Talk:Second Battle of Shuja'iyya: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 13:45, 20 July 2024

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Niedrig

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.
- Merge Nahal Rafiah (draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority

Palestine Low‑importance

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
Niedrig	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Merge complete

@Genabab Hello, I have completed the merge and requested the deletion of the duplicate page. Thank you! Evaporation123 (talk) 22:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Result= "Palestinian victory"?

Is there any RS saying that the result of this battle was a "Palestinian victory"? Originally, this article said the result was "Israeli withdrawal", which is consistent with other articles about battles during this war. (e.g. Siege of Khan Yunis, Battle of Shuja'iyya (2023), Battle of Beit Hanoun, Hamad City incursion). the provided citation does not call it a "victory".

Rainsage (talk) 15:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. Indeed, the cited reference doesn't include "victory". As the status was changed few times already, I don't want to change it again to "Israeli withdrawal", so this I'm tagging @The Great Mule of Eupatoria who change if from "Israeli withdrawal" to "Palestinian [paramilitaries] victory". Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I am recalling correctly Wikipedia policy there are 3 results which are “victory”, “defeat” and “inconclusive”, and “Israeli withdrawal” doesn’t appear to be the correct result. This was one of the reasons I moved the hamad city and tel al hawa incursions, as they weren’t “set piece battles” but more of raids. As for shujaiyya and Beit Hanoun, the areas saw heavy fighting and a prolonged struggle. With Shujaiyya in particular Hamas publicised footage of them attacking Israeli forces, and even Israeli media uploaded footage of Hamas militants foiling their attempts to blow their cover with drones. Another aspect of Shujaiyya is the sheer military loss for Israel, and it seems confined to the town itself, after Israel withdrew residents saw many destroyed vehicles (Zelda APC in most cases), indicating a major loss of resources and that this was not likely to be Israel moving out of its whim but rather after suffering a heavy blow by guerilla forces.

https://nabd.com/s/139841134-ad8175/الشجاعية.-..-آليات-عسكرية-مدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-تركها-الاحتلال-وانسحب

https://www.almayadeen.net/tv-reports/الميادين-ترصد-آليات-الاحتلال-المدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-في-غزة

Israel’s claim of killing 150 militants is questionable too, as the health ministry recovered 60 bodies altogether after Israeli forces withdrew. It might not be sufficient, but remember Gaza is not like Ukraine for example with several agencies reporting from within. It is effectively sealed off, and any analysis on the ground can only be done by what is provided by the Israeli military, the media of the Palestinian militants, and the handiwork of the militants in the form of destroyed vehicles and tracks The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 13:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 :I agree with you. Indeed, the cited reference doesn't include "victory". As the status was changed few times already, I don't want to change it again to "Israeli withdrawal", so this I'm tagging @[[User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|The Great Mule of Eupatoria]] who change if from "Israeli withdrawal" to "Palestinian [paramilitaries] victory". [[User:Guy Haddad 1|Guy Haddad 1]] ([[User talk:Guy Haddad 1|talk]]) 12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
+:If I am recalling correctly Wikipedia policy there are 3 results which are “victory”, “defeat” and “inconclusive”, and “Israeli withdrawal” doesn’t appear to be the correct result. This was one of the reasons I moved the hamad city and tel al hawa incursions, as they weren’t “set piece battles” but more of raids. As for shujaiyya and Beit Hanoun, the areas saw heavy fighting and a prolonged struggle. With Shujaiyya in particular Hamas publicised footage of them attacking Israeli forces, and even Israeli media uploaded footage of Hamas militants foiling their attempts to blow their cover with drones. Another aspect of Shujaiyya is the sheer military loss for Israel, and it seems confined to the town itself, after Israel withdrew residents saw many destroyed vehicles (Zelda APC in most cases), indicating a major loss of resources and that this was not likely to be Israel moving out of its whim but rather after suffering a heavy blow by guerilla forces.
+:https://nabd.com/s/139841134-ad8175/الشجاعية.-..-آليات-عسكرية-مدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-تركها-الاحتلال-وانسحب
+:https://www.almayadeen.net/tv-reports/الميادين-ترصد-آليات-الاحتلال-المدمرة-في-حي-الشجاعية-في-غزة
+:Israel’s claim of killing 150 militants is questionable too, as the health ministry recovered 60 bodies altogether after Israeli forces withdrew. It might not be sufficient, but remember Gaza is not like Ukraine for example with several agencies reporting from within. It is effectively sealed off, and any analysis on the ground can only be done by what is provided by the Israeli military, the media of the Palestinian militants, and the handiwork of the militants in the form of destroyed vehicles and tracks  [[User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|The Great Mule of Eupatoria]] ([[User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria|talk]]) 13:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)