Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Detroit Lions draft picks (1970–present)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC) [1].

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Detroit Lions draft picks (1970–present)

Detroit Lions draft picks (1970–present) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured list candidates/Detroit Lions draft picks (1970–present)/archive1

Nominator(s): Hey man im josh (talk) 17:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

This list is based on Green Bay Packers draft picks (1970–present), which was promoted June 3, 2024. I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all the criteria and as part of what I hope to be my first featured topic. This is part 3 of 4 of my work in progress featured topic, which is centered on the recently promoted Detroit Lions draft history. As always, I will do my best to respond quickly to address any and all concerns that are brought up. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Support from Gonzo_fan2007

• Support having developed the template for this list, I can state my outright support, as I don't see any deviations and my review did not pick-up any issues. That said, Hey man im josh, any reason for not including the Pride of the Lions in addition to Pro Football Hall of Famers? I'm not very familiar with their ring of honor or Detroit players in general, so more a curiosity than a request. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:45, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  @Gonzo fan2007: Thank you so much for the review and your support (and the format which I obviously store)! I was torn on whether to include the Pride of the Lions, but I opted not to do so for several reasons. One of which is that it does not currently have its own standalone article, though I'm working on solving that. Another reason is that there's currently only 20 people in the Lions' ring of honor, of which 15 are in the HOF, whereas the Packers, as of 2023, had 168 people inducted into their hall, making it more common to have people in their hall but not in the HOF. This part is also more based on "feels", but it feels like the Lions are still catching up on who should/shouldn't be included as well. You'll note that the Pride/ring of honor started in 2009 with the induction of 12 players already in the PFHOF. Again, this is just feels, but it doesn't feel properly representative of franchise legends at this point in time when it leaves out legends such as Herman Moore, Calvin Johnson, Dominic Raiola, and Wayne Walker. They went for the big names right away, but they're still working on better representing the franchise and expanding the ring from my POV. So, tl;dr – feels. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

  Sounds good, nice work! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 18:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Dylan620

I plan to do an image review in the very near future (probably once I'm finished with a source spotcheck I'm currently conducting for an FAC), but I did a quick skim of the captions and a couple of them seem... odd.

• "Da'Shawn Hand was the Lions' -round selection in the 19 draft."
• "Matthew Stafford was selected first overall in the 2009 Main article: 2009 NFL draft draft."

Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 23:34, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

@Dylan620: Ugh, those were embarrassing oversights @Dylan620. I've fixed those. The Da'Shawn Hand one was due to not filling out the cookie cutter template I was using for images. The Stafford one was a copy and paste mistake. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh: No worries, happens to all of us! I've finished the image review:

• The images are noticeably concentrated in the span of drafts from 2007 onward. I acknowledge that many of the articles for the earlier draft picks don't have any images, but there are some that do and I think it would be beneficial to include images of, say, Dennis Franklin (if you're willing to use a sixth-round pick), Bill Bowerman (tenth-round pick, and the quality isn't great, but it may be worth considering), James Jones, Boss Bailey, and/or Roy Williams.
• I'm having a hard time verifying the source for the photo of Steve Baack. I want to just AGF but "Detroit Lions individual game picture" (listed as the source on the Commons description page) is awfully vague.
• According to this, the Andre Ware photo is copyrighted by the University of Houston, which contradicts the statement on the Commons description page that the file is in the public domain. It is entirely possible that the university changed the copyright status after the file was uploaded to Commons in November 2009, but in the interest of playing it better safe than sorry, I recommend replacing this image with File:Sports Analyst, Commentator & ESPN personality Andre Ware (7172160524).jpg.
• I don't want to say this, but I feel like it's my duty as an image reviewer to do so, even if it's at the risk of sounding prudish... the current photo for Jason Hanson kind of looks like he's... erm... now obviously that isn't actually what he's doing but File:Jason Hanson kickoff cropped.jpg would be more suitable imo.
• Some captions say what year the photo was taken, while others don't – I believe this should be standardized.

Everything else looks good. I've verified the sourcing for all of the other images (including the Ware and Hanson ones that I've suggested as replacements and the images currently used in the articles for the players listed in the first bullet), each image contributes encyclopedic value to the listicle, alt text is consistently employed, and all images (except for possibly the ones of Baack and Ware) are appropriately licensed for either public domain or Creative Commons. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 21:09, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

• The images are noticeably concentrated in the span of drafts from 2007 onward. – This was indeed a problem, but I took what I could for each year.
• I acknowledge that many of the articles for the earlier draft picks don't have any images, but there are some that do and I think it would be beneficial to include images of, say, Dennis Franklin (if you're willing to use a sixth-round pick), Bill Bowerman (tenth-round pick, and the quality isn't great, but it may be worth considering), James Jones, Boss Bailey, and/or Roy Williams. – So, I was open to using the photos of anybody if there was one available for that year. What I tried to avoid doing was adding images that contained non-Lions players or players that were Lions but are wearing the jerseys of other teams. I struggled a bit with this, but I felt given the focus of the article, it was better not to show Lions' draftees wearing other other NFL team's jerseys
• I'm having a hard time verifying the source for the photo of Steve Baack. I want to just AGF but "Detroit Lions individual game picture" (listed as the source on the Commons description page) is awfully vague. – Fair point. I think it's a sick photo, but we obviously have too many questions about it to include.
• According to this, the Andre Ware photo is copyrighted by the University of Houston, which contradicts the statement on the Commons description page that the file is in the public domain. It is entirely possible that the university changed the copyright status after the file was uploaded to Commons in November 2009, but in the interest of playing it better safe than sorry, I recommend replacing this image with File:Sports Analyst, Commentator & ESPN personality Andre Ware (7172160524).jpg. – Bummer, another photo I really liked, but I'm not finding any internet archives to verify that the copyright was what's listed at commons at the time. Replaced the image, per your suggestion, but I used a cropped version of that image.
• I don't want to say this, but I feel like it's my duty as an image reviewer to do so, even if it's at the risk of sounding prudish... the current photo for Jason Hanson kind of looks like he's... erm... now obviously that isn't actually what he's doing but File:Jason Hanson kickoff cropped.jpg would be more suitable imo. – Do you have a different image suggestion? Jason Hanson is quite the franchise legend, and I tried to avoid showing players from the back when possibly.
• Some captions say what year the photo was taken, while others don't – I believe this should be standardized. – I typically only did this for instances where an image shows a person who's not currently in playing shape/attire. Unfortunately it's difficult to determine the year in a lot of instances. If I had it my way, it would be players in Lions gear the entire way through with no years being necessary to state. But I felt it better to include images of the players in their 60s as opposed to vast parts with no images at all.

Thanks for the feedback @Dylan620. I don't typically include a ton of images, but I tried to include a lot in this instance. I aimed to prioritize pictures of players in Lions apparel, then focused on simply including an image at all. I tried to avoid including images of players wearing jerseys of other teams, given the focus, and avoided group shots or cropped them when I could. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure Josh – you make reasonable points, though in keeping with where an image shows a person who's not currently in playing shape/attire I would encourage you to add the year to the photo of Leon Crosswhite. As for Hanson, I've tried my hand at a crop – what do you think? There are presently only two images of Hanson on Commons (excluding the crop), and a search for Flickr uploads under compatible licensing came up dry. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 23:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the catch with Crosswhite @Dylan620, I've made that fix. I've also taken your advice and used a cropped version of the image for Jason Hanson, though I went with File:Detroit Lions placekicker Jason Hanson at the 2012 Lions training camp (cropped 2).jpg. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:40, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks good to me, Josh. I note that the Baack photo is still in the listicle, and while I agree with you that it's a great photo (indeed, it reminds me of an old newspaper clipping, and that gives it an antiquated charm), I unfortunately still think the photo should be removed, since I haven't been able to verify the sourcing or copyright status. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 18:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Woops, taken care of the Baack photo @Dylan620. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I think we're good to go – support! Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 19:14, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Pseud 14

• Support - nothing that I can think of that requires further improvement after my read and is aligned with similar FLs. Pseud 14 (talk) 15:28, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you very much for the lookover! Every extra set of eyes is a benefit :) Hey man im josh (talk) 15:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Kommentare

• Suggest changing "Since 1970, two players drafted by the Lions have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame" to "Two players since 1970 drafted by the Lions have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame", as the previous wording could indicate that two players drafted before 1970 have been inducted since 1970
• That's it I think - great work once again! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:24, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

  @ChrisTheDude: I've rephrased it to "Two players drafted by the Lions since 1970 have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame" – Is this acceptable? Thank you very much for taking a look and providing feedback, I very much appreciate it! Hey man im josh (talk) 14:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

  That's actually exactly what I meant to put but I see now that I messed up the copy and paste :-D Now more than happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Driveby from Queen of Hearts

per MOS:ORDER, the images should be below the {{main}} on each section. Queen of Hearts ^talk 22:23, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Damn. @Queen of Hearts, I moved the images below {{main}} because having that template above the images moved the images down, which messed with the spacing a bit. Images start on the next line instead of the same line (visually) with how it's currently set up. I'll definitely fix it on Monday when I'm on PC again, but do you have any suggestions on how to deal with that? Hey man im josh (talk) 22:30, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Queen of Hearts, I think you are misreading the MOS. Unless I am missing something, the section you are referencing is Section #1 in MOS:ORDER, which has hatnotes as #3 and images as #10 in the placement order. However, Section #1 in MOS:ORDER is only referencing the placement of different things Before the article content. This placement is important to make sure everything shows up in the right place at the beginning of the article, such as not having hatnotes be placed after the infobox. Section #2 in MOS:ORDER covers the placement of different things within the Article content. The part you are referencing is clearly the article content, and Section #2 says nothing about the placement of hatnotes relative to images. Hey man im josh, unless I am missing something, this change should not be made. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Schminnte

Did someone say source review? Sources are reliable for information cited, references are formatted consistently with dates all to MDY and consistent links, and all references are archived.

Onto spotchecks:

• 1, 10, 14, 16, 32, 40, 49 and 59 are all passes.
• 5 and 6 are passes, but just verify the same thing. Do we need both?
• Ditto above for 7, 8 and 9 (why was 6 afraid of 7?), why do we need three sources for an uncontroversial claim?
• 18 is a partial pass, but does not verify The Lions have taken part in every modern NFL draft since 1970. Is this a SKYISBLUE situation?
• Am I missing something on 33, because I see no mention of any of the "Pro teams"?

No quibbles on prose. Will be happy to support after concerns are addressed, nice work. Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 21:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

• 5 and 6 are passes, but just verify the same thing. Do we need both? – I used to have just one reference for this fact, but I eventually found one I felt was better and tacked it on instead of replacing it, which is probably what I should have done. Better to use DAZN as the source over Ford Field themselves, so I've removed the reference to Ford Field's site from this article as well as six others, all of which used two refs instead of one for this.
• Ditto above for 7, 8 and 9 (why was 6 afraid of 7?), why do we need three sources for an uncontroversial claim? – It's more to do with the fact that it's common name is the "NFL Draft" whereas it's actual name is officially the "NFL Annual Player Selection Meeting", a name that it's rarely actually called. Prior to working on the series of draft articles I actually had no idea that this was a thing. I've removed one of the refs, but I'd prefer to leave two for this case if you don't mind.
• 18 is a partial pass, but does not verify The Lions have taken part in every modern NFL draft since 1970. Is this a SKYISBLUE situation? – SKYISBLUE to me isn't the same as SKYISBLUE to everyone else, and I may have blind spots because of it. While I was trying to avoid re-using another PFR source, I'm going to do so here, which means the other source I have from The Sporting News becomes redundant, so it's been removed.
• Am I missing something on 33, because I see no mention of any of the "Pro teams"? – Good catch, thank you for that. I've added a reference to the Pro Football Hall of Fame which calls out the teams they were on in brackets. It only lists Oklahoma, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh instead of the full team names, but hopefully this is enough given the context of it being a draft of CFL and USFL players and those city names only coinciding with one team each

Thank you for the review @Schminnte! I hope all of your concerns have been addressed. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh, I think all the concerns above are resolved. Happy to support promotion. Schminnte ^{[talk to me]} 17:52, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.