User talk:Tewfik/Archive 9

• (rocky start) Archive 1
• (until 17-06-2006) Archive 2
• (until 03-08-2006) Archive 3
• (until 04-09-2006) Archive 4
• (until 30-10-2006) Archive 5
• (until 21-02-2007) Archive 6
• (until 27-05-2007) Archive 7
• (until 20-07-2007) Archive 8

Editing of comments at House demolition in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Tewfik, the editing -- or censorship -- of others' comments is very controversial and generally reserved for clear-cut, seriously offensive attacks. It's difficult for me to see how "You failed in your attempt to delete this article, but now you are attempting to delete it in a piecmeal fasion by narrowing the scope of the article" is a personal attack at all, let alone something so uncivil that it needs to be expurgated. It was mildly impolite for Abu Ali to question your motives, but probably worse for you to censor him. The edit war ongoing at that page is likely to get worse if actions such as these are taken by either side. Eleland 02:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to defend that attack's inclusion on AN/I or wherever you please. Tewfik^Talk 01:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

It is not a question of "defending" what that user said. I have no view about what they say. However you can't just edit out other people's comments on article talk pages, especially when they are not definitively in breach of any policy or guidelines. Anyway if you really believe that the comments are so offensive, aren't your interests better served by leaving them in so everyone can see what you have to put up with? --Nickhh 07:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on how WP:3RR works, but it looks to me as if you've just breached it. And you've done this despite having posted a question on the admin board about whether you are doing the right thing in the first place, and not yet having received a definitive answer --Nickhh 18:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

GA for Ashdod

I glad to inform you that Ashdod article passed GA nomination. It was my main task on Wiki. Thank you a lot for your contribution.Shmuliko 05:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Monte Ne

Hello, I have finally had time to return to the Monte Ne article and addressed all of your concerns. I have relisted it on GA. Would you mind looking over it once more? --The_stuart 20:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Cermonial counties

Wow! That's cunning! How does one remove the Sandbox Cheshire from the live category though? Johnbod 08:55, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

• There is or was a user sandbox page in the category, because they are using the template. I couldn't see how to delink it, but it's not important. Johnbod 16:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Jenin

Tewfik, I'm giving up on this edit war now, as I don't have a hope of changing the endemic lack of neutrality in one of the Mid East related articles, let alone all of them. However I should just say that your latest edit to this article has left the disputed section really badly written, and not making much sense. And, as for your suggestion of OR, I very carefully avoided asserting that Israeli reports directly contributed to the massacre claims, by my use of the word "subsequently". That wording enables readers to see a broad overview of what happened at the time, including what both sides were initially saying to the media, and then infer whatever causality they wish to. That is what a truly neutral encyclopedia should do --Nickhh 18:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirecting into the middle of an article doesn't work

You wrote In my mind the ideal would be a redirect to Israeli West Bank barrier#"Apartheid" opinions, but that would be pointless.

Unfortunately, you can't redirect into the middle of an article. It's a known MediaWiki bug. There's some syntactical problem with URLs that prevents this from being easily implemented.

I've wanted that fixed to help deal with fancruft. There's a tendency to have one article for each story/character/album associated with a given show/comic/musician, even when there really isn't enough information about the individual item to justify an article. This got out of hand in the Star Wars Comics area, where an editor was creating a separate article for each minor character in each story in each Star Wars comic book. In the fancruft area, it's a notability issue; the level of detail that interests some fans falls below the notability threshold for full Wikipedia articles. --John Nagle 19:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On July 26, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Motza, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done Tewfik and goood to see you around. You have earned yourself the pictured slot. Happy editing, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Map

FYI, I have created 2 new maps, one of which you requested. You can see it at Israeli West Bank barrier. The other one is a population density map of Israel, which I thought was lacking, it can be seen at Districts of Israel. Please expand these maps to more articles because there are quite a few additional ones which could use them, I'm just not sure which at the moment. Thanks, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 09:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Jenin

In response to your message of few days ago - yeah the language was tidied up to make more sense, but I think your version is POV the other way, in that the "yet" suggests that Palestinian claims were solely responsible for all the high casualty estimates; and that initial high Israeli figures, and the closing of the camp, should somehow have dampened down any claims of a "massacre". As I've said, I was very careful to use the word subsequently, not consequently, in my version when listing all these things, in order to avoid making any definitive assertions about causality; by contrast your version excludes the possibility that Israeli actions and statements may have fuelled the furore. Anyway this debate is a little old now, and as I've said elsewhere it's one of the smaller issues around Jenin at the end of the day, but I just thought I'd do the courtesy of a response. --Nickhh 15:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party is now active, and your input is requested. Further information is available at the Mediation location, Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Kind regards, Anthøny 16:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:Area

I have a document from the CBS on my computer (can't remember the URL) which gives the approximate area (rounded to one decimal spot, in km2). I have not been able to find the exact area anywhere on CBS. The fact that many of its pages are broken doesn't help. Maybe we should contact the guy who made the bot on HeWiki and ask how he did it. It's supposed to say here but I've clicked on all the links and didn't come out any more knowledgeable. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 05:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

motza

I saw you added Motza as a neighborhood of Jerusalem - are you sure about that? I believe they are not under the jurisdiction of the Jerusalem municipality, but I would check that--Gilabrand 10:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

Update

bah, I always forget about you. :P I'll try to talk to some people. Yonatan ^talk 08:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe time

Sure, why not. What gets people upset is submission over and over right on the heels of a prior discussion; nothting will have changed in such a short period, but now heads may have cooled and a more logical discussion had. Carlossuarez46 17:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

• se hace. From your user page: 6 DYK's; I've only done 3, two in my Wikiproject Sicily stuff, I had better get writing! Carlossuarez46 18:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

• Two topics: on the maybe time one, I've done it. I noticed on your user page that you have done 6 Did you know articles, my score is only 3, so I have to catch up! :-) Carlossuarez46 19:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Khalidi

The thesis of Khalidi's 1997 history book, Palestinian Identity, is that the Palestinian identity or nationalism or whatever one wishes to call it was developed roughly at the time the Ottoman empire fell. I happen to disagree with how Khalidi emphasizes certain events and documents that took place before 1948 to fit his argument, but the facts and documents he cites are all sound and verifiable. There is a part of the book that discusses the alleged ancient history of a Palestinian people, but Khalidi says clearly that Fatah and other Palestinian organizations have largely invented and exaggerated this "ancient" connection to the Land of Israel in the 1960s. I cited the page number and its all there in black and white. Khalidi stops short at using the word "propoganda," but his meaning is the same and I can't think of a more neutral word for what he describes. --GHcool 21:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Palestinian people

I posted a comment on WP:ANI regarding our impasse. Thought you might want to know. Tiamat 19:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Happy Tewfik's Day!

Tewfik has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Tewfik's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Tewfik! Love, Phaedriel 01:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

Than you, dear Tewfik, for being the excellent person you are, and may this very humble gift serve as a token of my own gratitude to you for the beautiful, warm wishes you dedicated me :) And btw, I haven't forgotten about your request for help at your userpage! For reasons you know too well, I've been really short of time lately... but witha little luck, that'll change real real soon, and I'll unleash the fairy over it :) Have a joyous Day, my friend! Love, Phaedriel - 20:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Congrats on having your own day! I'm jealous. Anyway, I made suggestions for Talk:Second_Intifada#Casualties. Ciao. HG | Talk 04:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply on Talk:Second_Intifada#Casualties. I didn't know what you meant exactly and I'd like to clear it up here, rather than Talk, because maybe the regulars got it. (1) You said (my italics) "we are not under any obligation to reproduce all of their [B'Tselem] data, much less to select only some of it". If we don't use all of it, then we'd be selecting some of it, right? So what did you mean by "much less"? Did you mean to say "it's up to us to carefully select from it"? (2) Which "new edit" were you referring to here (my italics): "The civilian numbers that are being introduced in this new edit"? Did you mean my recent edit on the page, my proposed 4 steps, or some other recent edit(s)? (3) Also, I gather from your words that you all have been discussing the difference(s) between "civilian" and "non-combatant" numbers. (The civilian numbers ... skew the picture when it is substituted for actual data on non/combatants.) What is the difference betw the two? Thanks for your help and your patience. HG | Talk 10:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note to my Talk. I put up a follow-up question at Talk:Second_Intifada#Casualties_(II). Thanks. HG | Talk 22:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Caterpillar deletion

You removed well cited and clearly relevant information from Capterpillar, Inc. The rationale you offered (already discussed elsewhere) was manifestly inadequate. Obviously, Wikipedia articles often include information which is discussed in other articles. It's reasonable to expect that virtually all information on Wikipedia is discussed in more than one place. Thus, it is difficult for me to believe that this edit was made in good faith. If you are attempting to censor relevant and documented information simply because it doesn't flatter your personal biases, I must warn you to stop now. Eleland 18:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Chinese apartheid AfD

Following your recent participation in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 July 30#Allegations of American apartheid, you may be interested to know that a related article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, is currently being discussed on AfD. Comments can be left at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 15:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I will when I get around to it, sometime this week.

Thanks for your message. Carlossuarez46 18:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Islam and antisemitism

There is no reason to revert an edit solely because it has been made from an IP address. --Raphael1 10:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Sock Puppetry

Were you suggesting that I am sock puppeteering? Really, this is my only account - I just started with Wikipedia. --Wastekid 19:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Islam and antisemitism

Why do you say that the content I was/am inserting violates WP:SYNTH?[1] Please do explain, as I sincerely want someone to back up that claim. I worked hard on researching this, and made sure that all the content was directly relevent to the topic of the article.Bless sins 02:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

You said: "Judaism in Muslim theology and beliefs", which is constructed of quotes not connected directly to antisemitism." Let me point out, with alld ue respect, that this claim could not be farther from the truth. I took great care to ensure that all my sources WERE IN RELATION TO ANTISEMITISM. I am tired of repeating this again and again on the talk page to various users. Plese let me know any sources not directly related to antisemitism, I'll be more than happy to review them.Bless sins 22:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Battle of Jenin

Hey... I tried to fix the "The Battle" section where some subsections weren't displaying properly. (But I did it clunkily.) Would you take a look at the article and see why they were there, but not displaying, at your last edit? I can't find why the "Change in Israeli Tactics" and "Aftermath" sections were vanished. Kyaa the Catlord 07:35, 9 August 2007 (UTC) I think we figured it out. Eventually. Silly problem really. Kyaa the Catlord 18:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Category:Religious Israeli settlements

Why on earth have you removed them all from this category? It was discussed, and no-one offered any concrete objections, even after I said I'd done it. Plus someone else (Shuki I think) has gone through and removed all the Israeli settlement categories from them, so now they are not categorised as settlements at all! I am putting them back in the Religious settlements category, so please don't revert this again until it has been discussed again on the WikiProject Israel talk page. Thanks, Number 57 09:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually if you read the comments, the majority (5-3) was for the creation of the Religious Settlements category; it was supported by myself, Shuki, Palmiro, Ynhockey and LordAmeth. You, Beit Or and DLand are the only ones who objected. And how on earth am I framing you for POV? Number 57 12:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

i havn't read the text here (being lazy) but i've left a comment here. perhaps i should go over the discussion you're mentioning... i'll do it tomorrow if i can find some time. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 17:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the welcome, Tewfik. Sakura rin24 12:51, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome!Jshalvi 21:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

GAC backlog contest

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		Thank you for your participation in the GAC backlog elimination drive! ¿SFGiДnts! ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 20:45, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

"Solicited Vote"

Please do not lie by suggesting that my recent contributions to Palestinian Territories related debates was solicited. Your comments imply that I commented or voted (actually, it's not a vote, you seem to have missed this very basic point about CfD debates) to comply with the wishes of another user. I did not, and it is untrue to suggest that I did. A user informed me of a debate he thought I might be interested in - this is what is known as "good manners". I read the debate, and contributed according to my lights. Ultimately of course, your persistent misrepresentation of others' actions and positions serves only to undermine the contributions you make across Wikipedia. DuncanHill 10:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Requesting feedback regarding edits made on the Incense Route article

Hi, I came across the Incense Route article and noticed that though generally correct this version was lacking footnotes or citations. I've made a few major edits to the article and was hoping for some feedback and suggestions. Kindly take a look into it and tell me what you think about the edits. Best Wishes, Havelock the Dane 09:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Map

Regarding the East Jerusalem map, you might want to look at Image:EastJerusalemMap.svg, it's an SVG version which you can edit with Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw. You do not need to really know how to use these programs to make small changes. I can do it, but I didn't catch the exact error. Can you please tell me again? Also, what sourcing? I must've forgotten something I promised to do, sorry about that. I probably won't have time next month (sergeants' course), but if it's not difficult I will definitely try to help on the weekends. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Burgas00 RFCU

I'll take a look at that some time today. I'll need to read up on the RFCU process first, and have a few other off-wiki matters that I need to attend to. I seem to remember looking after the last request was delisted, and thought that the wrong code had been used. I'll let you know here when I'm done. Mark Chovain 20:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just spent some time looking into the various options that are available. I suspect that an RFCU request will be rejected on the grounds that it generally shouldn't be used to reveal IP data. Exceptions are made in more serious edit wars, where a user uses multiple IP's to avoid a 3RR violation, but I don't think that will apply here, especially given the time that has elapsed.

Another option, which I suspect would have been the right way to go from the start, would be to create an SSP page for Burgas00. This would likely have reached the same conclusion we reached on the G-Dett page, and the block either extended, or referred to RFCU. Unfortunately, it's been almost 2 weeks now, and SSP doesn't generally accept requests which have "staled" by more than a week.

It's worth keeping in mind that the purpose of blocks is preventative, not punative. Looking through Burgas00's recent contribs, he has not taken part in any edit waring since his block expired (note that he self-reverted his only revert). At this point, a block will serve no preventative purpose.

I think the best way forward here is to make Burgas00 aware that suspicions were raised, and that if those suspicions were correct, it was a gross error of judgement on his part. I'd be more than happy to write a message on his talk page for you as someone who is not involved in the articles in question (I have somewhat famously been involved in discussing editors in this part of the wiki, but that may make me a better person to write the message).

For the record, I don't entirely agree with Wikipedia's preventative/punative position - I think in some cases, punishment could be used to prevent others from breaking the rules. By not punishing someone who has gamed the system, we encourage others to do the same. But that's the framework within which we live.

If you disagree with my thoughts on RFCU or SSP, I'd be happy to discuss those options further. If you'd like me to write a message for Burgas00, let me know: I'll have it done within half a day of your request. Regardless, if you suspect he does something similar again, let me know (by email is probably best) and I'll make sure we get the SSP process off the right way this time. Mark Chovain 22:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Antwort

Be that as it may, an article needs four support votes to pass, and it had none, other than your automatic support. There were three opposes, the list had been a candidate for 12 days and you had not made an edit to the article in 2 days. The FL criteria clearly say "Featured list candidates will remain on this page for a minimum period of 10 days. Consensus must be reached in order to be promoted to featured list status, and a list must also garner a minimum of 4 "Support" votes (counting the original nomination as a "Support" vote, provided it is not withdrawn). Featured list candidates that are not promoted after 10 days will be removed from the candidates list to the failed log unless (1) objections are being actively addressed; or (2) although there are no objections, the list has not garnered 4 "Support" votes. In these cases an additional period of time will be given to the list to see whether it can attract more support." and I did not feel that any of those conditions were met. So, I will not reopen it at this time. I suggest talking to those who opposed and then renominating it. The only renomination condition is that all prior concerns be met, so you can do it whenever you feel like. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Talk to User:Circeus. If he thinks it should be reopened, then I will reopen it.

But, it was heading towards a fail anyway, and you do not need an active FLC to discuss changes with a user. I really do think the best thing would be to continue your discussion with the user THEN renominate the page. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 22:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Stalking?

Response User_talk:Eleland 18:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

need help after long time

need your help.User talk:Yousaf465 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yousaf465 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Lock on Yasser Arafat article

Greetings Tewfik, I have a question for you dealing with the constant acts of vandalism towards the Yasser Arafat article, which you can view by looking at the article's history. I need to know how to place a lock on the article to prevent these actions and I ask you before anybody else because I know you are one of the most experienced. --Al Ameer son 16:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Kurdi Bear interview - do you dispute it?

You said this about the Kurdi Bear interview - "If this was as groundbreaking as some make it out to be, then it would be subject to multiple, nontrivial mentions in the press. All we have is selections from an interview mirrored on dozens of partisan websites. Moreover, it does not say what some editors here say it does, and its text was distorted in its various inclusions. The primary method of ensuring that such primary sourcing says or doesn't say something would be to use RS press sources, which again, do not exist." Tewfik^Talk 18:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

This despite the fact you'd already posted: "The dispute with that report has focused somewhat on the less-than-perfect translation, but mostly on the quoting selectively in such a manner as to distort what was actually said". Tewfik^Talk 08:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you now deny what "Kurdi Bear" claimed and that it was published "in Yediot Aharonot, Israel's most widely circulated tabloid paper, on May 31, 2002." according to this link (and an equivalent Hebrew link)? PalestineRemembered 21:42, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

War-crimes alleged against Palestinians in Jenin?

You said this at the Battle of Jenin "The allegations of war crimes were levelled against both sides. TewfikTalk 18:58, 12 August 2007 (UTC)". Are you sure about that? Palestinians were criticised for hiding amongst civilians, but in all the dozens of pages of really serious allegations, I don't recall them ever being accused of war-crimes. Where did you see this said? 14:37, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Re:Incense Road

Thank you for the reply and the kind note.

The Incense Road is currently under GA review and I removed this section as I couldn't verify it. The "Incense Route in Sacred Literature" could have been the highlight of the article if in-line citations from the Quran could have been procured.

It would be of immense help if you could verify where the Incense Road is mentioned in the Quran [the article mentioned Surat Saba (34) and in Surat an-Naml (27)] and what does the quote from the holy book say. I can try and get a source on the Old Testament mentioning the "Gold and Incense route."

With Regards,
Havelock the Dane 01:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of Category:Esperantists up for review

The deletion is up for review. In case you'd like to chime in, go here. --Orange Mike 18:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

editing conflict

it seems to me like an honest editing conflict mistake which resulted this mishap. i've noticed my edit had an error also and there seems to be a new anon. editor already changing the article, so there is no point in asking you to fix the issue as i planned on doing. *shrug* Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 23:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

TfD closure

I will gladly relist the template. Although the average template receives little attention before closure, there was opposition by a Wikiproject (which probably has most knowledge on the subject and thus can provide the most informed input) to this particular nomination. Singularity 19:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ping for Talk:Jerusalem#Category:Cities_in_the_West_Bank_(take_2)

I have responded to your edit. Robert Ham 09:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

preffered version

considering this comment of yours, you should really give a comment at the related talk. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 12:33, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Re:Yasser Arafat

No problem, I can tell you are quite a busy editor :). Well, I have already placed the semi-protected lock on the Yasser Arafat article, so thats no longer a dilemma. However I would still very much appreciate a review by you and consequently, your opinions on the overall quality of the article (text, references, etc.) and for you to point out anything that needs work on, so that the article may achieve FA status. --Al Ameer son 20:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to mention to add your thoughts and conclusions to the Arafat Peer Review discussion page - Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Yasser Arafat --Al Ameer son 22:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Number 57

Please see the above RfA, and perhaps tell some friends. I am concerned that the members of WP:ISRAEL are not being adequately represented there. Also, I have been trying to get in touch with you IRL - drop me a line if you can. Thanks, DLand^TALK 17:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)