Talk:Cirsium greimleri

Greimler's thistle

Hi @Иованъ, I cannot find a mention of Cirsium greimleri having a common name of Greimler's thistle. Is that in a reference anywhere? Thanks, -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 01:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Also what is happening with the notes in this article?? -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 01:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

The letters? Ellenberg indicator values also have letter abbreviations. Different readers will be familiar with different names, but the letters are universal. Ivan (talk) 05:57, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello! You are correct. This species has no English common name yet. It is a translation of the name given to it in Czech (Pichliač Greimlerov) and other languages. I had thought about not including it in the article per WP:SPECULATION, but the formation in English of common names for plants with a patronymic species name is fairly regular. If you disagree, feel free to remove it. Ivan (talk) 05:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I can only find it as Pichliač Greimlerov in Vavrinec. Is there a peer-reviewed publication or database that uses that name? I know that C. waldsteinii can go by Pichliač Waldsteinov so I believe you, but I need to be able to use some reliable sources if I were to introduce it into the article. We can introduce using the {{lang-cs}} and {{literal translation}} templates.

As it stands, the article is overly technical and will be very difficult for a non-specialist to navigate. Therefore, I have tagged it. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 06:16, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Classicwiki could you tag the technical sections with {{Technical inline}}? Most of the content is fairly normal for a species article (see Ourisia integrifolia for example), but I agree that some of it is too technical. It would help to know which parts. Ivan (talk) 07:07, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Ivan, it is great that there is so much detail here, you have really dived deep into the research. However, Wikipedia is not a scientific manual (Wikipedia:NOTTEXTBOOK). Personally, I like as much information as possible, but this is dense and difficult to navigate for a reader. Too many numbers in the [X-]XX-XX[-X] range format (I would encourage the use the {{Convert}} template too). I like the touch with the colored text, but I believe it is against the MOS (MOS:LINKCOLOR). Ourisia integrifolia is much more manageable (although it also has its pitfalls).

Too much jargon (MOS:JARGON), lots of Wiktionary links. The lookalikes section is a bit superfluous. Often, species in the same genus can look alike, so to compare it to 17 others feels like overkill, especially since they all derive from the same source.

I commend you on your efforts here, technical language is necessary, but we must keep the reader in mind. A long way of saying, if I were to put the tags inline they would be all over the place. I hope you see where I am coming from. If you disagree, feel free to remove the tags or bring in another experienced editor to this discussion. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 07:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

For a database, you could use the German name from the Austrian Red List, Greimler-Kratzdistel.

• Schratt-Ehrendorfer, L. (2022). "Cirsium". Rote Liste der Farn- und Blütenpflanzen Österreichs (3rd ed.). Retrieved 2024-07-04.

Ivan (talk) 07:12, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Very limited as well. I'm fine with Greimler's thistle for the time being, as it is a very common naming pattern in this genus. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 07:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Ivan. Forgot to ping, sorry if you recieved it multiple times. -- Classicwiki (talk) If you reply to me here, please ping me. 06:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)