Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems. Before posting: Read these tips for dealing with incivility If the issue concerns a specific user, try discussing it with them on their talk page Try dispute resolution Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly. Be brief and include diffs demonstrating the problem Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead go to Requests for oversight. When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough. You may use {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~ to do so. Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)
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Clasus1453

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Clasus1453 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Fail to see how this user is a networth to this site. All their edits have been reverted (mostly by me) and for good reason; they're unsourced and revisionism. Their talk page is also full of warnings (mostly by me).

They have never written a edit summary once, let alone written in a talk page. Back in January they created the revisionistic Category:Ottoman-Azerbaijani wars, adding it to conflicts between the Ottomans and Aq Qoyunlu [1] [2] [3], referring the latter as "Azerbaijani", despite the ethnonym first emerging in 1918 and the Aq Qoyunlu article literally stating that they're Turkoman, not Azeri. After reverting them, I tried to explain this to them at their talk page [4], but it was clearly ignored, as they went on a second time to create Category:Ottoman-Azerbaijani wars after it was speedily deleted for being empty, and after being reverted for that´too, they started edit warring [5] [6] and then created a even more revisionistic category, Category:Azerbaijani-Uzbek wars, this time not only calling the Turkoman Aq Qoyunlu (and Turkoman Qara Qoyunlu) for "Azerbaijani", but now also calling the Turco-Mongol Timurid Empire for "Uzbek" [7] [8] [9].

Bonus; altering sourced information [10]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

User:Clasus1453 made their last edit at 05:22 on 26 February. If they resume editing without responding to this complaint, please let me know. A block should be considered. EdJohnston (talk) 17:02, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Will do, thanks EdJohnston! HistoryofIran (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: They have resumed editing by doing more edit warring [11] [12]. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I have partial-blocked them from article space until such time as they agree to communicate and discuss their edits. EdJohnston (talk) 20:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! HistoryofIran (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NmWTfs85lXusaybq

• NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I posted to this editor's talk page earlier today, raising concerns about their JWB-powered mass-removal of {{talk header}}, as well of the removal of the |living= parameter from WikiProject banners, on talk pages of redirects (permalink). As I was going to continue this discussion on their talk page, I noticed that - since I posted there (and they responded) - they continued making these changes via JWB (at a fast pace); which I believe was in violation of AWB rule 3 (which states that it should not be used to make controversial edits, and that [i]f challenged, the onus is on the AWB operator to demonstrate or achieve consensus for changes they wish to make on a large scale). I then re-posted to their talk page asking them to stop making these JWB edits for this reason, to which they responded OK, I will do it manually (diff).

I'd like to discuss my objections to these changes in the normal manner, but that's made difficult when they're being mass-made before such a discussion has occurred (and after NmWTfs85lXusaybq's been made aware of my objection to them). Since my request that they halted the JWB edits, they have continued to make the same edits in a WP:MEATBOT-like fashion (but without using JWB); which I'm finding hard to see as something other than a 'workaround' to my request that they stop these JWB edits, in addition to continued mass-editing without consensus.

If there are any queries, please let me know. I apologise if anything is worded poorly. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 05:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I will keep an eye on this thread. So, please leave comments here if there's any further concern from other editors. Thanks, NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 06:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Primefac: I noticed that you removed their AWB perms - thank you for doing that. However, NmWTfs85lXusaybq has continued to make these problematic mass-changes without consensus - only, doing it manually now, rather than using a semi-automated tool. Please can an admin ask them to stop? (On a side note, I'm happy to expand on my reasons for objecting to these changes; I just haven't yet, as I didn't know if it would be appropriate/helpful to do so in a discussion about editor conduct.) All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 07:27, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

 Note: The task has already been completed. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 07:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

NmWTfs85lXusaybq, this is what, the second time you've been at ANI in addition to WP:BOTN for this sort of mass editing? You say that this task is done, but what about the next time? Will you simply ignore any complaints and just power through until it's done, and then say "well, you can't complain any more, as I am done"? In other words, I am looking for a reason not to block or partially block you for continually refusing to acknowledge others. Primefac (talk) 07:57, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

None of my edits have ever been reverted regarding these threads. I haven't received any objection from editors other than a smart kitten. And I haven't got any response from them after I replied to all their concerns. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 08:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I didn't reply further on your talk, because you continued making the edits (without giving me time to respond) after I objected twice; leading to me starting this ANI thread. As I said above, I would have liked to discuss my objections to these changes in the normal manner. That I started this thread rather than responding further at your talk doesn't mean that my concerns were alleviated - the contrary is true. ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 08:08, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

You haven't reverted any edit of these tasks and you only asked me not to use those tools to make edits. I did exactly what you asked. You can't just claim to object all my edits because I just don't like it. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 08:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Mass rollback proposal

I would like to propose that the (around 1,300) mass-edits by NmWTfs85lXusaybq that (a) removed {{talk header}} from redirect talk pages, and (b) removed the |living= WikiProject banner parameter from redirect talk pages, be rolled back; due to being mass-made without obtaining consensus (and after receiving an objection), and for the following reasons:

• Regarding the edits removing |living=yes from WikiProject banners - NmWTfs85lXusaybq stated at their talk page that they believe the {{BLP}} banner obviously doesn't apply to redirects (diff). I disagree with this - redirects (as with all pages) are subject to WP:BLP; and redirects can still have BLP implications (e.g. a redirect from a living person's name could be validly added to categories within the scope of WP:BLPCAT).
  Furthermore, even if {{BLP}} didn't apply to redirects, that would (in my opinion) be an issue better brought up at Template talk:WikiProject banner shell and/or Template talk:WikiProject Biography; where the banner could be set to not display on talk pages of redirects, if that's what the consensus was for - rather than the living parameter being unilateraly removed en masse to achieve this outcome.
• Regarding the edits removing {{talkheader}} - NmWTfs85lXusaybq stated that they believe it to be helpless and...in conflict with {{tpr}} on redirect talk pages (diff). I can't see why it's helpless, and - if it's contradictory to {{tpr}} - that's more of an argument to modify {{talkheader}} so that it isn't, rather than mass-remove it from redirect talk pages.
  Furthermore, on redirect talk pages with archives, these edits also removed what may well have been the only link to said archives from the talk page itself - e.g., after Special:Diff/1210736966, there's no link from Talk:Autism to that page's archives. In response to this concern, NmWTfs85lXusaybq stated that {{Archives}} can be added to those pages - however, my point is that it shouldn't be necessary for a third editor to perform this sort of manual 'clean-up' after the mass-removal of a template that (in my opinion) doesn't even need to be removed. (I, for one, don't feel up to going through all of the edits removing this banner to check which talk pages have archives and which ones don't.)

Per WP:FAITACCOMPLI, the fact that these edits have already been made should not be a reason to justify them. All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 08:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

All my edits of these tasks are made on the talk pages of redirects only when there's a {{tpr}} banner on them.

• Regarding the removal of {{BLP}} and {{BLPO}} on the talk pages of redirects, it has been stated clearly in their template documentation that This template is intended for article talk pages.
• Regarding the removal of {{talkheader}} on the talk pages of redirects, it has also been stated clearly in its template documentation on when it should be added to the talk page. Besides, {{tpr}} is already the banner for talk pages of redirects and its introduction that Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at xxx completely contradicts the introduction on {{talkheader}} that This is the talk page for discussing improvements to xxx and Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. If there's any need to show archive links, add this feature directly to {{tpr}} instead.

NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 09:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Reserving judgement for now. Oppose mass rollback, support other sanction given WP:IDHT, wikilawyering, or WP:CIR below. @NmWTfs85lXusaybq Do you have a link to where you got consensus for these changes? The reasons you gave would be a good way of establishing consensus, but my understanding is that mass changes need approval prior to implementing them. That goes double when there has been an objection voiced. @A smart kitten While Fait Accompli does state that "it's already done" is a poor justification to keep edits, perhaps we should develop consensus for or against these edits before rolling them back. After all, if it's decided they're good, there's no point in duplicating work. However, even if they're good, I agree that the reported editor should NOT have continued in the face of objections, and if they don't acknowledge this, their access to semi-automated tools may need to be restricted. EducatedRedneck (talk) 12:09, 28 February 2024 (UTC) EducatedRedneck (talk) 11:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Although there's no consensus about how to deal with these talk pages of redirects, I made these edits based on previous discussions. The conditions of misuse of {{talkheader}} have been stated in its documentation, which is based on consensus. In addition, a TfD for merging {{Auto archiving notice}} into {{Talk header}} suggests the replacement by {{archives}} for this-is-only-for-archives functionality. As a convenient way, there's an alternative option to bring the functionality of archive box directly into the {{tpr}} banner. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 13:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

That might be true, but nothing you have linked shows a consensus for this change. After all, WP:MEATBOT is also based in consensus, and WP:ASSISTED (which may apply more cleanly) also makes it clear: get consensus for your proposed changes first. If you did, I think it'd be useful to link to that specific discussion; hand-waving at templates is not convincing. Again, your edits do seem to me to be good, so I'd like to hear that you understand why this was a bad way to go about it, so I can just say "I trust you", be reassured that this problem won't recur, and let you get back to editing. EducatedRedneck (talk) 20:19, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@EducatedRedneck: Apologies if you're already aware of this, but this is at least the second time a problem like this has occurred - see WP:BOTN § Fully automated edits without BRFA - Request for assistance for further context. Best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 20:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I was not, though I should've been; I missed Primefac's link to it above. Thank you for directing me to it! That link shows that it is even more important that NmWTfs85lXusaybq shows their understanding here, and pledges to get consensus (ideally via seeking WP:BOTAPPROVAL) before undertaking mass changes. EducatedRedneck (talk) 20:31, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@EducatedRedneck: I'm relieved that my edits seem good to you. And I clearly understand I won't use automatic tool or semi-automatic tool to do a task without consensus. But WP:MEATBOT also states it clearly that For the purpose of dispute resolution, it is irrelevant whether high-speed or large-scale edits that a) are contrary to consensus or b) cause errors an attentive human would not make are actually being performed by a bot, by a human assisted by a script, or even by a human without any programmatic assistance. As long as I'm not editing against a consensus or causing errors, I can do it manually. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 02:07, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

The very next sentence in the passage you quoted is No matter the method, the disruptive editing must stop or the user may end up blocked. I think I've stopped reserving judgement. That policy says the opposite of your conclusion that you can do it manually. EducatedRedneck (talk) 11:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@EducatedRedneck: And the very next sentence after the one you quoted is However, merely editing quickly, particularly for a short time, is not by itself disruptive. Additionally,

as you stated above, my edits do seem good to you. If that's still disruptive to you, then disruptive editing looks good to you. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 12:11, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

You're not "merely quickly editing" though, you're making bot-like rapid fire edits. Trying to wikilawyer around this is a bad look. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Support mass rollback proposal. Doing so is in line with WP:BRD. Additionally, the loss of archives on redirect talk pages is an issue. Instead of obliging someone else to go through the mass of edits to find which pages have lost archive links and clean things up, a rollback is appropriate. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 04:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support per BRD; I'd be happy to do the rollback if it reaches consensus. Queen of Hearts talk
  she/they
  stalk 22:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Behavioral Sanctions

I believe NmWTfs85lXusaybq needs to be restricted from making mass edits to prevent disruption to the encyclopedia.

• They have used semi-automated tools and operated in a bot-like manner without approval.
• When objections were raised, they refused to stop the mass editing.
• As pointed out above, this is at least the second time this has happened.
• When confronted, they first pointed to template instructions on their use, as if that overrode policies and guidelines.
• When the P&G were referenced, they then cherrypicked passages, misrepresenting them to justify their actions.
• This shows they either didn't actually read the policies, couldn't understand them, or are deliberately misinterpreting them.
• Therefore, I propose that NmWTfs85lXusaybq is prohibited from mass editing indefinitely. Until such a time that they show they understand and will abide by policies, in the judgement of any administrator, they should be prevented from further disruption.

Reviewing their talk page has also shown that they seem to have trouble collaborating with others. To quote User:Chris troutman to NmWTfs85lXusaybq, I'm becoming increasingly concerned that when a variety of Wikipedians address problems with your editing, you either ignore their issue, explain away as if it was not your fault, or change the subject. N.b.: This message was responded to by removing it with the edit summary: "Harassment or Personal attack". I'd also like to propose a 31 h block for disruptive editing, with the understanding that continuing to edit disruptively and failing to respond to other editors will lead to increasing blocks. EducatedRedneck (talk) 12:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support both as proposer. EducatedRedneck (talk) 12:15, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

 Note: Chris troutman have made personal attacks on me in Talk:Trenkwalder#advertising? and leave a comment to a thread on my user page which he has never got involved in. I have to call this WP:Harassment. And pinging an editor who is clearly against me could also be WP:Canvassing. You should have also pinged all the other participants who have got involved that thread, including @Liz and Formyparty:. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 12:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Chris Troutman made a comment about your behaviour, not a personal attack. Calling that harassment and canvassing is at least not helpful. The Banner talk 13:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I see no difference between Chris Troutman's comment in Talk:Trenkwalder#advertising? and Arminden's comment in Talk:Horon#Horon_is_a_term_with_many_meanings_in_several_cultures about the behavioural issue. And Amakuru's comment in the latter thread may be helpful: If you have specific behavioural issues with that editor that you want to discuss then you can continue to post those at the WP:AN/I thread, but they don't belong here. And WP:harassment is about Chris Troutman's comment in a thread on my talk page they didn't participate, but WP:canvassing is about EducatedRedneck's behaviour as they only pinged the one who is clearly against me in that thread. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 13:24, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

While this to me feels like a WP:BATTLEGROUND-style Tu quoque, upon reflection I can see how my actions fit the bill for canvassing. My thinking was that it's only polite to ping the person I quoted, so if I misunderstood or misrepresented them, they could set the record straight. Given the context, however, I agree that it was for all practical purposes canvassing. I apologize for that, and thank you for pinging a broader base of editors. EducatedRedneck (talk) 21:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

As for the second proposal, I have to cite WP:BLOCKNOTPUNITIVE for you. And if you haven't realized what personal attack I have experienced, Arminden's comment in Talk:Horon#Horon_is_a_term_with_many_meanings_in_several_cultures is such a case and is similar to Talk:Trenkwalder#advertising? I cited before. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 12:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

My feeling is that, even in this very thread, you remain unresponsive to other editor's concern. As such, the block would indeed be preventative, not punitive. If other editors disagree on one or both proposals, that's also okay. EducatedRedneck (talk) 20:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• As the original filer, Support editing restriction (with the caveat that - as a community-imposed restriction - the community, not a single administrator, should be the body with the power to remove it). I would also be supportive of a block for disruptive editing, but I wouldn't want to dictate the length of such a block to an admin that decides to place it. Block or no block, though, I believe that such an editing restriction is clearly necessary; given (among other things) the disruptive mass-editing without consensus, the refusal to stop following objection, and the apparent wikilawyering both during this thread and on their talk page.
  To be clear, I still support my rollback proposal above, per WP:BRD if nothing else: short of mass-rollback, I don't know how I'm supposed to undo these edits that I strongly disagree with; and I don't believe that ANI is the ideal forum to be deciding whether or not the edits were an improvement from a content perspective. However, whether or not the rollback proposal is passed, I believe the proposed restriction is also needed.
  All the best, ‍—‍a smart kitten_[meow] 04:20, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  No objection to stricter sanctions. My thinking was that it's better to have it be an agile editing restriction, so it can be removed easily if no longer needed, and can easily be strengthened if circumstances merit. Similarly, I was thinking of starting with a short block. However, if others believe the weaker sanction would waste community time, I have no objection to a stronger one. EducatedRedneck (talk) 11:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support both. On reading the evidence presented, and seeing NmWTfs85lXusaybq's ongoing WP:IDHT behavior, the mass editing restriction is warranted, and the block would be preventative. I also agree with a smark kitten that if this editing restriction is community-imposed, it falls to the community to be the body to determine its removal. P-Makoto (she/her) (talk) 04:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
•  Administrator note This user has apparently retired. Primefac (talk) 07:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
• They have also changed names and are deleting their pages. I'm not sure that complete deletion of talk pages is allowed when other editors have left any comments. This should not be allowed. They can blank it. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 07:32, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  I deleted the page earlier today and I only noticed this discussion now. I will not be available for most of the day today, but if consensus is that the deletion was not appropriate (which it might very well be, I have not even read this thread fully) every administrator is welcome to restore. I will check later in the (European) evening. Ymblanter (talk) 07:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  Oh, I see, it has already been restored. Perfectly fine with me, and my apologies, I apparently did not check the history of the page well enough.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

• I now it is moot by now, but seeing that he removed criticism with a summery of "Harassment or Personal attack" gives me serious worries. The Banner talk 10:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

• This is moot, but support restriction if they ever do unvanish. Queen of Hearts talk
  she/they
  stalk 18:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose block as moot, but Support an editing restriction against mass edits, whether automated or manual. The above comments demonstrate a complete disregard for the concerns of other editors, and no indication that they understand why people were upset about a mass-edit without consensus.

— The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support Both The editor in question has almost certainly already created a CLEANSTART account or will do so soon. I want it on the record that the community does not allow these heedless mass edits. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 Renamer note: Vanishing is not a means to evade scrutiny or sanctions. It does not offer a fresh start or guarantee anonymity. If the user returns with a new account, the “vanishing” will likely be fully reversed, linking the old and new accounts, and any outstanding sanctions or restrictions will be resumed. – DreamRimmer (talk) 04:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

• Meh. Probably our old compañero, Commander Waterford. ——Serial 11:59, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Well, CommanderInDubio (their current username) is active elsewhere, so it should be easy enough to take it to SPI, where accusations of sockpuppetry belong... –FlyingAce^✈hello 14:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  For what it's worth, I spent a little time looking into this possibility and it seems very unlikely these are the same person based purely on behavioral evidence. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 19:31, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  +1, all I could find in common was having a case of editcountitis (probably thousands of people, occasionally including me, I'll admit) and being (ex) page movers (414 people, also including me (this is a magic word; it was 401 when I posted this.)) Queen of Hearts talk
  she/they
  stalk 02:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

  ... so it follows that the accusations of sockpuppetry should be struck, right? –FlyingAce^✈hello 02:10, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Question regarding a user with prior restrictions for bludgeoning and edit warring

A user with tban and anti-bludgeoning restrictions believes that "edits in Article space have nothing to do" with their restrictions. I would appreciate clarification on whether this is accurate because they appear to use edit summaries to make statements and express opinions that cannot be challenged without risking edit wars. It's worth noting that they have not previously edited this BLP before, and as of this writing, they have yet to engage with the BLP Talk even though they been politely asked to. List of User’s edits with summaries. User’s posts in Talk (empty). XMcan (talk) 16:09, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Looking at that BLP, the clear aversion from every participant to any form of discussion is so noticeable that I hardly think Newimpartial alone can be blamed for it. That said, that comment shows that their battleground tendencies are alive and well... ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:20, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

As someone who voted in favour of NewImpartial's bludgeoning restriction (and has perhaps even been on the receving end of said bludgeon!) I can say I don't think this is a violation of the restriction. I agree with AirshipJungleman29 that all users could do with participating on the talk page more, but that's about it. — Czello ^(music) 16:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

1) well no, bludgeon refers specifically to overinvolvement in discussions and belaboring the process, you really cannot apply that to edits and edit summaries.

2) speaking of wp:bludgeon tho, one should note that XMcan has been on the same tangent for almost 2 months now at that article talk page but their position has not gained consensus.

3) XMcan's rationale for their latest edit war is lots of IPs are saying it so they must have a point.

3) also note that XMcan has been indeffed from the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory page, and the subject matter that the user is involved in at the blp is Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. wp:boomerangs may be in play. ValarianB (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

A tban from the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory broadly construed maybe in order. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not okay with how much XMcan has been edit warring at James A. Lindsay, which I agree is an article that is related to Cultural Marxism. Edit warring was part of the disruption that led to their page block from the Cultural Marxism article and its talk page. The opening statement here suggests that some edit summaries "cannot be challenged without risking edit wars", which doesn't make sense, and leads me to think the edit warring will continue. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I meant it per WP:REVTALK: Avoid using edit summaries to carry on debates or negotiation over the content. This creates an atmosphere where the only way to carry on discussion is to revert other editors! Sorry, if I didn't make it clear. XMcan (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The OP seems confused about WP:BLUDGEON, as they demonstrated in this accusation shortly after their block from Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. Valereee tried to clarify XMcan's understanding of my restriction here, but that doesn't seem to have changed their impression that I must have some done something wrong when our perceptions of a topic differ.

In the present instance, what I see on Talk:James A. Lindsay is essentially a WP:1AM situation where they are the "1"; I generally agree with the other editors in that discussion (which I have been reading in installments long before editing the page), but I haven't felt compelled to add anything to that conversation - quite the opposite of BLUDGEON, I should think.

I would also point out that XMCan's convictions animating their participation on the Lindsay page appear to be precisely the same convictions that animated their disruption of the Cultural Marxism page. Newimpartial (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

but I haven't felt compelled to add anything to that conversation - quite the opposite of BLUDGEON, I should think. Agree completely. The talk page seems to indicate 1am as you have said, so perhaps some level of WP:BOOMERANG is in order. I'd endorse ActivelyDisinterested's tban suggestion. — Czello ^(music) 20:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

• I think this attempt by XMcan to make this an issue in an unrelated thread is indicative of a WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude, and I would support a topic ban on them as proposed above. Hatman31 (talk) 05:19, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  Since we are cherry picking, we should pick this cherry, too. 🍒 XMcan (talk) 10:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  WP:BATTLEGROUND might also be indicated by XMcan's contributions to an XfD discussion - contributions that include obvious ASPERSIONS about my motives in this vote. Once again, the avowed topic of their behaviour is related (by editing history of the author of the page up for deletion) to the Cultural Marxism topic (and, in this case, to other conspiracy theories as well). Newimpartial (talk) 12:37, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  Editors who read my brief comment to NI in context will notice that the user who initiated that exchange appears determined to have the last word. Such tendency could explain a preference for making dismissive comments in edit summaries rather than participating in Talk. XMcan (talk) 15:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  Given that you did cast aspersions in your reply, I don't think this is last-wordism from NewImpartial. If I received such a comment, I'd probably want to reply and say what they said.

  I can't really see any wrongdoing from NI in any of the comments you've linked; I'd suggest it's time to WP:DROPTHESTICK because this could boomerang. — Czello ^(music) 16:04, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  NI and the author, whose two articles are up for deletion, have a lengthy and contentious history that involves at least a couple of AE cases that I know of. I'm unclear on why NI is introducing the XfDs or involving that author in this discussion. The purpose of this ANI is to seek clarification on whether the existing anti-bludgeoning limits (two comments per discussion per day) extend to edit summaries, not to revisit past disputes involving other parties. I encourage NI to moderate their behavior, but I'm not advocating for their ban or punishment. If it's determined that they've inadvertently violated limits, a simple warning or clarification would be satisfactory from my perspective. If it’s determined that they are an upstanding wiki-citizen and no longer need anti-bludgeoning restrictions, that’s fine with me too. XMcan (talk) 16:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  To be clear, XMcan, I mentioned your XfD interventions (not anyone else's) as "similar fact" evidence (of ASPERSION-casting and IDHT) that might help editors to understand your filing here.

  Namely, you exhibit a pattern of WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour, centered in the topic of Cultural Marxism, and have repeatedly made unsubstantiated assertions about my editing - most recently, that I have a lengthy and contentious history with Sennalen and that I appear determined to have the last word in my MfD participation. Both statements are half-truths at best, and your constant misinterpretations about what my BLUDGEON ban is supposed to address strike me as BATTLEGROUND tactics as well.

  Incidentally, for the record, I am not asking for my BLUDGEON restriction to be lifted at this time; it would be welcome for it to be modified so that my own editor Talk page is excluded, but I understand if the community would like to ask and answer that question through a more formal process than this one. Newimpartial (talk) 20:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

As others have said, editing articles isn't really bludgeoning. Of course edit summaries aren't the place for details discussions over changes, and if an editor with a bludgeoning restriction moves on from bludgeoning to edit warring to force their version in, without bothering to discuss their changes, they might quickly find themselves blocked for reasons that have nothing to do with bludgeoning but I see no evidence this has happened here. Nil Einne (talk) 10:13, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Topic ban proposal

(univnolved non-admin comment) Given the background and previous reports, I propose that User:XMcan be topic banned from Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, this would prevent him from bringing it up tangentially in discussions and other pages regarding the issue such as James A. Lindsay etc. Lavalizard101 (talk) 11:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support, though I would word it as "broadly construed", as otherwise I believe XMcan will move to other related articles and continue this disruptive, battleground behavior.

— The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support with broadly construed per continued edit warring since the pblocks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 20:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support and yes, also add the broadly construed verbiage. They appear to be hear to debate this specific topic, nipping that seems the only recourse. Zaathras (talk) 21:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support with broadly construed. I think that this is the very minimum that can be applied at this point given the extent and duration of the trouble caused and there being no obvious prospect of stopping it in any other way. (Disclosure: I was the filer of one of the previous reports that Lavalizard101 mentions.) --DanielRigal (talk) 22:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support with broadly construed. If it’s not Cultural Marxism or James Lindsay it will be something else unless a tban is in place. Pokerplayer513 (talk) 09:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Support, broadly construed. The continued disruptive behaviour on the same subject but in a different article leaves no room for anything less. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 00:12, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Lawyer.F

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Lawyer.F (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User is not WP:NOTHERE and clearly lacks WP:CIR. After being unblocked for promotional username, they have only caused trouble.

Despite being told multiple that they have to cite a WP:RS for their additions/changes [13] [14] [15] [16], they still don't get it. In fact, they kept doubling down on the WP:OR/WP:SYNTH rants in their talk page. To make it even worse, they rejected countless WP:RS because it did not fit their views, such as their last comment [17], where they even randomly made assumptions about my place of education...? "I guess, you have been educated in Iran and have never been educated somewhere else". Now, they are adding their newly created and unsourced category "Qizilbash confederacy states" (whatever that means?) to several articles, even edit warring [18] [19].

To get a better picture of this and how bad it is, I would advise you to read this whole talk page section [20]. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Clearly does not meet CIR requirements. Should be blocked to prevent further disruption to the project. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:59, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

  Also, the category he adds to things ([21]) seems to only be added to by him with 2 added pages. Is there a CSD for categories? I like Astatine (Talk to me) 04:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked Lawyer.F for disruptive editing, with a notation that competence is required. Cullen328 (talk) 07:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Cullen328! HistoryofIran (talk) 13:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Genre warring on Led Zeppelin III

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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On February 4, a South Africa-based IP added an unsourced genre to the article for Led Zeppelin III ([22]). After being reverted multiple times, the IP editor added the unsourced genre back ([23][24][25]). On 25 February, I applied for page protection at WP:RPPI ([26]), and Favonian instituted a range block on the IP to prevent further edits to Led Zeppelin III ([27]). A few hours before the block, the IP editor created an account, HighPriestOfSaturn, which the editor has used to continue genre warring ([28][29][30][31][32][33][34]), despite being reverted by myself and Carlinal, and having been warned on his or her talk page by Favonian and FlightTime. Tkbrett (✉) 11:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I improved Led Zeppelin III to GA status, so I'm WP:INVOLVED and won't take any admin action myself. However, this looks like a silly spat over genres in infoboxes. I've dropped a WP:ARBINFOBOX2 contentious topic debate on their talk page and explained why they're wasting their time. So if the disruption continues with snarky edit summaries or comments on the talk page, any uninvolved admin should be free to issue an Arbcom-enforced block. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:29, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Why does the user Tkbrett continue referring to my genres as unsourced? How many times have I mentioned that the Rolling Stone article is my source and how many times have I explained my position? The user Tkbrett continues to call me a genre warrior, and yet he is behaving in precisely the described manner of a genre warrior: "prefer monolithic labels rather than subtlety, e.g. by reducing one band's output to a single genre, e.g. "Metallica = heavy metal". "

My genre change is not only sourced but is also explained. I have explained that "folk rock" is a large genre, and there is a difference between the straighter varieties of folk such as Bob Dylan, the Mamas and the Papas, Peter Paul and Mary and the spacey, trippy variety of folk such as early David Bowie, Tim Buckley and post-Floyd Syd Barrett.

The Rolling Stone article describes this album as "trippy" folk. Am I lying or not? If not, then why are my changes being reverted without due explanation? Or do we have a misunderstanding over what "trippy" means? HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 14:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

While the description of the album as "trippy folk" may pass WP:EXPLICITGENRES (I'm not going to be adding it in, though), I do have to comment on this: "I have explained that 'folk rock' is a large genre, and there is a difference between the straighter varieties of folk such as Bob Dylan, the Mamas and the Papas, Peter Paul and Mary and the spacey, trippy variety of folk such as early David Bowie, Tim Buckley and post-Floyd Syd Barrett." To be clear, this seems like original research to me, and does not have any bearing on consensus regarding genres on any article. I don't want to discount all of your points, but the genres in the infobox must be supported by reliable sources -- if all you have is your own analysis, they will be removed. I just wanted to chime in here to explain this. Thank you. JeffSpaceman (talk) 14:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. There is no page for trippy folk, and to say "trippy" means "psychedelic" is original research. The source never uses the word "psychedelic", but it does use "folk rock". As a side note, the editor has [35][36] continued to genre war after this discussion opened. Tkbrett (✉) 15:19, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I have blocked HighPriestOfSaturn for 24 hours for edit warring. PhilKnight (talk) 15:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I can't believe I'm being called an edit warrior when users like @Carlinal are able to revert my changes with no explanation given, then be given a seat on this mock council. And now @Lavalizard101 wants me to be blocked for battleground mentality. I have explained my position, time and time again, using only the facts of the situation. And yet I have had my changes deleted for no reason, I have been banned, I have been told to "let it go", but not a single person has been able to refute my changes in a logical way. So what further avenues are made available to me except to go through all this stuff with all you people? I stand for my changes and I am able to back them up. Unless one of you can provide sound and reasonable counterarguments, I see no reason why my changes should be deleted/reverted. HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 16:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

𝙄 𝙖𝙢 𝙜𝙤𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙩𝙤 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙡𝙤𝙤𝙠 𝙖𝙨 𝙙𝙞𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙖𝙨 𝙥𝙤𝙨𝙨𝙞𝙗𝙡𝙚, 𝙨𝙤 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙞𝙩 𝙖𝙩𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙘𝙩𝙨 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙖𝙩𝙩𝙚𝙣𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙞𝙩 𝙙𝙚𝙨𝙚𝙧𝙫𝙚𝙨 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙞𝙨 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙡𝙮 𝙙𝙧𝙤𝙬𝙣𝙚𝙙 𝙤𝙪𝙩. 𝙏𝙝𝙞𝙨 𝙞𝙨 𝙗𝙚𝙘𝙖𝙪𝙨𝙚 𝙄 𝙝𝙖𝙫𝙚 𝙢𝙤𝙧𝙚 𝙡𝙤𝙜𝙞𝙘 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙤𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙣 𝙖𝙣𝙮 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙝𝙤𝙨𝙚 𝙨𝙤-𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙙𝙢𝙞𝙣𝙞𝙨𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙤𝙧𝙨, 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙮𝙚𝙩 𝙄 𝙖𝙢 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙗𝙚𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙝𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙙, 𝙤𝙣𝙡𝙮 𝙨𝙞𝙡𝙚𝙣𝙘𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙡𝙞𝙚𝙙 𝙩𝙤, 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙡𝙞𝙚𝙙 𝙖𝙗𝙤𝙪𝙩.

​There is no page for trippy folk, because psychedelic folk in and of itself is, and I quote,: "a loosely defined form of psychedelia" that "retains the largely acoustic instrumentation of folk, but adds musical elements common to psychedelic music" .

This same genre is also known as "acid folk" and "freak folk", amongst other names.

The point of the matter here is that it is NOT straight folk rock, it is literally "trippy" folk, aka spacey folk, aka trip folk, aka freak folk, aka psychedelic folk.

You come with your lies, again and again and again and again, and you hide behind your mob (which I suspect to have some sockpuppetry going on) but yet you will continue to fall flat because you are a LIAR, Tkbrett.

The definition of "trippy", according to Merriam-Webster, is: "of, relating to, or suggestive of a trip on psychedelic drugs or the culture associated with such drugs."

𝐘𝐨𝐮 𝐋𝐈𝐄𝐃 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐚𝐢𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐥 𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐜𝐡. 𝐀𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰 𝐚𝐝𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐬 𝐰𝐚𝐭𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐥𝐞𝐭 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐬𝐥𝐢𝐝𝐞, 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐮𝐧𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐫𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐣𝐮𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐞, 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐬𝐭 𝐛𝐥𝐨𝐜𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐦𝐞. 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐨𝐧𝐜𝐞. 𝐍𝐨𝐧𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐦𝐲 𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐮𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐬 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐛𝐞𝐞𝐧 𝐫𝐞𝐟𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐝, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐲𝐞𝐭 𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐥𝐲 𝐫𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐛𝐥𝐨𝐜𝐤𝐞𝐝, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐛𝐞𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐠𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐧 𝐚 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐫 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐥. 𝐈 𝐚𝐦 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐯𝐢𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐛𝐨𝐚𝐫𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝐚𝐝𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐬𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐬.

So by very definition, in clear, conspicuous and concise wording, YOUR article says that Led Zeppelin III is a trippy folk album. This means that it is an album that, according to the cited reviewer, is folky yes, but has elements that are common to psychedelic (trippy) music.

In other words, back to the original point, it is a psychedelic-sounding album of the folk music category. Or, in shorter words, psychedelic folk. HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 15:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, this constitutes your own original reasearch, which we cannot use to justify edits. In addition, the above screed is full of personal attacks, which will likely result in your editing privileges being revoked. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, if you don't want to have a discussion based on policy, I've listened to both sides of LZ3 about a thousand times, and it's extremely obviously distinct from anything else that people call psychedelic folk. Every single song is either classic rock, blues, acoustic folk or Hats Off To Roy Harper. Sure, it has -- as you say -- "elements that are common to" the psychedelic folk genre. The very simple thing you seem to be deliberately refusing to understand throughout this conversation (instead saying that everyone else is lying) is that a thing having elements in common with a second thing does not make it be that second thing. I am a man who owns more than one guitar; Jimmy Page is a man who owns more than one guitar. Do you see how these two facts fail to prove that I am Jimmy Page? jp×g🗯️ 06:01, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I, on the other hand JPxG, only own one guitar, a slender little C. F. Martin & Company Backpacker, the guitar that has been to the summit of Mount Everest and to outer space. Cullen328 (talk) 08:28, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Tkbrett: This report should have been made at either WP:ANEW or protection filed at WP:RFPP. While it involves a degree of behavioral infraction, it does not constitute urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems (a minor content dispute over the difficult third acoustic album where they went to Wales and smoked too much weed is none of those things). It is purely a content dispute. ——Serial 15:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks, Serial Number 54129. I am sorry, I do not know much about how and where to report stuff like this. After the page protection request at WP:RPPI did not stop the issue, I reported it here because that is the only guidance given at WP:GWAR § In case of dispute. Tkbrett (✉) 15:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  No problem at all Tkbrett, the right result was achieved... and was an opportunity to describe the creation of LZ3 from a different perspective  :) ——Serial 15:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

  Two good results, I guess you could say. 😉 JeffSpaceman (talk) 16:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Either I'm late to the party or this got resolved fairly quickly (got unrelated bad sleep regardless). I'm glad this got taken care of, and since I'm part of the warring as well I may as well add a few more noteworthy details and thoughts.

The February edits were not the first from HPOS, with them saying they did similar edits last July (as evidenced) and also was careless about abiding to reliable sources (also here, ignoring WP:MEDIUM). I even reported one of their edits for vandalism thanks to their continuous disruptiveness and stubbornness. I agree with JeffSpaceman's reply completely, in that "trippy folk rock" doesn't mean "psychedelic folk" as it's an adjective to a phrase and not an established label itself, and HPOS's insistent beliefs is original research.

While the 24 hour blocking is fair, I do not believe this will affect their arguments or prevent similar edits in the long run, so I'm still watching out for Led Zeppelin III as a result. Oh well, it's one of my favorite albums to read about and listen to, anyway. Also, you guys keep a GWAR recency report here?! God damn! I'm sorry for any further nuisance this caused. As per Tkbrett's explanations for reporting here, I think the GWAR essay needs an update so things can go in a better favor next time. All in all, thanks again for killing some of the heat. Sorry for killing a kitten. So this is what it's like to love Led Zeppelin, huh... Carlinal (talk) 22:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, I have watchlisted the article in case the editor resumes the genre warring once the block is over. Something tells me this won't just go away... JeffSpaceman (talk) 23:29, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, the offending editor indicated his or her plans to get right back to reverting once the block expires. Tkbrett (✉) 14:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

If you ask Google what the definition of "trippy folk rock" is, the very first result is Psychedelic folk, the second result is Psychedelic rock and coming in third is Britannica with psychedelic rock. Isn't that a trip it's equated with psychedelic. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:54, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Given his response above. I suggest User:HighPriestOfSaturn, be blocked indefinitely for battleground mentality. Lavalizard101 (talk) 16:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, I really wanted to assume good faith, but it sadly seems that the user is not here to build an encyclopedia. An indef is probably the only preventative measure here, unfortunately. I would not be opposed to an unblock if the user agrees to avoid such original research in the future, but as of now, I don't see that happening. Disappointing, but I kind of imagined that this edit warring would resume, given the battleground editing the user has been engaging in. JeffSpaceman (talk) 16:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

What original research? Everything I say is cited. HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 16:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

As noted above, trippy folk does not automatically equal psychedelic folk. See WP:EXPLICITGENRES for more information, with particular emphasis on this section: "When classifying music, sources must explicitly attribute the genre to the work or artist as a whole." Partial attributions and synthesized claims are unacceptable and often skirt the edge of the no original research policy. Please stop edit warring, and discuss your changes on the talk page. Similarly, your battleground attitude is unacceptable and goes against WP:NOT. I think a lot of people (myself included) really want you to succeed as editor, but this kind of disruptive editing will result in a block or sanction of some sort. Please stop and get consensus for your changes. JeffSpaceman (talk) 16:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but WP:EXPLICITGENRES does not work in a genre that is defined as " "a loosely defined form of psychedelia".

Psychedelic folk is a loosely defined offshoot of folk that goes by multiple names, the two additional (but not only) names listed on the Wiki article are also "acid folk" and "freak folk".

Trippy is interchangeable with psychedelic, as by definition it describes states induced by or reminiscent of those experienced under psychedelic drugs. This is not original research, or do you want me to link Merriam-Webster?

I am not edit warring when my changes are sourced. How about those who delete my changes for no reason come and explain here on the talk page? I've reasons, they've not. HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 16:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

This is not original research Yes it is, as you have been told multiple times, if a source does not explicitly describe an album as "psychedlic folk" we cannot call it that. Lavalizard101 (talk) 16:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

That's because "psychedelic folk" is a loosely defined genre as per its article. Psychedelic folk goes by many names, but is folk music with psychedelic elements. Heady, trippy, elements. Like how this article describes it. HighPriestOfSaturn (talk) 16:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

HighPriestOfSaturn has gone back to edit-warring on Led Zeppelin III. Can an uninvolved admin (as mentioned above, I'm not) partially block them indefinitely from this article, please? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

•  Done by Widr. Should be indeffed full block. They're only here for one thing, and when that one thing is disruptive, we'll get no profit out of them. It's a good example of how sometimes P-blocks just put off the inevitable. ——Serial 16:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree on a full indef. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

User is now making personal attacks on their talk page, as seen here. Should absolutely be full indef, based on this. WP:NOTHERE. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:43, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Crap, I was gonna try and save them by saying that genre-related edits are not taken lightly, and the only way "psychedelic folk" can even begin to be accepted there is if they can provide a (reliable) source proving that "trippy rock" is a common synonym for psychedelic rock and whatnot. Alas, they chose to become the victim of another day.

Since HPOS previously fought under various IPs and only recently had a username, I fear sockpuppetry could arise. Or maybe I'm getting paranoid. Jesus. Carlinal (talk) 17:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

That's possible, but I found no evidence so far--and such genre warriors and Crusaders for Truth are often easily recognized anyway. Drmies (talk) 18:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

HighPriestOfSaturn, time for indef?

"And guess what? I will come back to this article and change it to the genre it deserves. Month after month, year after year, decade after decade, until the day I die." .

It goes downhill from there.. Zaathras (talk) 01:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

User should absolutely be indeffed. Based on this behavior, a partial block is insufficient, and a full block necessary to prevent disruption. JeffSpaceman (talk) 01:41, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked HighPriestOfSaturn and the person calling themselves that as not here to improve the encyclopedia but rather to vindictively disrupt it. If the person behind the username is reading this, please be aware that Wikipedia administrators will use all of the many tools at our disposal to prevent genre warring at Led Zeppelin III, as well as any other article that you might fixate on. Please find another hobby. Cullen328 (talk) 08:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Nice but of work, Cullen328, excellent advice elegantly phrased :) ——Serial 12:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

COI and CIR

• Ahmed brens (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Hakawi News (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Abdel Nasser Abdel Fattah Mohamed Hassan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Misleading articles in bad English about a non-notable Wordpress website and its owner, by editor recently banned from Commons for participation in a cross-project promotion about these two entities. HouseOfChange (talk) 04:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Good morning, my article is about the spread of knowledge, sports, news sites, website owners, company owners, and businessmen. Goodbye, have a nice day.

(Ahmed brens (talk) 04:25, 2 March 2024 (UTC))

The abuse report at Commons is at this link (dated 29 February 2024). The editors who worked on this problem at Commons are User:HouseOfChange and User:TheAafi. EdJohnston (talk) 05:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Obvious  Looks like a duck to me, given how their contributions transect with each other. Their logs at Commons are pretty much evident of this. There's one more player in this: Maryam AlAkini, whose spam uploads were mostly nuked by Pi.1415926535. Ahmed brens asked for an unblock twice on Commons which was declined. ─ Aafī (talk) 07:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

• Hoaxes going on. I took care of the articles, will let someone else connect dots and issue blocks if needed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 06:36, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  The user CIR issue is also important, as AB continues to create articles with no indication of notability. The Sky News articles may be part of a continued promotional work with कटासमुला (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (Katasmula, now blocked at Commons for a leading role in the Abdel Nasser hoax). Katasmula also has an interesting Wikimedia page, apparently copying affiliations and conference images from another user. The Meta userpage history shows Katasmula considered also describing himself as a Wikipedia employee but decided against it. HouseOfChange (talk) 20:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• I have to go out for the day so can't examine more closely, but would ask another admin to finish cleaning up this mess. My guess is that a block is needed and a lot of articles need CSD. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

User contributions for 93.218.55.200 take 2

Previous report ...back as 79.245.112.78. ....same edit summary style. @HJ Mitchell: previous iadminMoxy- 08:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Will need help reverting this.Moxy- 08:45, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like only the first edit has an edit conflict, clicking undo on <these> seems perfectly fine.

I'm a bit wary of doing it though, lest I accidentally make it more complicated. – 2804:F14:80E5:6B01:8497:A051:760:1011 (talk) 09:36, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Well never mind then, further edits changed the title of one of the sections and removed some brackets, so that revert is not possible anymore. – 2804:F1...0E:888D (talk) 21:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Systematic distortion of historical articles

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Dear All,

Please check urgently this post on reddit detailing how a few Hungarian editors are systematically rewriting articles on Romanian history. It needs intervention and professional editors to correct the changes. Adam Harangozó (talk) 07:28, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@Adam Harangozó: There are big mechanical problems with an off-wiki complaint, which I am choosing to address without looking at the actual accusation:

- How are we supposed to communicate back?

- How do the accused defend themselves from someone who isn't even around to participate in any discussion?

- Who is the accuser?

The reddit poster appears to be currently accusing 2 users of something(doesn't matter to the point I'm making):

- Do you now need to notify those 2 users per the rules of ANI, since that off-wiki discussion involves them?

- The argument is theirs, and you're linking it, are their arguments your arguments now?

The post talks about "network of Hungarian nationalist users" and ends with the poster claiming that "There are many accounts, and I have been doing this for many years."(*edit: talking about finding these accounts) - well, then has the poster of that thread reported them before? The archived ANI thread they linked (which is from 2021), seems to have ended with no action, the person who made it ultimately retracted it....

Honestly I would advise you against making this post into a thing, because you will have to deal with defending someone else's arguments while also somehow making the accusation with your own independent judgement, while pointing out how exactly they are violating wikipedia's policies (while avoiding WP:MEAT, both from yourself or from others coming from that thread).

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has these concerns looking at this. – 2804:F14:80E5:6B01:2D28:AD06:B149:7F62 (talk) 08:58, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't think I'm ought to be discouraged from letting administrators know about a potentially serious issue concerning the reliability of Wikipedia. I also don't think that the potential difficulty of contacting the original poster is a reason for not checking this out. This debate would need editors who are experts on history and can review the edits without national(ist) bias. Adam Harangozó (talk) 14:04, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Dude, you linked to a Reddit post that in turn links back to a historical ANI post—one that wasn't the least bit convincing to me when I read it for the first time. The administrators have been notified, they can't help but be reminded every time they have to lock an article being warred over. Remsense诉 14:14, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

The ANI post might be historical but the examples in the Reddit post are from 2023-24. My argument is still for the need for expert review of the concerned topics. Adam Harangozó (talk) 14:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

But getting expert attention is more difficult if you remove my notification about this discussion from the WikiProject History talk page. Adam Harangozó (talk) 14:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

It seemed like forum shopping because you noted this post, but did not direct discussion there.

Casting aspersions of a conspiracy without evidence is not acceptable on Wikipedia. There are, as always, biases with individual editors and in articles which may broadly reflect systemic biases. Your conclusion of a concerted review effort targeting specific editors is unacceptable, given your premise has no basis in any evidence. Remsense诉 14:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, one of the mechanical issues IP 2804⸻7F62 mentioned involves the fact that your post has the effect of laundering the absurd claims made in the reddit post. You've simply said a few Hungarian editors are systematically rewriting articles on Romanian history, but the post you have linked uncritically makes numerous unevidenced claims and personal attacks that are totally unacceptable here. This is a big reason why we don't do things off-site. Remsense诉 15:05, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: I have notified editers mentioned in the Reddit post of this thread, if they wish to comment. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 14:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Nonsense. Borsoka (talk) 15:07, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: The original reddit posts cites a historical ANI but otherwise brings many recent examples from 2023-24. My argument is for the need of expert review, to find out if there is indeed a systematic effort to distort history or if this was a false accusation.Adam Harangozó (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

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Account deletion

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Could you all delete my account Wikirizzler (talk) 17:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Accounts cannot be deleted.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Why? Wikirizzler (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Attribution of content. See WP:UNC. Schazjmd (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wikirizzler: The closest process to account deletion is courtesy vanishing, which will rename your account to something like "Renamed user [random characters]" and delete your user page and subpages. You can then clear your preferences Preferences → User profile → Restore all default preferences (in all sections) and remove your email address Preferences → User profile → Change or remove email address. ~~2NumForIce (^speak|_edits) 18:12, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Yall gotta approve my courtesy vanish Wikirizzler (talk) 18:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikirizzler, there are people here who can help you achieve what you want, but remember that they are all volunteers, who may not take kindly to being ordered about. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:20, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

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Burma moves

MM abc.xyz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Making a mess doing undiscussed moves and renames against consensus, such that Burmese language is currently sitting at Template:Myanmar language because they couldn't delete the redirect. Help! Remsense诉 17:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we can safely assume this is a new account for MmRebot (talk · contribs). However, that account was soft-blocked, so it's not block evasion. I moved the page back to article space under its previous title since there's been an objection here. A requested move seems like the most useful next step if MM abc.xyz still wants to move the page. It looks like the process has been explained on User talk:MM abc.xyz. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Remsense诉 18:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

"Ghost train" IP

A variety of IP addresses, mostly found within Special:Contributions/2001:BB6:9800:D00:9143:7563:8EF8:15F/64 and most recently (today) User:2001:BB6:9800:D00:8C64:4076:F7CA:F2D8, has been adding nonsensical content about "ghost trains" to various articles, which has had to be reverted for being irrelevant, terribly written, and unsourced every time. I invite you to read Draft:Police train to see their editing capabilities. They've been at it consistently since early February, along with identical edits in January and a few in October 2023. They've accumulated a heap of warnings across the various exact IPs, all of which have been ignored. This editor clearly cannot be reasoned with, and as I cannot see any collateral on this /64, which appears relatively stable, could we block it for at least a month to stop the disruptive edits? I'm coming here rather than AIV as this is persistent behavior across a number of IPs within the /64. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Done, though I chose a slightly longer and more arbitrary block length because I could. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Block evasion using IP

Taeisawesome21 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
2601:14C:8001:ABD0:6063:466F:2423:A6B6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Taeisawesome21 was indefed on Feb 27. The IP began making edits on March 1 to the same pages that Taeisawesome21 favored, and pushing the same previously reverted edits. ButlerBlog (talk) 23:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

User vandalising other's pages with porn-related userboxes.

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Squazyzilla added these userboxes to my page, then the same to another user's talk page. Not sure if compromised account or just gone WP:NOTHERE, but not great either way. — ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 23:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Indef'ed by User:Aoidh. I agree it seems out of character from their edit-history, but whatever...blocks are preventative, and all that. DMacks (talk) 00:12, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Given the concern above I ran a check on the account, and there's no indication from the result that the account is compromised. - Aoidh (talk) 00:21, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, peculiar. Cheers for handling it. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 00:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I also had a look. This is probably a sock of Drhunterhamilton21, who seems to have a predilection for US politics, weed, and userpage vandalism. Spicy (talk) 00:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

LTA MakaveliReed 2

• Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/MakaveliReed
• Special:Contributions/2601:240:CD00:0:0:0:0:0/46

Yesterday, I noticed an IP editor who was mass replacing non-abbreviated dates (preferred per MOS:DATERANGE and used in dozens FAs I checked) to abbreviated ones in the infoboxes (and in some cases adding unsourced dates). Upon closer inspection, the IP turned out to be an LTA. Already reported here last month by @Binksternet (thank you!), the IP returned right after the week long block and went on an editing spree. AstonishingTunesAdmirer 連絡 00:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that is certainly MakaveliReed getting back into the usual disruption. Binksternet (talk) 02:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I’ve renewed the /46 rangeblock, this time for two weeks, doubling the previous block. I noticed some lengthy /44 blocks in the history, which expired in December, but that was for a different matter. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 06:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

User:O recomeço and WP:CIR 2: Electric Boogaloo

Follow-up from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1143#User:O recomeço and WP:CIR, which was closed with (unfortunately) no action taken.

O recomeço continues to make edits with grammatical errors, such as improper capitalization and spelling mistakes, and has shown no improvement, if any, in their mastery of the English language since the original discussion ended:

• [37]
• [38]
• [39]
• [40] - was highlighted on user's talk page by Chris troutman as an example of "sloppy work"
• [41]
• [42]

It very much seems like the user in question blatantly ignored Darth Mike's suggestion to only edit versions of Wikipedia where they have a full grasp of the language. I say it's time to end this. The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 01:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• CIR block We have many editors fixing typos and grammar errors but if the amount we see comes from one editor and the matter comes to ANI, then its time to cut bait. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose block If they are willing to edit topics about Brazil. Tres Fronteras has been languishing for example. Mathglot and I frequently need help from a Portuguese speaker, which the name indicates they may well be. Maybe they are just not in a welcoming topic area? 2023 Brazilian Congress attack urgently needs help.

  In any event I ask that we not move too fast on a CIR while we discuss a collaboration if he/she is willing such as has been taking place at Regency of Algiers. Thanks. Elinruby (talk) 01:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose For starters, blocking on the basis of an essay about a guideline seems a stretch. Where are the diffs showing a persistent pattern of vandalism, of adding phony information with real or phony references, endless edit-warring at contentious topics, brow-beating other editors, deleting sourced content, or continually adding their own opinion to articles despite warnings to stop? Let's look at your diffs:

1. three capitalization errors, and one relative pronoun error; totally comprehensible.

2. one wrong verb form, one typo; totally comprehensible. (I was going to label Equatoguinean here as some kind of weird demonym error, but turns out they are right, and I was wrong (or ignorant).

3. one typo, one particle error, one preposition, one cap error; totally comprehensible.

4. three typos, one def. article problem; totally comprehensible.

5. two typos; totally comprehensible.

6. five typos in this paragraph; one cap error; totally comprehensible.

So you want to block them for capitalization and typos? Really? This editor is doing their best to improve the English Wikipedia in fully comprehensible, if faulty English. So what? Just send them a thank you note, and fix the problems. Tell them that months and demonyms are capitalized in English, like September and Cuban, even though they aren't in most Romance language—that should fix about half the issues. The typos and most grammar issues can be fixed by a grammar checker, or just suggest they use ChatGPT to fix all the problems at once. There are so many editors seeking to damage the encyclopedia in so many ways that are clearly contrary to policy, I find it an utter waste of time to discuss good editors improving the encyclopedia whose English is not up to native level, when the problem is so easily fixed by others with native competence in English or by tools. I hope they ignore suggestions to edit only in their native language, and stay here and continue to improve the encyclopedia. Não desanime; você é muito bem-vindo aqui. Isso vai passar. (canvassed); (Non-administrator comment) Mathglot (talk) 02:55, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Amplify Ooh if they edit West Africa even more so do we need them. I am willing to help with English cleanup if that's a problem. Elinruby (talk) 03:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

CIR in a nutshell: "Sometimes editors have good intentions, but are not competent enough to edit in a net positive manner. They create work that others have to clean up." The editor in question has created work that other editors have had to clean up, myself included. The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 06:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Mmmm sometimes editors have good intentions but fail to leave an edit summary or a section header, and other editors have to redo their ANI notifications for them. To be completely fair to you (which I do not think you are being this user, really) I also expected the ANI notification template to create a sectipn header the way that the 3RR template does. But still. I went back and fixed mine. Elinruby (talk) 06:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Block until they respond. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone ignores 5 warnings and one ANI notice and pretends nothing has happened. If they showed up here or on their talk page to acknowledge the problem and promise to improve, I’m sure everyone is happy to welcome their contribution. Until then it’s just creating unnecessary works for other editors. NM 04:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I am not seeing any notification of this ANI thread. Or any formal warnings for that matter. I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to Intuit the existence of this thread. Elinruby (talk) 04:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Elinruby: You replied^(diff) to the notice? Or do you mean something else? – 2804:F14:80E5:6B01:B594:C013:3E0E:888D (talk) 04:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Nope, was expecting a section header or an edit summary mentioning ANI is all. Since I was fooled I will do ahead and fix that. But if they were looking at the edit summary they could easily have missed it as well. Elinruby (talk) 05:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

PS @Northern Moonlight: in your comment above you should

• works->work,
• contribution->contributions,
• it's->they are

if you want go discuss the dust in someone's else's eye. I realized as I was typing this that I didn't check the talk page history. Doing that now (later) nope not even... Elinruby (talk) 10:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I am not seeing any notification of this ANI thread

Hope this helps. Northern Moonlight 17:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

yes yes, that's the notification that was buried in a thread with no edit summary. Discussed above. I missed it and I was looking for it. I have redone the notification in a more visible manner. They should see that one when they log on. Elinruby (talk) 20:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Northern Moonlight: You want to "Block until they respond", and that would be based on what part of WP:Blocking policy? As far as responsiveness: they don't edit every day—this thread started 01:26, 4 March and their last edit was three days prior. Also: you are aware, are you not, that once you join the fray here about another editor, your own behavior is subject to scrutiny, right? I wonder if the fact that the sole userbox on your user page states "I do not grant permission for the Wikimedia Foundation to relicense any of my contributions" makes you liable for a block for violating Wikipedia's Terms of Use. Mathglot (talk) 07:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Northern Moonlight: Your signature (above) does not meet the requirements of WP:CUSTOMSIG/P, in particular A customised signature should make it easy to identify your username. Please fix it. Bazza 7 (talk) 08:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bring it to my attention. Done. Northern Moonlight 17:34, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

(squint) your signature is still longer than most of your comments. I don't usually concern myself with such things, but it is making it hard to navigate this highly threaded discussion. Elinruby (talk) 20:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot "Block until they respond" is described at WP:LISTENTOUS. Nobody (talk) 09:19, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I was referring to their original ANI thread which I mistakenly thought they didn’t respond. My apologies.

The userbox is a verbatim copy of {{WikimediaNoLicensing}} with a different CSS and doesn’t negate any licensing rights Wikipedia requested when I submitted my edits. It’d be quite a thing if I get blocked for using a template that has been on this website since 2004. Northern Moonlight 17:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Now at Templates for discussion Elinruby (talk) 04:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

So... I really truly hate to be That Editor, but as someone who was just bemoaning the paucity of Portuguese speakers on this board, I am rather concerned by this pile-on. WP:LISTENTOUS is an essay usually invoked when a new mobile editor hasn't yet discovered their talk page, is it not?

I am finding it hard to see what damage this editor could possibly do to an obscure gee-whiz article while logged out. Especially since the cited concern is rather trivial and the way it's been handled so far falls so far short of ideal. Rather than telling them to stop contributing, has anyone politely asked them to make edit requests on the talk page? "Sloppy work" is not exactly constructive criticism, and more effort has been put into this lolsuit than would have been needed for a page watcher (because clearly there are page watchers) to simply fix the problem.

Beyond all that, am I now understanding that whoops, we were talking about the *previous* attempt to criminalize their contributions and it was a mistake even then? I need coffee. Clearly I must have misunderstood that. smh Elinruby (talk) 20:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The previous ANI discussion was pertaining to the myriad grammatical errors present in the user's contributions, and months later, I brought up the issue again because they have shown little to no improvement in that field, and continue to edit a version of Wikipedia where they are not proficient in the language's capitalization and spelling. Also, why are we bemoaning the lack of Portuguese speakers here? If they are more proficient in Portuguese than English, then they should stick to editing the Portuguese Wikipedia. And furthermore, I fail to understand how a Portuguese speaker who stumbles in the English language could be of help in Brazil-related topics on English Wikipedia. The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 01:57, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

That would represent a failure to see on your part, sir. I gave two examples further up the thread, wikilinked for convenience. There are quite a few others that he or she could work on, without having to deal with you.

I am not going to debate this with you any further, since you fail to see. The notification wasn't even properly made until what, not quite 24 hours ago? Smh. Elinruby (talk) 02:52, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Good grief. This thread is unnecessarily difficult to follow, and probably a nightmare for anyone with accessibility issues. Those commenting should review WP:COLAS and be mindful of their formatting. Grandpallama (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

TPA revocation of blocked user Hegazeebot

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Please revoke TPA. Making personal attacks (including homophobic ones). —asparagusus (interaction) ^sprouts! 03:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

It appears User:Malcolmxl5 took care of it a minute before I posted this. Thanks! —asparagusus (interaction) ^sprouts! 03:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Asparagusus. Yes, Untamed1910 dropped a note on my talk page. Keep an eye on the IP too please. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 03:31, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Repeated unexplained addition of Arabic-like scripts by IP address 180.75.238.55 in multiple Penang-related articles

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Calling for urgent intervention on IP address 180.75.238.55 persistently making unexplained additions of Arabic-like scripts without WP:ES, despite multiple warnings and attempts to start discussion on their talk page, with zero response from said address. 1 2 3 4 hundenvonPG (talk) 08:31, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

first of all, those are not arabic script, those are jawi script which was used to write malay language in malaysia for many centuries. i cannot understand how you can tolerate tamil and chinese scripts while native malay jawi script is considered vandalism? Jawi is the only writing system besides latin to have status in Malaysia so if you don't know the history of Malaysia better be quiet! 180.75.238.55 (talk) 08:36, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@HundenvonPenang: I don't see anything "unexplained" here. The user simply added names in different script, and indicated it as Jawi script. If you think the text should be removed, please, try to reach consensus with other editors. Do not use ANI for content disputes. Vanjagenije (talk) 08:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Vanjagenije, that does not excuse IP address's persistently avoiding discussions on their talk page and making unexplained additions with zero WP:ES. Said IP address' aggressive response above says it all. hundenvonPG (talk) 08:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I have explained it, Jawi script is a native script of Malaysia. Don't be a racist. 180.75.238.55 (talk) 12:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Final warning given to this IP. Next step will be a block on editing Wikipedia. Deb (talk) 12:59, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Putting Jawi script is considered vandalism? How is that so? I have made an explanation and you don't want to read it? 180.75.238.55 (talk) 13:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Mandarin, Hokkien and Tamil are not indigenous nor regional nor official languages of Malaysia but there is no restriction for them to put their writing on Malaysian town names which is not even Chinese nor Tamil in origin. 180.75.238.55 (talk) 13:15, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Refer to your own talk page. Multiple times, I had requested you to show proof that Jawi has official status in Penang. You not only ignored them, you proceeded to add scripts wholesale and then accuse me of racism? "Better be quiet"?

Classic example of treating WP as a battleground and accusing others in bad faith.

Not even an effort to reach WP:CON, yet said IP address is pushing their edits all over, then "asking permission"? hundenvonPG (talk) 13:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CPPConstruct

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@CPPConstruct seems to be an obvious sockpuppet of blocked user @WaseemAbbaass, who also has another blocked sockpuppet named @DaDefeender.

The sockpuppet investigation can be found here: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WaseemAbbaass

If you look at CPPConstruct’s contributions, he goes onto my profile the first day his account is made, (which is only 3 days old and only boasts around 11 edits) and asks me to let him do his changes (which are the exact same changes of WaseemAbbaass and DaDefeender). It’s so painfully obvious, he is now vandalising pages such as the ISPR one.

Here is only ONE example where his disruptive editing matches the disruptive edit of, where he removed controversies despite not taking it to the talk page.

CPPConstruct: 1

WaseemAbbaass: 2 VirtualVagabond (talk) 08:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

CPPConstruct and DeDefeender (WaseemAbbaass’ sockpuppet) also have an obsession with removing the “green entertainment” part of the page.

CPPConstruct: [1]

DaDefeender: [2] VirtualVagabond (talk) 08:58, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Need a rangeblock for Oregon IPs

• 5.78.0.0/16 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))

Someone from the western suburbs of Portland, Oregon, US, has been repeatedly vandalizing music articles. The most recent effort is from the last four days at Special:Contributions/5.78.0.0/16. Every single edit in this range has been vandalism since March 1, so no worries about collateral damage. Some of the IPs in this range have already been blocked by Ohnoitsjamie, including Special:Contributions/5.78.61.251 (one month), Special:Contributions/5.78.62.210 (one month), and Special:Contributions/5.78.63.193 (one week).

Please block Special:Contributions/5.78.0.0/16 for at least a month. Thanks in advance! Binksternet (talk) 09:40, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Given that this IP (according to WHOIS) seems to belong to Hetzner, a provider of web host and colocation services, and that this IP range has been blocked as a colocation webhost before (2 year block in Feb 2022), I've filed a block request over at the open proxies Wikiproject. — AP 499D25 (talk) 13:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Blocked for a month. Hopefully that will give the open proxy folk time to take a look. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 13:56, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism and hostile behavior from Rocketman777 and Yellowboy7

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My talk page was recently vandalized by User:Rocketman771 (diff) after they had a contrary opinion to mine in a discussion at Talk:Tornadoes of 2024#New Model for main tornado article: 2024 suggested changes and improvements. In that discussion, the same user was engaging in personal attacks by calling me a coward for disengaging (diff) and based on perceived national identity. I'm not sure what sort of action is appropriate in this situation.

Following asking for admin help on my talk page, I recieved similar vandalism from (diff) from User:Yellowboy7. Seems like possible sock puppetry which I will take to WP:SPI shortly. DJ Cane _(he/him) (Talk) 18:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Don't bother with the SPI.  Confirmed and will block. Courcelles (talk) 18:25, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Both blocked and tagged. Within the checkuser window, those two are the only once I can see. Courcelles (talk) 18:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response and resolution! DJ Cane _(he/him) (Talk) 18:36, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jadidjw

Jadidjw (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Hi again ANI. This has been ongoing for too long, the WP:GF and WP:ROPE has run out for me. Jadidjw has been doing this type of stuff since 2021 (the same year they first started editing), as seen in this ANI report where they got blocked for 72 hours [43].

In July 2023, I made a SPI [44] of Jadidjw because their conduct was extremely similar to that of a sock, which includes WP:CIR and attempts to minimize the (sourced) Mongol aspect of the Hazara.

A half year later, they are still doing the same, removing sourced information at Hazaras [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50]. Apparently the reason behind some of these edits (probably all of them tbh) is because it clashes with their opinion, as they literally demonstrated in this recent talk section [51].

Right now, they are currently edit warring to have their way at Hazaras [52] [53] [54], which is not the first time. They already got blocked for a month for violating 3RR in that article during their attempts to minimize the Mongol aspect [55]. They are also being dishonest (not the first time, see the SPI), claiming that there was some previous consensus for this massive removal of sourced info [56] - which there wasn't.

At Sheikh Ali (Hazara tribe), they randomly manually reverted me to restored an unsourced edit of a sock [57], pretty strange. Based on this, I don't think they are networth to this site, at least not in Hazara related articles, but that's where all their edits are. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:16, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

What I see is an editor who has been disruptive for yours, and has received a 72 hour block, a two week block and a one month block. And yet their disruption continues. I have indefinitely blocked Jadidjw. Cullen328 (talk) 01:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

209.214.83.194

209.214.83.194 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) – requires revocation of talk page access. Remsense诉 01:04, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk page access removed for the duration of the block. Cullen328 (talk) 01:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

2A00:23C5:1B03:5301:2804:35AB:1A12:F4BA

Ip disruptive editing and vandalism, editor is added unnecessary spaces, change words, repeatedly changing format on several Thomas episode pages.Magical Golden Whip (talk) 02:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Magical Golden Whip,

Unless you provide diffs/edits of the content changes you are concerned about, it's unlikely that anyone will take action on your complaint. Be specific and demonstrate what edits are inappropriate. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:08, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Nycarchitecture212 is deleting mainstream scholarship about Judaism

Nycarchitecture212 has been warned about deleting information from the articles ([58], [59], and [60]). Then they removed again mainstream WP:SCHOLARSHIP about Judaism at Ahab ([61], [62], and [63]). I get a feeling that they are only here in order to delete mainstream academic knowledge which they find offensive to their own religion. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I was warned by the person who posted this here. Look what he wrote here describing his ax to grind with Jews on a thread where I was having an academic discussion with zero extraordinary claims: "The POV of Orthodox Jews upon early Judaism is to a large extent void currency... Despite your protestations, it is clear that both these groups promote cult pseudohistory. I do have an ax to grind against pseudohistory, especially against fundamentalist pseudohistory."

I am here to write articles about architecture in New York City and Judaism, as I've had in my bio as always, including articles such as Vilna Goan, etc. Having a focus on Jewish articles is not incriminating or inappropriate by any means. I think my contributions to those articles are valid and I did not do the things he is accusing me of.

There is no edit warring going on on any of my active articles. My edits had detailed comments for context, made sense and were in good faith, and I'm currently on a few talk pages making progress with other users on contributions to articles. If I make mistakes, I own up to them and learn, as a new editor learning conventions on Wikipedia. I didn't think making edits with comments was worthy of a warning before from him, and I don't think starting a talk page discussion about the section on Judaism warrents being warned here by him either. You can read the post yourself he is complaining about here in Talk:Abrahamic religions which he responded to by coming here a minute after to complain about it instead of discussing on the talk page.

I have a strong background in Jewish scholarship and I've been always willing to talk things out on talk pages, of which this user is involved in a few articles I am contributing to. Of course if I come accross blatant Jew hatred online I will update it. For example, I removed some nasty thing about pigs and blood Ahab#DeathofAhab from the Ahab page and he reverted it back. Can an admin please help me out?

I think this man works for a Christian missionary organization and I don't know his motives but I notice a pattern that he and another user named VenusFeuerFall seem to be involved with a lot of the same pages doing the same things. Nycarchitecture212 (talk) 03:34, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

"his ax to grind with Jews"—if you do provide evidence that I'm antisemitic, then I should get banned. But if you fail to do so, you should get banned for WP:ASPERSIONS. tgeorgescu (talk) 03:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Don't reduce my argument to something that simplistic. Let admins read what I wrote without you contextualizing it. Stop talking to me please. Nycarchitecture212 (talk) 03:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Anyway, it sounds highly implausible that a Christian missionary would write something like Except for the bytdwd inscription, there is no attestation for David, independent of the Bible. Instead, there is a lot of evidence that David did not really had a kingdom worthy of the name kingdom. If you mean that he ruled over a loose confederation of tribes, then I might agree. ([64]). tgeorgescu (talk) 03:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

And VenusFeuerFalle is doing the same things, namely spreading mainstream academic knowledge through Wikipedia. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

FYI, I have no ax to grind against the civil and political rights of Orthodox Jews. It is just that their views upon early Judaism have been debunked by mainstream history and mainstream archaeology. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:30, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Their previous deletion of WP:SCHOLARSHIP about Judaism was [65]. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:55, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I already said that was a mistake, and am a new user learning Wikipedia conventions; I thought writing a comment with explanation on the edit was enough, and didn't realize I need to go to the talk page to make longer edits like that. As a result, I am more involved on the talk pages now and haven't done that since. I will not repeat my points I made. I should be able to defend myself without you injecting a response to everything I say. I don't want to talk to you anymore.

Nycarchitecture212 (talk) 04:10, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, before you got warned, it was a honest mistake. But after you got warned, it wasn't. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:13, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

What you wrote doesn't even make sense. Just stop writing to me please and replying to everything I write. I should be able to defend myself without you contextualizing every single thing I write. Nycarchitecture212 (talk) 04:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Your demands that I should not reply here are void by default. This is not your own talk page, it is a public noticeboard. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

My opinion as an uninvolved observer:

I agree that their first deletion of content was problematic, but I'm less convinced about those others, because the sourcing for them is really not great. I also think that the "In Rabbinic literature" section of the same page is a total mess and that this dispute feels very much like bikeshedding given that. Loki (talk) 04:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Yup, agree upon what are now links 62 and 63. But I disagree about 61. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Solution: I suggest that they receive a warning from an admin that they are not allowed to remove WP:SCHOLARSHIP because they think that mainstream history and mainstream Bible scholarship are Christian plots against Judaism. Why else would they say that I seek to convert Jews to Christianity? They think that I talk like a Christian professor from a theological seminary. Priests or pastors would not talk like that, but professors would. Priests or pastors usually abide by "What's learned at seminary stays at seminary." tgeorgescu (talk) 05:45, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Dilemma

I recently shared a blog post I had written to a relevant subreddit. I've posted to this subreddit a few times and got good responses.My most recent post had a response on it when I checked it in the morning (I usually post just before I go to sleep) that insinuated I had engaged in some kind of vote manipulation due to how well the post had been performing in terms of upvotes and the lack of any other comments at the time of their comment.The post has since received more comments that are responses to the actual blog post. However, the accusatory comment has received some amount of support and is the second most upvoted comment (which means it will feature fairly prominently when people view the reddit comments), beating out relevant comments.I found it unfortunate that this comment would be waiting there for all the other people who came to comment on the post so I wanted to respond to it .The problem I had was that I can't prove that I didn't engage in vote manipulation. It would benefit me to do so as it would get more people looking at my post and aware of who I am (or so the hypothetical reasoning could go). Additionally, if I tried to defend myself against the claim I would only make myself seem more suspicious. I also don't want to leave the comment unanswered as I believe it gives the wrong idea about not only my character, but also the quality of the blog post I shared (since I didn't do any vote manipulation it would appear that it is doing well on its own merits!). So how could I respond to such an unfalsifiable claim without seeming suspiciously defensive and maintaining a good face?Note that there aren't any ads on my blog site and the content is all free. I was also surprised at how well the post performed, most of my other posts didn't do quite so well so I can understand it looking like a suspicious outlier. Holland trip (talk) 07:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)