Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film

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Zero Dark Thirty plot

Can an uninvolved editor take a look at the recent plot changes at Zero Dark Thirty, please? I have removed the film from my watchlist because I have tired of arguing with the anonymous editor who keeps rewriting the plot. Someone objective should take a look and see if it is an improvement. Thanks. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 13:57, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

It is unfortunate that the stand that this experience has been characterized as "arguing". The primary use of this article is not for the person that has seen or is well acquainted with the film but with someone otherwise. Do the unilateral reverts reintroduce inaccuracies or confusion? Are the changes inaccurate? Do the changes tighten the text? Do the changes reduce confusion for those that have not seen the film? Is it necessary despite WP policy to list every detail instead of providing an overall view of the plot? Each time I see a film different aspects get more introspection. Since when has it been absolutely necessary to justify edits only by justification on the talk pages when so many edits in WP never go beyond explanation except in the edit box? As far as I understand this article has yet to reach star status. I hope that my "anonymous" standing has nothing to di with how the edits are received.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 16:22, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

I haven't watched the film so it is difficult to make generalized observations for or against the IP's edits. The IP for what it's worth is attempting to keep his edits tight which always wins favor in my book. Is there something specific that you have a problem with or do you just dislike the tone of the summary? Betty Logan (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, the plot is at a point that more could be added that just increases word count at the cost of changing from a plot to a story line. It does present the ever jarring presence of those that want a guarantee (photograph of bin Laden) and those that evaluate probability based on behavior and culture that Maya uses. It clears up some factual mistakes. It eliminates some word gymnastics. Sometimes a good plot has to consider losing the "party list" approach to plot development. The who what when where & why is not for every incident in a timeline but for the entire timeline, especially a fictionalised account of non-fiction. A plot probably has to be a grammarian's chief antagonist (Innuendo comes a close second) because there are some people that have to move to the teaspoon to the saucer instead of leaving it in the cup, no matter how hot the tea. They can never change their sense of regret.00:20, 29 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk)

Category:Dolby Atmos films needs review/upkeep

Category:Dolby Atmos films appears to list numerous film articles that make no mention of using this technology. Per WP:CATV then, it is likely inappropriate for the films to be in this category unless/until the articles can be improved to make mention of this tech. I also question whether this is really a defining feature of the films, as at this point this sound technology appears to be fairly widely-adopted, but I figured I'd get some feedback here before taking further action. DonIago (talk) 15:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

If the category is not helping to organize the articles themselves by content then there is no reason for it to exist. If the technology is notable and it is useful to know which films utilise it then perhaps the information would be best suited to a list. Betty Logan (talk) 23:43, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm reading this as an implicit support for deleting the category... DonIago (talk) 14:42, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

At best we should decide/define what should be in its parent Category:Films by technology and what not. Deleting one child doesn't solve the mess. There's also the Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 August 10#Category:Mobile Phone Movies that is stuck midways between delete and merge and even if merged there's the camcorder cat as well. I think the key is in the range of inclusion of parent category. Hoverfish Talk 19:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I was having thoughts along those lines after raising the initial question, but I guess when it comes to CfDs I prefer to start with the most outlying branches first. I was about to suggest that Dolby Atmos could be upmerged, but now I'm not sure what these categories are really trying to accomplish. If they're supposed to be a way to view significant instances where these films utilized the various technologies, then right now I'm leaning towards Lists being a better option. People who don't know better or don't care to do the work will persistently add films to these categories without any regard to whether the film articles support the categorization, much less whether it's a significant usage. DonIago (talk) 20:06, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Would anyone else care to weigh in on this? I can work on moving articles out of the category per WP:CATV as time permits, but that won't stop anyone else from adding articles to it, and it's unclear to me from the limited participation here that we'd have enough of a consensus for anything to be done about the category. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 13:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

I support making a list to include the articles of this category and deleting the category. Hoverfish Talk 20:17, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Ask and you shall receive[1]. DonIago (talk) 20:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC) See below. DonIago (talk) 02:00, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

This Category:Auro 11.1 films looks to be a related item. I am working my way through both and most of the articles have no sourced info about either tech. I agree that a list article (separate or together) is preferable to a category. MarnetteD|Talk 20:40, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

You have my blessing to piggyback on my CfD, if that's acceptable protocol. DonIago (talk) 20:42, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Doniago. I would suggest that you go ahead and add it. That way we can be sure that I don't mess things up at the CFD :-) MarnetteD|Talk 21:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

SIGH. Fiiiiiine. I'll add it shortly after leaving this note. :p DonIago (talk) 01:50, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion is now here. DonIago (talk) 02:00, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

"Watch" request

Urgently needing someone who would put The Getaway (1972 film), an article I have significantly expanded, onto their watchlist and review revisions made in it; sometimes I'm pretty busy and I won't be able to do so. SLIGHTLY^mad 13:54, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

List of the longest gaps between film sequels at AfD

Please see this discussion. And a warning that the article itself has an interesting colour-scheme... Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:02, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Template BFI Explore

When searching for a template of British-Film-Institute-ID I only found Template:BFI Explore. To take this example I want to show the difference between http://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6b26838c and the more precise http://collections-search.bfi.org.uk/web/Details/ChoiceFilmWorks/150039217. This template should be modified. -- MovieFex (talk) 08:28, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

How precisely should it be modified? The BFI Explore template links to entries in the BFI Explore database. Thast is what it was created to do. The BFI may have other more informative pages about the film but that is beyond the scope of the template. There are several options here; you could just add the link manually or if there are enough pages and links to justify a new template then perhaps one could be created. Betty Logan (talk) 12:27, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Gangs of New York

I brought this up here at the Filmproject last year, but the issue has resurfaced and I want to get other editor's opinions on this so we can (hopefully) make a final determination. [email protected] insists on adding the word "fictional" to the lede in place of "historical," arguing that the film is not historical but a complete work of fiction. I don't think anyone confuses this film for a documentary, and the point of saying "historical period film" is to point out that it happens during a given historical period, in this case, the Civil War era, not to argue that every claim in the film is historically accurate. The article has a historical accuracy section that is more than sufficient for pointing out the errors made or liberties taken in telling the story. It is simply not necessary to add the word "fictional" to the lede, and I see this as [email protected] pushing his particular PoV about the film. This needs to stop. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 13:05, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't buy dropping "historical" because of the story being fictional, but "period drama" and "historical period drama" seem to be synonymous anyway. A quick search engine test shows "period drama" used in reference to the film (regardless of historical vs. fictional). The setting of the film's period is defined in the very same sentence. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 13:49, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I think traditionally fiction that has a purely historical setting and concerns fictional characters and events is regarded as "period" fiction, whereas fiction based upon historical events is regarded as "historical" fiction so I can understand where Rms125a is coming from. In the case of Gangs of New York the line is blurred but since it primarily deals with fictional characters I would personally categorise it as a "period film". That said, genre classifications on Wikipedia should be consistent with what reliable sources categorise it as and it is described as a "historical epic" by the AFI, while Allmovie describes it as a "crime drama", "historical epic" and "period film". In this case we can't really discount the fact it is a "historical epic" because we have two sources describing it as such, and neither source qualifies those genres as "fictional". Betty Logan (talk) 14:07, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The lede currently defines it as an "epic period drama," which I believe to be accurate and in keeping with the sources. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 16:19, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

@Betty Logan -- with all due respect Betty Logan to call this one dimensional film an "historical epic" does violence to the term "historical" as it is almost entirely fictional. Gone With the Wind was more historically accurate, but would we call it "Historical"? What about the ridiculous Night and Day (1946 film) purportedly about the life of Cole Porter but so heavily sanitized that it bears little resemblance to the real thing. Obviously every film takes liberties with its material, even material based on non-fictional sources, that's why they are not documentaries. Quis separabit? 16:37, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The lede currently defines it as an "epic period drama" which I believe to be accurate and in keeping with the sources as per @TheOldJacobite (who accused me of being "obstructive" but if you read my edit summary, I think it's clear I am not being obstructive). Thus, @TheOldJacobite and I are in agreement. I just want the term "historical" removed, as in Historical period drama, which is unnecessary as period drama is perfectly OK. That's all. What is the problem? Quis separabit? 16:25, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The problem is that film genres are just as subject to Wikipedia's sourcing requirements as any other claim. If you are going to discount the opinion of the American Film Institute then you need a source more authoritative than your own opinion here. Look, writing from my own knowledge I would have categorised it as a period drama like you but ultimately you know we don't have that luxury on Wikipedia. Betty Logan (talk) 16:39, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

REPLIES

@Betty Logan, @TheOldJacobite -- thanks for your clarifying information. The AFI review's lengthy disclaimer is disingenuous, however I found in National Geographic Online ("Gangs of New York: Fact vs. Fiction") and the Gotham Gazette what are far more intellectually honest and ethical discussions based on actual evidence, which show the film was almost wholly fictional. It didn't even stick to Herbert Asbury's original depiction, which was heavily flawed as it was.

Gotham Gazette

Gotham Gazette had a far more intellectually honest and serious discussion than anything you are going to find from beneficiaries and interested parties inextricably linked to the nexus of the film industry, like AFI.

• A) "David Denby writes in the New Yorker: "Gangs is an example of the fallacy of research: they got the hats and knives right, but the main lines of the story don't make much sense".
• B) Screenwriter Jay Cocks, when asked "[H]ow closely does the movie [Gangs of New York] follow Asbury's book, or other historical accounts?", replied "Hi....thanks for having me around. Doesn't follow the Asbury book at all. We supplied the story. Asbury supplied inspiration and a little history."
• C) Historian Tyler Anbinder, who overall gave the film positive reviews, said of the lead character played by Daniel Day-Lewis: The real Bill Poole was something like Bill Cutting, but only a bit."
• D) "How about the building called the Old Brewery. Did it look like dark Roman caves?"
  Cocks: "That's the way we dreamed it."
• E "Some critics, Mr. Cocks, have said the movie has depicted the neighborhood as worse than it actually was. Is this true, and what was your incentive?"
  Cocks: "Incentive was solid drama. Inspiration was Fellini's 'Satyricon', Peckinpah's 'The Wild Bunch' and Kubrick's 'A Clockwork Orange' as much as fact. Probably more." Quis separabit? 17:24, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
• F Tyler Anbinder: "And as they say, it's only a movie. "Scorsese knows much more history than is portrayed in the movie ... He wanted to make a dramatic statement, he didn't want to make a documentary."

National Geographic report on Gangs of New York

• A: Rebecca Yamin: "Taken together, the artifacts and historical records paint a picture of hard-working immigrants trying to make the best of a bad situation, and to make a home of a hovel. 'They were doing what they could do for their families to live respectably' ... They had ornaments on their mantels and pictures on their walls and teapots and teacups, and they were eating very well ... Even here meat was often on the table three times a day, animal remains and historical accounts show.
  "In the Scorsese movie you have these scenes in a basement where there are skulls in the corners and people are draped in rags ... We didn't see anything to suggest that people were living like that. There were certainly no skulls rolling around in people's rooms." And few pewter cups, for that matter. Watching the movie, Yamin says, "the thing I really noticed was those pewter mugs everyone was drinking out of. Well, they stopped drinking out of those in the 18th century." Yamin recalls showing movie researchers, who visited her team to research period furnishings, the little glass tumblers Five Pointers drank from. Laughing, she says, "In other words, they didn't learn anything from us."
  Historian Anbinder agrees with Yamin's appraisal of Five Pointers: "Most of them had real, legal jobs ... Many were shoemakers, tailors, masons, grocers, cigarmakers, liquor dealers, and laborers."
• B "Writing in the Al Capone era, Asbury interpreted the Five Points gangs as the precursors of 1920s organized-crime mobs, Anbinder says. Scorsese, the director of Mafia classics such as Goodfellas and Mean Streets, seizes on this idea in Gangs. "That's one of the big problems with the movie ... In fact, gangs like the Dead Rabbits and Bowery Boys were political clubs that met at nights and on weekends to promote their candidates. 'They would fight at the polls and sometimes beat up their opponents, but not just for fun or plunder'", Anbinder says. "So why fight? Nearly every scuffle was designed to help a gang's chosen candidate into public office. Once there, the candidate would reciprocate, bestowing good, steady-paying patronage jobs and municipal funds on his constituency." Anbinder also faults the movie for its emphasis on Catholic-Protestant conflict. Most fighting was among gangs of Irish-Catholic Five Pointers. And it was rarely as bloody or deadly as in the movie. "Rioters did not go about with swords and broadaxes. Every once in a while one person would have one, but never whole mobs armed like that." Quis separabit? 17:34, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

So, can we remove Historical period drama and replace it with period drama?? Quis separabit? 17:42, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't think the problem is the historical accuracy of the film—as far as I can see nobody has argued it is historically accurate—but rather you are taking a narrow view of "historical" fiction compared to its common application. For example, the AFI counts Cabaret, Chinatown and Citizen Kane as "historical" films, so they don't seem to distinguish between authentic history and fiction films with period settings. If a film is biographical in nature it is generally categorized as a biography. Likewise, Allmovie take a very liberal view of what counts as a "historical epic" describing it as "A type of movie with great historical sweep, usually focused on some important figure or events", counting the likes of Gone with the Wind, Ran and Doctor Zhivago as historical epics. Personally I would have been happy with "period drama" but it's not our call. Betty Logan (talk) 11:08, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Um, with all due respect, how is it not "our call"? We are all editors on this collaborative encyclopedia and I know of no rule which says the AFI or Allmovie sites take precedence over our consensus, should we reach one, barring, of course, legal issues, of which none present themselves. This is a little bit of a tempest in a teapot, which I may have stirred, but which now seems to have raised new issues of where our writ ends, an issue on which I respectfully disagree with Betty. Were I to unilaterally cite WP:IAR to remove the offending word, which I will not do, but am merely mentioning hypothetically, what would happen? This may be a tempest in a teapot, which I acknowledge stirring, but if so, why then is this trivial conceit of such paramount importance?? My own low personal opinion of the film, as referenced by @TheOldJacobite, can obviously be discerned from my text, but I have backed it up with reliable and more than merely reliable sources (Yamin, Arbinder, Denby, and Cocks above), which are not being given due weight. Yours. Quis separabit? 20:02, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

The sources you have brought up are discussing the historical accuracy of The Gangs of New York, not whether the genre of "historical film" can include highly fictionalized period films or not. Now, when I joined this debate I thought I was going to agree with you but after looking at various databases I don't think reliable sources support such a rigid position on genre classification. Most if not all take a liberal view of what constitutes a "historical" film. The AFI catalog is one of the most reputable film databases out there (compiled by film academics) and its "history" category includes many fictionalized films with a period setting. The rather less prestigious Allmovie do likewise. Even the IMDB—which I appreciate is not a reliable source—include fictional period films in its "history" genre, categorizing Gone with the Wind as a historical film. The biggest problem here is that I cannot find any catalog or database that separates films into period and historical films along the lines of authenticity. Betty Logan (talk) 10:34, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

"Usually focused on some important figure or events" --- @BettyLogan -- Ok. So who is the important figure in a film in which the only character who actually existed is Boss Tweed. Maggie the Cat was not a bouncer and or an owner of a pub -- that was, in real life, Gallus Mags. If the film were about Tweed I probably would not be dissenting. But it isn't. It is primarily about almost exclusively fictional persons committing, at an unspecified but hinted timeframe which thus tacitly avoids actual horrific events of that time that would qualify today as war crimes, and likely would today as well, to wit, burning orphanages, lynching, murders, arson and ethnic cleansing. So fictional characters committing fictional acts is "historical"!!

I understand I haven't attained a consensus but I just wanted to close out the thread with my remaining thoughts. I understand and respect your position. Yours. Quis separabit? 02:08, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Gone Girl (film) nominated for WP:GA

The Gone Girl (film) article has been nominated for WP:GA by MagicatthemovieS. Interested editors might want to work on any improvements the article may need before the review begins. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Disruptive editing, WP:FILMLEAD

I have previously posted here of issues with User:Taeyebar. He continues to edit war over subgenres, putting in his preferred version in film article leads. He has been repeatedly warned about this regarding Snow White and the Huntsman and other pages. He says things like this movie was titled high fantasy before being changed without discussion. Calling something fantasy is different from saying "it's not high fantasy" as that's the subgenre. even though it's been discussed there and at Talk:The Huntsman: Winter's War.

I gave him notice: As you've been told before, WP:FILMLEAD, which says Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and represent what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable sources. Most sources call this film a fantasy, not a "high fantasy". You've been told this many times before. Claiming authority from another guideline that has nothing to do with films or genres does not entitle you to ignore the clear intent of WP:FILMLEAD. Get consensus or leave it alone. You also need to stop your WP:STALKING on numerous pages.

His announced intention to stalk me can be seen here. A number of his reverts of my work were immediately reverted by other editors, like this one and this one. Others here have had run-ins with him as well, like Betty Logan. Last June User:TenTonParasol warned him here As a third and uninvolved party, I'm going to firmly warn: systematically undoing Gothicfilm's edits as part of an announced vendetta sparked by an unrelated issue is unconstructive battleground behavior (see WP:BATTLEGROUND). She backed up the warning here. But still, he persisted. If you look at his edit history, over 90 percent of his edits since August 18, 2017 have been reverts of the last edit I did at certain pages. I posted another warning on his Talk page as seen here. He has lately taken to saying things like They both mean the same thing don't they? So whats the point and But i told you it can fit in one sentence. How is this change necessary? after repeatedly undoing my fix to a very long run-on sentence. Since being warned by DonQuixote yesterday regarding The Wicker Man (film series), he is now demanding discussion over my edits, trying to present himself as a responsible party watching over my activity.

As he has backed off when others have reverted him, I'm asking editors here who would like to see WP:FILMLEAD respected to address the situation at Snow White and the Huntsman, and also take a look at the less visited articles where he continues to revert my edits, such as Niki Caro and Isabelle Fuhrman. - Gothicfilm (talk) 01:30, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Article request

Could someone write an article about the Paramount film Booloo, 1938? I don't know where generally to look for good sources, and a Google search is complicated by the existence of a porn website with the same name. It has an IMDB entry, and bizarrely, this American film with no en:wp article has an article in the Malay Wikipedia, complete with a poster image. Nyttend (talk) 15:01, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

There's a review in The New York Times, but I don't see anything at Variety. Other sources: BFI, AFI, AllMovie, the Singaporean National Library. The last one probably has the most information. Maybe it was more popular in Southeast Asia than in the US. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:52, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Took a few days to get around to it, but I made a stub, Booloo. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 10:37, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merger (Begotten" and "Din of Celestial Birds")

There is a discussion at Talk:Din of Celestial Birds#Merger Proposal to merge the short film article with its feature length predecessor, Begotten (film). DarkKnight2149 20:00, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposal of removing plot section from films articles

There are issues about the Plot section ok the film's article first of all the Screenplay and Story of a film is a copyright of it's production house so it would be copvio and plagarism if we allowed to write plot in films article, and secondly most plots on wikipages about films are unsourced, despite being unsourced they still are there, mispresentation of plot by original research can simply change the theme of film, and original research is forbidden in the Wikipedia. Anoptimistix "Message Me" 08:57, 3 September 2017 (UTC) Anoptimistix "Message Me" 08:57, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

If you have a specific example of mispresentation of a film plot in a certain article, it should be discussed and corrected locally. In general lines, this project has guidelines on what should be in film plot sections and how it should be formulated to avoid OR, copivio and plagiarism. There are no issues I know of with production companies in respect to plot sections of film articles. I hope this helps. Hoverfish Talk 09:13, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

There seem to be a couple of misconceptions here. Retelling/summarizing some plot in your own words, is usually not a copyright violation. And retelling basic content/facts based on primary sources usually isn't original research either. Plot summaries are in doubt always based on an (implicit) primary source, that is the film itself. So there is also no issue of the plot summary being unsourced.

However in individual cases when somebody cuts & pastes a plot summary from elsewhere, then of course it would be a copyright violation, but it that case not the plot summary as such such but the cut &paste job is the problem. Similarly somebody might mix a mere plot summary with analysis and interpretation, then that would constitute original research (at least if no sources other then the film itself are provided for the analysis/interpretation part).

Lastly content/plot summary sections are a well established and essential part on articles about films, books, plays or even songs and we're certainly not going to remove them over questionable or disputed interpretations of policy.--Kmhkmh (talk) 10:09, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Please also take a look at WP:FILMPLOT. Most people write a plot based on what they've just watched. As long as they don't add their own opinion, there's no danger of WP:OR. And to put it bluntly, there's no way in hell all the film plots will be removed from WP. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:26, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not going to happen. Unless the plot includes direct quotes (which one could argue is permissable under fair use) there isn't really a copyright concern. I don't know of any law that prohibits writing a summary of a work based on your own recollection. Betty Logan (talk) 12:29, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

A detailed scene by scene recap may be a problem (the Harry Potter compendium book lawsuit), but as FILMPLOT targets plots no longer than 700 words, this is near impossible to achieve on WP. --MASEM (t) 12:41, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Cast tables in film series articles

A dispute has arisen at Rocky (film series) about whether the details for Creed 2 should be added (along with a credit issue). I removed the column because the film has not started filming so a Creed 2 article would not meet the notability requirements. Of course, items added to tables do not need to meet notability requirements so I was wondering what the protocol is for this, and whether I was correct to remove the entry?? It seems to me that we would be just documenting speculation until the thing actually starts so do we have a project stance on this? Betty Logan (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Which lead image to use at the Alycia Debnam-Carey article?

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Alycia Debnam-Carey#Which lead image to use?. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:54, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Category cruft

Category:BBC's 100 Films of the 21st Century up for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_September_3#Category:BBC.27s_100_Films_of_the_21st_Century. Betty Logan (talk) 21:42, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Franchise and Film series: Changing the DAB

The proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(films)#Franchise_and_Film_series:_Changing_the_DAB to alter the (film series) disambiguator needs to be resolved. The discussion is going around in circles so I think the most clear-cut way to resolve this is to take a survey, which can be found at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(films)#Survey, if you don't want to trawl through the discussion. For those editors who have been involved in the discussion it would be helpful to briefly summarise your position. Betty Logan (talk) 22:46, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Uma Thurman stalking case

Hi, all. Opinions are needed on the following matter: Talk:Uma Thurman#Request for comment. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

List of cult films and article size

Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:17, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Crush fetish article

Hi, all. Can we get some opinions on the current state of Crush fetish (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)? I started a discussion at Talk:Crush fetish#Recent expansions. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 16:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Wording for using secondary sources to gauge an older's film's change in reception

We need some opinions on the following: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film#"secondary sources" for the film's reception are NOT the same thing as what many editors are likely to read "secondary sources" as. A permalink for it is here. There's also a discussion higher up on the talk page about using Rotten Tomatoes for significantly older films. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:53, 9 September 2017 (UTC)