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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-07-17}} </div><!--Volume 19, Issue 14--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2023-07-17|Single-page]] * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] * [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 09:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script ([[User:Evad37/SPS]]) --></div></div>
<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2023-07-17}} </div><!--Volume 19, Issue 14--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2023-07-17|Single-page]] * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] * [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 09:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script ([[User:Evad37/SPS]]) --></div></div>
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== Introduction to contentious topics ==
{{ivmbox | image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg |imagesize=50px | bg = #E5F8FF | text = You have recently edited a page related to '''gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them''', a topic designated as '''[[WP:AC/CT|contentious]]'''. This standard message is designed as an introduction to contentious topics and <em>does <strong>not</strong> imply that there are any issues with your editing</em>.

A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as ''contentious topics''. These are specially-designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have special powers in order to reduce disruption to the project.

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<p>Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics ''procedures'' you may ask them at the [[WT:AC/C|arbitration clerks' noticeboard]] or you may learn more about this contentious topic [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender and sexuality|here]]. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{tl|Ctopics/aware}} template. </p>}}<!-- Derived from Template:Contentious topics/alert/first -->
[[File:Commons-emblem-notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] You have recently made edits related to the English Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[Wikipedia:Article titles|article titles policy]]. This is a standard message to inform you that the English Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]] and [[Wikipedia:Article titles|article titles policy]] is a designated contentious topic. This message <em>does <strong>not</strong> imply that there are any issues with your editing</em>. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see [[Wikipedia:Contentious topics]]. <!-- Derived from Template:Contentious topics/alert -->

It is strongly contra-indicated to [[WP:ASPERSIONS|cast aspersions]] (across two [[WP:Contentious topics]] at once!) at other editors for using singular-''they'' as a generic replacement for neopronouns, following our own community consensus to do so and broad current practice across the English-writing world, on the basis of what seems to be your own rather extreme advocacy position (which many trans/enby people strenuously disagree with) that generically skirting neopronouns with ''they'' objectively "is" misgendering and that it is an "offense". Branding other editors as misgenderers is highly likely to be taken as [[WP:CIVIL|uncivil]], [[WP:BATTLEGROUND|battlegrounding]], and possibly a [[WP:NPA|personal attack]]. You can make your point without playing aspersion-casting, judgemental games, e.g. with phrasing like "using ''they'' instead of neoprouns" instead of "using the wrong pronouns"; trying "may be interpreted by someone as misgendering" instead of "is an act of misgendering"; considering "could be interpreted as the same kind of behavior" instead of "all constitute pretty much the same offense"; etc.

I'll remind you of your own wording: "[This] is a topic of discussion and debate. There's no definitive answer ..., and opinions will vary. But ... claiming zoom is wrong or being logically inconsistent simply because zoom's views on pronouns and gendering are different from your own feels like a losing one." So is using [[guilt by association]] and {{lang|la|[[ad hominem]]}} labels like "misgendering" against other editors simply for having a slightly different socio-politico-cultural stance than your personal view, to try to [[WP:WIN]]; it's a losing, fallacious argument that is poisonous to actual discussion, debate, and varying of opinions.

PS: Some helpful material on adjusting from an antagonistic "advocacy argumentation" habit (one which I arrived here with as well, many years ago, having been a professional activist) to a collegial consensus-forming process can be found at: [[WP:HOTHEADS]], [[WP:ACTIVISM]], [[WP:ADVOCACY]], [[WP:GREATWRONGS]], [[WP:NOT#SOAPBOX]]. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 02:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:58, 25 July 2023


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See also:

GABgab 15:17, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@GeneralizationsAreBad: Many thanks. Looks like I've got some studying to do! -- FeRDNYC (talk) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Dan Bilzerian

Hi there! I'm not sure exactly how to link to it, but I've added some further discussion to your comment on the Dan Bilzerian talk page, and I'm going to make an attempt to better summarize the cited source.47.224.90.232 (talk) 06:23, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

About Virtual CD ROM Switching

Hello FeRDNYC, I doublechecked the versions. You are right, I removed the wrong link by mistake. Sorry. Thanks for taking the time to review and write a detailed explanation! Actually I'm planning to translate this article. That's why I was checking the sources.
Dr.KBAHT (talk) 16:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)Dr.KBAHT[reply]

User scripts/List

Hi, regarding this discussion Wikipedia_talk:User_scripts/Archive_6#Collapsed_install_codes which has since been archived, I wanted to note that the issue has now been resolved through a MediaWiki-side patch (phab:T276741). Cheers! – SD0001 (talk) 05:07, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Hey! Think you could remove /* {{pp|small=yes}} */ from User:FeRDNYC/signpost sandbox.css? It's currently polluting Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates since the page isn't currently protected (user-space css/js protection doesn't count). Thanks! Aidan9382 (talk) 08:50, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Would you mind removing the protection template (first line) from User:FeRDNYC/signpost sandbox.css? With it, the page is added to Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates. Thanks! :) ~ Eejit43 (talk) 22:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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It is strongly contra-indicated to cast aspersions (across two WP:Contentious topics at once!) at other editors for using singular-they as a generic replacement for neopronouns, following our own community consensus to do so and broad current practice across the English-writing world, on the basis of what seems to be your own rather extreme advocacy position (which many trans/enby people strenuously disagree with) that generically skirting neopronouns with they objectively "is" misgendering and that it is an "offense". Branding other editors as misgenderers is highly likely to be taken as uncivil, battlegrounding, and possibly a personal attack. You can make your point without playing aspersion-casting, judgemental games, e.g. with phrasing like "using they instead of neoprouns" instead of "using the wrong pronouns"; trying "may be interpreted by someone as misgendering" instead of "is an act of misgendering"; considering "could be interpreted as the same kind of behavior" instead of "all constitute pretty much the same offense"; etc.

I'll remind you of your own wording: "[This] is a topic of discussion and debate. There's no definitive answer ..., and opinions will vary. But ... claiming zoom is wrong or being logically inconsistent simply because zoom's views on pronouns and gendering are different from your own feels like a losing one." So is using guilt by association and ad hominem labels like "misgendering" against other editors simply for having a slightly different socio-politico-cultural stance than your personal view, to try to WP:WIN; it's a losing, fallacious argument that is poisonous to actual discussion, debate, and varying of opinions.

PS: Some helpful material on adjusting from an antagonistic "advocacy argumentation" habit (one which I arrived here with as well, many years ago, having been a professional activist) to a collegial consensus-forming process can be found at: WP:HOTHEADS, WP:ACTIVISM, WP:ADVOCACY, WP:GREATWRONGS, WP:NOT#SOAPBOX.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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