Wikipedia talk:Short description: Difference between revisions
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* Honolulu – a place |
* Honolulu – a place |
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Besides lists of annotated links often have some links beginning with a capital letter and some with lower case, in a context where lower case is clearly the appropriate option. And they are not adapted to the context. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] ([[User talk:Michael Hardy|talk]]) 17:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC) |
Besides lists of annotated links often have some links beginning with a capital letter and some with lower case, in a context where lower case is clearly the appropriate option. And they are not adapted to the context. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] ([[User talk:Michael Hardy|talk]]) 17:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC) |
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Here is a capitalization correction: |
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* Paris – a place |
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* Berlin – A place |
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* Honolulu – a place |
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That's what lists of annotated links look like. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] ([[User talk:Michael Hardy|talk]]) 17:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 17:59, 2 July 2024
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adding a generator to Template:infobox musical
I have made a short description generator for infobox musical and I just want some extra eyes on it before I add it to the template.
{{#if:{{Has short description}} |<!--Do nothing--> |{{short description|{{#if:{{#invoke:string|match|{{{premiere_date|}}}|%d%d%d%d|ignore_errors = true}}|{{#invoke:string|match|{{{premiere_date|}}}|%d%d%d%d|ignore_errors = true}} m| M}}usical{{#if:{{{music|}}}{{{lyrics|}}}|{{#ifeq:{{Plain text|{{{music|}}}}}|{{Plain text|{{{lyrics|}}}}}|{{spaces}}by {{Plain text|{{{music|}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks! -1ctinus📝🗨 01:23, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- If you put it in the sandbox, you can test it at Special:ExpandTemplates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 07:58, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
- A version with fixed bugs has been added to the template, It seems to be working well. -1ctinus📝🗨 17:38, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Good articles appear to be done
Searching -hastemplate:"Short description" hastemplate:"Good article" isn't returning anything for me, do we cross it off the project tasks checklist? Orchastrattor (talk) 02:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Without short description
Hi short description experts, if you're interested some Italian foods are without short description (e.g., gelo di melone). JacktheBrown (talk) 20:35, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Using the SD category script when looking at Category:Italian cuisine and its subcategories should make it easy to pick out the 5 to 10% of articles without SDs. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:20, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Jonesey95, in some cases User:1234qwer1234qwer4/shortdescs-in-category.js is more helpful for adding short descriptions. — Qwerfjkltalk 17:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I've done a few. It was easy to fix Gelo di melone in just one click. MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Articles that are simultaneously both "Short description matches Wikidata" and "Short description is different from Wikidata"
It appears that articles can be simultaneously placed in both the Short description matches Wikidata category and the seemingly inconsistent category Short description is different from Wikidata. For example, see UEFA Europa Conference League and 2024–25_CONCACAF_Nations_League. Can this phenomenon be investigated to help determine if there is an appropriate way to fix it? Thank you. Coining (talk) 02:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think this is because the infoboxes of these two pages (Template:Infobox football tournament and Template:Infobox international football competition) also automatically generate short descriptions. These were later overridden by a manual short description that matches the Wikidata description, but for some reason the automatic shortdesc, which differs from the Wikidata description, is still being detected. For example, I removed the manually overriding short description on 2024–25 CONCACAF Nations League, and now the page is only categorised under Category:Short description is different from Wikidata. Not sure how to fix this though. Liu1126 (talk) 10:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Much thanks for at least, seemingly, finding a manual solution. I'll await any further advice, but I may proceed by bringing up your observation on those template talk pages. Coining (talk) 13:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Also see this less-watched discussion page, where other options were discussed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, it seems that the fix used by Template:Infobox film still fails; Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel, for example, uses infobox film but is still double categorised, which is very strange since the conditional should, in theory, prevent the dual invocation of Module:SDcat that is causing the problem.
- In the final comment in Wikipedia talk:Short description/Archive 8#Adding tracking categories, RexxS said that there's no easy general solution because Lua can't simply get the local short description from page_props, so I guess we'll just have to bear with it until someone does a whole revamp of the code. Liu1126 (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Infobox film in that "Alvin" article is working fine; it's {{Infobox video game}} that is causing the dual categories in that one. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, you're right. I just searched
incategory:"Short description matches Wikidata" AND incategory:"Short description is different from Wikidata" AND hastemplate:"Infobox film"
and found a few results, but upon closer inspection it seems that none of these are caused by Infobox film itself. Guess the fix works then, though I don't know if it would be worth the effort making this standard for all automatic sdescs. Liu1126 (talk) 19:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, you're right. I just searched
- Infobox film in that "Alvin" article is working fine; it's {{Infobox video game}} that is causing the dual categories in that one. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Liu1126, can you help me to understand why you believe that it is the templates that are automatically adding the short descriptions? In the UEFA Europa Conference League article, the errant short description was added well after the template (see Version comparison showing edit in September 2020. Coining (talk) 13:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Some templates have an automatic short description embedded within their code (at the end of the template code, enclosed within
<includeonly>
tags), like the two I mentioned above. This short description doesn't appear inside the wikitext of the target page (because the template is transcluded), and it gets overridden when an explicit instance of Template:Short description is added to the target page (due to its noreplace parameter). See Wikipedia:WikiProject Short descriptions#Auto-generated and bot-generated descriptions for more info. These manual short descriptions aren't necessarily "errant"; in cases where the automatic short description isn't ideal, it is recommended to manually override them. Liu1126 (talk) 14:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Some templates have an automatic short description embedded within their code (at the end of the template code, enclosed within
- Also see this less-watched discussion page, where other options were discussed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Much thanks for at least, seemingly, finding a manual solution. I'll await any further advice, but I may proceed by bringing up your observation on those template talk pages. Coining (talk) 13:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Finally under a million!
We hit a big milestone today. It may have been my edit (I have been updating a ton of templates) or somebody else's edit, but we have hit the final million milestone.
(Pardon my weird CSS)
-1ctinus📝🗨 01:39, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Woohoo! GraziePrego (talk) 02:05, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yay! :-) In December 2022, we went below 1.5 million which means we added 500,000 short descriptions in 1.5 years. If we continue at this rate, we will have completed the task of adding short descriptions in three years. Robby.is.on (talk) 09:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Redirects with short descriptions
Editors who watch this page may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Redirect#Question on redirects with short descriptions. Certes (talk) 16:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Long and/or bad short descriptions
Just wanted to report that I've been shortening or otherwise changing short descriptions that match common mistakes, using a quarry script.[1] I know other methods of searching are available but I've found a nice workflow this way. I can turn on one or two filters to get a bit of variety with the type of problem being corrected.
So far I've managed to prune down all the SDs over 100 characters and nearly all those of exactly 100 characters. Counting all the SDs in excess of 60 characters, there's over 100 thousand such articles that may need attention. It's steady work :) Wizmut (talk) 19:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for doing God’s work for short descriptions. It would be awesome if you were able to track long short descriptions generated from templates if it’s possible. I wager there’s a lot of template generated short descriptions between 80-99 characters hiding in sight. -1ctinus📝🗨 20:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
- I've looked into your question, but the only coherent output I've gotten is a list of articles which have SD-generating templates that are not generating any SD: [2] I'm not sure why this happens but there's thousands of them.
- The problem with finding induced SDs is that the database which tracks instances of templates on pages, templatelinks, will say that Template:Short description appears on any page with either an explicit or induced SD. Overall my attempts at distinguishing between the two using the database have come up short. Wizmut (talk) 07:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
Proposal of creating a short description for Template:Infobox book
I am working on a proposal for creating a short description of Template:Infobox book in the template's talk page. Any constructive help to improve the proposal would be greatly appreciated. -1ctinus📝🗨 00:57, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Article with two Short descriptions
Greetings, Asking if anyone here can check article Patil_(Koli_title) that has 2 short descriptions. I'm not sure if that is Okay? Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 15:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I removed the more redundant one. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 15:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Inherit?
Sometimes, an infobox sets a good SD and we really do not want the text to be overridden by a local SD in the article. So we have a problem:
- If we leave the article without a local SD template, there is the danger that somebody else will add one (to "fix" the article) and so block the infobox value.
- If we "import" the SD text from the infobox to a local template, this means that any future improvement to the infobox SD text will be lost.
Do we:
- accept that, if we "import" the infobox SD text into an article and later the infobox SD text is improved, then we just have to repeat the import for all of the articles using the infobox
- accept that, if we "import" the infobox SD text into an article and later the infobox SD text is improved, then we just have to not mind
- add some sort of comment to the article text saying not to create a local SD, and accept that few people will see it or read it
- treat an empty SD as being valid (do not add the article to Category:Pages with empty short description) so the empty SD marks the article as "fixed" but also does not set the local SD value
- invent a new SD value of "inherit" which (being special like "none") does not set the SD, but allows the value to be inherited from a subsequent infobox
Thoughts? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 15:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- When is a short description that is identical for every article that uses that infobox better than a local SD (assuming the local SD is specific to the article)? Schazjmd (talk) 16:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:SDCONTENT, the short description is part of the article content, and is subject to the normal rules on content. So it should always be possible by local consensus to override any 'default' infobox text. Of course, local consensus may occasionally be worse than the infobox version, but that's just a feature of "the normal rules on [editing] content". I don't think it's something we need to worry about too much. MichaelMaggs (talk) 21:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Per the above comments, if "we" do not want the infobox's SD to be overwritten, "we" should put the article on our watchlist and ensure that the article's content is not changed in an undesirable way. Perform option #3 above, a hidden comment, if necessary. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:48, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Time-related adjectives
Guidelines include "Extinct group of molluscs" as an example. "Extinct" is time-related, not unlike "defunct", one of the deprecated words. Surely such permanent time-related adjectives are OK? Robin Patterson (talk) 23:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, "extinct" is definitely OK. The existing wording Avoid time-specific adjectives like "former", "retired", "late", "defunct", "closed", "current", "new", "recent", "planned", "future", etc is intended to discourage editors from constantly updating the SD as things change over time, eg from "Footballer" to "Retired footballer" or from "Company" to "Defunct company", but it doesn't really address your point. It would be better for the guidance to suggest focusing on what the subject matter is (currently) best known for: so in the first example, the subject is best known for being a footballer, not for being a retired footballer. As with "extinct", there are rare examples where time-specific adjectives are not only OK, but are really needed. If others feel the same we might consider working up some better wording. MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- An exemplary case in point
(apart from missing the WP:SD40 target)being: Woolly mammoth (Extinct species from the Quaternary period
). I would also make a case for "defunct" being acceptable in some cases too. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 09:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- An exemplary case in point
Shuffling chairs
I frequently see short description changes in my watchlist, and they frequently look like chair-shuffling ie. It's too long. Now it's shorter. Oh wait, it needs to say this, now it's longer. Oh wait, it needs to be rephrased. Oh wait, it's too short, we need to make it longer etc etc .. it would be funny if it wasn't for my poor watchlist and attention overload. I'd love to see these things moved to their own database somewhere out of mainspace. Like Wikidata or Commons. -- GreenC 16:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- You forgot the /s markup at the end of your last sentence. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:48, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- we’ve come full circle, given that wikidata was previously used. haha. the best way to possibly implement that would be for the watchlist program to have a setting to be able to ignore changes w/ shortdesc helper. -1ctinus📝🗨 00:40, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- There's the option to exclude the
#Shortdesc helper
tag in watchlists through the filter settings. Won't catch all cases of shortdesc changes (i.e. those done manually without the gadget) but should cut out a decent amount of edits (plus, editors who use shortdesc helper are more likely to be experienced in shortdesc editing and hence need less monitoring of their edits). Liu1126 (talk) 01:20, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- There's the option to exclude the
- Short descriptions are on Wikipedia because some editors here didn't want Wikidata material appearing in their articles. MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:20, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
The use of annotated links is vandalism
In Wikipedia's List of things named after Leonhard Euler, we find this:
- Euler's partition theorem – Relates the product and series representations of the Euler function Π(1-x^n)
Do I need more to prove beyond all doubt that the use of annotated links is vandalism? Every Wikipedia article that uses an annotated link to that article will see THAT! Including this:
- Π(1-x^n)
Is THAT how we now do mathematical notation in Wikipedia articles? We will now discard an deprecate all the work that's gone into WP:MOSMATH and condone things like THAT?
In articles we can write
- Π(1 − xn).
To be fully explicit I will point out several obvious things:
- A minus sign differs from a stubby little hyphen (as you see above).
- Spaces precede and follow a minus sign when it is used as a binary operation symbol (as you see above), unlike what is done when it is a unary operation symbol.
- Variables are italicized. (Unlike things like cos, log, max, sup, det, etc., and unlike parentheses and other punctuation.)
- We have the ability to write xn rather than x^n.
- We also have the ability to write
Now annotated links come along and tell us we must write like illiterate cave men. Michael Hardy (talk) 16:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is another option: fix the short description to match our guidance. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Jonesey95: Not an option, last time I checked. Superscripts in short descriptions are not allowed. Nor italics, if I recall correctly. Have those bugs been fixed? Michael Hardy (talk) 17:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Jonesey95: You've got to be kidding: You changed it so that it says "Theorem in number theory." Do you really think it would be appropriate in List of things named after Leonhard Euler to describe that item by saying "Theorem in number theory"? Many of the other items in that same list are theorems in number theory, and obviously those interested in that list will want immensely more specificity that "Theorem in number theory". It is as if a list containing miscellaneous geographic locations that satisfy some criterion said:
- Paris – a place
- Berlin – a place
- Honolulu – a place
Besides lists of annotated links often have some links beginning with a capital letter and some with lower case, in a context where lower case is clearly the appropriate option. And they are not adapted to the context. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC) Here is a capitalization correction:
- Paris – a place
- Berlin – A place
- Honolulu – a place
That's what lists of annotated links look like. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)