Talk:Second Battle of Shuja'iyya: Difference between revisions
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:I agree with you. Indeed, the cited reference doesn't include "victory". As the status was changed few times already, I don't want to change it again to "Israeli withdrawal", so this I'm tagging @[[User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|The Great Mule of Eupatoria]] who change if from "Israeli withdrawal" to "Palestinian [paramilitaries] victory". [[User:Guy Haddad 1|Guy Haddad 1]] ([[User talk:Guy Haddad 1|talk]]) 12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
:I agree with you. Indeed, the cited reference doesn't include "victory". As the status was changed few times already, I don't want to change it again to "Israeli withdrawal", so this I'm tagging @[[User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|The Great Mule of Eupatoria]] who change if from "Israeli withdrawal" to "Palestinian [paramilitaries] victory". [[User:Guy Haddad 1|Guy Haddad 1]] ([[User talk:Guy Haddad 1|talk]]) 12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:If I am recalling correctly Wikipedia policy there are 3 results which are “victory”, “defeat” and “inconclusive”, and “Israeli withdrawal” doesn’t appear to be the correct result. This was one of the reasons I moved the hamad city and tel al hawa incursions, as they weren’t “set piece battles” but more of raids. As for shujaiyya and Beit Hanoun, the areas saw heavy fighting and a prolonged struggle. With Shujaiyya in particular Hamas publicised footage of them attacking Israeli forces, and even Israeli media uploaded footage of Hamas militants foiling their attempts to blow their cover with drones. Another aspect of Shujaiyya is the sheer military loss for Israel, and it seems confined to the town itself, after Israel withdrew residents saw many destroyed vehicles (Zelda APC in most cases), indicating a major loss of resources and that this was not likely to be Israel moving out of its whim but rather after suffering a heavy blow by guerilla forces. |
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:https://nabd.com/s/139841134-ad8175/الشجاعية.-..-آليات-عسكرية-مدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-تركها-الاحتلال-وانسحب |
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:https://www.almayadeen.net/tv-reports/الميادين-ترصد-آليات-الاحتلال-المدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-في-غزة |
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:Israel’s claim of killing 150 militants is questionable too, as the health ministry recovered 60 bodies altogether after Israeli forces withdrew. It might not be sufficient, but remember Gaza is not like Ukraine for example with several agencies reporting from within. It is effectively sealed off, and any analysis on the ground can only be done by what is provided by the Israeli military, the media of the Palestinian militants, and the handiwork of the militants in the form of destroyed vehicles and tracks [[User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|The Great Mule of Eupatoria]] ([[User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|talk]]) 13:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 13:45, 20 July 2024
Merge complete
@Genabab Hello, I have completed the merge and requested the deletion of the duplicate page. Thank you! Evaporation123 (talk) 22:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Result= "Palestinian victory"?
Is there any RS saying that the result of this battle was a "Palestinian victory"? Originally, this article said the result was "Israeli withdrawal", which is consistent with other articles about battles during this war. (e.g. Siege of Khan Yunis, Battle of Shuja'iyya (2023), Battle of Beit Hanoun, Hamad City incursion). the provided citation does not call it a "victory".
Rainsage (talk) 15:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with you. Indeed, the cited reference doesn't include "victory". As the status was changed few times already, I don't want to change it again to "Israeli withdrawal", so this I'm tagging @The Great Mule of Eupatoria who change if from "Israeli withdrawal" to "Palestinian [paramilitaries] victory". Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- If I am recalling correctly Wikipedia policy there are 3 results which are “victory”, “defeat” and “inconclusive”, and “Israeli withdrawal” doesn’t appear to be the correct result. This was one of the reasons I moved the hamad city and tel al hawa incursions, as they weren’t “set piece battles” but more of raids. As for shujaiyya and Beit Hanoun, the areas saw heavy fighting and a prolonged struggle. With Shujaiyya in particular Hamas publicised footage of them attacking Israeli forces, and even Israeli media uploaded footage of Hamas militants foiling their attempts to blow their cover with drones. Another aspect of Shujaiyya is the sheer military loss for Israel, and it seems confined to the town itself, after Israel withdrew residents saw many destroyed vehicles (Zelda APC in most cases), indicating a major loss of resources and that this was not likely to be Israel moving out of its whim but rather after suffering a heavy blow by guerilla forces.
- https://nabd.com/s/139841134-ad8175/الشجاعية.-..-آليات-عسكرية-مدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-تركها-الاحتلال-وانسحب
- https://www.almayadeen.net/tv-reports/الميادين-ترصد-آليات-الاحتلال-المدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-في-غزة
- Israel’s claim of killing 150 militants is questionable too, as the health ministry recovered 60 bodies altogether after Israeli forces withdrew. It might not be sufficient, but remember Gaza is not like Ukraine for example with several agencies reporting from within. It is effectively sealed off, and any analysis on the ground can only be done by what is provided by the Israeli military, the media of the Palestinian militants, and the handiwork of the militants in the form of destroyed vehicles and tracks The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 13:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)