User talk:M.V.E.i.

Welcome!

Hello, M.V.E.i., and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!  Luksuh 19:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

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Duplicate images uploaded

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Nonsense edit in Ashkenazi Jews

Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia, as you did to the Ashkenazi Jews page. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

In general, controversial edits should be discussed at talk page. Please see Image talk:Ashfamo1.JPG and Talk:Ashkenazi Jews#The image. Also, please use edit summary in your edits. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 23:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

What part of the previous message you did not understand? The same story in Template:Italian ethnicity. Without consensus your changes won't stick. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

English people pic

I like your version of the English people picture. Just one thing, do you think we could have at least one woman? Someone from an ethnic minority would be a good idea as well. What do you think? Alun 10:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

image onTemplate:Infobox Jew

please review Talk:Jew to understand the coordination and collaboration that took place in choosing the image for the temple (the section "Collage image", "Ashkenazi-centric portrait collage", "Smaller collage" and later "Come one now! How are those pictures fair?" which was a reaction to your edits). This is not to say we are not open to other idea for collage but please talk about on the talk page first. While wikipedia is not an bureaucracy it is also not an anarchy but works by its own rules which you much understand in order to be a valued contributor. I hope that you continue to edit wikipedia, but please "play nice" and understand that you are not the only person trying to make wikipedia the best encyclopedia it can be. Jon513 20:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Wrong address

I did not remove the image. As you can see, I am not alone rejecting it. I would suggest you listen to what people say and try to improve. Using elbows won't work. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

3RR

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. Thank you. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

You were warned about 3RR but you chose to violate it. Unless you self-revert quickly, you are subject to be reported and blocked. If you continue misbehaving, every subsequent block will become longer and eventually you will be banned. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hours later, and you still did not revert. OK, I will let it go this first time, because you are a new user, and in the spirit of good faith. Nobody is against a good photo collage, but a few problems with yours are:

• • You forgot to include women. At least Golda Meir and Ayn Rand should be there.
  • Do not replace image in the article Jew with the image from Ashkenazi Jews. See Sephardi Jews.
  • Please find some more encyclopedic photo of Einstein - he looks like a freak.
  • License: I don't think PD applies. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 20:12, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ownership

Please see WP:OWN and learn our WP:RULES. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 19:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Discuss the Ashkenazi_Jews collage here

Talk:Ashkenazi_Jews. Click on "discussion" at the Ashkenazi Jews page. Remember the three reverts rule. --Metzenberg 17:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

You've just made a 4th revert on the Ashkenazi Jews page. That violates the Wikipedia 3Rs rule. --Metzenberg 20:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. --Metzenberg 01:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Three Revert Rule

Hi! Wanted to alert you that Wikipedia has a Three Revert Rule which prohibits editors from reverting an article more than 3 times in a 24-hour period. The purpose of the rule is to prevent an edit war between editors with different views from disrupting the encyclopedia. Violating the rule can result in being blocked. I don't feel inclined to enforce the rule as a first step, so I'm not going to check exactly how many reverts you made when, but please discuss differences with other editors rather than using back-and-forth reverting, and please do be aware of the rule and be sure to observe it in the future. If necessaary you can ask an administrator to help you, including protecting the page to prevent further problems. Thanks! Best, --Shirahadasha 15:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Italian people image

Indeed, it looks far better now. Good job. I hope you continue making useful contributions. Sicilianmandolin 16:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Ashkenazi Jews

I have protected the page to stop an edit war from disrupting this page. Please discuss this matter on the article's talk page. I would suggest consulting the association of members' advocates or the mediation cabal if you find yourself having difficulty discussing this matter by yourself. Best, --Shirahadasha 17:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Got your note. The page is currently protected for the time being, so no-one can edit it for now. Please explain on Talk:Ashkenazi Jews why you think the set of pictures you are proposing is a better choice. Best, --Shirahadasha 18:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, please be sure to use the signature button on the edit tools or to add four tildes (~~~~) after your message. This "signs" your name and creates a link to your user page. Best, --Shirahadasha 18:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Looks like you were outvoted on this one - some of the other editors who weighed in are regular editors on the page and they would probably have visited it anyway. No worries -- these things happen. Suggest finding something else to help out with or another article of interest for the time being. Best, --Shirahadasha 14:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi! It's usually wise to assume good faith on the part of other editors -- helps maintain civility and a pleasant environment for everyone. Best, --Shirahadasha 00:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

A final thought. I wanted to thank you for coming up with the idea of adding a collage of pictures as a way to help spruce up the article. It's a really good touch. It adds a lot to the way the article looks. Even if others wanted to change some of the individual pictures, having a collage was your idea and you've made a lasting improvement. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:03, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

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Hi friend

Can you add your opinion here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sandstein#.5B.5BUser:Beatles_Fab_Four.5D.5D

Tnank you, my dear friend! Don't let neo-Nazis raise thei heads! The truth is on our side. We will win. 193.232.195.136 17:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Take a look. I tried to be politicaaly correct. Hope it's well done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bronze_Soldier_of_Tallinn For some who try to forget and rewrite the history 85.140.243.184 21:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Your recent actions

Wikipedia is not forum or soapbox (WP:NOT), not is it a battleground (WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a battleground). Users are required to be civil and use civil language - "people must act with civility toward one another" (WP:CIV). Also, please stop edits to talk archive pages, they are called "Archives" for a reason.

You have been neither civil or reasonable - and you haven't used your edit rights for bettering Wikipedia. Instead you are pushing your very highly POV views (which differ significantly from any source in the world, including Soviet and Russian sources. Next time, please try to give some sources to outrageous claims).

What am I talking about? These: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7] - I will not go to older edits then few days, though.

Now, as for user Beatles FF, I did not ask for his block - although, I have started to suspect that it was the best solution. His highly insulting edit summaries, promotion of racial hatred, edit warring without giving any reasons, refusing to discuss things without YELLING, bold and civilly ("Well, I get bored of your annoying comments.", "I presume you are a denier of the Holocost"), editing/deleting others and his own comments, refusing to accept even mildest criticism and taking it as a personal attack... I seriously doubt that he would have become a good editor and contributor to Wikipedia in the near future.

As for you, I do hope that you can find it in your heart to become civil, calm and reliable editor, who can meaningfully contribute to Wikipedia, always following NPOV guidelines, giving sources to your edits in articles - or sources to your claims in talk pages. DLX 16:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

DLX, i have been there, i took part in the arguments so don't try to fool me. Your comments were really ennoying because they were full of lies you wrote to make you feel better about your nationality. He already became a good editor, he deleted lies you wrote. He fought against vandalism, because you writing lies in articles is vandalism. My sources are the most real sorces in the world, my family in which everybody fought at The Great Patriotic War 1941-1945, and those who were under Nazi occupation and saw it all. M.V.E.i. 16:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Please at least try to be calm and reasonable, I don't think it is too much to ask. Now, can you give some examples of my "lies" in both talk pages and in article, because as far as I know, I haven't said or inserted anything unsourced. Also, your family is not an acceptable source for Wikipedia, we really rather have verifiable sources here. And another thing - please give an example of few "good edits" done by Beatles Fab Four. DLX 16:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

If you want good edits then check out all the times that Fab Four deleted your lies from articles. Examples of youre lies? easy:

Claiming Estonian SS was "didnt have a politcle wing" (Yeah, right, so they insisted to have the SS initials in their name because they liked the combination of the letters), claiming that the Estonian SS didnt kill any Jews (Thought the Estonians started the Holocaust in Estonia even before the Germans arrived their), and there was many other lies you wrote their, i just gave the to examples that came to my mind. M.V.E.i. 16:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Please, let us stay on one talk page, easier for us both.

Now, here is the edit list for user Beatles Fab Four: [8]. Please go though that and give examples where he "deleted my lies".

I am not sure what you mean by "didnt have a politcle wing", as I am not familiar with the word "politcle". But, being WWII expert that you are, you must know that no Estonian was a member of Nazi party nor did any Estonian belong to SS-proper, only Waffen-SS. Like I quoted in the talk page:

The Nuremberg Trials, in declaring the Waffen SS a criminal organisation, explicitly excluded conscripts in the following terms:

Tribunal declares to be criminal within the meaning of the Charter the group composed of those persons who had been officially accepted as members of the SS as enumerated in the preceding paragraph who became or remained members of the organisation with knowledge that it was being used for the commission of acts declared criminal by Article 6 of the Charter or who were personally implicated as members of the organisation in the commission of such crimes, excluding, however, those who were drafted into membership by the State in such a way as to give them no choice in the matter, and who had committed no such crimes.

In April 13, 1950, a message from the U.S. High Commission in Germany (HICOG), signed by John McCloy to the Secretary of State, clarified the US position on the "Baltic Legions": they were not to be seen as "movements", "volunteer", or "SS". In short, they were not given the training, indoctrination, and induction normally given to SS members. Subsequently the US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that:

The Baltic Waffen SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States.

It is simply ridiculous to think, that U.S. High Commission in Germany or Nurenberg Trials would have declared anything like that if there would have been even minor suspicion that the Baltic Waffen SS Units would have been involved in holocaust.

As for your repeated claim, that "the Estonians started the Holocaust in Estonia even before the Germans arrived", that is very clearly just a lie. See History of the Jews in Estonia - let me quote some relevant passages to you from there:

• Approximately 200 Jews fought in combat in the Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920) for the creation of the Republic of Estonia. 70 of these men were volunteers. The creation of the Republic of Estonia in 1918 marked the beginning of a new era in the life of the Jews.

• From the very first days of her existence as a state, Estonia showed her tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities. This set the stage for energetic growth in the political and cultural activities of Jewish society.

• The cultural autonomy of minority peoples is an exceptional phenomenon in European cultural history. Therefore Jewish cultural autonomy was of great interest to global Jewish community. The Jewish National Endowment Keren Kajamet presented the Estonian government with a certificate of gratitude for this achievement.

• The peaceful and active life of the small Jewish community in Estonia came to an abrupt halt in 1940 with the Soviet occupation of Estonia. Cultural autonomy in addition to all of its institutions was liquidated in July 1940. In July and August of the same year all organisations, associations, societies and corporations were closed. A large group of Jews (about 400) were deported into prison camps in Russia by the Soviet authorities on June 14, 1941.

• Round-ups and killings of Jews began immediately following the arrival of the first German troops in Estonia in the summer of 1941, who were closely followed by the extermination squad Einsatzkommando (Sonderkommando) 1A, part of Einsatzgruppe A. Arrests and executions continued as the Germans advanced through Estonia. About 75% of Estonia's Jewish community, aware of the fate that otherwise awaited them, had managed to escape to the Soviet Union; virtually all the remainder (between 950 and 1000 men, women and children) were killed before the end of 1941. Fewer than a dozen Estonian Jews are known to have survived the war in Estonia.

• From 1944 until 1988 the Estonian Jewish community, as elsewhere in the territories controlled by the Soviet Union, had no organisations, associations nor even clubs. The Soviet authorities were intolerant towards Zionism and all Jewry was generally equalled with Zionism.

So... let us see. Cultural independence, tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities, certificate of gratitude. Then, Soviets occupied Estonia and immediately sent 400 (or 500, number varies in different sources) Jews to prison camps. Very few of them were seen alive ever again.

75% of the rest fled to Soviet Union, as it was only way to go (actually, some escaped to Sweden, too - but I cannot find quickly a source for that. Nor is it relevant just now.). Germans came - and murdered the remaining Jews, no surprises there.

Soviets came back again. No cultural independence, no tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities, no organisations, associations nor even clubs.

Perestroika and Estonia regains independence:

• Jewish Cultural Society was established in Tallinn. It was the first of its kind in the entire Soviet Union. Exceptionally in the Soviet Union, there were no problems with registering either the society or its symbols. The Society began by organising concerts and lectures. Soon the question of founding a Jewish school surfaced. As a start, a Sunday school was established in 1989. The Tallinn Jewish Gymnasium on Karu Street was being used by a vocational school. In 1990, a Jewish School with classes 1 through 9 was established.

• Jewish culture clubs, which remained under the wing of the Cultural Society, were started in Tartu, Narva and Kohtla-Järve. Other organisations followed; the sports society Maccabi, the Society for the Gurini Goodwill Endowment and the Jewish Veterans Union. Life returned to the Jewish congregation. Courses in Hebrew were re-established. Thanks to the Jewish communities of Israel and other countries a relatively large library was opened.

• The restoration of Estonian independence in 1991 brought about numerous political, economic and social changes. The Jews living in Estonia could now defend their rights as a national minority. The Jewish Community was established in 1992, and its charter was approved on April 11, 1992. Likewise, Estonia has traditionally regarded its Jews with friendship and accommodation. To illustrate this a new Cultural Autonomy Act, based on the 1925 law, was passed in Estonia in October 1993. This law grants minority peoples, such as Jews, a legal guarantee to preserve their national identities.

• In 2005, construction began on a new building in Tallinn, which will house a sanctuary, mikvah, and restaurant, and will be a memorial to the pre-war synagogue. Opening is scheduled for May 2007.

Now... please tell me again, who mistreated Jews? And don't even try to claim that the article is written by "Nazi revisionists", as there are several Jews among the editors of the article - you cannot claim that they would allow any wrong ("Fascist") information to be said about history of the Jews. DLX 17:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

They had a choice, they were the once who chose it. Again, they started the holocaust before the Germans came.

Who cares what they decided in 1950. It was already the cold war offcourse they will try to suck-up to ex-Nazis to tear the Soviet Union from the inside. They were involved in the holocaust, it's a fact, ask any Estonian Jew. Jews always were in every independence movement so somwhere they would be excepted. I saw a ducumentary with Jews from Estonia who menneged to escape with the Soviets, and also Estinian vitnesses, and they told how Estonians closed hundreeds of Jews in every synogoge and burned them down. You're right about what was with the Jews in USSR (I'm half Jewish, my mother is Jewish, and my grand-grandpa set in Jail there for a short time for teaching Hebrew), but nevertheless, the Soviets didn't give to Estonians to make pogroms at Jews. By the way, at the days of the Tallin Liberator reburial there were many interviews with Jews from Estonia telling how Estonians murdered their people then. All the Jewqish community activities in the 80s and 90s was spoonsored by the Jews, and dont forget in 1987-1989 it was still the Soviet Union. Estonia is desperate for world support, thats why for now the Jews are safe there. Offcourse there are Jews among the writers of the article, but there are also Estonians. M.V.E.i. 17:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

You know, you are pushing your personal - and I might add, highly racist - opinion. Come up with a single source of "started the holocaust before the Germans came", because now it has as much base as my claim that President Putin is a Tooth Fairy. And do you really think cold war matters (it had not started during the Nuremberg Trials, fyi), when we are talking about crimes against humanity? How petty-minded can you get? Please look at the sources, the facts... none of them support your version of history, just face it, you are wrong.

And please do not disregard my other questions/replies, that was the favourite tactic of FBB as well - yell really loudly "You all are fascists" and keep repeating it, no matter what is said by others. DLX 17:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a fact and i explained you why and from where i took it. Putin cant be a Tuth Fairy, she's to tall for him. The cold war began when USSR was founded, it just didn't have the name yet. And abou your question, America spreat so much lies about the USSR, like saying Borman is a Russian spy (And todey even they confess it was a lie), and Senathor Joseph MacArthy who even commited crimed against humanity. Infact, USA contenued the previously-stoped cold war already at the Race For Berlin, which the Soviets won. Already at the founding of the United Nations Security Council Britain made shure France will get a seat there so the west could have more seats there (France, the country who lay as a carpet infront of the Nazis). The cold war was always in the air. M.V.E.i. 18:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I've done with both this discussion and editing Wikipedia for today. There is really no point to discuss this further, as you fail to provide any sources (where is the explanation for "why and from where i took it"?) or even look at any source/information I provide. Estonians have never hated or hurt the Jews, that is a simple fact (fyi, my best friend is a Jew, several Estonian "national treasures" are Jews (Eino Baskin and Eri Klas, for example)). Hopefully in the future you can open your mind for different views - for example, read different history books, all Russian, English and American. You cannot presume all of them are lying. Thank you for the discussion and I hope that our next meeting will be in better circumstances. DLX 18:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

We will prove that DLX is a constant lier. READ THIS DLX

In May 2005, Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip gave a speech while visiting Klooga in which he both condemned the Holocaust and accepted that Estonian citizens were complicit in committing war crimes during WWII: Although these murderers must answer for their crimes as individuals, the Estonian Government continues to do everything possible to expose these crimes. I apologise for the fact that Estonian citizens could be found among those who participated in the murdering of people or assisted in the perpetration of these crimes.

To be continued (with millions of links) 85.140.243.184 18:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

THATS what i was talking about. It's a fact that Estonians, together with Latvians and Lithuenians had the highest precent of population helping to the Nazis in Europe. And DLX saying that the Estonians didn't participate in the German war-crimes, just proves my point, im Psychology this is called denial, one of the most not healthiest in Defence Mechanism. M.V.E.i. 21:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for repeated abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

You, sir, have been disrupting various talk pages with your personal attacks against all and sundry who do not share your particular point of view. This stops now. Once your block expires, you can disagree with whomever you want as strongly as you want, but you will please do it with perfect civility, or you will face decidedly longer blocks. Sandstein 21:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

And the images you uploaded, Image:Honour.JPG, Image:NotGivinUp.JPG and Image:Anti-Vandalism.JPG, have been deleted as blatant copyright infringements. World War II medals are certainly not {{PD-old}}. Sandstein 21:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write PD-old, i wrote PD-art. Point of view?? You started blocking people and you didn't even learn the case. This Estonian wrote lies, he tried to lie about World War 2 to make himself feel less shame about his nationallity. He wrote such obvious lies, that it was just pure vandalism. You, by blocking us instead of him, took part in this vandalism, because now those few Estonians who write lies there could write anything they want, and there will be no one to stop them. M.V.E.i. 16:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

You, dear sir, are a liar. I am in no way shamed about my "nationallity", perhaps the opposite might apply. How about actually showing where I lied or vandalized the article, instead of using Soviet-style propaganda BS? I have asked for proof from you quite several times by now - you have failed to respond. And you really should apologize to Estonians for your racist remarks. DLX 20:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm proud of mine. You are shames, thats why you lie, to reduce your shame. Examples of lies are when you said Estonian SS didn't kill any Jews, and you had many other like that. M.V.E.i. 21:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Together we will win. We all ordinary Russians condemn Stalin crimes, but this DLX cannot admit elementary things about Estonian WW2 crimes. BTW he constantly purges wiki articles on such crimes. LOVE AND PEACE 85.140.211.200 21:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

We already won, in 1945. The truth is one, and there are to many people that know it, so DLX could not change it. By the way, about the Sandstein or whatever who blocked us, i knew that would happen. He's a German, so i expected it. He didn't say anything to DLX about what he does. M.V.E.i. 21:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC)