User talk:XMcan: Difference between revisions

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December 2022

Welcome!

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I hope you enjoy editing Wikipedia! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! — Diannaa (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

November 2023

It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote—in order to influence Talk:Ben Shapiro. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you. MrOllie (talk) 22:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let's note that you also opposed my proposals for the Lindsay page until other senior editors became involved. XMcan (talk) 22:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have me confused with someone else. I reverted one edit, it is true (one which still is not in the article) and was neutral on your other suggestions. MrOllie (talk) 22:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to reiterate the canvassing warning. You can't go to selected article and user Talk pages asking for a specific intervention on another article or page from people you believe to be sympathetic to your POV and who might be foolish enough to edit on your behalf. It is legitimate to leave a neutral notification on a genuinely closely related article's Talk page. Your canvassing on Talk:Ben Shapiro was a perfect example of how not to do that. The message was not neutral and the choice of Talk page was only tangentially relevant.

Any more of this and it is going to end up on one of the administrator's noticeboards. Please don't make that necessary. --DanielRigal (talk) 04:53, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Calling me a 'troll' on Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory is a clear Ad hominem attack, and as an experienced editor, you should know better. My post on Talk:Ben_Shapiro that you keep reversing is neutral and relevant to the LP, and therefore not against WP:CAN. Referring to it as 'tangential' and 'not neutral' reflects your POV, which I question given the Ad hominem. I have contacted three other editors who have been discussing this topic with me recently on a related page; this is also not against WP:CAN.

It's interesting that you threaten me with the administrator's noticeboard. I was actually thinking of reporting you myself if you continue with this personal harassment campaign, rather than engaging with the substance of my arguments. I'm not afraid of the Administrator's scrutiny, so stop trying to silence and intimidate me. XMcan (talk) 09:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please do, because you will inevitably get a wp:BOOMERANG for wasting everyone’s time with arguments everyone has addressed and refuted in ways you don’t like. Or better yet, don’t, just drop it and accept that it’s not going to happen. In any case people criticizing you for your disruptive behavior or reverting your canvassing campaign is not “harassment”. Dronebogus (talk) 19:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do I have to tell you Dronebogus that your deletion [1] of User to User messages is inappropriate and a form of harassment? If you think I'm in violation of rules, you are welcome to formally open a complaint. I also see that you currently have a dispute open on one of the noticeboards regarding your disruptive behavior. Do you need another one? XMcan (talk) 19:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

While I don't think this most recent canvassing was as egregious as yesterday's was, I am utterly dismayed to see this stretching into a second day. I think that, this time, it might have been legitimate to have pinged Talpedia, as they were already involved in the thread. The message itself was less egregiously biased towards a specific desired outcome but it certainly wasn't neutral either.

XMcan. Three editors have told you to step back from canvassing so going after Dronebogus is not going to get you anything other than a WP:Boomerang. While I do accept that you have dialled it back to some extent, I really do think that you need to stop it completely. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was it neutral of you calling me a troll yesterday? That said, I'm happy to say that your choice of words today is nicer and less "egregiously biased." Keep up the progress, and who knows, maybe by this time next year we'll be sending each other birthday cards. XMcan (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would also point out that going after Dronebogus in a way that spuriously seeks to leverage the other unrelated complaints against them looks a lot more like actual harassment than anything else going on here. Please don't. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are you defending him for deleting a post from another user's Talk page claiming bogus violation? Or are you just harassing me with incessant posts on mine? XMcan (talk) 20:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK. It is always sad when a long-standing Wikipedian goes off the rails but I think that I've done as much as I can to dissuade you from shooting yourself in the foot. If you really think that you are in the right here then proceed as you think best. Please don't say that you weren't warned if it goes badly. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your concern for my feet is noted. Hopefully, your next post on my page will be an apology for calling me a troll.[2] I have feelings, too. XMcan (talk) 23:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey DanielRigal, just pinging you to thank you for bringing up WP:CAN to my attention. Prior to this week, I’ve never posted discussion notices anywhere, and I’ve made some rookie mistakes trying to make them sound warm and personal. I’ve learned from my mistakes, and the next time I will use the proper neutral voice and format. XMcan (talk) 11:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that you were neutral in the other thread, MrOllie, but that’s not why I’m pinging you with this reply. I am replying to say that on reflection, I want to thank you for bringing up WP:CAN to my attention. Prior to this week, I’ve never posted discussion notices anywhere on WP, and I’ve made some rookie mistakes trying to make them sound warm and personal. I’ve learned from my mistakes, and the next time I will use the proper neutral voice and format. XMcan (talk) 11:21, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm Dronebogus. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, it's important to be mindful of the feelings of your fellow editors, who may be frustrated by certain types of interaction. While you probably didn't intend any offense, please do remember that Wikipedia strives to be an inclusive atmosphere. In light of that, it would be greatly appreciated if you could moderate yourself so as not to offend. Canvassing other users to target someone you don’t like via a totally unrelated dispute is exceptionally lousy behavior. Dronebogus (talk) 21:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm XMcan. I'd appreciate an apology for the bogus WP:CAN claims you made against me. Since Sennalen is part of our ongoing discussion, it can't be considered canvassing by any stretch of imagination. As for Talpedia, even DanielRigal agrees that they are an interested party in the topic. Posting a canned harassment notice on my Talk is another form of harassment, especially considering you initiated this by removing my message to Talpedia and subsequently posting a threatening message in my Talk. The diffs speak for themselves. Please stop this inappropriate behavior. XMcan (talk) 22:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This my second message to another user you've reverted today.[3] I was simply notifying S. of your disruptive behavior, not trying to have her do anything, certainly not "target" you. You are the one trying to influence S. to do something, namely close the discussion thread I opened. You closed it earlier but she reverted your closure, so you where trying to influence her by calling me "annoying, unproductive and disruptive".[4]. It's all in your diffs, you have no leg to stand on. Stop this harassment now, it has gone too far. No one will back you if you continue on this path. XMcan (talk) 23:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please, just stop the cultural Marxism thing. Sennalen is in partial agreement with you but her methods are far less disruptive. I’m not trying to stop her canvassing or bludgeoning a bad argument because she’s not. You on the other hand will not stop trying to sway users to your side with non-neutral talk page posts, and will not stop hammering OED like it’s some revelation directly from God on this issue. Let it rest and I’ll stop bothering you about it. Dronebogus (talk) 23:49, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Listen, I completely understand. You have resorted to personal attacks because you were unable to formulate a coherent response to either my arguments or Sennalen's. Bringing your arguments about 'cultural Marxism' to my Talk page only confirms my claim. XMcan (talk) 23:56, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Take a clue from MrOllie and DanielRigal. They are much more subtle in how they harass me. XMcan (talk) 00:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you keep casting WP:ASPERSIONS against me and other editors some admin might decide to extend your block indefinitely. A measly 72 hours is generous considering how stubbornly you insisted on continuing behavior multiple users told you was disruptive and inappropriate. Dronebogus (talk) 01:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, Dronebogus, you come to my Talk to level baseless accusations. It is you who have misrepresented my views and cast aspersions here and here. If you have a dispute with me, there is a proper place and format to litigate such disputes. My Talk page is NOT that place. DO NOT POST here. Doing so is considered WP:HUSH harassment. I have already asked you several times to stop; consider this your last warning. XMcan (talk) 11:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring / continuing civility issues

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Generalrelative (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the diffs of you reverting to include clearly disputed content: [5][6].

In addition, I see that your recent comment on the article talk page includes this explicit accusation of bad faith:[7]

Some editors want to maintain that CM and CMCT are one-to-one equivalents (fully interchangeable terms) and that any deviation from this orthodoxy is subversive. This is also the reason why some editors are bending over backwards to argue against the applicability of MOS:FIRST.

Article talk pages are not an appropriate place to speculate about the imagined motivations of other editors. Coming on the heals of a 72-hour block, one would expect you to be more circumspect. Please refrain from these behaviors in the future to save us all the hassle of adjudicating this on a noticeboard. Generalrelative (talk) 20:29, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First, Generalrelative, I must commend your writing style in the message above. It's challenging to deliver a warning while maintaining a civil tone.

Certainly, your warning might be better received if you were an uninvolved party in the content dispute. However, not only are you involved, but it could be argued that you are one of the instigators of the 'edit war,' as you term it. The page history indicates that the issues began with your sudden deletion of an image that had been part of the article for over a year.[8] Subsequently, when your deletion was reversed, you persisted.[9] Finally, you repeated a similar deletion without seeking consensus first.[10] I only reversed two deletions, not any content, especially not content that had been in place for over a year.

Furthermore, it is noteworthy that you mention supposed bad faith on my part while, in the same breath, you post this. That post could be interpreted as engaging in content war coordination. Simultaneously, it casts aspersions against fellow editors, labeling them 'fringe'—a term loaded with implications.

I'm sure someone as articulate and erudite as yourself is familiar with the expression: "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." In good faith, I assume you are aware of this expression, which compels me to issue you a WP:HUSH warning. XMcan (talk) 23:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. DanielRigal (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was in the process of collapsing your discussion at Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory#Gaslighting, but 14.202.188.111 (talk · contribs) beat me to it, and I got an edit conflict, but they did just what I would have. Since that edit is their only career edit at Wikipedia (at that address, anyway) in case you were inclined to laugh it off as an anon who doesn't know the rules, I came here to let you know that their action in collapsing your comments was entirely correct. Although you've been here over ten years, you have only 150 edits, so I'll give you some newbie slack, and just recommend that at an article Talk page, you stick strictly to the topic of how to improve the article, and avoid discussing other editors, and what their opinions or biases might or might not be. Have a look at WP:TALK (starting with the nutshell) and WP:TALKOFFTOPIC, and you should also check out WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I see now that you've been taken to ANI, so I'll let it go here, but if you have any questions, feel free to reply below, or you can go to the Wikipedia:Help desk any time. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 03:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment. In some sense, I'm a newbie; in some sense, I'm an oldie, but none of it pertains to the ANI accusations your refer to. Good luck to you, too. XMcan (talk) 03:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I promise, I will establish a connection between the quote and the article. Kindly allow me a day or two for this task. XMcan (talk) 04:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You will be reported to the Administrative Incident Notice board if you open the discussion again.

I'm issuing you this polite courtesy warning that if you open the discussion at Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory#Gaslighting up again, you will be reported to the Administrative Incidents Notice Board, as you are using the talk page improperly. The hatnote closure was made so that people could still be led to Sennallen's talk page should they want to discuss the issues raised. You should complete your statements there, where you are free to.

This will be your final warning, please let's not make this difficult, you're clearly in violation of Wikipedia's policies, and no one here has the authority to act unilaterally against them. The Administrative Incident Notice board is likely to take the fact that you were warned into account when issuing any subsequent actions. 14.202.188.111 (talk) 03:41, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, which policy are you referring to? Secondly, why are you hiding behind an IP? I know you have far more knowledge on a certain subject than an average IP. Why the IP thing? Please enlighten me. XMcan (talk) 03:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A) Using an IP is in many ways less anonymous than registering an account. B) There's no obligation on users to register an account, although that policy is being considered. C) WP:HUMAN covers some of the policies around IP users, as does WP:IP.

If you want to search Wikipedia's policies to become more familiar with them, you can type "WIKIPEDIA:" before a policy name or details of a policy in order to try to find a policy page. 14.202.188.111 (talk) 07:34, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is very unfortunate that after all this you decided once more to revert at the Talk page (diff) in order to expose a discussion that you believe belongs there, although four different editors have told you it does not. In your edit summary, you said:

Mathglot and IP, I hear you, and I respectfully disagree. If the talk page is not the place to have an open discussion, where is that place? Please cite relevant rules that prohibit this post, or please stop censoring.

but it is your actions of insisting on your own way in the face of concerted opposition that is disrespectful, contemptuous even. There is no censoring going on, and the policies have already been pointed out to you. Once again, the most basic purpose of an article Talk page is to discuss improvements to the article. Your actions violate numerous policies and guidelines, discussing other editors is a violation of WP:TALK, and your fourth edit to insist on exposing off-topic material violates WP:CONSENSUS and amounts to WP:Edit warring. There is more, but that is bad enough already. You may not discuss other editors at an article Talk page, so just don't do it, and that means collapsing your thread. Just from the point of view of courtesy, ignoring the view of everyone around you and insisting on having it your own way is not very WP:CIVIL, and comes off as arrogant and disrespectful, despite your words. I'm at a loss to understand your actions after this was already explained to you more than once. Don't you understand that you are risking a block if you don't rein it in, or don't you care?

I strongly advise you to self-revert your last change at Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory#Gaslighting; you don't have to agree with it, and you can add an edit summary saying that you don't agree with collapsing the thread but that you are doing it temporarily until there's a Consensus to keep it open, or some such if you wish. You are still inexperienced here, even if not exactly new, and it takes a while to get familiar with the numerous guidelines and policies, and so no one expects you to know them all at this point. However, if an editor points out a problem, and you keep on doing it over and over, the slack due a new user evaporates, and what's left is just the impression of a lone wolf going their own way, and everyone else can go to the devil. That is pretty much the image your are projecting; I don't know if you are aware of that. Wikipedia is at its core a collaborative enterprise, so that approach will not work.

Can I just ask what you hope to achieve at Wikipedia? Because whatever it is, if you get yourself blocked, you won't be able to pursue that goal. I've been around long enough to sniff the wind, and I can tell you that you will be blocked soon if you continue on this path. This is in no way a threat, as I have no power to block anybody; it's just a prediction from having seen this play out umpteen times before. It's kind of sad, really, as I think you have things to contribute, but it's like you're driving towards the cliff, and each time somebody yells at you to turn away, you step on the gas instead.

I've spent a lot of time and a lot of words trying to help, but I feel like it isn't helping. This is my final attempt to mediate with you and try to get you on the right path; I'll be looking for you in your next edit to undo your revert at Talk:CMct and I hope you do so. As always, feel free to reply or ask questions below, or at the Wikipedia:Help desk. I wish you the best, Mathglot (talk) 07:59, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

December 2023

Welcome to Wikipedia and thank you for your contribution(s). However, as a general rule, while user talk pages permit a small degree of generalisation, other talk pages are strictly for discussing improvements to their associated main pages, and many of them have special instructions on the top. They are not a general discussion forum about the article's topic or any other topic. If you have questions or ideas and are not sure where to post them, consider asking at the Teahouse. Thanks. Andre🚐 04:40, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Andre, we've never met. Not sure what you are referring to, but if it's about my CMCT talk post, rest assured that it will be fleshed out, as I've explained in the post. XMcan (talk) 05:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Sennalen (talk) 19:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I left you this warning since you expressed that you were unaware of policies prohibiting disruptive and off-topic talk pages. Talk pages are for constructive changes and it is not censorship to remove soapboxing and sockpuppetry. Andre🚐 21:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It’s been a week, and I find myself still drawn to your colored bus icon. Do you still feel that I've wronged you in any way, whether through my comments or otherwise? XMcan (talk) 03:04, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't wronged me, XMcan. Sorry if I am living rent-free in your head. In the future, please try to reflect. Have a good weekend. Let me know if you have any questions or follow-ups. Andre🚐 03:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

:) I have already too many tenants in my big head. Thanks for your concern ;))) Have a good one! XMcan (talk) 04:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yes… my tenants are whispering to me: there is a Marxist conspiracy trying to subvert Western culture into believing that… XMcan is the Emperor of the known world ;)))) Do bow before me, you lowly peasants!!!! Long live capitalism! 😉 XMcan (talk) 05:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this your only account?

I noticed in this comment you said that it was nearly a decade since us dinosaurs broached our concerns, which I assume means you're saying you were previously involved in the (at the time, fairly rancorous) discussions over the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory on Wikipedia; however, your edit history has only five edits prior to 2022, none of them in that topic area. -- Aquillion (talk) 07:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aquillion, by now you ought to know that our purpose here is to engage with the content and not with the creator. I understand the temptation, and in hindsight, I’ve often indulged in the temptation myself, but ideally, whenever we recognize it, we should focus on the content and completely disregard the creator, a.k.a. the messenger. XMcan (talk) 09:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summaries

Congrats, your use of edit summaries with your contributions is over 90 percent, and that's terrific, keep it up! Edit summaries should specify briefly what you changed; my personal view of is that the edit summary should describe why or how your change improved the article (because every change must improve the article in some way—no matter how small—otherwise you wouldn't have made it, right? Most of your edit summaries are just fine, so keep that going. On the other hand, there was one edit summary which was troubling, namely this one at Talk:CMCT where the entire edit summary was addressed to another editor, calling themin an accusatory way and in a kind of sarcastic or challenging tone. This goes against the purpose of the edit summary, as mentioned at Help:Edit summary#What to avoid in edit summaries, bullet #5:

Avoid incivility. Snide comments, personal remarks about editors, and other aggressive edit summaries are explicit edit-summary "don'ts" of the Wikipedia Civility policy.

Warning: be careful of what you write in edit summaries. Inappropriate edit summaries may be used as evidence against you in behavioral complaints. This applies particularly to uncivil and deliberately misleading edit summaries.

Please have a look at Help:Edit summary and Wikipedia:Civility, to get some background on this. You'll see that your edit definitely crossed a line, but, imho, as a new editor, you are due a certain amount of slack, but not an endless amount. I think if this is the last time this happens, you'll be all right. But please don't fall into a habit or pattern of addressing other editors in edit summaries like that, or you'll end up having your editing privileges suspended. In conclusion, keep up the good work using summaries, but keep an eye on the content, so that it complies with policies and guidelines. Please feel free to reply below if you have questions, or you can ask at the Wikipedia:Help desk. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 08:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page reverts at CMCT

I was disappointed to see your revert (diff) at Talk:Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory of the discussion I just collapsed per WP:NOTFORUM, following a previous revert of yours only an hour earlier (diff). This is not a good look, and does start to show a pattern of your using reverts as a way of insisting on your point of view, in the face of opposition from more experienced editors. That's pretty much the definition of edit-warring, and is something that can get you blocked. The collaborative nature of the encyclopedia is paramount, and it's essential that you get on board with that. There's still time to do so, but that time is drawing short. Once again, if you have any questions, please reply below, or try the WP:Help desk. Mathglot (talk) 09:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 114: / Line 114: @@
 I noticed in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1189499194&oldid=1189488433&title=Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory this] comment you said that it was nearly {{tq|a decade since us dinosaurs broached our concerns}}, which I assume means you're saying you were previously involved in the (at the time, fairly rancorous) discussions over the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory on Wikipedia; however, your edit history has only five edits prior to 2022, none of them in that topic area. -- [[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 07:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
+:Aquillion, by now you ought to know that our purpose here is to engage with the content and not with the creator. I understand the temptation, and in hindsight, I’ve often indulged in the temptation myself, but ideally, whenever we recognize it, we should focus on the content and completely disregard the creator, a.k.a. the messenger. [[User:XMcan|XMcan]] ([[User talk:XMcan#top|talk]]) 09:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 == Edit summaries ==