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::{{u|CapnJackSp}}: That was a copy-and-paste error. I, of course, did not intend to edit your signature. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup> 21:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
::{{u|CapnJackSp}}: That was a copy-and-paste error. I, of course, did not intend to edit your signature. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup> 21:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:::Fine. I had re-pasted your comment, but seems you had also done the same. I have removed the duplication from my end. [[User:CapnJackSp|Captain Jack Sparrow]] ([[User talk:CapnJackSp|talk]]) 21:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:::Fine. I had re-pasted your comment, but seems you had also done the same. I have removed the duplication from my end. [[User:CapnJackSp|Captain Jack Sparrow]] ([[User talk:CapnJackSp|talk]]) 21:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

== Curious ==

Been following the article on [[Hardeep Singh Nijjar]] due to the current news and also following discussions on talk page of the article. New user [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wrythemann Wrythemann] has raised curiosity as this user account was created on Sep 5, 2023 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Wrythemann] and instantly jumped right into noticeboards discussions, nothing like a new user would do with comments to other users about wiki policies (something a new user wouldn't know about right away). It felt like this user isn't new. I mean there is nothing that indicates this user is new. Could be one of the user who was blocked and created new account or could be a duplicate account of another user. This below is my finding which I thought might be of interest. Again, this is just curiosity, I might be wrong.
[https://interaction-timeline.toolforge.org/?wiki=enwiki&user=Suthasianhistorian8&user=Wrythemann]
[https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=Suthasianhistorian8&users=Wrythemann&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki] [[Special:Contributions/199.81.206.143|199.81.206.143]] ([[User talk:199.81.206.143|talk]]) 17:18, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:18, 27 September 2023

Belva Ann Lockwood
Photograph credit: Benjamin Joseph Falk; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Happy holidays!

Happy New Year!

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year, Neutrality!

The other day, I was having a conversation with someone about holiday cards and social media. It occurred to me that, in the years since I left Facebook, the site I use most to communicate with people I like isn't actually a social media site at all. If you're receiving this, it's pretty likely I've talked with you more recently than I have my distant relatives and college friends on FB, at very least, and we may have even collaborated on something useful. So here's a holiday "card", Wikipedia friend. :) Hope the next couple weeks bring some fun and/or rest. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 18:52, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Everett P. Christopher Arboretum" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Everett P. Christopher Arboretum and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 December 30 § Everett P. Christopher Arboretum until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.

Happy New Year, Neutrality!

Happy New Year!

Neutrality,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
— Moops ⋠T⋡ 02:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops ⋠T⋡ 02:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – January 2023

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:09, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry ... but let me explain

Re this: I did what I did in the edit history because simply leaving a message here would not have been seen by the same amount of people who saw what you said in your edit summary.

I know you meant well. Unfortunately, when we (especially those of us who are admins) make statements asserting the absoluteness of a policy provision that is, in fact, not quite so absolute, people take it as a given and this sort of rulemaking by assumption leads to more friction elsewhere on the project that could be avoided. I remember years ago when YOUTUBE was instituted as "no linking to videos of copyrighted content posted without the permission of the copyright owner", which it still is (prompted mainly by people posting links to music videos that some random person had posted to their channel, in the days before Vevo helped us solve this problem to everyone's mutual benefit). Too soon it became understood as "no linking to YouTube at all", and herds of well-meaning editors provoked edit wars that may have driven some newer editors away who would have stayed otherwise.

And even today, in reviewing reports to WP:ANEW, I find that there are people who believe any edit in a content dispute that comes down on what I agree is the right side of policy exempts them from 3RR, even removing unsourced content (per WP:3RRNO, that exemption for "unsourced or poorly sourced content" only applies to contentious BLP-related statements). So then they get mad about how they got "blocked for doing the right thing."

So I got a little rankled by that and maybe I did too much in response, but you deserved the courtesy of my explanation as to why. Daniel Case (talk) 02:42, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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wiki entries

Neutrality -- saw your recent "un do" edits on the Esper page. You commented that there was "too much promo and primary sourcing" or something like that. As a new wiki editor, I'd appreciate your help elaborating. What I tried to do by breaking out a new section called "political views," was to make it more consistent with other bios I see out there, while also more clearly grouping these issues -- added by you, me, and at least one other person -- in a section other than "Memoirs, book tour, and trump criticism," which didn't seem to be an apt title for issues about his comments on immigration, his actions on the Chinese spy balloon, or his own description of his politics. Also, I could just see this section growing and being less clear for readers if the material keeps getting put under "Memoirs, book tour, etc -- which these things clearly are not. Also, what do you see as "promo"? I'm trying to be balanced on these things while filling in this person's bio consistent with others. Thanks for your help! LuvOurVets703 (talk) 12:06, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Neutrality -- just flagging my questions/comments for you again. Hope you will reply. Thanks LuvOurVets703 (talk) 19:22, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Precious anniversary

Precious
Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:16, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – May 2023

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Happy First Edit Day!

r/Sino Brigading

Hi, Neutrality. I think some brigading is going on at List of sovereign states by homeless population.

First, about a week ago I saw this thread at r/sino complaining about China's homelessness figure the article: [1]

Shortly afterward, a duo of newly registered editors began editing the article.

DragonEgg lowered China's homelessness figure and replaced a highly reliable secondary source from The Lancet with an extremely dubious, amateur looking one: [2]

DragonEggLol describes the source and its reasoning as "wildly inadequate, counting migrants as homeless people", but I don't think that's accurate. He also described the figure as "insane" at the talk page and high-fived with another newly registered editor: [3]

From the source removed by DragonEggLol:

This situation is often profoundly worse in low- and middle-income countries like China. It is estimated that 300 million people in the country—home to 1.4 billion Chinese—are homeless.3"

I think this is obviously brigading activity given the timing of these edits. I also think The Lancet source is reliable and belongs in the article. M (talk) 13:11, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Neutrality: I found more sources on this.
Chica, Vale & Vale, Taylor & Francis, 2019:
But if we expand the definition of homelessness to incorporate nearly 300 million peasant-workers living a marginal existence on the periphery of cities, the homeless population in China balloons...
Homelessness in China, Della Qiu, Carole Zufferey and Ziyi Tong, Routledge, 2023:
Definitions of homelessness are socially and culturally constructed. China has tended to focus on 'street children' and 'vagrants and beggars' instead of using the term 'homeless' (Zhang, 2016). There are no official counts of homelessness in China and estimates vary depending on the definition used. Unlike broader definitions of homelessnes in Western countries that debate min8mum housing standards, dominant understandings of homelessness in Asian countries focus on visible urban homelessness, such as people living rough. (Kennett and Mizuchi, 2010; Zufferey and Yu, 2018).
However, reports from the Ministry of Civil Affairs (MoCA) do provide statistics on cervice centre responses (to 'beggars and vagrants wihout assured living sources'). In 2015, there were 1,766 Aid Stations and 275 Children Rescue and Protection Centres provided 3.7 million instances of assistance, including 518,000 instances outside of the Aid Stations (Qiu and Zufferey, 2018). In 2017, the MoCA reported that 1,623 Aid Stations provided 2,154,000 instances of assistance, including 523,000 instances of assistance to minor children nationwide. It has been found that China assisted '17.7 million vagrants and beggars from November 2012 to June 2019 (He et al., 2020, p.454). These statistics illustrate the sheer size of the population and government response to people who are 'homeless" in China. China has few people living rough but many rural workers living in overcrowded and unsanitary housing conditions on the edge of cities, which would be 'nearly 300 million homeless' (He et al., 2020, p. 453).
Scholars have argued that responses to homelessness must be based on traditional Chinese wisdom associsted with 'rebuilding the collectivist 'concept of the universal family (family - tian xia)' and belonging because it is not just about 'housing deficit' (He et al., 2020, p.466).
The article Homelessness in China probably needs to be TNT'd, as there are similar edits there, including some by the same editors I mentioned in my first comment to you. M (talk) 15:20, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – June 2023

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

edit conflict

Please be mindful not to overwrite others' edits when you get an edit conflict notice. Thank you. Toddst1 (talk) 04:28, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please see my Talk note on Cannon in the Indictment article

The Court Clerk is the new RS on Cannon as the judge for duration, pending recusal or challenge. Fixing the WP article is beyond me. Thanks for all your work & leadership! Left Central (talk) 23:31, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Odd edit summary

Seek and obtain consensus at talk before restoring, per WP:ONUS - this is, in particular, an extraordinary claim cited to an op-ed in an opinion magazine

You think it's an extraordinary claim that somebody was fed disinformation about aliens? It's not extraordinary at all, it's the simplest explanation. Viriditas (talk) 22:01, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Viriditas: I think it's WP:UNDUE to include speculative claims from an obscure writer in the National Review, yes. Take your arguments for inclusion to the article talk page if you wish. Neutralitytalk 22:03, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a speculative claim, it is the simplest explanation. Ross Douthat made the same argument in The New York Times about the same subject ("Does the U.S. Government Want You to Believe in U.F.O.s?") I'm genuinely curious why you think this is an extraordinary claim. I already gave you one previous example of Paul Bennewitz, there are many more. Viriditas (talk) 22:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is the definition of speculation. The fact that something similar occurred in the past does not render it otherwise. Perhaps it is plausible speculation. That doesn’t make it not speculative. Neutralitytalk 02:51, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Out of context, I concede the point; within the context of the event itself—someone in the government giving Grusch information about aliens and retrieved alien craft—it is not so speculative ("disinformation is false information deliberately spread in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth"). Mick West and others have run the numbers and probabilities on what Grusch has said. It's impossible. The skies would be filled with alien traffic based on the number of crashed retrieved vehicles when you compare it to the rate of crashed airliners. The simplest explanation is that Grusch was given false information. This goes beyond mere conjecture. And yes, as the libbiest lib that ever libbed, I'm not fond of citing the National Review (WP:RSP: "There is no consensus on the reliability of National Review. Most editors consider National Review a partisan source whose statements should be attributed. The publication's opinion pieces should be handled with the appropriate guideline. Take care to ensure that content from the National Review constitutes due weight in the article and conforms to the biographies of living persons policy") but I think that's a bias you need to get over. It's considered the official magazine of record for American conservatives and has been around for 67 years. Its editor, Rich Lowry, is a man that bugs the heck out of me, but as much as a stopped clock is right twice a day, Andrew Follett wrote a good great piece on this subject; you should at least live up to your user name and give it the respect it deserves, but I'm guessing you never read it, hence our disagreement. Viriditas (talk) 10:02, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve read many NR/NRO columns over the years, including this one, so you can kindly take your patronizing “guesses” and pitch them off a cliff. The bottom line is that due-weight principles apply to all articles, and speculative op-eds by marginal opinion writers positing a government conspiracy usually don’t meet that test. Neutralitytalk 14:03, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This isn’t about a conspiracy, it’s about government secrecy which led to disinformation, which gave rise to conspiracies. This notion of disinformation has received significant coverage in this regard, and is mentioned by most sources. Historically, this level of secrecy arose out of the origins of the Manhattan Project, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Nevada Test Site, and the technology used by the government agencies who worked in these areas. Viriditas (talk) 16:22, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – July 2023

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Kenly Kiya Kato moved to draftspace

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"Wikipedia:LTA/GK)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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2023 White House cocaine incident

I really don't want to revert your entire edit, but you removed well sourced and encyclopedic text. Why did you remove that the cocaine was first found in the library? This is true, and important, and one of the reasons some are calling this a "cover up" is because the cocaine kept moving from place to place. Your edit was not appropriate. Please save both of us time and hours of endless talk page discussions and revert...then start over if you must. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:04, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

With this edit you removed two sources. Please restore the one you don't consider "horse manure". Magnolia677 (talk) 22:16, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In short: No. I suggest you review WP:ONUS and WP:BLP. Those two refs I are both low-quality (at the very least). As for “some are calling this a cover-up” (echoes of “many people are saying”): we make our content decisions based on faithfully summarizing and contextualizing the reliable sources. We do not uncritically repeat fringe claims, especially not when they baselessly accuse others of wrongdoing. Neutralitytalk 22:34, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My talk page

Hi! Thanks for reverting vandalism on my talk page! Would you consider RevDel under RD2 appropriate here? It‘s clearly grossly offensive and without any value whatsoever. Thank you for your time :) Actualcpscm (talk) 16:11, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actualcpscm: Done, thanks. Neutralitytalk 16:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – August 2023

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New Hampshire Primary 1980 addition question

Hello,

I learned how the 1980 Republican Presidential primary race was significantly changed by the February 23, 1980 Republican debate where Ronald Reagan shouted, I am paying for this microphone, Mr Green! [sic]" at the debate moderator Jon Breen. Reagan's outburst saved his 1980 campaign and helped him win the primary and his first Presidential term.

Can you please add a new section with this information to the "New Hampshire presidential primary" Wikipedia page?

Thank you! TheXFactorSuperFan153 (talk) 21:01, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii § Campaign to upload Lāhainā photographs

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New message from AquilaFasciata

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Vivek Ramaswamy § Discussion on wording for position on Identity Politics. - AquilaFasciata (talk | contribs) 21:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I see you undid a diff that added 51 archive links here I just wanted to know if you think there is utility in having archive links for certain articles that might go beyond paywalls. I generally find it very useful on sources like NYT but also many others that give you something like "X articles without subscription" before a paywall so the archived version is easier to go through. --Molochmeditates (talk) 14:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2023

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:22, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Section breaks

Since you're not intrinsically opposed, do you mind rolling back this edit[4]. There's a RfC that links to a section that you've broken with this change. Feel free to summary the section in less groups if you wish, but it's a terrible read right now without sections. Thanks. Nemov (talk) 01:27, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think editors are smart enough to figure out what the RfC is about without a link to the specific section. The RfC is rather malformed, FYI. Neutralitytalk 01:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so much for not being "intrinsically opposed." Nemov (talk) 01:39, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nemov, I don't think anyone else cares about this little content matter quite as much as you do. But the talk page discussion and RfC have gotten garbled and confusing and that's something that several of us thought we'd try to ameliorate. SPECIFICO talk 01:45, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Jim McGreevey

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Jim McGreevey, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

  • A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 18:21, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Warn

I will leave an informal warning assuming it was a good faith error, but defacing other's signature to imply political bias is quite egregious and strictly not permitted. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 21:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CapnJackSp: That was a copy-and-paste error. I, of course, did not intend to edit your signature. Neutralitytalk 21:32, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fine. I had re-pasted your comment, but seems you had also done the same. I have removed the duplication from my end. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 21:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Curious

Been following the article on Hardeep Singh Nijjar due to the current news and also following discussions on talk page of the article. New user Wrythemann has raised curiosity as this user account was created on Sep 5, 2023 [5] and instantly jumped right into noticeboards discussions, nothing like a new user would do with comments to other users about wiki policies (something a new user wouldn't know about right away). It felt like this user isn't new. I mean there is nothing that indicates this user is new. Could be one of the user who was blocked and created new account or could be a duplicate account of another user. This below is my finding which I thought might be of interest. Again, this is just curiosity, I might be wrong. [6] [7] 199.81.206.143 (talk) 17:18, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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