Talk:List of countries and territories by land and maritime borders: Difference between revisions
→Nagorno-Karabakh: Done |
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The table lists Azerbaijan as the only country bordering the [[Nagorno-Karabakh Republic]]. While the former [[Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast]] is surrounded completely by Azerbaijan, the area claimed by the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic also borders Iran and Armenia. These should be added to the NKR's land borders. [[User:SiBr4|SiBr<sub>4</sub>]] ([[User talk:SiBr4|talk]]) 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
The table lists Azerbaijan as the only country bordering the [[Nagorno-Karabakh Republic]]. While the former [[Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast]] is surrounded completely by Azerbaijan, the area claimed by the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic also borders Iran and Armenia. These should be added to the NKR's land borders. [[User:SiBr4|SiBr<sub>4</sub>]] ([[User talk:SiBr4|talk]]) 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC) |
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:It also only had Nagorno-Karabakh on the Armenia entry. I've added the various entries. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 06:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC) |
:It also only had Nagorno-Karabakh on the Armenia entry. I've added the various entries. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 06:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC) |
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== El Salvador and Honduras == |
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In one place, the article says that El Salvador and Honduras only share a maritime border. In another place, it says that they share both land and maritime borders. Obviously, both can't be factually accurate. [[User:Gringo300|Gringo300]] ([[User talk:Gringo300|talk]]) 07:37, 24 April 2013 (UTC) |
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Splitting the table
As it stands the list proves simply confusing, and shockingly long. I propose that the dependent territories be siphoned off into their own little table (or just deleted). Antarctic territories could go into another table altogether, they only border each other anyway. Of course, the main table should have both the Countries including dependencies, and without, like the UK is now.
As for states with limited recognition, I think they're best represented in the table with other states, but they should be added to bordering countries. For example, South Ossetia says it borders Russia and Georgia, but neither Georgia or Russia say they border South Ossetia. Putting it in italics in the side would in my opinion be the most NPOV option. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 16:39, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- Since it is in alphabetical order I'm not sure that length is a concern. There are a lot of territories in the world, so it will be long. In general it could be improved w.r.t. places of limited recognition. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:32, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Test
Country or territory (Territories without full sovereignty[1] in italics) |
No. of land border neighbours[2] |
No. of maritime boundary neighbours[2] |
Total no. of unique neighbours[2] |
Neighbouring countries and territories (Territories without full sovereignty[1] in italics) (L) = share only land borders (M) = share only maritime boundaries blank = share land borders and maritime boundaries |
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2 | 4 | 4 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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1 | 1 | 1 | ![]() |
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7 | 0 | 7 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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1 (2) | 3 | 3 (4) | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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4 | 4 | 6 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Borders Kosovo, which some countries consider to be part of Serbia | ||||
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6 (7) | 4 | 8 (9) | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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0 | 3 (5) | 3 (5) | ![]() ![]() |
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0 | 0 | 0 | |
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2 | 0 | 2 | ![]() ![]() |
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4 | 3 | 4 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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0 | 4 | 4 | ![]() |
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2 | 3 | 3 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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0 | 3 (5) | 3 (5) | ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() | ||||
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5 | 3 | 6 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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2 | 2 | 2 | ![]() ![]() |
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4 (5) | 0 | 4 (5) | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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0 | 1 | 1 | ![]() |
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0 | 1 | 1 | ![]() |
![]() →includes: → ![]() → ![]() → ![]() → ![]() → ![]() → ![]() |
0 | 6 (7) | 6 (7) | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() | ||||
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0 | 6 | 6 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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3 | 3 | 3 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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8 | 0 | 8 | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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5 (6) | 3 | 6 (7) | ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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- Changes made(That I remember right now):
- Splitting the last column between Recognized Sovereign States and the the encompassing group Others
- Making the labels of countries controlling dependencies smaller
- Removing the distinction between nonmainland integral territories of countries, specifically
- Turning
Guadeloupe (An overseas region/department) into just
Frankreich
- Deleting
Azores
- Turning
- Reversing the numbers followed by numbers in brackets (eg. American Samoa"5 (3)"→"3(5)"
- Adding nonrecognized states to the "Others" section and including appropriated bracketed number
- Italicizing
Kosovo as a nonrecognized state
- Italicizing
- Changes made(That I remember right now):
- Remaining Issues + suggested solutions
- Territorial claims not considered, examples below, which may be able to be solved by explaining in the introduction that de facto situation is considered in these cases
Argentinien would say they only border 5 countries, as the consider the Falkland Islands to be theirs
- The
Republic of China would claim it borders Afghanistan etc.
- France's
French Southern and Antarctic Lands is split up. Maybe all the nonantarctic islands could be combined into one?
Argentinien and
Chile consider their antarctic territories to simply be part of their territory, so in their opinion the British Antarctic Territory (the part outside their claims) borders Argentina and Chile, not their respective territories. Could be solved by saying in the introduction all Antarctic territories are treated separately.
- In some cases, if a country borders an unrecognized country, it may not border another, due to this. An example is that
Albanien above is listed to border
Kosovo but not
Serbien. It either borders one or the other, but saying only Kosovo is a large bias. I suggest adding Serbia to the list, keeping Kosovo, removing brackets (as Kosovo or not the number of bordering states would be the same) and explaining it in small text in the column which has the total number of bordering territories.
- Territorial claims not considered, examples below, which may be able to be solved by explaining in the introduction that de facto situation is considered in these cases
- Remaining Issues + suggested solutions
Above is my suggested change through the current "A"'s. I've listed changes I remember making, down to minor ones, and also issues that might come up and proposed solutions. All the changes/problems are relevant to the whole page, not just the above section. Any thoughts? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 09:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- One concern I have is that some of the rejiggering is venturing into OR. Most of the chart information was simply taken from the 2003 source, and then OR was essentially used to update the information to include Kosovo, etc. And once this chart is altered, it then has a flow-down effect, since it is essentially derived from List of countries and territories by land borders and List of countries by maritime boundaries, which themselves were simply drawn from the sources, especially with respect to the numbers that were included. Some of the biases inherent in the sources are thus reflected in the adopted chart. Are you working from a source, or just kind of going ad hoc? But anyway, as long as you're confirming anything substantive you're changing with sources, I don't see a problem, as long as the other two articles are also changed as well (eventually) to reflect what is here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- I'm fairly sure that I can back up all the above changes with sources. Much of it is simply a reflection of other wikipedia pages. If possible, could you be more specific as to which changes exactly are moving into OR? The changes I included were all ad hoc from various different areas, not just one source. Much of what I did was just to try and WP:NPOV it slightly. Lacking any of the 4 books used to reference this page, I'm afraid I'm slightly in the dark there, but I've managed to get the google versions for the three with IBN numbers provided. I'll give them a look through. In the meantime, if you could tell me which specific changes you think need sourcing (just take it from the list I made) then I can source them. I'd be happy to make the flowbacks, given time. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 10:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Could only read 2 sources, but neither of those mention Kosovo at all. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 11:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, none of those listed do mention Kosovo, I have to say. It's entirely OR. I've had a look at your proposed changes in more detail, and I don't think there's anything specific that is of concern. I just wanted to note the issue, since I myself had ventured uncomfortably into OR with the Kosovo issue. I'm fine with what you have proposed. I agree that having a separate section for Antarctic territories could be helpful. And putting the italicised ones in their own section could help break up the length. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- The problem with Kosovo permeated throughout the whole article. Edited, and I can't believe changing all that resulted in a net change of just -21 characters O.o Chipmunkdavis (talk) 13:22, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, none of those listed do mention Kosovo, I have to say. It's entirely OR. I've had a look at your proposed changes in more detail, and I don't think there's anything specific that is of concern. I just wanted to note the issue, since I myself had ventured uncomfortably into OR with the Kosovo issue. I'm fine with what you have proposed. I agree that having a separate section for Antarctic territories could be helpful. And putting the italicised ones in their own section could help break up the length. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Inaccurate title
It isn't a List of countries and territories by land and maritime borders, it is an alphabetical list with the number of borders listed. to be a list of countries by land and maritime borders, the order would have to be determined by the number of borders. The title should be changed. Anoldtreeok (talk) 07:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Sorting the table
is not possible, the results are total gibberish! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prino (talk • contribs) 11:20, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Spratlys
Are the countries controlling one or a few of the Spratlys sharing a maritime border with each other? E.g. ROC's Itu Aba isn't far away from Vietnam's posessions around it. 218.250.143.16 (talk) 06:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Netherlands Antilles
Since 10 October 2010, the Netherlands Antilles do not exist any more – they should be replaced by either Curaçao, Sint Maarten, or the Kingdom of the Netherlands. (The computer where I am currently working is to weak to handle this huge table, so I cannot do it myself.) --131.152.41.173 (talk) 14:02, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
- Done! Regarding the maritime border between the Dominican Republic and the Dutch territories to the south, I couldn't tell how much of the border was with Aruba and how much was with Curacao. I included them both just in case, but someone should verify this if possible. --Lasunncty (talk) 12:03, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
- That is correct, both do border the Dominican Republic (see [1]). Styath (talk) 23:52, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Maritime border of the Netherlands (country)
The border of the Netherlands does not border to the one with Denmark as can be seen at this file. The Netherlands is colourd in light blue and Denmark is in Red. The EEZ of Germany (greyish black) is in between of the one of the Netherlands and Denmark. Dqfn13 (talk) 09:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
- I'd like to see a source for the boundary information on that image first. I don't know what the sources for this article say either, though. Styath (talk) 23:45, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
- The Dutch government website at [2] talks only about established maritime boundaries with Belgium, the UK and Germany, so indeed no Denmark. I'm therefore removing the Denmark-Netherlands links from the list. Styath (talk) 21:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Lists of countries and territories - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 18:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Nagorno-Karabakh
The table lists Azerbaijan as the only country bordering the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. While the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast is surrounded completely by Azerbaijan, the area claimed by the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic also borders Iran and Armenia. These should be added to the NKR's land borders. SiBr4 (talk) 22:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- It also only had Nagorno-Karabakh on the Armenia entry. I've added the various entries. CMD (talk) 06:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
El Salvador and Honduras
In one place, the article says that El Salvador and Honduras only share a maritime border. In another place, it says that they share both land and maritime borders. Obviously, both can't be factually accurate. Gringo300 (talk) 07:37, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
- ^ a b Cite error: The named reference
sovereign
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b c A number in parentheses indicates the number of unique sovereign states that the country or territory shares as neighbours.
- ^ In 1992, Abkhazia declared sovereignty from Georgia. Georgia disputes the declaration and considers Abkhazia to be part of its territory. The only sovereign states that recognize Abkhazia's sovereignty are Russia, Nicaragua, Venezuela, and Nauru. Because of the low level of international recognition, Abkhazia is not considered a sovereign state for the purposes of this list and is not included in other countries' listings of neighbouring countries and territories.
- ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m This is a territorial claim in Antarctica. Territorial claims in Antarctica have been recognized only between the few countries making claims in the area. Because some of the claims overlap and there is a low number of recognition for these claims, Antarctic territorial claims are not included in this chart when listing countries' neighbouring countries and territories. The specific Antarctic claims are included in this chart, but only in reference to each other.
- ^ a b c Cite error: The named reference
fsal
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ India borders Afghanistan only via Kashmir, a territory disputed between India and Pakistan. If Pakistan's territorial claims are accepted, India and Afghanistan do not border one another.
- ^ a b c d e This territory is not sovereign but is a British overseas territory. Its territory constitutes part of the sovereign territory of the United Kingdom but strictly speaking is not part of the United Kingdom itself.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
kosovo
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
sahara
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b This territory is not sovereign, but is an insular area of the United States. U.S. territories are considered to be part of the sovereign territory of the United States.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
cook
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
niue
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
tokelau
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b Cite error: The named reference
netherlands
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b Cite error: The named reference
foc
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b c d Claims to territory overlap.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
falkland
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
aust
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b Cite error: The named reference
newcaledonia
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ a b c The maritime boundary is in the Caspian Sea. Some consider the Caspian Sea to be a lake.