Contributions/Tauʻolunga|Tauʻolunga]]? That link is his contribution list. He is the one who introduced the Okina into French Polynesian articles. A discussion on the matter was had at [[Talk:Tahitian language]] and I would certainly appreciate your input there. [[User:Jade Knight|The Jade Knight]] 23:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

==Subdivisions of New Caledonia==
Hello Hardouin; I cannot thank you enough for your substantial contributions to the [[subdivisions of New Caledonia]] series. Keep those tables and infoboxes coming! ;) Concerning nomenclature, my argument for excluding the [[definite article]]s in the names ''(Le) Mont-Dore'' and ''(L')Île-des-Pins'' is that English language listings will generally consider these (p)articles redundant and confusing. The exception to this rule is La Foa, which is named after '''<u>the</u>''' Foa, a small river on the east coast of the main island. Deciding on whether to include definite articles in [[placename]] listings is not always straight-forward, but I think that as a general rule of thumb, the [[WP:MOS|preferred style]] is to use articles in the context of a sentence, but not in a list. Hence: ''Schiphol is located in '''<u>the</u>''' Netherlands'', but ''[4th place]: Netherlands''. Do you see my point? ''<font color="#990011">//</font> [[User:Big Adamsky|Big Adamsky]]''''' <font color="#990011"> • </font>'''<small>[[User talk:Big Adamsky|BA's talk page]]</small> 14:12, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

:Perhaps you are right about the inclusion definite articles according to the rules of the [[French alphabet]]. However, I was explicitly not referring to any "personal decisions" as you seem to think. I was trying to figure out the proper way of [[collating|alphabetizing]] words in a list, ''not'' how to use a name in a sentence. Here are some examples of placenames that may or may not include the grammatical article: [[Gudbrandsdalen|Gudbrandsdal'''en''']], [[the Gambia|'''the''' Gambia]], [[the Hague|'''the''' Hague]], [[La Rioja|'''La''' Rioja]], [[Rondane|Rond'''ane''']], [[La Jolla|'''La''' Jolla]]. ''<font color="#990011">//</font> [[User:Big Adamsky|Big Adamsky]]''''' <font color="#990011"> • </font>'''<small>[[User talk:Big Adamsky|BA's talk page]]</small> 12:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

== Paris Intro ==

If you have improvements to make in the Intro, please discuss them on the Talk page of [[Paris]]. You completely reverted my changes to the intro without one word as to why. -- [[User:Gnetwerker|Gnetwerker]] 17:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that you read [[WP:LEAD]]. Grouping those two facts does not add to the accessability and understanding of the intro to the average reader. You also did much more than grouping those things -- you moved several other sentences around, essentially taking the lead back to its (IMO) confusing former state, the apparent result of the ongoing edit war. -- [[User:Gnetwerker|Gnetwerker]] 18:20, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

You said ''"Check Rome or Madrid. Administrative infos are always grouped at the beginning of the intro."'' -- quite the contrary, those pages (more so [[Rome]]) are models of clarity compared to the mess that was Paris. But in any case this is not a trend -- look at [[New York City]] and [[London]] -- these are what I looked at while rewriting Paris. Please discuss on Talk page. -- [[User:Gnetwerker|Gnetwerker]] 18:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I had no intention of re-adding the Hilter photo -- if I did it inadvertently, I will remove it. While your edit may be consistent with Rome, because of the complexity of the Paris nomenclature, it confuses the opening sentences of the lead. Besides, [[WP:LEAD]] is the guide here, not [[Rome]]. The ranking, as you point out, is in the body, so doesn't need to be run in the lead, which already says Paris is a leading city. -- [[User:Gnetwerker|Gnetwerker]] 19:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Happy to re-add leading city in a way that doesn't screw up the lead, and the dates for pop numbers are spelled out in detail below -- the intro should contain the most recent dates, and they can be updated regularly since Wikipedia is not paper. -- [[User:Gnetwerker|Gnetwerker]] 19:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


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== IDF and Auvergne logos ==

Ok, I've done what I could about those logos. The IDF logo has been re-uploaded from your previous version, however, I couldn't do the same for the Auvergne logo as it was a .png file and I know how to add transparency only with .gif file. As a result, I have upload it in using another name : [[:Image:Auvergne logo.gif]]. It would probably be good to delete your png version. [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 14:04 6 April 2006 (UTC)

== Spatial organization of the Paris economy ==

Hi Hardouin, I just wanted to congratulate you for your edits about the spatial organization of the Paris economy. It's very well-organized and very well written. Actually, it has raised a bit my curiosity, I wondered in which area you were living. If I ask so, it's simply because the area where we live is actually interesting to better understand our perspective on urban things. [[User:Metropolitan|Metropolitan]] 14:27 7 April 2006.
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==Maps of Caledonian communes==
Hello. You know what, I have many many maps of New Caledonia and her communes on my computer, but since I am not the copyright holder I am barred from uploading these images. :( I want to see as many articles as possible contain maps to show location, distance or extent, but as yet I, too, lack the technological means to create maps myself. <small>'''[[User:Big Adamsky|BigAdamsky]]</small><u><font color="#990011">|</font><small>[[User talk:Big Adamsky|'''TALK''']]</small><font color="#990011">|</font><small>[[Special:Contributions/Big Adamsky|'''EDITS''']]</small><font color="#990011">|'''</font></u> 13:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC) PS: Do you know whether the South Province has its administrative headquearters in Nouméa or La Foa? When I was there, no one was sure about anything...

== [[:Image:EiffelLaDefense3.jpg]] ==

Just wanted to say, I like the new Eiffel tower photo on the Paris page. :) [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 03:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


==Image Tagging [[:Image:TempGasc.PNG]]==

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== french population ==

Hi Hardouin,

I reverted your recent changes to French in the list of languages. There were a couple problems with it, though we might want to restore some things:
#French does not appear to be official in the new states you added
#The list is by nation-state, not by territory as you had it
#The total number of speakers you give appears to be everyone who has studied French, not those who use it for daily communication
#The number of native speakers is wildly different from other sources, and no refs are given in the article for verification. The article appears to be an attempt to make French look as important as possible rather than give a straight-forward account. Not saying it's wrong, but we'd need to account for the discrepency.
[[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] 12:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
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== [[Paris]] ==

Just wanted to say I converted that link about "Lutèce" to a proper reference. It's an excellent link because the paper has a solid reputation and it will help the article to reduce the overall proportion of references that are from INSEE. So thanks for finding it.
By the way, please feel free to suggest alternatives to the proposed infobox as your views would be very valuable. Also, I know you and others have reservations about my proposed changes towards featured article but you'll note I haven't implemented anything because I'd like more input from you about what improvements could be made. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 00:56, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
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== The 'Paris' points you missed ==

Actually, what is going on here is not 'tricks': is called 'building consensus'. The consensus of two that I was speaking of was only on the point of the infobox thinning ''in the present discussion alone'' - I could count the attempts by myself, [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] and [[User:Stevage|Stevage]] to thin things down, all of these reverted by you, but we are all quite aware of these so I but give them mention in our discussion. I did not count [[User:Capitan Scarlet|Capitan Scarlet]] vote in anything thus far - but even before this, consensus was already more than two across several points quite clearly outlined in the discussion.

I'm not angry at your leaving rather misleading attempts at denigration of myself on other people's talk pages, but I don't really see the point in it. I think it would be better for the sake of the overall editing atmosphere here that you stick to parlaying facts, and that you show some respect for other contributor's wish to do so.

I honestly do admire the seeming wealth/resources of your knowledge, and think that you really can/do contribute a lot to Wiki, but for readers and contributors alike to fully appreciate your talents, you must work towards the common goal that is making real and referenced information available and accessible (in all senses of the term) to the greatest possible public. It is the basic facts we must relate first, and then and only then can we continue onwards towards other 'points of view' - but even these must be referenceable. It is only natural that with time and more knowledgable contributors that the article fall into this line - it would be great if, instead of resisting all movement in this direction, that you put your talents to use and help us attain this goal.

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 22:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

== in answer to your message ==

I don't really understand your aggressive attitude. The only person I could be certain of hearing from about the Paris article is you. Call Metroplolitan an 'oubli'. As for the rest and the tone of all this, I find it to be quite overheated, provocating and quite immature - if you are indeed a partisan of reason, I suggest you find another approach. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

== Work together ==

I can understand you are upset because you feel you were being excluded from the infobox discussion. However, you are aware now that the discussion is taking place and the last thing that is needed is to delete talkpage messages. Look at it this way - at least Promenader didn't simply insert his version of the infobox, he put it in the most logical place - [[Talk:Paris]]. It isn't difficult to cooperate with each other and put this tension behind us. If one of us suggests some changes to the article, it is not because we are trying to be malicious but because we think it will help the article. If you disagree with a suggestion it isn't difficult to be civil instead of accusing people of "posting self-righteous messages". Try to remain calm even if you feel someone is goading provocatively. Your last edit to the article was an excellent move towards making Paris a more comprehensive article. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 00:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

:I can see what you mean by the size of communes not representing what people understand by a city. I also entirely sympathise that the tension on the Paris talkpage can seem directed against you. However, despite any past differences, I would rather that you continued to contribute and not feel constantly under attack. So here is my suggestion. In the case of Paris, shouldn't the article be from the viewpoint of Paris commune/departement with the metropolitan area covered in [[Paris metropolitan area]]. Obviously the commune of Paris doesn't exist in a vacuum so there have to be references to the metropolitan area in the [[Paris]] article. What if we create metropolitan area articles for places such as Lyon and Marseille and then took the existing Large French Cities infobox and perhaps moved the metropolitan area data to a new infobox but with a row linking to the metropolitan area in the [[Paris]], [[Marseilles]] and [[Lyon]] infobox just below the region row? That way the metropolitan situation in each city could get better coverage and the infobox would be reduced in length. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 00:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

==Stub articles about French Polynesian geography==
Hi hardouin - please, when you are stubbing articles relating to French Polynesian geography - ''only'' use {{tl|FrenchPolynesia-geo-stub}}. That will automatically put the article into a subcategory of those marked with {{tl|France-geo-stub}} and {{tl|Oceania-geo-stub}}, so there is no need to add those templates as well! Cheers, [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small><font color="#008822">[[User_talk:Grutness|wha?]]</font></small>'' 08:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
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== Your comments on [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant's]] Talk page ==

I cannot but specluate on what your real motives are, but here you have gone too far. Nowhere anywhere have I ever criticized you for anything other than the quality of what you write and how you write it - yet your only answer to any of this has personal attacks that have nothing to do with any edit. To insinuate that I am some sort of hacker using (insinuatively) illegal means to pry into the lives of others - what sort of nonsense is this? What would be my goal in doing such a thing?

You obviously give Wiki too much importance as a reflection of your own personna - and forget that for others it is not the same. Please desist with your constant personal harassment and inventive accusations - only in discussing fact can we ever hope to work together. Thank you.

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 13:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

:If you're ashamed of your behavior, then change it, instead of lashing out at people who point out that behavior. I, for one, do not stalk other users as you have done repeatedly in the previous months. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
==License tagging for Image:Cergy Map.jpg==
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== Paris infobox ==

: Here's the message I left on every talkpage containing the 'Large French Cities' infobox:
: As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) [[Talk:Paris#Infobox_Streamlining|here]] - all comments welcome. -- [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 07:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
==License tagging for Image:Legend map RER.jpg==
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==Saints Wikiproject==
==Saints Wikiproject==
I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Saints#Participants|WikiProject Saints]]. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.
I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Saints#Participants|WikiProject Saints]]. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.
Line 989: Line 17:
Thanks!
Thanks!
--[[User:Evrik|evrik]] 16:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
--[[User:Evrik|evrik]] 16:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

== Paris Monge ==

Again you've gone to new lows and crossed a new line. I don't know whose talk page you had to read to dig up that little info, but placing it in an article discussion for all to see is going more than a bit far. Only someone actually tracking me could find that sort of information, but now it is open for any article passerby to see. Nor do I see how you could make an excuse for even mentioning it - are there hyphens in 'Place Monge'? You were telling me 'where' to 'pay attention'? Your intent was obvious, so again I must ask you to desist from engaging in a less than desirable and quite immature behaviour that can bring no good to Wiki. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 21:20, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
:Paranoia again? You're the one publicly disclosing your life, your profession, you whereabouts to everybody. And now you say you want everything to remain private? Again you're not being very logical. If you don't want people to know anything about you, then don't say anything in the first place. But then, we both know that your baseless accusation is just motivated by anger after I revealed your stalking of [[User:Metropolitan]]. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 11:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I divulge what personal info I want to who I please, and you won't see my address on my personal page or in any article. To find this sort of information one has to a) know me b) take an active interest in my doings and c) read every post to every article and every user page I make. And you're calling me a stalker?

:: Also, let me remind you that it is your sock-puppetry that created circumstances propitious to doubt about an eventual repetition of the same behaviour. Even in light of this I offered an apology to Metropolitan - what have you done of the sort? [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 13:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:::a- I have never created sock-puppets, and you have never offered an apology to me.
:::b- You talked about your location on Gnetwerker's talk page, and I was reading this talk page because I was exchanging messages with this user. Now stop your baseless accusations. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:::: Please don't make your case worse for yourself - let me remind you that I am not alone as witness to your behaviour. My 'accusations', first off, are constatations, and second, I would not forward them without good reason. Now, if you please, I have work to do. Good day. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 13:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::You claim things without proof. And when your accusations don't turn out the way you wanted, you say you have better things to do and you quit. Please, be a bit more mature. Good day to you too. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::: You were quite silly that 'puppet' day, and the proof I posted with every turn of events - you are also quite silly to forward a denial, especially after all was practically forgotten and forgiven. Absolutely nothing has 'turned out' at all today - just more reams of text to no discernable goal nor conclusion.

:::::: I suggest that you hold with your personal affrontery. I do have a weakness in my overwhelming urge to clarify false allusions and accusations, so it would be best for both our time's sake that you bring an end to these. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 14:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I don't think that referring to people's disagreement with you as "personal affrontery" helps bolster your case. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 14:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


Disagreement on what? You talk little of fact, mostly vague insinuations dictatively alluding to things I 'do' and what I 'impose' and what I 'try' and what my 'vision' is - without ever speaking clearly of anything at all! I even have to try to discern what point you trying to make before answering you - and still manage to bring out the basic question in it all - that you somehow always avoid answering. So enough of this roundabout merry-go-round - unless you want to answer clearly what's asked of you, vague exchanges such as these are a big waste of everyone's reading time. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 17:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

== Removal of Talk-Page Messages ==
-
- There is absolutely no call for the removal of talk-page messages, especially when they are warnings. Insinuate with any adjective you like, but unless they are a personal attack their removal is unwarrented. Please find the original message again below, as it will be needed soon - I have begun a complaint proceedings against you and a documented warning on your user page is needed for that. This is it:
-
- :''No more games. You have held reign with your opinons over pages of your choice thanks to the ignorance of other contributors, and enforced your unsolicited impositions in ignorance of all discussion and consensus (infoboxes being only the latest example) with unwarrented reverts - enough. Wiki is not your personal soapbox for imposing your personal opinions upon the unsuspecting, and this without any clear justification or direct citation whatsoever, as the patent truth. In my work upon the other French city pages I see that Paris is only the beginning of the unreferencable mess you've made - this must end. From now I will do everything within my power to bring an end your strictly personal, antisocial and anti-wiki nonsense. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 19:38, 15 May 2006 (UTC)''
-
- This is your third reminder. You have already shown enough unreasonable behavior for one night. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 00:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

==Give yourself a break==
First of all, remember that removing messages, even on your own talkpage, is tantamount to vandalism so just leave the messages there until archiving time. Secondly, go get some sleep and come back refreshed with one proviso. This is just an encyclopedia article we are talking about, not life and death situations. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 01:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
:I think you could tell exactly the same thing to Promenader. The guy needs to take a break and cool down a bit. Why is it that I edit Wikipedia today after a one week absence and within minutes of my edits I receive an incendiary message from this guy on my talk page? Then I find myself the subject of a complaint filed by the same guy, using all sorts of base arguments, including one patent lie(!), and absolutely no attention is given by this guy to the very serious points I raise at [[Talk:Paris]]. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 01:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
::Read Promenader's talkpage - I posted a similar message to him. I symptathise that it isn't pleasant to be the subject of a complaint, but arguing in the early hours of the morning won't solve anything. I think the solution to this problem is to calmly examine where the differences lie and if they cannot be resolved by mutual discussion, then we must resort to directing questions at official sources (either by searching websites/books or sending emails). Personally, I am so caught up with work that I barely have any time free until the weekend. However, I will try to see if we can't all agree on some things. In the meantime just relax, and take this all in your stride. [[User:Green Giant|Green Giant]] 02:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
:::This can fully wait until the week-end, don't worry. I, like you, have lots of other things to do during the week. Plus I have so many projects of articles to add information to (things totally different from Paris), and this Paris controversy has totally diverted me from my other projects. About Paris, I think we need third party mediation. Unfortunately there aren't that many users around that have good knowledge of French administration and statistics. The most knowlegeable user around that I know of is [[User:Metropolitan]]. From his edits and messages I gather he is a Frenchman, and I also realised he has quite good knowledge of French administrative nitty-gritties and demographics issues. Unfortunately, I am not sure that Promenader would accept Metropolitan as a mediator, or that Metropolitan would accept being a mediator, for that matter. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 02:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

== User notice: temporary 3RR block ==

====Regarding reversions[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=paris,_etc_etc&action=history] made on [[May 16]] [[2006]] ([[UTC]]) to [[paris, etc etc]]==== [[Image:Octagon-warning.png|left|30px| ]]You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]]. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future. <!-- Template:3RR3 --> The duration of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User:Hardouin&action=edit&section=new block] is 24 hours. [[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 18:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

== Talk Page Tour ==

I've left messages on all the User talkpages that you've just visited, and saw your leavings there in my Watchlist. I won't be answering you in any of these places.

In your tour you insinuate much and put many words in my mouth; some of what you had to say - like your having left "proof" of the INSEE's "preference" for the AU when speaking of cities when, verified, it was a selective nothing of the kind - was frankly untrue, but in all, all of your posts had little to none had anything to do with fact. You also describe my "subtle knowledge of all Wiki rules" that somehow insinuates that I manipulated Wiki into banning you: that don't stand, man. You started an edit war, you took it across the [[WP:3RR]] line. End of story. This is far from the first time that you've done this in the almost year since I've known you, yet this is the first time I've reported you.

Even through your reams of postings you were unable to find anything 'wrong' with the new infobox - you even invented a few, like your "Mantes-la-Jolie" pointer "error" - not only is it an unanswerable fabrication of an argument: this will be the third time that I tell you that the point is moved by changing a number in the template data, so big deal. Again, I don't think you've even ''looked'' at the template.

I am sorry that you did not think to get into the discussion until you realised that we had already reached consensus - it has been a rare thing on the Paris page, I know. Perhaps in the future you will be more sociable and willing to discuss 'real' French fact with the ignorant fools we English Wikipedians are - and show us where to read the error of our ways. If not, you can't very well expect anyone to simply take your superior knowledge for granted on your explanations of how we should read between the lines you choose to show us - when you do show anything at all. As for your accusing we other users of not being "specialised" - what do you mean exactly, and who is to decide who qualifies? By stating this you would insinuate yourself, and this is quite... well, it depends on how you look at it.

To sum up: If you would like to prove the facutal wrong of things, than you will have to do so, and do so clearly. That aside, 'amount of work' is not an argument as it does not reflect fact, quality or readability; 'amount of time it stayed' is not an argument either for exactly the same reason. 'Other infoboxes' is not an argument either, as 'apple' cities cannot be made to look like 'orange' ones - and this one is even funny because there was no city infobox anywhere else on Wiki like yours! Lastly, your commenting on my 'views' of the 'unimportance' and 'irrelevence' of the AU - when I said nothing of the kind - really amount to nothing, because the AU info is there, and it is even I who defended it. Also on this note: I wouldn't call the differnces between the French UU and AU 'subtle'. Lastly, as I've already shown you twice before: if we were to speak of cities according to the INSEE, there would be only UU info - check "[http://www.insee.fr/fr/insee_regions/idf/zoom/chif_cles/chiffres_cles.htm Zoom sur un Territoire] - and if it weren't for the narrow consensus of two to one thanks to my intervention, there would be no UU or AU info at all. So, if anything, you should see that we a) have eliminated all that was complained about in the infobox and b) tried all the same to make everyone, even you, happy. Yet still you complain, and that in not in the most 'overhanded' of ways!

I could forgive and forget everything should you decide to use your knowledge towards fact and quality, but for now it seems that you use it as an 'upper hand' defense to keep others from impeding on your vision of how things should be. This would be fine would you be able to provide proof to your views, but the problem is that your propos for Paris is unlke anything seen anywhere else, and as reference you have been unable to provide anything more than an obscure study that speaks - and then, only hypothetically - of a city as you do! What are we, I, to think of this, especially when you defend it so vehemently - with an often purely personal propos that has little to do with fact or reason?

Even after all this, I would respect you even more would you decide to work towards our common goal - for sure your knowledge is of value here! But you must understand that Wiki is a place where we make knowledge available to others, it is not a repository where we leave a reflection of ourselves.

All this said, good night.

[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 01:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
==Image Tagging for [[:Image:Mencius1.jpg]]==
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== Drapeau de Rhône-Alpes ==

Salut, c'est quoi l'histoire avec [[:Image:RA flag.GIF]]? C'est le nouveau drapeau de Rhône-Alpes? Je l'ai pas encore vu à l'exterieur, mais je vois que le [site officiel http://www.cr-rhone-alpes.fr/index.cfm] l'utilise donc je te crois. Tu sais depuis quand l'ancien (avec les poteaux colorés penchants) est remplacé? [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 18:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

==RfA Notification==
Hello! I noticed that you have interacted with [[User:MJCdetroit]] who is currently undergoing an [[wp:rfa|RfA]] and thought that you might be interested in participating at [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MJCdetroit]]. You have received this message without the endorsement of the candidate involved, and this is not a solicitation of support, it is only an effort to make RfA discussions better (for more information see [[user:ShortJason/Publicity]]). Thank you in advance for your participation. [[User:ShortJason|ShortJason]] 22:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

== Templates for prefectures ==

You're probably right about Paris/Ile de France, but IMHO they help a lot for other cities to draw them out of the mass of the 36,000 other communes. Personally I find it interesting navigating around the préfectures de région - for example, [[Châlons-en-Champagne]] is really undeveloped for such an administratively important city. I don't think navigating by préfecture is too arbitrary either - the 7 préfectures of Rhône-Alpes really are the most important cities in the region, afaik (although no one seems to have heard of [[Privas]]). [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 12:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

==Toronto population, CMAs and CSAs==
Hi. I just reverted your changes to the [[Toronto]] and [[Greater Toronto Area]] articles. There has been discussion about the population figures, and the comparisons to American CSA and MSA numbers on the respective talk page. Could you discuss your reasons for making these changes on the talk page, especially highlighting how you equate the Canadian CMA and American CSA figures. Thanks. <font color="#8b4513">[[User:Mindmatrix|Mind]]</font><font color="#ee8811">[[User_talk:Mindmatrix|matrix]]</font> 21:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
:Regarding your most recent [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toronto&curid=64646&diff=59194770&oldid=59175112 change] - the comparison you removed was between cities as defined by their core populations. It's the only one of the bunch that has any validity, since it encompasses the population of each city within their defined city limits (the city proper, as you wrote). In your summary, you wrote: ''Comparing administrative municipalities population is extremely misleading.'' I don't think you interpreted the footnote correctly - "administrative" refers to the scope of the city as I just defined above. Anyway, a number of editors have worked diligently to verify this information by discussing it on the [[Talk:Toronto|talk page]]; please consider contributing to that discussion before making changes. Since the article is about the city, and not the urban areas (GTA, or Toronto CMA, or Golden Horseshoe), the primary comparison is between core city populations. What do you find misleading about that? <font color="#8b4513">[[User:Mindmatrix|Mind]]</font><font color="#ee8811">[[User_talk:Mindmatrix|matrix]]</font> 00:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
:BTW: instead of simply removing material that is unreferenced, you can slap on a {{tl|fact}} template, and see if anybody adds information; if not, you can come back to it after a week or so and delete the offending material. <font color="#8b4513">[[User:Mindmatrix|Mind]]</font><font color="#ee8811">[[User_talk:Mindmatrix|matrix]]</font> 01:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

:By the way, thanks for the clarification on the talk pages. I was rather stern with my messages, primarily because these articles have received numerous edits regarding population, rankings etc., often with no supporting proof or discussion. I appreciate the link to Geopolis - it looks promising. <font color="#8b4513">[[User:Mindmatrix|Mind]]</font><font color="#ee8811">[[User_talk:Mindmatrix|matrix]]</font> 02:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source of Abidjan Logo ==

Hello Hardouin
I would like to use the image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbidjanLogo.gif on the de:wiki, but unfortunately, they question about © seems not to be clear, so I cannot move it to the commons. In Switzerland, this coat of arms are free. Could you precise the rights please? Thank you.
[[de:User:Eruedin|etienne]] 2:04 01 jun 2006

:Thank you Hardouin. The link to the termes and rules there is broken. I wrote to the chancelery. If they alowed the use of coats of arms (in general) it's better, I think. See en:Image_talk:AbidjanLogo.gif --[[de:User:Eruedin|Etienne]] 00:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

==Image Tagging [[:Image:QUcoat1.gif]]==

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|-
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| <center><big>This media may be '''deleted'''.</big>
</center>
|}

Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:QUcoat1.gif]]'''. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{tl|GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the [[GFDL]]. If you believe the media meets the criteria at [[Wikipedia:Fair use]], use a tag such as {{tlp|fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use]]. See [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. -[[User:SCEhardt|<font color="blue">SCEhard</font>]][[User talk:SCEhardt|<font color="#3D9140"><b>T</b></font>]] 13:19, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

== Insults in Comments ==

...Would you hold these, please? These don't make you look very good as a Wikipedian and are hardly a replacement for fact. Concerning the target for this, it was the best way I could find to point out the area of 'untruth' without calling you outright a liar. I understand your misgivings and even the reasons behind your point of view but we are not here to create new realities around ourselves. Please remain civil and stick to fact. Thank you. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 16:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
:Beg your pardon? What are you talking about? You're always making accusations and polluting my talk page with aggressive messages. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 01:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
::<tt>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 17:31:52 </tt>[[Talk:List of tallest structures in Paris]] . . [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] ([[User_talk:Hardouin|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Hardouin|contribs]]) <span class="comment">(childish Promenader editing other people's messages)</span>

::[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 07:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::You edit people's messages on a discussion page. That's the most childish thing I have ever seen. Discussion pages are here for people to express their opinions, not for you to correct and edit other people's opinions. Simply incredible! [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 11:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

:::: Inserting a {{fact}} tag next to the fallacious claim indicated in the answer below? If you'd rather I could have just called the phrase what it was, but that wouldn't be very Wiki. Stop with the insinuations please; none of this is a replacement for fact. Thanks again. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 14:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::Leave it, you're making a fool of yourself. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 16:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


'''. . [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] ([[User_talk:Hardouin|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Hardouin|contribs]]) <span class="comment">(Sorry, but you're not going to succeed with your bullying attitude here.)</span>'''

Hi again. Will you stop please? I edit a page, you follow and revert with insults, and you call me the "bully". If it will waylay the revert war you seem intent on creating, you can have your 'Metropolitan irrelevence', but I am dismayed that you are editing out of pride rather than fact and reason. Whatever - if you place pride over quality, you win. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 13:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
:''C'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité''. Promenader, you're making a fool of yourself again. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 13:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

==WP:3RR==

Hi, you have been blocked from editing for breaching [[WP:3RR]]. Please be more careful in the future. Thanks. [[User:El C|El_C]] 02:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
"unblock|El_C blocked me based on [[User:ThePromenader]]'s claim that I reverted him more than three times. Not only I wasn't given the opportunity to defend myself (ever heard of the right of defense?), but I also believe El_C did not properly check the matter. Before blocking me, he should have read [[Talk:Île-de-France (région)]] where I explained what was wrong with ThePromenader's edit. He should also have read [[Talk:List of tallest structures in Paris]] to better understand the matter. Basically ThePromenader argues personal point of views about Paris and the Paris Region, and despite being called wrong by both [[User:Metropolitan]] and I, he persists in holding his POV and imposing it on Paris related articles. I insist we are already two users who have told him that his views are not correct (actually we are even three if you add [[User:Pedro carras]] who also disagreed with ThePromenader at [[Talk:Paris]]). What's particularly wicked here is that ThePromenader is using the 3RR noticeboard to settle accounts with me in relation with the three of us opposing his personal views, which is a complete abuse of the 3RR noticeboard. Please don't hesitate to ask Metropolitan and Pedro caras about the matter.

'''Comment''' - No matter the degree of conflict between editors, it can be settled in an instant by providing references and proof; when a contributor shows that he feels unobligated to do this, and becomes frankly insulting when not taken at his word and asked to provide written reference, this of course raises temperatures. When a contributor promotes an agenda that counters all reference works - when proven of course throws makes one question the validity of his other edits - which again only serves to raise temperatures when the same turns to reverting, as it seems his reasons for doing so are unfounded by fact or proof. Yet no matter how high temperatures become, there are certain rules here designed in the interest of preserving editing atmosphere that we just don't break. I have broken the [[WP:3RR]] rule once before with [[User:Hardouin]], and I promised that I would not do so again - so of course I ask the same of he.

As for the "other arguments on other pages" included in the box above: Not only are they irrelevent to [[WP:3RR]], but baseless. [[User:Hardouin]], if pressured to actually discuss article content (usually after his reverting), is capable of ignoring the existence of all reliable reference - maps, encyclopedias, government organisations and their websites - in favour of his own affirmations presented as fact and attempts at 'comparative reasoning' - two things quite unusable on wiki - and declaring himself 'right' and others 'wrong'. When presented with fact I am only too pleased to consider an issue closed (take, for example, the very recent [[Talk:Paris#Education_Section_II|Paris Eductation discussion]]), but when I read "La Défense is in Paris," a declaration flagrantly untrue, it is only normal that I question it and, unfortunately, question most everything forwarded by the same author. The [[Talk:Paris#Education_Section_II|Paris Eductation discussion]] is again a good example - I paid an overparticular attention to the where and what of evidence forwarded, as the phrase in question originated from the same author as the above declaration. This does not help at all the editing atmosphere. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 07:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

:If you dispute the 3RR report, you are free to provide [[diff|evidence]] to the contrary. If there is one (or more) users who dispute ThePromenader's version, s/he can be easily outreverted, yet this did not happen; and again, nor does the unblock disputes the 3RR claim itself in a substantive, clear, and well-document manner which is likely to meet with more consideration. Thanks. [[User:El C|El_C]] 07:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

:: "Right of defense" - please see [[WP:NOT|wikipedia is not a system of law]], also please see [[WP:3RR]] your defense above appears to be based on being "right", [[WP:3RR]] has a few exceptions your reason is not one of them. --[[User:Pgk|pgk]]<sup>(<font color="mediumseagreen">[[User_talk:Pgk|talk]]</font>)</sup> 07:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Having just checked your link, it says nowhere that Wikipedia is not a system of law. Not a single reference to this. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 10:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)



== Image:ShiHuangDi1.jpg listed for deletion ==

<div style="padding:5px; background-color:#E1F1DE"> An image or media file that you uploaded, [[:Image:ShiHuangDi1.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion#Image:ShiHuangDi1.jpg|Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion]]. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. [[User:Silversmith|<font color="A29EBA">'''Silversmith''']]</font> <small> [[User Talk:Silversmith|Hewwo]]</small> 12:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)<!-- Template:Idw --></div>
:There are a few more images like it that I want to delete too. [[User:Silversmith|<font color="A29EBA">'''Silversmith''']]</font> <small> [[User Talk:Silversmith|Hewwo]]</small> 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Île-de-France_%28région%29#.C3.8Ele-de-France_and_the_metropolitan_area_of_Paris|Île-de-France_and_the_metropolitan_area_of_Paris]] ==

Hi. I took the time to leave a full answer to your allegations in the [[Talk:Île-de-France_%28région%29#.C3.8Ele-de-France_and_the_metropolitan_area_of_Paris|Île-de-France_and_the_metropolitan_area_of_Paris]] of the [[Talk:Île-de-France_%28région%29|Île-de-France (région) talk page]]. Take the time to answer reasonably please, with references to your claims. This concerns only your questionable allegations - no-one is arguing that the IDF and MA are similar in size, but your comparison between these in the introduction is of no informative value at all; it is even senseless, and I have very clearly outlined why. If you like I can ask for an outside opinion on this - as I don't have time for revert wars. Thank you. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 16:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

: One last note: We both know full well that "agglomératioin Parisienne" equates to neither "aire urbaine" nor "Île-de-France", and I don't know why you're wasting your time with this outrageous claim. You'd do well to provide [http://www.insee.fr/fr/nom_def_met/definitions/html/accueil.htm referenced examples] if you intend to continue, otherwise you'll just be wasting everyone else's time. Thanks. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 20:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

== The harassment, although amusing, must end. ==

Look at your contributions page, then look at mine - this does not make the following an accusation, it ''proves'' it. You have not even worked on another ''section'' of an article than the ones I have contributed to over the last days - you have, without exception, trounced or reverted most every contirbution I have made over the past week. It is quite obvious that you are stalking me with purposeful intent - I would like you to stop. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 23:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
:Promenader is getting hot-tempered again. Answered at [[User talk:El C]]. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 00:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
:: Hot-tempered? No, tired - but that I can do something about. You must keep my contributions page bookmarked - how about leaving El_C's talkpage alone? I don't mind if you sully mine. You've given us quite a show tonight - goodnight. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 00:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Once more, ''c'est l'hôpital qui se moque de la charité''. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 00:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== Nord-Pas-de-Calais and Nord-Pas de Calais==

Hello! ''Nord-Pas-de-Calais'' and ''Nord-Pas de Calais'' are both used, although the ''Conseil régional'' use the spelling Nord-Pas de Calais (see www.nordpasdecalais.fr), which is unusual in French (see ''Ile-de-France'', etc).
[[User:Liam D|Liam D]] 19:56, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== [[:Image:Administrative map 94.png|Administrative map 94.png]] ==

Hi !

You first uploaded this image on wiki.en, before it was moved onto commons by [[commons:User:WebBoy|WebBoy]]. It can be very useful, but you tagged it [[commons:Template:GFDL|<nowiki>{{GFDL}}</nowiki>]], and it seems to me that this description lacks precision. Are you the author of this work ? Where did gou get data to make it ? I ask you that, because those data may be copyrighted.

Sorry for my bad English, I'm a native speaker of French. If you can speak French, communication would be much easier...

Thanks. <tt style="font-size:85%">/[[fr:User:IP 84.5|84]]•[[fr:User Talk:IP 84.5|5]]/13.07.2006/19:20&nbsp;UTC/</tt>
:
:The map was entirely done by me with the help of [[User:Rune.welsh]]. I don't think there is any copiright problem. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 22:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
::Thank you very much for your quick answer. <tt style="font-size:85%">/[[fr:User:IP 84.5|84]]•[[fr:User Talk:IP 84.5|5]]/15.07.2006/16:25&nbsp;UTC/</tt>

== [[WP:RfC|RfC]] ==

Hi Hardouin. After tonight, I'm really at the end of my rope with you: in a few short edits you've a) reinstated, for a fourth time, an unsuitable 'triple reference' leading to (only the front page of sites containing) numbers having nothing to do with the area spoken of in the article; b) similarily threatened to use "consensus" to enforce another unreferencable (because untrue, and obviously so) claim; c) made it seem, to the best of your insinuative ability, that I am somehow a "bad editor", and; d) accused me of being a 'bully' on another contributor's talk page, and this all because of my asking for references that of course you were unable to provide. By all means, file an [[WP:RfC]] if it will bring an end to this nonsense. In this post you can find two links that will take you there. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 00:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

== User notice: temporary 3RR block ==

<div style="background-color: #f9f9f9; border: 1px solid red; padding: 3px;">
====Regarding reversions[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paris&action=history] made on [[July 14]] [[2006]] ([[UTC]]) to [[Paris]]====
{| class="user-block"
|| [[Image:Octagon-warning.svg|left|30px| ]]
|| You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]]. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.
|}<!-- Template:3RR5 --> The duration of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User:Hardouin&action=edit&section=new block] is 8 hours.

I'm assuming the anon is you

[[User:William M. Connolley|William M. Connolley]] 16:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)</div>

== Revert wars ==

Must you turn every edit into a revert war? You just don't go and anhillate other contributor's work on baseless whim. Of course it is always easy to 'find' a reason for having reverted but in this case you can't - the list was merged only after being moved to a proper namespace, but now that you have put it back, it must be separated again. Please stop wasting time with this. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 17:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

: I hadn't even realised that you had filed a report against me, because I hadn't realised I had made a fourth revert. All the same, this is the second time you have filed a report against me after first breaking the [[WP:3RR]] rule yourself - although this time around wasn't quite as sneaky as the last. Using a page move to mask a revert wasn't very on the level - there should be no need for techniques like these. Stay true to fact, reality and reference and you will have no need to.

: Although you clearly broke the rules yourself, I'll let it drop this time. In return I'll just ask that you contribute in referenced fact, not unverifiable opinion. Regards. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 21:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

::No I didn't break the 3RR, and the page move wasn't a masked revert. Your accusations and insinuations are both disgusting and unfounded. Hopefully at some point an admin will catch you for all your libelling and warmongering. And don't pretend to be a good guy not reporting my supposed breaking of the 3RR out of generosity. We both know that the only reason why you didn't report it is because there was no evidence of breaking the 3RR on my side. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 21:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Yes you did break the [[WP:3RR]] rule. From my talk page:

:::: ''If clarification you would like, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Paris&oldid=62712918 this] was the version reverted to, but this became [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Paris&diff=63935307&oldid=62712918 this] with [[User:Metropolitan]]'s edits, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Paris&oldid=64020368 this] after many corrections/edits by yours truely. I don't know how it was done, perhaps by cut and paste or moving a precedent version, but in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Paris&diff=prev&oldid=64457198 moving the page], [[User:Hardouin]] somehow reverted it to its former state.''
:::: ...and with the three reverts after, that makes a grand total of four.

::: As for the rest of your denials and accusations - well, first off, the sockpuppetry, I made no accusation, but asked "what are the chances of this happening?" 1 anon IP making 1 edit (one revert) to the very 1 page where a revert had just ended - pretty slim, and in fact, next to zero. Time is no argument as you often edit in the wee hours, and if it's IP's you'd like to discuss, in looking at my Airport list of available frequencies, I can tap into any neighbour's Freebox; using proxies is no rocket science either. If I was to play this game you could never catch me : ) But I have no personal need to resort to tactics such as these because my edits are based on, or corrected by, verifiable fact. And not 'so-called' verifiable fact as you would insinuate - and I believe it is you who is always unable to come up with references when others question your claims. I'll also thank you for telling others that I revert, when the truth of the matter is that 99% of the time, when I make them, my reverts are to ''your'' reverts to my or other editor's contributions. Stick to the fact and truth, please, and you and your work be much more appreciated. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 21:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

:::PS: I also find it odd that your sockpuppetry denial comes today - after saying absolutely nothing the day you were blocked and those following. I've never known you to hesitate in your claims before. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 21:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

::::Look, you're sick man. Not only I have no clue what you're talking about with your "proxy" and "airport", but I am also quite worried with you're confessed skills in using the most sophisticated internet technology. It was already quite scary to see you stalking [[User:Metropolitan]] and uncovering his address and girlfriend's name, but now you sound even more scary. You're crazy, you know that? Crazy and paranoid. I sincerely hope someone stops you at some point. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 21:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

::::: LOL! I wonder if there's a "[[WP:V|verifiably]] [[crazy]] [[and]] [[paranoid]]" barnstar - if not, invent it and give me one : ) I'm a graphic designer/webmaster, but even then, googling a URL is not rocket science. And again, it was [[User:Metropolitan]] who told me the still rather flabbergasting story of posting as girfriends and parent's home pages... not the contrary as you would again insinuate. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 22:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

::::: PS: I especially loved the "Proxy? I don't know no proxy!" argument : ) Goodnight. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 22:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

== Ile-de-France ==

Seemingly there was a course of events a few days ago where 1) one user deletes all the text in the article (whether purposefully or unintentionally, I don't know); 2) another user marks it as a candidate for speedy deletion; 3) an administrator deleted it, apparently not bothering to look at the history. Pretty weak, overall. I've restored the article, so it should be alright. It could use some work, though - a map, in particular, would be nice. [[User:John Kenney|john k]] 01:59, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't actually see a map at [[Provinces of France]], and the image doesn't appear at [[:Image:Provinces of France.png]], or on the wikimedia commons, at least on my computer...perhaps it's a browser issue, though. At any rate, I think a locator map for each French province would be nice, as would a more detailed map, although I get your point that the issue is complicated with ''gouvernements'' and ''generalités'', and such like. That said, my understanding was that the ''gouvernements'' roughly corresponded to the provinces as they existed before the establishment of all that stuff in the 17th century. I myself have not had much experience making maps, so I'm not sure I'm the best one to do it. [[User:John Kenney|john k]] 19:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

:I can't even see anything to click...at any rate, thanks for the detailed information on the Ile de France, it was quite interesting, and gave me more details on stuff I'd previously had some sense of, but not too much in the way of details. I would suggest that a lot of what you wrote on my talk page could and should be worked into the article - particularly the various ''pays'' that are normally taken to make up the Ile de France. In terms of "official borders," I suppose it's true that this is vague, but I don't see why the ''gouvernements'' of François Ier won't do for us, as far as possible (although I would imagine that the territories brought into the Royal Demesne after his time - particularly the lands of Henry of Navarre - as well as some of the territories brought in later - particularly French Flanders/Hainaut/Cambrésis, Alsace, and Lorraine, with the three bishoprics and what not - might prove somewhat problematic). They were significant political units for about a century, and correspond, more or less, to traditional provinces. Some of the ''gouvernements'' seem a bit big and awkward - especially Guyenne et Gascogne, but it seems like a good start. In terms of ones with clear natural borders, I would imagine that most of the ones that came in whole to the royal domain (or to France) at one time or another would be fairly clear - Brittany, Normandy, Artois, Franche Comté, Burgundy (except, I suppose, for the Ain department, which was added on to Burgundy later, but was previously part of Savoy), Roussillon, etc. The biggest confusion on maps I've generally found in some of the weirder new territories mentioned before (especially Lorraine and the Nord area), and in the mixed up area where Picardy, Ile-de-France, and Champagne come together (I've also found it interesting that this is also one of the area where modern departmental boundaries depart most radically from the traditional province boundaries - most provinces can be roughly outlined using modern départements - those three simply can't be - Aisne is about half and half Picardy and Ile-de-France; Seine-et-Marne is about half Champagne and half Ile-de-France. Very awkward, really.)

:In terms of making a map, I'm not really sure. I don't even have photoshop, and even my MS Paint seems to have decided to freeze up every time I use it, so I'm definitely not one to do it. Despite a great interest in maps, I've never been very active in the map-making aspects of wikipedia (except one time when I rather painstakingly made a map of Roman Catholic dioceses in the United States with Paint), and so I'm not sure who generally does this. It shouldn't be hard to find someone who can at least make a basic locator map of provinces, though, which would, I think, be quite nice as a start. [[User:John Kenney|john k]] 23:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

== Pigheaded Reverts ==

Hi Hardouin. Move reverting is evil. As your behaviour is going against not only fact but practically all Wiki protocol and conventions, you are simply wasting other people's time. Stop. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family: Times; font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:16px;">T</span>HE<span style="font-size:16px;">P</span>ROMENADER</span>]] 14:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

==Image tagging for Image:Seihamuni.jpg==
Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Seihamuni.jpg]]'''. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
*[[Wikipedia:Image use policy]]
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This is an automated notice by [[User:OrphanBot|OrphanBot]]. For assistance on the image use policy, see [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. 11:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


== Image:Drapeau Marseille1.gif listed for deletion ==

<div style="padding:5px; background-color:#E1F1DE"> An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, [[:Image:Drapeau Marseille1.gif]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion#Image:Drapeau Marseille1.gif|Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion]]. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. [[User:Wwagner|Wwagner]] 20:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)<!-- Template:Idw --></div>

== Préfectures etc ==

Salut,
Well, I don't think I care enough about this template to really fight over it, but thanks for the heads up. If you ever need a third opinion on something like this though, feel free to soliciter mon avis. [[User Talk:Stevage|Stevage]] 18:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)



==Unspecified sources for 2 images==

Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:GuadLogo1.gif]]''' and '''[[:Image:GuadFlag.png]]'''. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{tl|GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the [[GFDL]]. If you believe the media meets the criteria at [[Wikipedia:Fair use]], use a tag such as {{tlp|fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use]]. See [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=upload&user={{urlencode:{{PAGENAME}}}}&page= this link]. '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded''', as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. [[User:Renata3|Renata]] 01:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

== Paris municipality, Categorical nonsense ==

Hi again, [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]]. A more civil way of editing would be to either make improvements because they are clearly improvements, or if they are more drastic, to suggest them on the article talk page. It is not in the interest of an article for one Wikipedian to dog after another contributor to make changes just for the sake of making changes: nothing you modified - the 'however', the 'of the' language and an event (provost shot) that would be better put in the 'history of Paris' section than a section describing administration function - could be considered as an improvement. The 'name' section correction of course was.

I also couldn't help but notice your last night's [[:Category:Skyscrapers in Paris]] 'category' additions - not only were these worthless and if anything damaging to article organisation, as the [[:Category:Tall buildings and structures in Paris]] already exists, but they were obviously just an attempt to spread your war on fact to other pages, as you have not a single coherent argument to offer in the article where it is now. And please don't fill talk page discussions with unverifiable and nonsensical comparative cruft - answer with fact please, and stay on topic. And whatever your problem is with me, please get over it. You're not the only "Paris-Wiki" contributor now. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;cursor:se-resize;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 15:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

:I suggest you read [[Paranoid personality disorder]]. Maybe this article will help you. And please stop writing nonsense on my talk page. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 16:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

:: Hello again. Is there something untrue in anything I wrote? Shall we compare our contribution lists, to see the where and when of what was done? Thanks for the insult. Again, stick to fact and you'll have no problem here. Regards, <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;cursor:se-resize;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 17:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
==Unspecified source for Image:Karolus.gif==



Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Karolus.gif]]'''. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{tl|GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the [[GFDL]]. If you believe the media meets the criteria at [[Wikipedia:Fair use]], use a tag such as {{tlp|fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use]]. See [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=upload&user={{urlencode:{{PAGENAME}}}}&page= this link]. '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded''', as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. [[User:Fritz Saalfeld|Fritz Saalfeld]] ([[User talk:Fritz Saalfeld|Talk]]) 19:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
==Unspecified source for Image:Karolus1.gif==



Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Karolus1.gif]]'''. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the [[copyright]] status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=upload&user={{urlencode:{{PAGENAME}}}}&page= this link]. '''Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded''', as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. [[User:Fritz Saalfeld|Fritz Saalfeld]] ([[User talk:Fritz Saalfeld|Talk]]) 19:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

== While you are "notifying"... ==

I put the talk page back the way it was - if you are going to tattle, best show everyone exactly what I did instead of hiding it and making all sorts of vague insinuations. Thanks. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;cursor:se-resize;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 20:58, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== List of buildings... ==

Thx for restoring my comment and letting me know - I did throw in what some might call a little cheap shot re Jersey City vs Paris - but the other comments are completely relevant - I just don't understand why Promenade is so insistent --<font color="#06C">[[User_talk:Trödel|Trödel]]</font> 21:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
: I'm glad I'm not frequenting those pages --<font color="#06C">[[User_talk:Trödel|Trödel]]</font> 21:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
:: I think I just realized why I even care about the Paris naming issue - promenader's last comment on my talk page reminded me of the literal but impractical usage trying to be forced on other editors re the [[Halifax Regional Municipality]] that required anyone reading the page to learn too much about an esoteric political division --<font color="#06C">[[User_talk:Trödel|Trödel]]</font> 21:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== My favourite flashback machine ==

That wasn't a revert - care to compare? Yours was. Follow fact instead of me please. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 22:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

: I have reverted your revert to my corrections. Although I know you would like to maintain your opinion that the medieval merchant ''prévôté'' was an overall governer of Paris, this is hardly the case, as crown law then held sway over all for anything 'control' of the city. As for the "shooting incident", it is exactly that - an incident - as a mayor would have been elected anyway. The article can only be so long, you know. My edits were perfectly founded, so respect please. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 22:57, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

:: And, as usual, you have reverted yet again without considering for a second what you reverted. Wiki can only be your mirror if you are alone, you know. Please stop wasting the time of others for nothing please. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 23:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

::: Nice tactic trying to state that my edits were 'reverts' - we both know that nothing of the sort is true. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 23:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
::: I really suggest that you stop fooling about. It is a waste of both our time. Especially with you around, if it were factually wrong, do you really think I'd waste my time publishing it? You don't seem to have the same worries about the veracity of your own edits though. Which makes your reverting all the more annoying... please stop, as reverting is not a way to 'win' anything. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 23:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Problem is, it *is* factually wrong. Read [[Talk:Paris]], and be a bit more humble. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 23:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

: Again you are interpreting fact in pretending that your interpretation of fact itself is fact. History is not at all as you have written it, as the ''Prévôt''s governing of the city was only ''partial''. If you would like to talk about finding a clearer way of saying this, then let's talk, but you must stop following me around and reverting. Your defending what you have written ''exactly as you have written it'' even if if relates a message other than fact must end as well. You are here to relate written fact, not to showcase your own originality through publishing your quite personal interpretation of fact. I don't mind that you are 'most knowledgable', but this means nothing if what you publish isn't - or doesn't come across as - fact. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 00:07, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

:: None of the above has anything do do with the ''non sequitur'' and misleadingly-written 'shooting' incident I told you about one week before. Your behaviour is pure protectionism, nothing more. Would you believe that I had forgotten that the 'fact' passage in question was my own? Follow my example - correct the text to correct the text, not to correct the person who wrote it. I suggest a reading of [[WP:POINT]]. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 07:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding above: Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing Wikipedia under the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that nobody may [[Wikipedia:revert|revert]] a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the ''effect'' of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.<!-- Template:3RR --> [[User:HawkerTyphoon|HawkerTyphoon]] 00:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

: Again I regret looking at your contributions - to see yet another talk page tour of... (biting tongue). Your even defending yourself is silly - we had a discussion on this weeks before, but you refused to follow it. After weeks of no change, but not minutes after the intended correction was made, you pounce and revert. And revert. And revert. And revert. Then you leave 'justification' - that you could have provided weeks before - that is not at all what you say it is. I suggest that you find a more civil way of contributing, and that you concentrate on fact, and not your own interpretation thereof. Goodnight. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 01:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

==3RR Violation/Block==
You have been blocked for 48 hours for breaking the 3RR on [[Paris]]. This is not your first violation - I sugest you read [[WP:3RR|the policy]] carefully. --[[User:Robdurbar|Robdurbar]] 06:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
:Why wasn't [[User:ThePromenader]] sanctioned too? He broke the 3RR. I clearly indicated his four reverts at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:Hardouin reported by User:ThePromenader (Result:48 hours)]]. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 11:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
{{unblock reviewed|Why wasn't User:ThePromenader sanctioned too? He broke the 3RR. I clearly indicated his four reverts at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:Hardouin reported by User:ThePromenader (Result:48 hours). This is one sided if the other person who also broke the 3RR is not sanctioned.|decline=Whether or not another person was blocked doesn't change your block. Please discuss in the future instead of reverting. --Shell <sup>[[User_talk:Shell_Kinney|babelfish]]</sup> 11:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)}}
:You didn't answer my question. Why wasn't the other user sanctioned as well? [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 11:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

:: Hardouin, my edit was hardly a revert: First off, the edit you reverted is quite unlike its original form, and the rest was a correction outlined more than a week beforehand as you can see on the [[Talk:Paris|Paris talk page]] and [[#Paris_municipality.2C_Categorical_nonsense|just above]]. You chose not to answer, so I corrected. The first revert was yours, as always. <font face="Futura, Helvetica, _sans">[[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;color:#ddd7a3;padding:0 3px 0 3px;background:#aba67e;">the<span style="color:#ffffff;">promenader</span></span>]]</font> 11:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, its a little technicality of the 3RR that can seem a bit unfair, I guess, but Promenader's first edit wasn't a 'revert' - it was just an edit. He then reverted you three times which is allowed, and after that did not revert. --[[User:Robdurbar|Robdurbar]] 18:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't reply sooner as I havn't had the opportunity to log onto the internet much over the last day or so. I don't know if the 3RR can take into account the 'reversion' of edits over 8 days old, especially where numerous edits have taken place in between. If you do feel that Promenader is editing in bad faith and unfairly then you could always run an RfC against him or just go to the administrators' noticeboard when your block is finished.

However I think that the best way to go about now would be to:
* Drop this petty 'you broke the 3rr/no you did' debate with ThePromenader. Clearly that needs you both to agree that you will not break it, and to agree that you will not try and 'bend the rules'. You HAVE broken the 3rr many times on Paris and you will find little sympathy from any other Wikipedians whilst you continue to do so, no matter what aggrevation.
* If still you feel that the Paris article is wrong, open up a [[WP:RfC|request for comment]] on the article on TP, if you feel that it is him who is causing the problem.

Most of all, please look to contribute to Wikipedia in a constructive way. It is not a place for people to get into fights about minor points, but to build a fun and informative encyclopedia. [[User:Robdurbar|Robdurbar]] 21:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


== Archiving? ==
== Archiving? ==


Ever thought about [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|archiving]] your talk page? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] <sup>[[User talk:Fang Aili|<font color="green">talk</font>]]</sup> 15:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Ever thought about [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|archiving]] your talk page? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] <sup>[[User talk:Fang Aili|<font color="green">talk</font>]]</sup> 15:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
:Done. [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] 10:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


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== Images of De Gaulle ==

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== Revert to Municipal errors, revisited ==

The error of your revert to your 'own' errors is outlined in the concerned page.

''This has been reported to several admins anyway, who will no doubt keep an eye on this.'' - I see no evidence of this. You would be quite kind to keep your complaints above board where they can be verified and refuted. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family:Futura, Helvetica, _sans;color:#ddd7a3;font-size:95%;">THE<span style="color:#aba67e;">PROMENADER</span></span>]] 23:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

''nota'': the Paris page will have to be corrected sooner or later, unless you can find evidence that the nationwide ''commune'' system was a result of the Provost's shooting. The rest of your reverts were motivated by nothing but sheer pigheadedness and not at all in reader interest - and your 'disproving' statement was pure fabrication: there was no mention of 'medieval state' or even 'state' in anything you reverted, and what you reverted described qute completely the reasons for Paris' nearly-constant lack of political independance. Such behaviour is not what one can call [[good faith]]. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family:Futura, Helvetica, _sans;color:#ddd7a3;font-size:95%;">THE<span style="color:#aba67e;">PROMENADER</span></span>]] 23:41, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

: You are the one reverting, so you yourself should provide the evidence ''before'' you revert. Telling me "where to read" is not this. Again you are imposing an event that, only a ''sliver'' of importance in the creation of Paris' (France's) municipal ''commune'' system, would appear to be the entire cause. This does not take an entire talk page to "explain". Even the [[commune in France]] article (written largely by yourself - and quite a quite good piece of work I must add) shows that the commune was a next step to the office of provost's ''abolishment'', not the shooting of the Provost ''himself''.

: Watch me for ''what''? Those must have been some pretty interesting mails, and sent not to just anyone I'm sure. I'll count on the judgement of all concerned to look at facts and page histories for reality. The originality in much of what you write, and your vehemence in ensuring that it stay exactly as you wrote it, speaks of more personal ends and promoting personal theories than sharing information - this is quite obvious to anyone knowing anything about the subjects in which we contribute. Unfortunately there are few 'in the know', which is why, for lack of consensus, you are able to make life so difficult for other contributors trying to make an article resemble more [[verifiability|reference]] than a single wikipedian's opinion. This is not a gang war, there is no 'sides', and there is no 'property' - it is the integrity of the written word that has the final say, and that's it. Work to this end and you'll have no reason for conflict with anyone. [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family:Futura, Helvetica, _sans;color:#ddd7a3;font-size:95%;">THE<span style="color:#aba67e;">PROMENADER</span></span>]] 00:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

== Off-board Complaints ==

''I would appreciate if Promenader wouldn't delete each and every of my contributions. This has been reported to several admins anyway, who will no doubt keep an eye on this.''

...Wait a second. By the above, are you insinuating that you complained to editors that it is '''I''' who follows you about reverting your edits? Nothing could be farther than the truth; in fact, just the opposite is true! The typical [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] scenario, at least in my time on wiki:

:* A contributor has the ''malchance'' to edit/correct an article that [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] has written/extensively edited.
:* In no time at all, [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] is there to inspect the additions/alterations, and reverts or overwrites them if they are not to his taste, and this, in many cases, without leaving any talk page message at all.
:* Should the reverted contributor be angry and see the revert as needless, and revert back, [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] will engage in a revert-war until he gets the 'last revert', and this well beyond the [[WP:3RR]] is broken - and since he is always the first to revert, he is always first to cross the line.
:* Should through all the above, the reverted contributor leave talk page messages pointing out the needlessness of the reverts and/or proving the original text as being false, [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] will begin replying with only arguments supporting his "own" reverted-to version and completely ignoring arguments motivating change.
:* Should the revert-war end with [[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]] having the last revert, he will end all talk-page discussion until someone once again tries to edit the article, and the above scenario will repeat itself.

Anyone can verify this, especially in the [[Paris]] article page history.

... the 'municipal dance' was a break from this in its onset, but it later followed the same cycle. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paris&diff=69807210&oldid=69789877 Your first edits], made under the label "corrected some longstanding errors" (it was obvious with through earlier mentions in other discussion that you were obsessed with this section) was not at all to correct any errors but add quite inventive text of your own - a text ''not reverted'', but refuted in the [[Talk:Paris#Municipality_-_or_trade.3F|Paris talk page]]. It was only after weeks of your ignoring all suggestions and arguments that I made corrections and language improvements - but your original contribution [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paris&diff=69789771&oldid=69684137 remained largely intact]. You cancelled many of these but two hours after by the re-insertion of your own former text (marked as a "minor edit" in the bargain) - with the addition of yet another misleading phrase - and after even more talkpage banter/ignoring, the circle began once again.

This is of course without mention of other tactics such as false and denigrating complaints to other contributors, 'turnaround' accusations, [[gaming the system]] (such as in the latest [[WP:3RR]] debacle) and last but not least, sock-puppetry.

All of the above behaviour speaks of something other than than article informative value/accuracy, but whatever it is, this is of no concern to me. Making misleading complaints to administrators, on the other hand, is something else entirely. I invite anyone concerned to take this up with me directly.

[[User:Hardouin|Hardouin]], you've managed to make contributing to Wiki a quite unpleasant experience: if you really have an accusation to make, I suggest you open a [[WP:RFC]] against me so we can see through fact where your complaint lies. If all you have is insinuations, I suggest that you not waste any more of anyone's time.

Regards, [[User:ThePromenader|<span style="font-family:Futura, Helvetica, _sans;color:#ddd7a3;font-size:95%;">THE<span style="color:#aba67e;">PROMENADER</span></span>]] 08:26, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
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Revision as of 10:55, 31 August 2006



Saints Wikiproject

I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the WikiProject Saints. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.

HaloThis user is a member of
WikiProject Saints.


Thanks! --evrik 16:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archiving?

Ever thought about archiving your talk page? --Fang Aili talk 15:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Hardouin 10:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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