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October 4

Fan produced toys

I have a question. Another editor and I are having a heated conversation regarding things like notability regarding Transformers toys produced by unrelated companies founded and run by fans. I stated that such fan companies were not worth an honorable mention as they are basically bootlegs produced to cash in on the franchise. The apposing editor claims that they can be worth an entire article if reliable sources can be found. Yet I don't see how something that isn't even worth bringing up in a wiki/wikia is worth creating an article over, let alone a section or honorable mention. So who's right here? Sarujo (talk) 00:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The other editor is right in that if they can find enough reliable sources, then they are eligible for an article per WP:GNG and the companies that produce them may be notable per WP:CORP. Their legality isn't up to us. See, for instance, Pink Floyd bootleg recordings for an example. And finally, this question, since it deals with WP policy, would fit better at the Help Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 00:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

You better be absolutely sure the information is notable and widely known. Wikipedia isn't in the business of assisting in crime. Dmcq (talk) 13:23, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Polo Players

Added a heading Rojomoke (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
why are polo players only right handed? 98.25.123.208 (talk) 00:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Because if a right-handed player and a left-handed player were galloping to whack the ball from opposite directions, their horses would collide head on? Deor (talk) 01:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Same applies in field hockey. Don't know enough about ice hockey to comment on that. HiLo48 (talk) 05:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Not in ice hockey. Dismas|^(talk) 05:25, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

It's a rule that the mallet must be held in the right hand.[1] A blacklisted site claims the rule was instituted in 1975 for "safety reasons" and that "3 players on the world circuit are left handed". Clarityfiend (talk) 02:05, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Hardest possible save

Today the San Francisco Giants won the National League West (woo hoo!), with Brian Wilson getting the save. It wasn't a very hard save; he came in with a three-run lead. If it hadn't been for a great defensive play in the bottom of the 8th, he wouldn't have been eligible for a save at all.

And it got me to thinking—what's the hardest possible save? I think if you come in in the fifth inning or earlier, you can't get a save; it would have to be a win. So the hardest possibility would seem to be if you come in with zero outs in the sixth inning, with a one-run lead and the bases loaded. Has anyone ever finished out a save in that situation? If not, who's gotten closest? --Trovatore (talk) 04:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

A pitcher can get credit for a save coming into any inning, as long as he comes in with a lead and is not the pitcher of record. Joaquin Benoit got credit for a seven-inning save on September 3, 2002 - the longest in Major League history - when the Rangers' starting pitcher Aaron Myette was ejected one batter into the game, reliever Todd Van Poppel threw two scoreless innings during which the Rangers took the lead, and Benoit pitched the rest of the way with Texas never surrendering the lead. Van Poppel got the win in this case; he did not have to pitch five innings since he was a reliever, not the starter. That said, hardest save is a matter of judgment. The hardest would be for a pitcher to come in with a one-run lead, the bases loaded, and nobody out; the difficulty quotient becomes higher according to how early he is inserted into the game. I have no idea who has pitched the longest and earned a save after coming in in such a jam. --Xuxl (talk) 15:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, there are basically two ways to get a save:

1) Come in at any point with a lead of 3-or-less runs and be the last pitcher of the game

2) Come in with any lead and pitch at least 3 innings, and be the last pitcher of the game

Most people know about the first one, but the second throws people for a loop. There have been times when someone picks up a save without even realizing it, for example I saw an interview with a long-time starter who had a single save in his career. It was his first day back from the Disabled List, and his team was up by like 9 runs in the 6th, so his manager put him in as a reliever, just to give him some low-pressure throws in a game situation. He finished out the game, and it wasn't until he saw the box score in the next days paper that he realized he had a save. As far as answering the question, difficulty is of course subjective, but hypothetically, the hardest possible save would be to come in with a one-run lead in the bottom of the first with no outs, as the visiting team, and be the third pitcher of the game, pitch all nine innings and get a save. Technically, according to the rules, the starter is not the pitcher of record unless he pitches 5 complete innings, if he does not by rule the second pitcher is automatically the pitcher of record. So, it is then possible to come in as the third pitcher in the first inning, with no outs, and pitch the rest of the game, and earn a "save". --Jayron32 15:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The second pitcher would need to record at least one out to be eligible for the win. Also, according to the rules, the official scorer has the discretion of not awarding the win to the second pitcher if, in his opinion, his presence was brief and/or ineffective (which would surely be the case if he exited after only one out in the 1st inning and the bases loaded); in this case, another pitcher is given credit for the win, i.e. the one who pitched effectively for the last 8 2/3 innings. So the second pitcher has to make a tangible positive contribution to the win, which is generally seen as either closing out an inning while maintaining the lead, or pitching one full inning. In Van Poppel's case, he pitched two full hitless and scoreless innings while coming into the game unprepared, which was considered good enough; a shorter or less effective stint would most likely have led to the official scorer granting the win to Benoit. In the official rules, the win is still considered the most important statistic, with the save being ancillary. All that to say is that it's very unlikely we'll ever see a save of more than 7 innings ! --Xuxl (talk) 16:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you still end up with a save if a game goes into extra innings? Googlemeister (talk) 18:20, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but unless I'm missing something (as I evidently did above when I missed the third-pitcher thing), you can only pitch for one inning at most in that case. You'd have to be on the home team, your team takes the lead in the top of the 13th (or whatever) at a time when you have not been put into the lineup, then you take over in the bottom of the inning and close out the game. --Trovatore (talk) 18:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Subversion name meaning

Good time of day. I need native speaker's view of Apache Subversion name meaning. The question itself is on the Subversion talk page (briefly: what is primary "version" or "subvert"). Thank you. --Grain (talk) 06:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC) (as 81.200.20.203)

As a native speaker, seeing the word "subversion" without context, I would normally read it as related to "subvert". Only if there was a specific context like "versions and subversions" would I read it as sub-version. --Anonymous, 06:50 UTC, October 4, 2010.

Yes, but once you know that Subversion is a versioning system, that changes things. --Trovatore (talk) 07:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

• Sure, but that's an example of sufficient context. I took the question to be asking about the word itself. --Anon, 16:06 UTC, October 4, 2010.

I suppose this is not the place to bemoan the modern trend to omit the hyphen in sub-version. Dbfirs 08:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Is that a real word? I thought it was just marketing, a way to make the most prosaic of tools, a revision control system, seem cool and edgy. You know, like GitHub for lesbians. --Trovatore (talk) 09:16, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean the original word, or the version control system name? I didn't realise there was ever a hyphen in either. The word comes from Latin (subvertere), via French. The product name I don't recall ever being hyphenated. As far back as 2003 the SVN mailing lists were calling it "Subversion". TFOWR 13:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not intimately familiar with versioning system software but the basic idea is that you use it to keep track of "versions," or specific snapshots of a project's code at a given point in time. Now the name "Subversion" no doubt refers to this but is almost probably a form of double entendre: "subversion" also means efforts to overthrow a political system. So it's a nice mix of technical terminology with "revolutionary" overtones, which makes a little bit more "sexy" something that would otherwise be deadly dull. This is my speculation, anyway, I don't have any real direct knowledge of why they chose the name, but it seems very unlikely to me that this double-meaning wasn't intentional, as it is very clear to a native English speaker. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh. It's curious, but current editor of ru:Subversion forces an opposite opinion - he is sure, that "subver[t]-sion" - the only meaning of Subversion :). Dictionary has no sub-version article, so (he think) there is no such word. I'm trying to convince him that Subversion, is primarilly "version", then "subvert" ... but it's vainly :). 81.200.20.203 (talk) 21:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there is no such word as sub-version, or at least it is not a common word. Versions in-between major versions are minor versions, not sub-versions. So the only common meaning is in fact the political one. (Hence my response to Dbfirs, above).

Nevertheless, it is clearly a play on words, involving "versions". --Trovatore (talk) 09:56, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, thank you for valuable note. 81.200.20.203 (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Mr 98. Its almost certainly supposed to be a pun. It literally refers to versions (Look how they've colored their logo.), but you're supposed to catch that it's also an english word and be amused.

The pun may have been more relevant when CVS was the de facto industry standard, and the Subversion project was specifically intended to replace it. APL (talk) 17:01, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh. This is relevant. A discussion on "Subversion"'s pronunciation. APL (talk) 17:04, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

This is just a mockery. Unless you can hear the difference, I don't. 81.200.20.203 (talk) 21:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

It is a parody of a famous audio clip of Linus Torvalds, but it also shows the intended pronunciation. Pretty much they say it like the normal english word "subversion" and not "Sub-Version".

Still in this context, I always mentally emphasize the "version". APL (talk) 15:25, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see :) 81.200.20.203 (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Mr.98 and APL give a good indication of how the name `subversion' feels to a native speaker in the target market. Now it is known as `Apache subversion'. I suspect that most of the user-base knew the name before, and also knew of the extant Apache products, so `Apache subversion' does NOT especially bring up the idea of subversive indigenous people :) -- SemanticMantis (talk) 19:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I would agree that to someone who knows it, they would not associate Apache with the native group in this context. After awhile it just becomes another company name. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I would dispute that it is known as Apache Subversion. The Apache foundation may be trying to bring that about, since they brought Subversion into their project; but I hve never yet heard anybody refer to it as such. --ColinFine (talk) 22:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. People just call it "Subversion" or "SVN". APL (talk) 15:18, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Cog shaped thing near Eiffel Tower

My desktop background is a birds-eye shot of the area surrounding base of the Eiffel Tower taken from the second level. I really like the picture but it is ruined somewhat by a strange cog-like shape somewhat near the base of the Western tower foot. It looks so fake and out-of-place that for a while I assumed it was a mouse pointer icon I'd somehow accidentally overlayed to the image while editing it. However, inspection of Google Maps shows the same shape in the same place, again looking quite luminous and incongruous (see here). I was basically wondering if anyone knew what it was. I can't find any information and it looks a bit like a statue or a well or something (though apparently not very tall) --82.2.9.21 (talk) 12:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe a castellated air shaft or a French folly. I would judge it to be a lot taller then you.--Aspro (talk) 12:47, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

You can see it in the bottom right hand corner of this picture. Air shaft seems likely. DuncanHill (talk) 12:52, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Possibly a pissoir? 87.82.229.195 (talk) 12:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Martin Alders has taken a good photo of it. Chimney and Eifeltower(sic). Might even be a water tower.--Aspro (talk) 13:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The RER C line runs (roughly) under that area. It may very well be a ventilation chimney for that. One occasionally sees odd brick chimneys in parts of London, which serve to ventilate the underground. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 16:06, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I orgininaly wondered that but then looking at the map it would then suggest that RER C goes almost under the north west foundations Eiffel's tower. When the metro was built, they did not cut things that close. What we need is a Parisian to take some up close photos.--Aspro (talk) 21:50, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

This website claims that it is the chimney of an engine room built under part of the tower. Warofdreams talk 22:15, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Nice find. Thanks everyone! --82.2.9.21 (talk) 23:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

For those who don't read French, the engine room powered the elevators before widespread electrification. Does anybody know whether the underground space has been preserved as well? Paris has a lot of abandoned underground spaces, mostly relics of quarries. Acroterion _(talk) 12:15, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

As for the RER line, I'm pretty sure it runs under the elongated white concrete structure that runs between the Quai Branly and the river, about 100 feet from the river. If you follow it southwest for about 2,000 feet, you can see the tracks running into it. --Anonymous, 08:35 UTC, October 5, 2010.

October 5

Semaphore to English translator

Anyone know of a Semaphore to English translator? I have an image of dancing men (A bit like the ones in the Swallows and Amazons books) and I'd like to read the message. I'll probably just translate it a letter at a time manually in the end though. -- SGBailey (talk) 16:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia article Flag semaphore mentions the Swallows and Amazons books and shows a character table. It seems that a video-based decoder has been planned or built but I have no experience of them to offer. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Turns out the dancing men aren't semaphore - I'll have to attempt to decrypt it instead. But thanks. -- SGBailey (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Could they be the Sherlock Holmes dancing men?Hotclaws (talk) 13:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Help with correcting to the appropriate external link

Hello,

My name is listed as "notable people" of Springfield, Mass on the Springfield, MA webpage. But the link sends the reader to a website of the wrong David W. Evans. I would like to correct this. The "real" David Evans does not have a Wikipedia link, but one external to it.

Thank —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dwevans44 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Most of the other links at Springfield, Massachusetts seem to be to Wikipedia articles. However, there is some evidence of Professor Evans's notability here, and the C.V. on his website implies likely further notability once Oxford University Press publishes his forthcoming book, Children’s rituals, habits and routines. Does anyone want to create a stub and fix the link? John M Baker (talk) 18:08, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I have delinked Professor Evans and re-inserted him unlinked. I have edited the details of the former US representative. There is now no ambiguity but John's suggestion will open the chance for a blue link. Richard Avery (talk) 18:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

That's good, but I don't think the former U.S. representative is a Springfield resident, so I've removed him from the list. John M Baker (talk) 18:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

British aircraft

Do aircraft pilots in the UK sit in the right, or left seat when there is side by side seating in the cockpit? Googlemeister (talk) 19:41, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that seating on British planes, or planes in Britain, is no different than seating on other planes. (Think about it for a second. The UK is a small country, so many flights leaving the UK will end up in other countries. How feasible would it be for pilots to shift their seating every time they left the UK? Conversely, many flights arriving in the UK will be coming from other countries. How feasible would it be for their pilots to get up and change seats as they approach British air space?) British airlines use the same kinds of planes as other airlines, and there is not the same issue at airports as you find on roads in the UK, where people drive on the left, unlike other European countries (except for Ireland), where they drive on the right. At airports, you basically have a small network of one-way thoroughfares: A given runway will be in use by only one plane at a time, and planes will be taking off and landing in the same direction (more or less into the wind). Likewise, taxiways tend to have one-way traffic. So there is no need for planes to keep to the right or left when passing oncoming traffic, since ground control sees to it that there is no oncoming traffic. (If there were, both planes would have to brake and one would have to back up to avoid a collision, since taxiways and runways are not made wide enough to allow two full-sized planes to fit side-by-side.) Marco polo (talk) 19:52, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Where was the answer in that? 92.28.240.84 (talk) 22:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Quick Google searches confirm that pilots of fixed-wing aircraft tend to sit on the left side of the cockpit, whereas pilots of rotary-wing aircraft tend to sit on the right side of the aircraft (with a co-pilot assumed opposite in each case). National origin doesn't appear to affect this. The possible reasons for left- or right-seat preference appear apocryphal at best. — Lomn 19:54, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Since most people are right-handed, wouldn't it make sense for pilots to sit in the left seat so they could adjust the throttle with their right hand? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Only if you assume that British cars have the gear shifter located next to the driver's door.

It's worth noting that on commercial aircraft, the co-pilot tends to fly the thing, and the captain supervises. This arrangement arises out of a crash report (I forget which one) of a case in which the pilot flew his plane into the ground, and the co-pilot was thought to have been too timid to tell the captain that he was cocking things up. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:55, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Not true. The Captain and First Officer typically alternate legs; one flies the first leg, and the other the second, etc. The non-flying pilot handles non-flying duties such as communicating with air traffic control. anonymous6494 15:14, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Throttles where always on the left. Well in Europe they were.--Aspro (talk) 23:24, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Heavy bombers such as the Wellington first had the throttle and pitch situated on starboard so that the flight engineer could control the power plants, leaving the pilot to concentrate on getting the kite to separate away from and off terra firma. By the time whirlybirds arrived, the throttle and 'collective' were combined in one dual control on the port side. --Aspro (talk) 23:52, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Apparently, in pre-WWII French aircraft, the throttles opened by pulling back and closed by pushing forwards (ie the other way to everyone else). My source for this is the | Mouchette Diaries. Alansplodge (talk) 09:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

That's right. Also, during the WW2 Britain managed to get some American built Hawks which were originally destined for France. So they had them converted for their own use, as briefly touched upon in the Curtiss P-36 Hawk article. --Aspro (talk) 16:24, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

When I flew shotgun in this Cessna down to here in Tasmania, Australia the pilot sat on the right, I sat on the left (correction - see below). The Brits have the driver seat on the right in cars like we do, so could follow the same pattern. Now not saying this is the usual arrangement, but it didn't strike me as unusual, but also worth noting there were also active controls in front of me. Of course arrangements in small planes could also be different than in large aircraft. --jjron (talk) 15:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps Australia is a better example since they have right hand drive cars and are more likely for their flights to remain in country. Googlemeister (talk) 16:14, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

My bad, I was on the right, the pilot was on the left - shows how you can't rely on your memory. I firmly remember sitting on the left, but it must be an altered memory coming out of decades of having the passenger sitting on the left in the car. This photograph taken in-flight clearly shows I was sitting on the right, and other photos taken out the window confirm this. So there you go... --jjron (talk) 22:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The traditional seating arrangement in civil (and military) aviation is in this article: First Officer (civil aviation). I can throw some light on the reason for this tradition. The prop rotation (from the pilot's position) has nearly always been clockwise. The reaction from the torque therefore, tends to want to roll the aircraft to the left (lower the left wing). On top of that, there is more thrust developed on the right hand side of the prop (asymmetric loading). This leads to the aircraft to wanting to yaw, also to the left. Therefore, if one was merrily flying along in a single engine aircraft, in less than good viability, when suddenly, right ahead, a ruddy great barrage balloon appears out of the haze, it is much easier to perform an emergence turn by banking to the left. Also, one has the very important benefit of better left-hand viability to watch out for other aircraft in your proximity (an important point if flying in formation). If on the other-hand, one was to force the aircraft to go against the reaction of the prop, the aircraft will start to fight back according to how fast you are going and how hard you turn. At speed this could put you at greater risk of collision with nearby aircraft. The brighter of you will have also realized by now, that if all other pilots know what avoiding action all other pilots will take, and one should suddenly see an aircraft coming straight at them, they can take avoiding action by banking left, knowing that should the other pilot take avoiding action as well, they shan't bank to the right and thus straight into them. Some modern single engined aircraft have their engines slightly angled to reduce the effects of asymmetric loading but the effect should still be noticeable. However, in normal flight one should always keep the aircraft away from getting into any situation that would require such a drastic manoeuvre.--Aspro (talk) 18:38, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Strange phone numbers

Had a couple of strange phone numbers trying to call me, they didn't leave any message when I let the answerphone take it. One was 001017, the other was +1028. Am on Virgin Mobile. Anyone know who is behind these numbers? Thanks. 188.28.128.146 (talk) 20:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll check the dial plan in a second, but in the mean time don't call back. There are some scammers who call, don't leave a message, and when you return you're calling some premium service. Unfortunately, particularly for mobiles, the UK call dial plan (what number prefixes mean what) is rather complex. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 21:00, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

To the Original Poster: there are some clues in your message that you are in the UK, but it would be helpful if you said so: this is an international medium. --ColinFine (talk) 23:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, yes I'm in the UK. 92.40.194.220 (talk) 23:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I can't make sense of the number. Superficially it appears like a fragment of a dial-internationally-to-the-US number, but the US part is incomplete. It's the wrong format for a UK short code. All I can find is a few other people complaining either of hang-up calls from it, or of getting nonsensical call-centre calls from it. I still think it's unlikely to be anything good. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 12:32, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Furthermore, the number that appears to be from the US or Canada has a format that could not occur in the United States or Canada. (The "area codes" that would follow "001" cannot begin with "0".) My guess would be that the caller has found a way to mask the number from which the call originates, or how that number displays. Marco polo (talk) 14:27, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

"+" is a synonym for the local "international dialling prefix", in the UK, "+" is "00", so your two numbers are very similar: 001017 and 001028. The 001 will get you to North America, what happens then... -- SGBailey (talk) 19:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Similar phone calls have been reported in other cases: http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/001017, http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/1028

Caller-Id can be spoofed using Voice over IP (VoIP) programs and Networks: http://www.securityfocus.com/news/9061 A caller can make their phone calls appear to come from any number, or unmask the number of a masked incoming call. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zobelleboz (talk • contribs) 21:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I suspect the calls were from call-centers whose phone switch equipment is misconfigured to send the caller's internal extension number as the outgoing caller ID. (Perhaps the 00 or + was added by your phone or somewhere else along the line.) If this is the case, then it's unlikely to tell who was calling from the number alone. --Bavi H (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:08, 7 October 2010 (UTC).

APA

I need to do APA citations but EasyBib only does MLA for free. What's a good free APA citation generator? --70.245.189.11 (talk) 21:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

• A Google Search turns up BibMe as the first result. 76.120.174.82 (talk) 23:03, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Microsoft Word can do it for you automatically, if you're using that. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

This is a very low-tech approach, but as someone who does citations daily, I found it was easier to just memorize how to cite the one or two major sources you will be using (e.g. journal articles and books), and not rely on software to try and approximate it (which it often does badly anyway). Just a suggestion. Usually once you do a few of them with some attention to getting them right, you can just "pattern match" in your head and fill out the rest pretty quickly. It is not rocket science, and memorizing it once is, I think, faster in the long-run than all of the copying and pasting you'll be doing otherwise. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

October 6

Writing stories with video game characters

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Since childhood, I dreamed up fantasies, uniting the characters (well, mostly enemies) in video games/ movies into one world. they were part of this world, and the enemies were combined in an army, in a world ruled by a character of my creation. I'm thinking of putting my ideas onto paper, and possibly publishing. I won't take the video game characters name for name and detail for detail, but I'll give them different names. But, the description of the looks characters in the book will make me think of those in the video game. Other than that, that's where the similarities end. Is this a good idea? This seems like a motivation to keep me going forward, but is this legally and "politically" a good idea? thx --LastLived 02:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

See fan fiction. --Jayron32 02:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Note that this question was cross posted at Humanities. Shadowjams (talk) 06:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

• Please edit this at Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Writing_games_with_video_game_characters to avoid cross-posting. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Who chained two mountains together?

From G. K. Chesterton's "A Defence of Rash Vows": "Yet these vows are not more extraordinary than the vows which in the Middle Ages and in similar periods were made, not by fanatics merely, but by the greatest figures in civic and national civilization -- by kings, judges, poets, and priests. One man swore to chain two mountains together, and the great chain hung there, it was said, for ages as a monument of that mystical folly."

Is this real, and if so who did it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.91.173.228 (talk) 09:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't know about mountains, but stretching a chain from one side to another of a narrow bay used to be an effective way of denying access to undesirable ships. TomorrowTime (talk) 11:28, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The star of Moustiers hanging from a chain which links two mountains

Close-up of the star

Perhaps the mysterious chain in Moustiers-Sainte-Marie? ---Sluzzelin talk 11:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Sluzzelin appears to be correct. From Thomas Carlyle's "Memoir of Mirabeau": "One Riquetti (in performance of some vow at sea, as the tradition goes) chained two mountains together: 'the iron chain is still to be seen at Moustier;—it stretches from one mountain to the other, and in the middle of it is a large star with five rays;' the supposed date is 1390. Fancy the smiths at work on this business!" —Deor (talk) 11:39, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Neither the original chain nor star are to be seen today. The chains are replaced when they rust and the size of the star has varied through the centuries, from 1m80 to 30 cm. The chain is 225m long and the present star 1m15 is from 1957. Here is a better picture of the star of Moustiers. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:40, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you could amend the WP article if you have a source, Cuddlyable; it says "the star has never been replaced". Alansplodge (talk) 22:22, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I have put a comment at the article talk page and will wait a while before editing. My only source is already referred in the article. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Netflix postage

How much does Netflix spend on postage each year? Procrastinatus (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:04, 6 October 2010 (UTC).

Apparently about $600 million. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I wonder which is their biggest cost, the postage or the cost of the DVDs? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:41, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

This is starting to sound like a business school Fermi problem! Well, let's work backwards from $600 million a year. Netflix sends their stuff barcoded first class presorted (as I see from looking at one that came today). That means they spend roughly 38 cents per DVD per one-way trip. Multiply that by two for a round trip and you've got 76 cents per customer DVD. So that's some 790 million DVD trips per year. Now Googling around a bit suggests that Netflix has some 89 million individual DVD discs. Let's assume that on average each disc costs $20 (if I recall correctly from my days in a video store, the price is quite variable depending on the movie in question — some are lower than this, some are much higher, some end up having a lower per-disc cost because they are sold in a box set and then broken into individual discs, etc.) That would mean they sunk, over their near decade or so of existence, some $2.7 billion into developing their inventory. Assume there is some degree of loss from the post office, and that they add considerable new titles per year, and replace some old or broken ones. It seems unlikely, whatever they did, that new inventory and inventory replacement would cost over $600 million per year — that would mean they'd have to replace something like a 1/4rd of their current inventory every year (or grow by some large amount per year). I would suspect the replacement rate is lower than that, say, one in 10 or so. This is very back of the envelope and I'm no B-school consultant, but my general conclusion would be, "yes, Netflix probably spends more per year on postage than it does on acquiring or replacing inventory." This makes perfect sense, of course — your total back-and-forth with the customers can use a relatively small DVD base if it is organized sensibly, since most people are not going to want to see the same DVDs at exactly the same time. Netflix as an operation is all about logistics (getting the DVDs from one place to another, doing it all seamlessly, etc.), not acquisition of inventory. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:11, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I suspect cost <$20 per the Blockbuster system where the company made DVDs to order, and destroyed ones no longer needed (above the base sales guaranteed to a movie company - excess of those were sold in wholesale channels as "previously viewed"), paying the movie companies royalties instead. And they quite likely do have more than a 25% turnover - folks generally want fairly recent movies. I would guesstimate their per DVD cost at about $6, and the turnover at 40% or more each year. Netflix actually wants users to use the internet for classics - their royalty costs would be flat (very low on classic films), and cost of handling and postage for DVDs goes to zero. [2] shows the number of DVDs mailed per subscriber going down - now headed from 6 per month to under 4 per month. Collect (talk) 11:33, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Toronto recreation centres and parks

Is there a website where we can get information of each recreation centres in Toronto in order to hold any kind of programs like reunions and how much a room cost for renting one? also, is there a website where we can get detailed information about parks in Toronto such as how much does it the rent cost to host a picnic? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.18.229 (talk) 16:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Google is your friend. I searched on "Toronto event venue" and came up with many websites listing event and hospitality services in Toronto - this is one example, but there were more. I doubt you'll find any sort of bare price comparison online though, because most such venues like to talk to customers and find out their exact needs before quoting a rate for the event. You'll probably need to choose a few likely prospects and contact them direct. I couldn't find any info about parks, but several of the "unique venues" listed on the above site do mention that they host outdoor events. Karenjc 16:55, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

If you live in Toronto, phoning 311 is also your friend. They should be able to put you through to someone with the necessary information, or if not, tell you what number to call. They can also be emailed: the email address is the 3 digits and the domain name is toronto.ca. --Anonymous, 18:42 UTC, October 6, 2010.

Toronto.ca also has a webpage for Parks and Recreation, here. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• As a resident of Toronto (and former event planner), I second the link to TSEvents.com if you are looking for a more traditional venue. Bear in mind that with most event venues you must use a caterer from the approved list, or pay an extra fee (usually 10% of gross catering cost) to the venue. Karenjc is half right about venues not posting prices; some do and some don't. It depend son the sort of venue; some will simply have a flat rate for a given room, while others will change or waive the rental fee if you are using onsite catering (e.g. hotels will require a F&B minimum spend; if you reach it the room rental will be free, and you may get discounts/comps on accommodations as well). If all you need is a room, the Parks & Rec site is more useful. If you need more detailed help, feel free to contact me on my talk page. → ROUX ₪ 21:24, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Cell phones that are less than of 70g and 1cm thick

Are there any cell phones that are less than of 70g and 1cm thick but have all the features of the Nokia 5310 (like, picture and video cam, music player, radio, emails in real time, etc.) for public from Nokia or from other companies now? Susan White (talk) 17:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Google Squared might a good starting point for this kind of research. I added a "weight" and "dimension" column to the search for "cell phones" and was able to find a few smartphones that came close to your criteria. --—Mitaphane _{Contribs | Talk} 18:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Big stripes on WW2 aircraft

What was the purpose of the large stripes on some WW2 aircraft, such as in the final illustraion of this article: North American B-25 Mitchell? Thanks 92.24.183.150 (talk) 23:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Invasion stripes, to reduce incidents of Friendly fire. They were first used in a major way by the allies during the Normandy invasion in 1944. Buddy431 (talk) 23:26, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

They made aircraft easy to see and to recognise as friendly, as has been said. Note, however, that this was only possible because of the almost total domination of Allied airpower over Europe.95.176.67.194 (talk) 07:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)Froggie.34

October 7

Vasthu/ Geomancy

I recently purchased an apartment which was previously owned by an Indian Catholic.

I noticed that at the top of every door frame, there is a nail, about 7cm-8cm in length embedded at the top right hand side of each doorframe.

I was wondering why the nail was there, and tried doing some research on Catholic beliefs/Vasthu (as the previous owner was an Indian), but to no avail.

Any explanation why there's a nail on each and every doorframe of the apartment? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seitoob (talk • contribs) 08:22, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Do the doors have keys that might need to be hung out of reach? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Are we to assume that you have discounted previous owners before him putting up mezuzot?--Aspro (talk) 11:41, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Rivers

Hypothetically if a river were to flow from north to south, if the more extreme climate in the north caused the river to freeze over for winter, how would this effect the parts of the river in the south? Would this cause the river to stop flowing altogether and dry up for winter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 09:18, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Depends which hemisphere you're in. HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Few rivers are sufficiently long that such a climate difference exists and that only the one source which freezes supplies the entire water flow. Even when a river "freezes over", it rarely freezes to the riverbed. The water flow in the Mississippi does not go to zero - but it definitely has greater flow when snow pack in the north melts, frequently causing flooding. An interesting sidelight is the Niagara Falls which has, rarely, frozen completely, leaving the base withut any water flow. As a curiousity, the St. Johns River in Florida is one of the few significant Northern Hemisphere rivers to flow north. Collect (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Major north flowing Northern Hemisphere rivers include Ob River, the Mackenzie River, the Rhine River, the Nile River. There might be more then you think. Googlemeister (talk) 13:39, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The Nile is a bi-hemispheric river. Collect (talk) 18:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Not if it is considered to start at Lake Victoria (0.5 deg N), which appears the most common assertion. In any case, The vast majority of its 4,100 mile length is in the northern hemisphere. Googlemeister (talk) 18:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, if by freeze over you mean freeze solid, and there is no tributary supplying water to the river, it will run dry leaving something resembling a glacier in its northern reaches. There may be isolated pools of water that eventually evaporate. I don't see that the hemisphere makes a difference. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The hemisphere comment was with respect to the assumption that a river flowing from north to south would be flowing from a cold to a warmer climate. It's obviously a northern hemisphere centric view. The reverse would be the case in the southern hemisphere. Yes, maybe a petty comment, but this IS a global encyclopaedia. HiLo48 (talk) 11:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Religion

Recently in the news there was an article in which they discussed an area in India where a sacred Hindu site was also that of an Islamic holy site, the Hindu site had been there for a few thousand years while the Islamic site was built on top of it in the 1500’s. It occurred to me that this is not the only case where such a thing has happened; take the Dome of the Rock for example. This has been a holy site for the Jews for many years, yet now there is a Mosc on the site too, both of these sites have been there for a very long time but the Jewish site predates the Islamic one by many years. I have no problem with any ones religion but am curious if this is a purposely-implemented policy or just coincidence? I have named but two of a number of examples that I could quote where an Islamic holy site has been built on top of, not next to, or across the road, but right on top of a pre-existing holy site of a separate religion. Is this a common practice? If it is a purposely implemented procedure, why? If not, then why does it seem so prevalent, or is my view biased in some way? As an aside, who is the leader of Islam? Who is the leader of the Jewish faith? E.g., the Pope is the leader of the Catholics, the Anglicans have a leader too, whose name escapes me at the moment, Rowan some one or other. Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 09:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The debate you are referring to is the Ayodhya debate. Other than that, some places are just naturally suitable for worship, and when one religion replaces another it would come naturally to also take such a intrinsically holy place over. Another reason may be to try and make the transition from one religion to another smoother (think Christmas and Easter being celebrated on the dates of major pagan festivities). Over here in my neck of the woods, there is a whole bunch of iconic little churches built on tops of hills, and one explanation I've heard for this is that they were placed there to replace temples to the god Svetovid, who would around here typically have a place of worship on top of a hill. TomorrowTime (talk) 11:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

In some parts of Mexico there are Catholic churches built on the sites of pre-Columbian temples, and sometimes even with the same stones. Vultur (talk) 13:22, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

To the OP's latter points, there is no single "Anglican Church" but the symbolic leader of the Anglican Communion (see article) is the Archbishop of Canterbury, currently Dr. Rowan Williams. Wikipedia has an article about Islamic religious leaders. Authority in Judaism on theological and legal matters is not vested in any one person but in many rabbis and scholars. (updated) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Reuse of religious sites goes back thousands of years - some Jewish sites may have been religious sites before Judaism, many European churches were built on pagan sites, Roman temples were found to have non-Roman temples beneath them, and so on. (WRT Judaism, it had "congregationalism" before the Protestant congregational movement existed.) Collect (talk) 11:19, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

A striking example is the Great Mosque of Córdoba, which began as a Christian church, was bought and turned into a large and important mosque when the region came under Islamic control, only to become a cathedral again after the reconquista, complete with an entire cathedral nave pretty much plonked down into the centre of the Moorish mosque architecture. Karenjc 16:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Another striking example is the Kaaba, which was already an important religious site before Mohammed destroyed the idols and rebuilt it. --ColinFine (talk) 17:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The leader of Islam is the Caliph, though there has not been one since 1924, it seems the kings of Saudi Arabia, who have the best opportunity to claim the title, dislike the idea of such a leader, even if it is themselves. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 15:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The Dome of the Rock is a different case from the Ayodhya site. Islam has a relation to Judaism similar to the relationship that Christianity has, and so sites that are holy to Judaism are also holy to Islam. There is no basic relationship of Islam with Hinduism, though. Looie496 (talk) 17:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The relationship of Islam to Judaism is hardly similar to that of Christianity to Judaism -- Islam split from Abrahamic times with a replacement theology concept. They assert that Ishmael was the chosen son of Abraham rather than Isaac. Christianity was spawned from Judaism when they accepted Jesus as the Messiah, a concept they plucked from Judaism, and they ran with it. Moreover, tenets of Islam dictate that they conquest and dominate over others, while Christianity demonstrates no such theological objection to Jewish self-rule. There are many instances of Jew-hatred that sprung up among Christianity -- such as that of Martin Luther -- but Prager and Telushkin's Why the Jews? explains this all very nicely. So while both religions might have promoted a sense of opposition to Judaism, Islam represents a more belligerent antipathy. Non-Muslims will never really know the details of the rationale of why Islam takes notable sites of worship and reverence from other religions and turns them into sites of Islam, but one can get a pretty good idea from the aforementioned text, and other sources. Or you might find some information at Dar al Harb. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 19:44, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The Ishmael legend is about the origin of Arab peoples, not on the origin of Islam. It predates Islam by a long time. While Islam started among Arabic peoples, there are many muslims who have no arabic background at all. Indeed, the largest muslim population in the world is in Indonesia, and I am pretty sure that the Indonesians don't have a foundation myth related to Ishmael. You are getting your wires crossed with regards to arab vs. muslim They are overlapping, but not identical concepts. --Jayron32 22:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

If you read the Ishmael article, you'll see that Ishmael holds a primary position for Muslims, while in Judaism, he is an ancillary character. Arab Muslims claim to be from Ishmael, and non-Arab Muslims are followers of the religion started by Ishmael, an Arab. The same way there can be a converted Asian Jew, there can be a converted Asian or Malaysian or Indonesian Muslim -- and they all follow the teachings of the Koran, which denigrates Jews. That's why Bosnian Muslims volunteered to become an SS unit to fight against the Jews -- not because they were Arabs, but because they were Muslims. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'll ignore the nonsequitur stuff which seems to confuse the issue under debate, but the fact is that Ishmael existed some 2000 years before there was an Islam. He didn't found Islam any more than Moses founded the Southern Baptists. There is no unbroken line from Ishmael to Muhammad. Abrahamic mythology had been part of the Semitic world from the Levant to Arabia, even among the pre-Islamic Arabs. And the fact that some people twist their religion to justify attrocities committed against people of other religions doesn't mean that all practitioners of that religion are to be painted with the same brush. Islam is a very diverse religion, and has been for a long time. Bosniak muslims were Europeans too, and so existed in the same cultural millieu as other Europeans. To tease out their anti-semitism as being somehow derived solely from their Muslim status (rather than being justified after the fact by themselves and others as such), and not from the same sorts of places that Germans, Polish, Russian, and other antisemitic Europeans got it from is just silly. I said I wasn't going to do that. Oh well. --Jayron32 02:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I do not really want to get into this, DR, and it is becoming rather outside the scope of the question anyway, but saying the Koran "denigrates Jews" is a bit strong. Paganism is the religion that really gets Allah going, actually, not Judaism or Christianity, both of which are spoken of with respect in the Koran and many other Islamic texts (and as I am sure you may know that is also something that the G-d of Israel seems to have a thing about...). There is nothing in Islam that is fundamentally "anti-Semitic", and much of the conflict between Jews and Muslims is of very recent origin. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 02:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, not all of it... Adam Bishop (talk) 15:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Who is the leader of Islam?

In a sense, Islam is run today a bit like Wikipedia is! We have "Administrators" much like they have "Ulama" in Islam. Our article on Ulama explains:

The ulama in most nations consider themselves to represent the ijma "consensus" of the Ummah "community of Muslims" (or to represent at least the scholarly or learned consensus). Many efforts to modernise Islam focus on the reintroduction of ijtihad and empowerment of the ummah to form their own ijma.

Islam has no single worldly "authority" in the way Catholics have a Pope, etc., but some Ulama clerics (both living and dead) are more respected or influential than others. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:34, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Islam is run today...like Wikipedia -- Damn, that explains a lot. Signed, a former ayatollah. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 14:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Lots of religious sites are re-used, either sacred places where people gather being adapted to a new religion (e.g. St Pancras Old Church, second oldest site of Christianity in England) or buildings, abandoned by a shrinking congregation, passing into new hands (e.g. Brick Lane Mosque, built as a French Huguenot church, then a Wesleyan and Methodist chapel, then a Jewish synagogue, now a Bangladeshi mosque). You may also be interested in Category:Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques. BrainyBabe (talk) 22:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

And, for sake of comparison, Category:Conversion of non-Christian places of worship into Churches. BrainyBabe (talk) 22:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Thomas England House

Does anyone have any ideas where I could find the history of the Thomas England House located in Smyrna Delaware? I'm told it has an extensive history and was built 300 years ago. ThanksTig3138 (talk) 10:12, 7 October 2010 (UTC) Moved from the request board. VernoWhitney (talk) 12:16, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Does this help? - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 17:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything older than this postcard of the house. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:13, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Moving to the UK from US

A two part question. Am looking in other avenues but it never hurts to plumb the minds of the reference desk.

1. What is a good method for shipping personal property from the USA to the UK when a US citizen with a visa moves over? Is there a good shipping or haulage company?
2. What is a good method for paying off bills in the USA for a US citizen now living in the UK? The company states they only accept US currency and there would have to be some sort of conversion fee or something to do with some sort of Swift account?

Thanks! 95.148.246.128 (talk) 12:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

For the latter, try to keep a checking account (US term) (current account is the UK term) open in the US. You can then use web-banking to pay your bills from it. Transferring a few large payments from the UK to the US will probably be cheaper than lots of small ones. This assumes that your US bank account doesn't have large monthly charges. In the UK most current accounts don't have monthly charges; those that do give you things like free mobile phone insurance, car breakdown assistance, etc.

You may wish to ask your US bank for a letter-of-introduction; this basically is a sworn letter from them that you are who you say you are. Without it you need to go through rigorous identity checks under the UK's anti-money laundering laws. Unless you have 3 (or 6) months of electricity/phone/gas statements you may find it hard. I removed the blank line between your two questions, as it was stopping the autoline numbering working correctly. CS Miller (talk) 13:31, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

If this proves to be a problem, I'd recommend the original poster try to open an account at a bank branch that serves a university. Staff at such branches will be more used to the standards of proof of, and their own bank's systems for handling, the identity of non-UK, and particularly non-EU, customers. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 19:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

As the OP appears to already be in the UK s/he may have already closed their US accounts. If this is so and if it is only one or two payments, then the easiest option may be to use the UK online banking service of his bank, to request that a Foreign Draft be sent to him. It is about half the normal fee if done online. As the normal fee is about £18 to £20 it still ain't cheap. This is the cheapest fee, that a quick Google of UK banks gave me if he hasn't already got one.International-payments. SWIFT is all capital letters and stands for Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication The post above gives the better way to do it.--Aspro (talk) 16:43, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Amazon/Ebay

What happens on Ebay or Amazon if a person who has paid for something if the seller does not send that item to that person? Besides getting kicked off as a seller? Does Ebay or Amazon cover the cost? How does that work, what insurance do they have that will ensure people get their stuff and don"t get ripped off? Also, does peoples credit card information is it processed through Amazon or Ebay and not given out to every seller, how does that work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.246.230 (talk) 13:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

If you purchase from Amazon, I don't think they bill you until their affiliate retailer ships the item.

On eBay, you're dealing with individuals, not stores. If you pay through PayPal, you may be able to cancel your payment. Additionally eBay has recently instituted something called eBay Buyer Protection which gives you further protection on most items, if you've payed through PayPal.

However, there are strict time-limits on both of these methods of getting your money back. A clever con artist will try to string you along with lies and promises until you've gone past the 30 days for a paypal refund and the 45 days for the buyer protection.

If you've used some other form of payment, more than likely you're simply screwed. APL (talk) 15:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

eBay and Amazon definitely do not cover the cost. My understanding is that in some cases eBay will forward on information to local law enforcement if need be, but that's about the maximum amount of action on their part, other than banning sellers. As for the credit card information, generally it goes through a service like PayPal. You give your credit card info to PayPal and say, "send $10 to account XYZ." The seller, at account XYZ, gets a message saying, "$10 has been credited to your account." The seller never sees the credit info. Now there are some situations, if I recall, that PayPayl itself can be used to reverse transfers regarding credit cards. So you could buy something with a credit card, and if you don't get it, tell the credit card company to reverse the charge to PayPal, or something along those lines. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Mr.98, do you have a citation that eBay definitely does not cover the cost? APL linked to the "eBay Buyer Protection" description, which seems to state that if you paid with PayPal or a few other methods of payment, and if you comply with a lot of rules, then eBay may refund your money and bill the seller. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, well, they may have changed it since I last looked. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be a lot of confusing info here. eBay/PayPal has had buyer protection eBayers using PayPal for I understand a fair while. (I can find discussion of the buyer protection since at least 2008.) I think SteveBaker mentioned it a year or two ago. It depends precisely which eBay site you use to buy the item and also I think where your PayPal account is registered as but as I understand it most of the main ones do include decent buyer protection. (Certain items are ineligible for protection and there is a maximum amount.) I believe the change APL mentioned above is that for various reasons probably including fear of anti-competition action in some countries, eBay has recently changed policy to remove PayPal as a compulsory payment method and added buyer protection for some other payment methods.

For PayPal, the way it works if you don't receive an item is usually relatively simple. You file a dispute within 45 days. At this stage, PayPal automatically puts a hold on the total sum if there's still that much in the sellers account. You then have up to 21 days to resolve the dispute with the seller. Failing that, during these 21 days either party can choose to escalate the dispute where PayPal will mediate. If you claim the item is not received, the seller has to show evidence it was delivered. It doesn't matter if they can show evidence it was sent. If the item is over a certain value, they need to show a signature recorded delivery. If they fail to show evidence it was delivered, they're basically SOL, no matter what they or you may have said before buying. (PayPal has seller protection as well.) I'm not of course what will happen if anyone takes the issue to court.

In the past, many of the cheap HK/Chinese sellers used to offer insurance or tracking for extra saying it was the sellers responsibility if the item was lost, this isn't true in general and I've noticed few do that any more, in fact quite often for cheap items and popular destinations they will mention they will refund you if it doesn't arrive in X number of days. As may be obvious here, although it's PayPal's protection most of the time it's the seller. (I think a lot of small time sellers don't realise their requirements under the protection policy.) Of course if the seller has taken the money out of their account and disappeared then it is PayPal covering it.

I myself won a dispute a few months back against a German seller, the item arrived the day after I won the dispute so I repaid the seller. I presume it got lost for about 2 months because of the volcano disruptions in Europe. I actually waited the full 45 days, was planning to wait the 21 days but the seller quickly escalated it. This meant I lost more money because of being hit by currency exchange fees both ways (refund and payment or repayment) and annoyingly most of the cost of the item was in the shipping (shipping from Germany is rather expensive for small items, silly Deutsche Post/DHL).

Note that PayPals protections if you buy something outside eBay are different (for starters they usually don't cover you at all and do indeed only offer to try and recover the money fromn the seller).

BTW things get complicated if you have other problems, like the item isn't what was described (this includes I think extreme cases like you bought a computer and received a shoe) or was damaged or whatever. Generally for item not as described, as I understand it (this isn't one aspect I've looked in to that well), if you can't come to an agreement then you have to send the item back to the seller, at your cost. And as with the seller, you need to make sure you have evidence of delivery since if the seller claims they didn't receive the item you sent back, your SOL. Also in a case like this, you may only receive the cost of the item back less shipping even if the shipping was outrageous and not at all proportional to the actual cost.

Nil Einne (talk) 03:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

[3] (safe search off although I don't see anything that is likely to be affected) suggests protection has existed in some form since 2003. By the by, there may be some differences in whether you pay by credit card or whether you put money in to your account. As credit card is the only option in NZ, it's not something I've paid much attention to. Nil Einne (talk) 04:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I said "recently" because I thought that the buyer protection had only existed (in a useful form) for under a year. I couldn't find a cite for that, so I freely admit that it might not be as "Recent" as I believed it was. APL (talk) 04:26, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes I understand the details have varied over time. I admit I never paid much attention in the past, I didn't really buy that many items anyway (no on uses eBay for inter-NZ auctions). I've been looking in to the history to try and see how it's varied. Archive.org seems fairly useless in this case because it doesn't cover the relevant pages.

[4] mentions the changes in Australia in 2007, an increase in value covered if the seller has 50 total feedback and greater then 98% positive. And perhaps more important an expansion of the scheme to a lesser value but for most transactions, in particular the removal of a $25 administration fee which used to apply for those not covered by the older eBay scheme. ([5] from 2007 and the US mentions something similar.) This from 2006 and the US mentions the high feedback requirement as well [6]. Neither of these mention that you'll get the money back if it can't be recovered but this from 2005 and the UK [7] mentions they do (as I somewhat expected). Also [8] from 2006 mentions the requirement for proof of delivery.

From these results I think when you had coverage the scheme it self has been useful (meaning the seller can't just disappear with your money without sending the item) since 2005, possibly since it existed. But coverage in the past has only been with those where you probably don't need it i.e. with high positive feedback sellers. However since 2007 it appears coverage was expanded to probably most transactions.

I should also mention that not sending the item is probably only a minority of problems buyers have. I've already hinted at the issues you may face when the item isn't as described and I think these sort of problems are much more common. While searching I found plenty of complaints from buyers (and also some from sellers) about the protection scheme, these were all (in the case of buyers) of the item not as described variety. These were also the issues I recall reading about when researching in the past. Given the way the scheme works, it isn't surprising. (Another common complain is the fairly scripted manner of responses, from my history with eBay I'm not surprised of these complaints.)

BTW I forgot to clarify earlier I'm only referring to PayPal or eBay protections. You may have additional protections, e.g. from your credit card depending on the laws and policies where you live.

Nil Einne (talk) 06:39, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Professionalism

does it mean to be a professional you have to control ur emotions and not let human feelings overcome you even when it is an emotional situation. are'nt these diplomacy/professionalism have a stromg foundation of human respect and dignity or it means to be sly and get he job done to our advantage ??

please advise as i am in a dilemma witj my boss —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 14:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The first option is more correct. 92.29.116.249 (talk) 09:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Have you read our article professional? That covers some of the many definitions of the term. Warofdreams talk 16:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The Professional article is poor. Its better to read Profession#Characteristics_of_a_profession and Talk:Profession#A_skeleton_article_on_Professionalism. 92.29.116.249 (talk) 09:53, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Defining "professional" is unlikely to make much difference in a dispute with your employer, and quoting dictionary definitions at him/her may make matters worse. People put their own interpretations on words, although I think most would agree with you that professionalism implies a degree of self-control. If your employer's policy is to do business in a way you believe to be unethical, or if you feel under pressure to behave unethically in order to be seen as "professional" by your employer, are you in the right job? Karenjc 16:19, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Our article "professional" isn't going to help the original poster, and nor, surprisingly, is the Wiktionary entry. The definition over at m-w.com is better: "exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace", and the example sentence is, "I was impressed by the calm and professional way she handled the crisis." That said, I agree with Karenjc that quibbling over word definitions — although it is a STAPLE of what we do here at the Reference Desk — is often a pretty bad idea when interacting with your boss. Unless your boss also likes to edit the Reference Desk, I guess. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:55, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The OP is asking about the usage of "professional" to characterize a person's work ethic rather than its other meaning of having a formal qualification. The problem is that speakers tend to attach their own job interest to the word. For example, for a triage medic it means making calm objective decisions in a medical emergency. For a soldier it means unhesitating willingness to kill designated enemies. For a lawyer it means presenting only the aspects of a case that are to a client's advantage. For a plumber it means doing medium-quality work for a very good payment. For an advertising copywriter it means writing whatever will sell the product. The only factor in common is that all these people claim to be professionals with a foundation of human respect, whether that is credible or not. Wikipedia has a link for the so-called Professional criminal. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not very professional to assume that all plumbers are satisfied with medium-quality work. There must be some exceptions, surely. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:38, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Nor is it to direct the visitor to our article on Habitual offender in response to this question! If I were the visitor, I would come away quite confused by your answer, Cuddly. :|

I suppose I agree with CT's comment most. Yes: it is important to conduct oneself with "professionalism" in a dispute with one's employer. That may well include being respectful of their position (relative to yours), which may mean moderating those of one's emotions which in another context one might feel freer about expressing. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

The OP is understandably as confused as I am sceptical when the term professional is invoked but its intended meaning is obscure. It may mean as little as touting basic competence to satisfy a client, or as much as membership of a Guild that demands high standards for membership. Thus context is everything as my examples try to show. Jack is right that the single plumber I mentioned does not represent all professional plumbers nor the depths to which some plumbers plumb. Such as the exceptional one who routed sewage flow to his client's jacuzzi. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

• Q. "does it mean to be a professional you have to control ur emotions and not let human feelings overcome you even when it is an emotional situation"
• A. "yes"

WikiDao ☯ (talk) 12:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Look, when a boss starts talking about 'professionalism' there's really only two things you can be sure of: (1) the boss is annoyed with some general aspect of your behavior, and (2) the boss thinks you're a good employee (otherwise you wouldn't get the 'professionalism' talk, you'd get a lot of free time to look for a new job). The boss probably doesn't have an exact idea of what he means by 'professionalism' any more than you do, but it usually boils down to one or more of the following things:

• Attitude: 'professional' people treat their job as though they they are in it for the long haul. they arrive on time to meetings, they arrive prepared, they think ahead and anticipate future needs, they spend the time and effort to do things right. A boss will see you as professional (for an instance) when he says "We need a solution to X" and you say "Yes, I started working on that last week."
• Demeanor: 'professional' people inspire trust and confidence in both fellow employees and clients. part of that is sheer appearance - you'd be surprised how much a little thing like a stain on your tie can give people bad impressions (of the 'is he going to manage my account as badly as he manages his tie?' variety). Part of it a willingness to 'do for' without becoming servile; people don't have confidence in servile people and don't have confidence in people who they see as snooty, but a businessman who takes time out of his busy schedule to do something that needs doing is usually viewed as a consummate professional.
• Skillset: People expect professionals to have ready answer to difficult problems, so you have to be ahead of the game on the skills, information, and tools you need. again, that's part of the proactive attitude, but applied to yourself rather than the company - you need to ask yourself what you need to make yourself better at your job and seek it out.

just my 2¢. --Ludwigs2 07:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The OP asks about behaving diplomatically and professionally in an emotionally-charged dispute with his or her employer in New Delhi. The answer is that yes of course it is important to moderate one's emotions in such a situation. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 08:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I think that if the OP is unclear what their boss means by professional in this context then it is fair enough to ask. I am not quite sure whether the OP is saying that the boss said that they were unprofessional or whether the boss is asking the OP to act in a sly and underhand manner, which they consider unprofessional. Perhaps some more information could help us answer. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

(ec) The question also implies that controlling your emotions is sly. To quote more definitions, "sly" means 1. wise in practical affairs, 2. clever in concealing one's aims or ends, and 3. lightly mischievous. I'm guessing #2 is the intended meaning here. The question's wording does seem to suggest a moral or ethical problem resulting in strong emotions being expressed. If this is the case, I would say the real question is how much you need the job. If your job requires you to do something you are morally or ethically opposed to you should consider quitting and finding work better suited to your standards. If it is very important to keep the job then you have a personal dilemma to work out--and no one can tell you what the right choice is. I suspect most people struggle over questions about whether one's job is moral or ethical, or of value in general. Finding employment that is truly good and virtuous is extremely difficult--or at least tends to pay very poorly! However, if the issue here is not about ethics but more a matter of having lost control of your emotions, then something as simple as a sincere apology might be appropriate. It is okay to "let human feelings overcome you even when it is an emotional situation", but you are responsible for whatever happened as a result of being overcome by emotion. Apologizing for having lost control does not necessary mean you agree or are being "sly". I sometimes lose my temper, for example, and say hurtful things. It happens. The important thing is what to do about it afterward. If it is important enough to you, apologize for having lost control and then explain--calmly--why you do not agree. If it is not important enough, just apologize. Losing control of your emotions isn't a matter or being professional or not. Everyone loses control now and then, on or off the job. The question is what to do after the emotions subside. If you said something hurtful, apologize. If someone is asking you to act in a way you find unacceptable, explain why you cannot. Pfly (talk) 10:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The question does not imply that controlling your emotions is behaving in a sly manner. Professionals stay cool in difficult situations. They are ruled by reason, not emotion. They never let their emotions get the upper hand. Even if the client was being rude to the professional, or even if the client privately despised the client, the client would still recieve the same high standard of service that any other client would get. 92.29.116.249 (talk) 09:31, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

There are some situations where you might be asked to do something unethical because people have not understood or even looked at the situation. Even if you strongly disagree with what you are asked to do it is worth discussing the situation before leaving. An example I know of was a young woman who worked some evenings in a call centre to help finance a degree. She worked in collections and one of the jobs she had was to warn an 80-year old widow about an impending repossession of a house. The debt was about £5,000 on a £200,000 house! She told her colleagues that this was wrong and they all said "you have to do it". When she called her supervisor he talked to the collections manager and told her that this case should never have been sent for repossession, they had a lien on the home and could easily afford to wait until either the home was sold or the widow died, then collect the debt plus interest. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, always striving to do what's "right", even if that is not always entirely clear, in a calm and responsible manner, according to common-sense and established procedure, even in the face of difficulty and resistance, is also an important aspect of "professionalism." WikiDao ☯ (talk) 12:34, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The man who crash-landed the aircraft in the Hudson behaved in a professional manner. But the most important aspect of professionalism is being impartial and selfless. For example a judge making a decision without letting their own personal likes and dislikes for the individuals concerned influence their the decision, and disregarding any personal interests. The opposite of professionalism would be this person: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11500370 .

See Profession#Characteristics_of_a_profession and Talk:Profession#A_skeleton_article_on_Professionalism for information on professionalism. Anyone can and should behave with professionalism: if everyone did that, the world would be paradise.

92.28.254.120 (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Cillit Bang ads

Was the fictional character of Barry Scott in the Cillit Bang adverts based on Billy Mays, do you know? Thanks. --95.148.106.22 (talk) 16:26, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't know, but curious readers may be interested in the history of the Cillit Bang advertising campaign - here and here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Broken glass in my rug

A glass shattered all over my area rug. I picked up the big pieces and vacuumed several times, but I am worried about slivers that are embedded deep within the rug. Upon checking the internet for advice on getting the shards out I ran across an unusual one: a piece of bread can do the trick. How can bread pick up tiny pieces of broken glass effectively? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 19:44, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

It can't but spreading out breadcrumbs will mark where you have and have not vacuumed. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:58, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

roll it up, take it outside and beat it (unroll before beating!). Sweep up the outside afterwards, return the rug to your room - that ought to get rid of a good amount of the tiny shards too. Also use the 'hand' ny156uk (talk) 20:27, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

My hypothesis behind the bread idea (if it does work) is that it would mimic someone's foot and that, under pressure, glass slivers would be forced into it. Upon lifting the bread (similar to raising one's foot while walking) the glass would remain embedded in the bread. If it doesn't get stuck in the bread, it wouldn't get stuck in someone's foot, I suppose the idea is. I can't actually comment on the efficacy of such a treatment though. Brammers (talk/c) 22:46, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You could have my wife walk over your rug. Her feet can find glass like you wouldn't believe! Dismas|^(talk) 23:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:36, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

minor but obvious point: if you use the bread technique, it would be best not to eat it afterwards. Peanut butter, jelly and glass shard sandwiches are not quite as satisfying as one might expect. --Ludwigs2 07:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

That already sounds exquisitely unappetising even without the glass shards. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 09:54, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

...unless one is very very hungry. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

even then ... ---Sluzzelin talk 10:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I was talking about peanut butter and jelly in any circumstances. What sick mind ever dreamt of putting those foodstuffs together? (Almost as bad as the Oysters in Licorice Sauce I wish I had the balls to make and serve to some unsuspecting "friend").  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of jelly (it strikes me as jam for people who don't really like jam), but I don't know why you'd object to the combo with peanut butter. I love peanut-butter-and-jam sandwiches, as long as it's good jam. Plum, or orange marmalade, say. --Trovatore (talk) 09:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Re: Travel to Spain from England in the early 20th century

If you were travelling to Spain from England in the early 20th century, what port would you have left from and what kind of ship would it have been? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.61.207 (talk) 22:00, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Cadiz has always been a major Spanish port. I think it is still fairly important. --Jayron32 00:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The OP is asking for an English port. I think Dover, and on to Spain by rail, would be one route. AFAIK, this was Laurie Lee's route. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:56, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Then why not Southampton. The article mentions a ferry service ran out of Southampton to, among other places, San Sebastián. It does not mention when it started, but says that it ran until 1996. John Lennon stood at the Docks of Southampton, trying to get to Holland or France. There's also nearby Portsmouth, which according to its article has a service to several cities in Spain, including Bilbao and Santander. Historically, one of England's most important ports was Plymouth, so that may be your best bet. As far as the kind of boat, it would undoubtedly be some sort of steamship, see Steamboat#Ocean-going_steamships. Picture boats like the RMS Titanic or the RMS Lusitania, though probably smaller, as Intraeurope ships would likely be smaller than these larger transatlantic vessels. --Jayron32 01:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Liverpool vied with Southampton as the major passenger port in the country in the period, and certainly ran passenger ships to Spain as well as elsewhere in the world. The route is mentioned in this article, together with a list of the passenger lines that operated, some of which would have gone to Spain, but I can't be specific as to which lines ran that route. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:19, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

To summarise the above posts I think it comes to a choice between taking a short sea trip across the channel then taking the train or a long sea trip to a Spanish port -- Q Chris (talk) 09:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Was John Lennon around during the early 20th century - and was he trying to get to Spain? No! Caesar's Daddy (talk) 16:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, he was "Peter Brown called to say/You can make it OK/You can get married in Gibraltar, near Spain". Christ, you know it ain't easy (being right)... --Jayron32 03:26, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, later known as P&O, got its start operating steamships between London and the Iberian Peninsula, including Spain. This is where the "P" in its name comes from. Steamships were certainly the main form of passenger vessel used for sea voyages in the early 20th century. It makes sense that a traveler would depart from London, where all major rail lines in England terminate. If one were going to go to the trouble to transfer in London to a boat train to one of the Channel ports, such as Southampton, Dover, or Portsmouth, then why not buy a through ticket and board a train in France for the remainder of the journey to Spain. If, instead, one wanted to avoid the hassle of multiple transfers in London, Channel ports, and probably Paris, the most sensible thing would be to travel by train to London, and instead of going to Victoria or Waterloo Station for a boat train, just go to the docks and board a steamship directly to Spain. No doubt steamships left from other English Atlantic ports, such as Liverpool and perhaps Southampton or Plymouth, for Spain, but I would think London would be the most convenient for anyone south of about Derby and not on a direct rail line to a Channel port. Marco polo (talk) 16:54, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Reminder service

I'm looking for an online service/e-mail client that will send me reminder (in the form of an e-mail preferably) after a specified amount of time. The more difficult part is that I want it so that no one can access this reminder during the specified time. Thanks --The Dark Side (talk) 23:29, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Would Future Me do what you need it to do? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

They don't allow any time spans of less than a month.

You must send your email at least 30 days into the future...0 won't cut it. We're not a reminder service. This is your chance to say something profound.

Other than that, it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to know any reminder services similar to this site? --The Dark Side (talk) 00:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Why not one of the on-line calendar services like Google Calendar? You can set up reminders to events at any time in the future, and if the calendar status is set to private, no one else can see them. Rojomoke (talk) 02:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

To be more specific, I don't want someone (even using my account) to be able to see them. --The Dark Side (talk) 03:20, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

iCal by Apple Mac serves me very well, and will give notifications of events years ahead, though the OP's last request might be difficult to fulfil.--Artjo (talk) 07:47, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I would go further and say it was impossible to fulfil. If you're the user of the service you're going to want to access/edit/delete reminders. Such functionality will always be provided. --Viennese Waltz 08:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

You don't need an e-mail connection to do this. Just make a program that displays the reminder and save the executable. The task scheduler in Windows can run the program at any future time you choose. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:55, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Ask a friend to call you and remind you. --Ouro (blah blah) 12:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

May we know why the reminder has to be kept secret or inaccessible, or is that a secret? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to lock certain functionalities of my computer during the work week to prevent easily distracted people (read: myself and colleagues) from time wasting. --The Dark Side (talk) 14:54, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if there might not be a tool to do that directly. I don't know of one, but I'll bet a lot of people would use it. APL (talk) 15:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

If the "certain time wasting computer functionality" that you wish to have prevented is editing Wikipedia, then I know an easy way to get that done for free.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

October 8

Buying music downloads from a French website

I'm trying to buy a music download from a French website. It's a recording that does not appear to be available in other countries as a lossless download (I don't want mp3 or other lossy formats) or as a physical CD. The owner of the recording (one of the major labels) has licensed it to a French online retailer, but only for sale in France. Apparently I will need a credit/debit card with a French address, or an IP based there, or maybe both. (I'm in the USA.) Bright ideas would be appreciated. ReverendWayne (talk) 02:05, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not available as a physical CD? Ever? If it's owned by a major label, that would surprise me. If you tell me the artist and title I can try to find the CD online for you. --Viennese Waltz 07:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Mahler's Sixth Symphony, by Eduard Flipse and the Rotterdam Philharmonic, on Decca. Not on Naxos (which is dubbed from LP) or Bearac (also dubbed from LP) or even the orchestra's own release (apparently licensed from Naxos) but the one on Decca, which presumably has been remastered from the original Philips tapes. Thanks! ReverendWayne (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Budgie

How do i get my bugdies to lay eggs? I got male and female and I can make them mate but my female never lays eggs. Money is tight (talk) 05:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Our Budgie article talks a bit about Budgie breeding and some of the problems there can be with it. Good luck! WikiDao ☯ (talk) 05:48, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

If birds do not reproduce when other conditions are adequate, artificial insemination may be the answer. Sources confirm that works for many kinds of birds and are sure about chickens, pigeons and kakapos whose reproductive biology seems not too unlike budgies. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

My Dad used to breed prolific amounts of canaries and budgies and sell 'em to local pet shops and individuals in Northern England at a healthy profit during and after the WW2 years. He always gave an eyedropper drop of whisky or brandy to the hen bird directly on to her beak as he placed her with the cock bird, and they produced wonderful chicks as a result. It must have been the ornithological equivalent of the date-rape drug used today by some unscrupulous human males. But at least the practice used by my Dad ensured a steady stream of baby Budgies and Canaries - it made a lot of people happy as a result - and it made my Mum happy as there was always food on the table for our family of 2 adults and 5 post-war kids. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 18:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

What a lovely story; it made me happy too.--Artjo (talk) 20:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

How did they taste? ;) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Of thyme and parsley if they used Paxo.--Aspro (talk) 21:31, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Or did you mean by How did they taste? in the sense of:

A:My dog's got no nose.

B: How does he smell then?

A: Ruddy awful!

--Aspro (talk) 21:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Interested to know either way, actually. :) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The only reference that comes readily to hand suggesting they taste good is from the Australian National Budgerigar Council (ANBC) Inc. “...however, it can be stated on reliable authority that the name means “good food”. Two extracts support this. In Budgerigars in the Bush and Aviary by Neville Cayley, Percy Peir is quoted as saying.....” [9] If it is sitting upright on a perch, I suppose that it represents a balanced diet or perhaps a meal that is perfectly balanced :)--Aspro (talk) 09:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

My male goes on top of my female's back, and each time seems to have an orgasm (basically it rubs its underparts on my female's back and then suddenly stops and flies away). Is that how they do it for they to lay eggs? Money is tight (talk) 08:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Rock Hyrax

I need the exact sub specie of the rock hyrax that orrichanated from Nelspruit, Mpumalanga, South Africa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.186.18 (talk) 13:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Think you might find it is capensis or full name Procavia capensis capensis Common Rock Hyrax. If you look at Mammalian Species: Procavia capensis by Nancy Olds it gives all the type localities . This means the location of where the animal was found, which was first discribed and been given that name. I can not see Nelspruit listed. Cavia capensis entery appears to be the closest. --Aspro (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

A question on intvu

is there some ways we can improve our interview skills on questions asked based on circumstances about leading the team e.g how will you handle the team if two people are not going well in the team/ what if you feel the top performer has behavioural issues do you throw him out , what are the challanges and changes you would introduce etc...etc i.e questions on events/circumstances ,so is there a link or a website that can help. sorry if this is too demanding i very well know this is not "very appropriate" a platform to asked about, but anyone who may, would appreciate it.. thanks in advance.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 16:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of this is sometimes called "behaviour based interviewing", and a Google search for that finds quite a bit of helpful material. In general it works pretty well, except on software engineers (who seem to lack the "Delta Brain Wave"). -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 17:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

When I attended some training as an interviewer (many years ago) we were advised not to ask "what would you do if ... " questions, as they will tell you either what the candidate thinks you would want to hear, or else what the candidate hopes they would do. We were advised to prefer "what did you do when ... " questions. --ColinFine (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was the gist of the interviewing course that I got. Stuff like "tell me about a situation in your work history when you had interpersonal conflict with your manager". It worked splendidly on hardware (electrical) engineers, who came equipped with lengthy stories of how horrible everyone they'd ever worked for was, and how noble and magnificent they'd been in response. But the software engineers all, to a man and woman, claimed they "couldn't recall" any such circumstance; it was like interviewing Nixon. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 18:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, not to be snarky, but the best way to answer questions like that is to know the answers. The questions that were mentioned only make sense for a management-level position, and a person shouldn't really expect to get a position like that without having some actual management skills. Looie496 (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Most ubiquitous product

What single product can be purchased in more retail outlets in the U.S. than any other? I'm thinking it's probably a 12 ounce can of Coke, which can be found in any supermarket or convenience store, most drugstores, and a bunch of other places such as restaurants, ballparks, and amusement parks, but I could be wrong. Any other possibilities? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 17:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd say the 20 oz bottle far outstrips the 12 oz can. Even my local Staples carries a few 20 oz bottles of various sodas near the check-out lanes. But the only place I can get an individual 12 oz can would be at some gas stations. Dismas|^(talk) 18:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Unless you count US currency as a product ("purchasing" 4 quarters with a $1 bill for example), I would agree with the 20 oz bottle theory. Googlemeister (talk) 18:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the Coke is probably a good bet. If there was a particular candy bar that had the same kind of market share that Coke does, it might qualify, but there's probably too much variety there. Those individual packages of Kleenex that hold a small number of tissues are pretty commonplace, but you wouldn't often find them in restaurants. Of course, many/most "bottles" aren't sold in ballparks/theatres in favour of the syrup-based fountain drinks. Matt Deres (talk) 19:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Bic pen? Bus stop (talk) 19:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hershey Bars. Ubiquitous. Collect (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Coke bottles are more common than Coke cans, or certainly Hershey bars, where I live. Is it cheating to say the product is "water" without defining a brand? Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Water, water, ubiquitous, nor any drop to drink.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if you include all stores, but if you confine yourself to American and/or British supermarkets, the most purchased food item is bananas.[10], [11], [12], [13], [14]. So many bananas are sold in supermarkets, that the markets make more money off of bananas than any other single product, even though, on a per-pound basis, bananas are among the cheapest foods you can buy. (cited at several links above as well). --Jayron32 03:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

That feeling you get just before someone smacks you in the face.............

My question? Last week I flew from Scotland to Mallorca (and return) with my wife using the budget carrier Ryanair. Despite many warnings about baggage charges, online check-in, chargeable hold baggage with severely restricted weight checks, severely restricted cabin baggage weights etc, etc., we actually had no problems, probably because we read the small print very closely and abided by the rules. We did see a lot of problems at both airports where the "victims" were clearly at fault for not doing so and suffering as a consequence, which consequently added to the wait of those behind the "malefactors". My question? Oh, yes. When we got to the boarding gate, after security etc., we saw one couple being refused permission to board because "they had not checked-in at the Bag-Drop" (previously known as Check-in). The couple protested that they had no bags to check in, only cabin hand luggage below the allowed allowance; that they had paid to check-in online; that they had turned up at the airport in plenty of time; and that they saw no logical point in queueing at the Bag Drop desk as they simply had no bags to drop. But they were still refused permission to board the aircraft and had to plead to be allowed to return to the "Bag-Drop" area to "Check-in" as they had already been allowed to pass "the point of no return at Customs". They eventually missed the flight. My question? I am not asking for a legal interpretation here - but am simply wanting to know what is the difference in real terms between a "Bag Drop" and a "Check-In" desk for future reference. In other words, if I don't have any bags to check in, and I have paid to check in online, why do I need to go through the "Bag-Drop" procedure? Thanks. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh, and after all that, your question appears to have nothing whatsoever to do with the title you've given it. I would understand it better if you'd called it "That feeling you get just before you smack someone in the face".  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jack (no pun intended), your response was the smack in the face I was anticipating when I posted my question. I must be getting too good at this. But my question stands anyway. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 21:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Next time please use a descriptive heading for your question. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Was the problem possibly that they lacked boarding passes? If they didn't possess them, then indeed they should have checked in, at the Check-In area naturally, and obtained them. They should have been stopped at the security checkpoint if they lacked boarding passes, though. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:53, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it's a small print solution. Ryanair state here and in at least one other (fairly obscure) place on their website that passengers must get online boarding passes checked and validated before proceeding through security. It says you do this at the "Ryanair Visa/Document Check Desk" - presumably this is the same place as "bag drop" aka "check-in". In other words, you have to queue at check-in whether you have paid for online check-in or not, and whether or not you have any hold baggage to check in. As Comet Tuttle rightly points out, they should not have made it through security without someone pointing this out to them (although "validation" of their home-printed passes may not amount to anything more than a checkbox on a computer screen, so the problem may not have been apparent until they were compared against an approved list on a screen at the departure gate). Doubtless Ryanair, being committed to customer service, will want to review the clarity of their passenger information to ensure others do not suffer loss as a consequence of a similar misunderstanding. Karenjc 22:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO ANSWERED MY QUERY - INCLUDING JACK - WHO RESPONDED AS ANTICIPATED IN THE WAY HE DID. TO Sadhiyamah, I say, get a life. And to the rest, I thank you for confirming that Ryanair are simply using online Check-in as a subterfuge for charging people to home-print their boarding passes in the expectation that they won't need to go through the Bag-Drop alias Check-in procedure (thus generating yet more income for Ryanair. Yet another cover-up for customer abuse. Sounds something like a banking scam to me. But never again. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 23:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

That's a somewhat unnecessary remark to Sadhiyamah. He/she was just saying in a more direct way what I was suggesting in a more roundabout way. It really is important to have titles that reflect at least something of the substance of the question (hence our rule not to call a question "Question", for example). Your heading seems to have zero relevance to your question, hence our remarks. Typing in all caps is also not on, as it is interpreted as you shouting at us, which we don't like. We're quiet, nerdy types here, and frighten easily. But we also know how to stand our ground when necessary. Like now. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 01:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not quite so clear-cut as you suggest (that online check-in is a scam way to relieve you of €5). The wording of the Ryanair FAQ actually says: "... all non EU/EEA citizens must have their travel documents checked and online boarding pass stamped at the Ryanair Visa/Document Check Desk ..." Maybe the couple in question non-EU citizens. Certainly, the last time I had no baggage to drop-off and checked-in online (with another airline), I went straight to security with no airline personnel seeing my home-printed boarding pass until I presented myself at the gate. If I had been refused boarding because of some tiny detail only buried in the small print, I would have been very annoyed.

As for the difference between "bag drop" and "check-in", there used to be a big difference when self-check-in (either with a machine at the airport or online at home) was something very few people did. Now though, there is no difference. Astronaut (talk) 09:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

News in America

Anyone ever notice how over-dramatized the news is in America when you compare it to British news? Why is American news so over-dramatized? Battleaxe9872 ^{وکیپیڈیا} 22:15, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

"If it bleeds, it leads." The movie Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore theorizes that one function of TV news in America is to surround Americans with an atmosphere of fear. (The film directly contrasts American news broadcasts with some understated Canadian broadcasts.) Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:26, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "the news." Certainly newspapers in the U.S. seem much more sober than many of their equivalents in Britain. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

A major difference between the two situations is that a huge player in British TV and radio is the BBC which, while it does chase ratings to some extent, is funded by the public through licences and by the government, so doesn't actually depend on ratings. American media doesn't have an equivalent moderating elephant in the room, and is almost exclusively dependent on advertising revenue based on ratings. In my view, that leads to a greater short term emphasis on sensationalism in American news services. HiLo48 (talk) 22:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I would make a slightly different argument than Comet Tuttle and Michael Moore. I agree with HiLo48 that, because the American media are completely dependent on advertising, ratings are much more important to them than to British media, where the BBC, sets a tone and would offer competition to over-the-top and moronic news. However, I'm not convinced that vapid stories about violent crime would necessarily draw more viewers than hard-hitting exposés of the utter corruption of American politics and its abject subjection to the big corporations and the wealthy oligarchy who control them. Because we have no real equivalent to the BBC to keep our mainstream media honest, our media, controlled by the same oligarchy, offer sensational "news" as a form of circus to distract the American people from the fact that they are being robbed blind. Marco polo (talk) 00:09, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Gee, and I thought my post may have been a bit too POV! Are you suggesting it's a variation on Bread and circuses? HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

When I was working in television news, one of the more frequent comments I heard was that the purpose of a news broadcast was to fill the time in between the commercials. — Michael J 00:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Significance of ten in China?

This article on the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11503729) states that people are rushing to get married on October 10, 2010 because the date is 10/10/10... but it doesn't explain why that date might mean something (and also has no evidence of statistical import, but that's another matter). I gather from the article that it has special importance to Chinese people, but it never says why. The only thing I was able to find after skimming the Chinese numerology page was Double Ten Day... but it doesn't seem like that's what the article was about. Any ideas? 69.120.0.81 (talk) 22:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

People in China might attach an even greater significance to the day, but such "special dates" are regarded as "auspicious days" throughout the world (or at least, in this case, everywhere that uses the Gregorian calendar), perhaps just because they are easy to remember. Perhaps someone here will try to make an edit at 10:10 on 10/10/10. Dbfirs 02:40, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount the historical day, just like Americans getting married on the Fourth of July, or French getting married on the Fourteenth.—— Shakescene (talk) 07:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

October 9

background music

i have a song whose background music is the only thing i want. is there a way to detach background music somehow...anyhow. :)--Myownid420 (talk) 07:55, 9 October 2010 (UTC)