Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Issam Abdallah

Issam Abdallah

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Issam Abdallah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Seems like a pretty clear case of WP:BLP1E. The only details of his life beyond the event that killed him are from an obituary. An anonymous username, not my real name 14:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bibliographies, Journalism, Israel, Lebanon, and Palestine. An anonymous username, not my real name 14:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Nominator comment: Obviously this is very much not a BLP; I meant to cite WP:BIO1E, whose rules are essentially the same. An anonymous username, not my real name 02:27, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  Keep: WP:BIO1E states that "When an individual is significant for their role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both." Given that there is no article about the killing of Issam Abdallah, this policy does not seem like grounds for deletion to me. Since Abdallah was an accomplished journalist who provided breaking or exclusive coverage of other significant events, it seems more appropriate to write an article about his life as a whole, rather than the event which led to his death. An article about him also fits better within several category pages such as Category:People killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war and Category:Deaths by Israeli airstrikes. I do think that other sources should be added to the article highlighting his other journalistic work - specifically, the Reuters articles about the 2020 Beirut Explosion and the surrender of ISIS fighters which he provided notable photojournalistic coverage of. Unbandito (talk) 12:44, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Keep: There is very much a notable topic here, whether or not the page is more about the man or more about the event. WP:BLP1E notes that a single event should not alone support a biography "If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented." - but here this is evidently not the case: this is a high profile and significant shelling of a journalist team. Reporters Without Borders would not be investigating it if it were not. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

• Nominator comment: @Unbandito: and @Iskandar323: I still don't see why this individual needs his own article. The event is certainly notable, but it killed others as well, and that even if it had only affected him, the article would still be best focused and named for an event, not styled as a biography. Could we perhaps discuss moving instead? If there is any support for this idea, I am willing to clean up the article to be better suited to whatever title it is moved to. Anonymous 02:06, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  He was the only journalist killed in the incident, while six other journalists were injured. I agree that a page for the event could exist, but I am not convinced that adapting this biography is the best way of creating such a page - not least since there is now an extraordinary amount of coverage out there about Abdullah, and it warrants a standalone page. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:30, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  I still don't understand why adapting this biography wouldn't be the best way to go about such an endeavor. No matter how much coverage Abdullah gets, it is still primarily about the circumstances of his death and the reactions to it, not about his life, which is discussed in one obituary. Anonymous 14:22, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  Have you actually done a WP:BEFORE for pre-2023 coverage? Iskandar323 (talk) 17:37, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, and I performed a few more searches just now since you brought it up. I have consistently failed to find anything published before this month about Abdallah. I don't want this article to be deleted, but I do want Wikipedia's standards of notability to be upheld. Anonymous 00:14, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

  We've established that the event of Abdallah's death was notable. He is also credited for his photography in Reuters articles from the 2020 Beirut Port Blast and the 2019 surrender of ISIS fighters at Deir-Ezzor, as well as other articles. [1] [2] [3] [4]

  If his previous work as a photojournalist is not notable, this is not a sufficient argument for deletion. The article should, at most, be renamed something like "Killing of Issam Abdallah". If it were, it could still be linked under relevant categories such as Category:People killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war and Category:Deaths by Israeli airstrikes by keeping the links in those articles as they are. Unbandito (talk) 01:19, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

  Sure, and I admit that I was mistaken in nominating this for deletion. I think that moving is indeed the best course of action. However, User:Iskandar323 has opposed this and the discussion has now shifted more into a move discussion. I am ready for this to be closed, but could I at least get your view on moving? I would be more than willing to clean up the article to better suit whatever new title it is moved to. The links you provided (and I am aware you did not state this and I am not putting words in your mouth) are still insufficient to establish notability for his life per WP:JOURNALIST, as they do not qualify as secondary coverage. Anonymous 02:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not 100% opposed to renaming it as something like "Killing of Issam Abdallah", but I'm not a huge fan of such titles either. All in all, that's best left to a naming discussion. But I still think the real solution here is to create a page on the shelling of the whole journalist team on the border, which has now been the subject of considerable external investigation. And these probes aren't just about Abdullah or his killing, but the entire incident. Incidentally, if you want to wrap this up quick and move onto an RM then you can always withdraw this nomination given that there has been no support for it thus far. Iskandar323 (talk) 04:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

• The page was created by a banned editor (User:Friedjof) and has been tagged for speedy deletion per WP:CSD#G5. —Kusma (talk) 15:06, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

  The speedy tag was removed because I overlooked Iskandar's nontrivial expansion. —Kusma (talk) 16:24, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

• Delete: Fails BIO1E as a biography, fails NEVENT, NOTNEWS, LASTING as an event. No objection to a consensus redirect.  // Timothy :: talk  08:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
• Delete, per BIO1E as TimothyBlue points out. Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 10:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Keep, but move the page to "Killing of Issam Abdallah." RisingTzar (talk) 12:16, 7 November 2023 (UTC)