Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment: Difference between revisions
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== Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4 == |
== Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4 == |
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{{hat|reason=Motion enacted and amendment request closed. [[User:Dreamy Jazz|Dreamy <i style="color:#d00">'''Jazz'''</i>]] <sup>''[[User talk:Dreamy Jazz|talk to me]]'' | ''[[Special:Contribs/Dreamy Jazz|my contributions]]''</sup> 18:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)}} |
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'''Initiated by''' [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] '''at''' 13:08, 24 May 2021 (UTC) |
'''Initiated by''' [[User:ProcrastinatingReader|ProcrastinatingReader]] '''at''' 13:08, 24 May 2021 (UTC) |
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#Unfortunately, we need to do something here. It keeps coming back. [[User:Worm That Turned|<b style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;">''Worm''</b>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User talk:Worm That Turned|<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>]]) 08:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC) |
#Unfortunately, we need to do something here. It keeps coming back. [[User:Worm That Turned|<b style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;">''Worm''</b>]]<sup>TT</sup>([[User talk:Worm That Turned|<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>]]) 08:28, 30 June 2021 (UTC) |
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== Clarification request: Pseudoscience == |
== Clarification request: Pseudoscience == |
Revision as of 18:51, 12 July 2021
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Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.
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Request name | Motions | Case | Posted |
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Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4 | Motion | (orig. case) | 12 July 2021 |
Clarification request: Pseudoscience | none | (orig. case) | 12 July 2021 |
Motion name | Date posted |
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Historical elections | 21 July 2024 |
Requests for clarification and amendment
Use this section to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
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Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4
Motion enacted and amendment request closed. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 18:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Initiated by ProcrastinatingReader at 13:08, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Statement by ProcrastinatingReaderIn several ARBPIA RMs, most recently at Talk:2021 Israel–Palestine crisis and Talk:Sheikh Jarrah property dispute, many non-500/30 editors have commented in RMs, unaware that the restriction applies to those discussions. ArbCom seemed to clarify (by majority, although not without dissent) in this ARCA that RMs are included in that provision, but didn't amend the actual remedy with their clarification. It's not particularly convenient for editors to have to link to and explain Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4#Amendment_(December_2019) (an ARCA archive) every time a comment is struck and a non-500/30 user is confused by, or objects to, the striking. Requesting that the section be amended, as it was in this amendment, so that it's clearer for users, and so that Template:ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement can be amended with the new wording as well. I think it would also help if Template:Requested move/dated was amended to include a reminder of the restriction on ARBPIA4 pages. (edit: I've cooked up something for this part at Template_talk:Requested_move#Automatic_notice_of_restrictions_on_ARBPIA_pages)
Statement by selfstudierThis happens frequently, non ec's even open Afd's in the topic area (Diff]. The problem is mainly although not exclusively with new editors that wander into the topic area without a clear idea of what's involved and don't really pay attention to the notices. I think it might continue to occur even if the notices and whatnot were all clarified, which they anyway should be. Maybe new editors need a very clear heads up about AP, IP and the rest.Selfstudier (talk) 13:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC) In practice, an RM isn't much different to an RFC (and can be just as fraught) so if a non-ec can't participate in an RFC (they can't) then they should not be able to participate in an RM either. They can discuss it (or an RFC) on the talk page, sure, why not, just not formally participate or "vote".Selfstudier (talk) 19:36, 24 May 2021 (UTC) I have to confess that I find this situation baffling. There is a procedure that experienced editors understand, or thought they did, with a theoretical hole in it, namely RMs and I guess AfDs as well, because it says "etc". Instead of filling in the hole and making things easier to explain (to inexperienced editors) we seem instead to want to make the hole(s) official, to make the explanations even more complicated and to allow once more the easy access of socks to formal discussions. An AfD is certainly not an edit request and I think it is better to think of an RM as an RFC about the title of an article.Selfstudier (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2021 (UTC) What I would want to say if it were as easy as that is something like "Non ec's cannot participate in formal discussions in IP area" where "formal discussions" means anything with a "vote", wherever it is.Selfstudier (talk) 10:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC) Statement by ShrikeWhat is the difference between RFC and RM. Though both process are not decided by majority but by strength of arguments still if there are many proponents of certain view ussally it will be decided accordingly. The provision meant to disallow socks to influence on such process so there is no logic to allow it in AFD but not in RFC which both happen on talk page --Shrike (talk) 14:37, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000An RM is essentially just a type of RfC and there is no logic to having different rules about who can contribute to them. The previous ARCA agreed with this conclusion by a clear majority, and soon afterwards a clerk summarised the decision with a footnote at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles which says " On the matter of advising editors of the rules, things are suboptimal. No ordinary editor should ever have to search ARCA. The solution is to keep Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles always up to date with all and only the current rules on display and all other stuff relegated to wikilinks. To those who want to reverse the previous decision about RMs, you should know that RMs are frequently the most hotly debated issues on ARBPIA talk pages. What will happen if the restriction is lifted is that RMs will return to the Wild West where a lot of IPs and new accounts show up and !vote as a block. I'm confident that that is often the result of off-wiki canvassing. Although closers can choose to ignore some of the chaff, why should they have to? Non-ec people who want to comment can do so outside the boundaries of the formal RM. Zerotalk 01:59, 28 May 2021 (UTC) Statement by 182.1.15.37Sorry. as an non-autoconfirmed user, i must have objectional argument about the amendment request. I think the previous ARCA agreed with this conclusion by a clear majority about, and a clerk summarised the decision with a footnote at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles which says " Statement by RandomCanadianI absolutely don't see any reason for the current discretionary sanctions page putting a clarification in a note. Statement by ZScarpiaAddressing the problem of widespread misuse of sockpuppet accounts was a major driver behind ARBPIA4, a major element of that misuse being to stack consensus-establishing discussions. In theory, consesus is supposed to be established by the quality of arguments; in practice, it often comes down to a vote in all but name. Sockpuppet accounts were being used to weigh the scales. The 500/30 rule was introduced to make life more difficult for sockmasters (though part of its effectiveness depends on the assiduous identification and blocking of sock accounts). If I remember correctly, the allowing of commenting on affected talkpages by non-EC editors was a later concession. I think that the opening up of any process which depends on the establishment of consensus, including RMs, should be given very careful thought. In terms of explaining to non-EC editors why their comments have been struck from consensus-establishing discussions, I'm puzzled why just suppying a link to the ARBPIA General Sanction and pointing out the 500/30 restriction wouldn't, in most cases, be sufficient. ← ZScarpia 11:06, 15 June 2021 (UTC) <@Bradv:> With regard to what constitutes content, see the ARBPIA4 definition of the "area of conflict", which, at least to me, seems to imply that "content" includes more than what is contained in articles themselves:
A discussion of the wording to adopt was carried out during the ARBPIA workshop stage here, with the wording proposed by @AGK: being adopted. ← ZScarpia 14:54, 15 June 2021 (UTC) Statement by {other-editor}Palestine-Israel articles 4: Clerk notes
Palestine-Israel articles 4: Arbitrator views and discussion
Motion: Palestine-Israel articles 4In order to codify previous clarifications and make technical improvements, Remedy 5 of the Palestine-Israel articles 4 case ("ARBPIA General Sanctions") is amended:
Motion: Palestine-Israel articles 4 (2)The phrase
Enacted - Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 18:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Straw poll: Closing the amendment request without actionThis amendment request is closed without action.
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Clarification request: Pseudoscience
Initiated by Tgeorgescu at 15:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
- Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Statement by Tgeorgescu
Are the sanctions from WP:ARBPS applicable to pseudohistory? tgeorgescu (talk) 15:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@BDD: The generic dispute is how fundamentalist believers want to state their own view of the Bible and of the history of Christianity in the voice of Wikipedia, i.e. against rendering the views of mainstream Bible scholars, which fundamentalists consider them to be heretical. But it also covers nationalist pseudohistory (e.g. Dacianism). tgeorgescu (talk) 16:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.
Pseudoscience: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Pseudoscience: Arbitrator views and discussion
- My initial response to the question as posed is yes, they can be, but no, they are not always necessarily. It would depend on the claims. Scanning most of the topics listed at Pseudohistory, nothing necessarily stands out to me as 100% pseudoscience, but many could veer into that territory. "Aliens built the pyramids", no, but specifically "ancient astronauts traveled through space, and their technology can cure cancer", yes. "White people are responsible for all great historical achievements", no, but "Genetics prove that white people are superior", yes. Of course, if this is a jumping-off point to a specific dispute, I'm reserving judgment. --BDD (talk) 16:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
- Given the clarifying comment above, in this case, no. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think BDD summed up what I wanted to say quite nicely. Pseudohistory is related to pseudoscience but it's not a part of it. That said, if the same problems appear there, we can consider expanding ARBPS to it, possibly by motion. Regards SoWhy 18:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)