Talk:Chinese people

Ethnic minorities are Chinese citizens. They are included in the first group. When they go overseas, they become overseas Chinese. Edipedia 17:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Chinese

Sources are needed to claim that Han Chinese is refer to as ethnic Chinese. I think it's just POV. If people in the West put a Han in front of Chinese, then there must be other ethnic Chinese. Otherwise why bother to put a Han in front of Chinese. Many people in the West, they don't even distinguish among Asians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edipedia (talk • contribs) 2006-08-01 (UTC)

You need to sign your comments. People put "Han" in front of "Chinese" sometimes because the English word "Chinese" is ambiguous in terms of ethnicity and nationality. "Chinese" is often used to refer to the Han. --- Hong Qi Gong 20:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Need to provide source. Edipedia 20:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Here [1]. Notice that only the Han is referred to as "Han Chinese". It doesn't say "Hui Chinese", "Zhuang Chinese", "Yi Chinese", etc etc. --- Hong Qi Gong 20:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Han refers to Han Chinese. But it doesn't mean Chinese is Han Chinese. You have a logic problem. Edipedia 20:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Please remain civil. Han is one of many ethnicities that make up "Chinese". Chinese refers to citizens of the country China. Han, Hui, Tibetian etc... are races within China. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 22:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Edipedia - the problem is that in English, "Chinese" is often used to mean Han Chinese. That's why Han Chinese should be mentioned in this disambiguous page. --- Hong Qi Gong 23:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, which is supposed to tell people the right thing, not to reinforce wrong opinions Editor 1 18:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Asian

Many people in the West, they don't even distinguish among Asians. All the people from Asian are ethnic Asian, including Chinese, Philopinos, Laos, etc. Chinese is Asian, but Asian is not only refer to Chinese. The same thing is true for Ethnic Chinese. Han Chinese is ethnic Chinese, but ethnic Chinese doesn't mean Han Chinese. Edipedia 20:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm well aware of that. However, many Westerners are not aware of this. That's why this ambiguous page is needed. --- Hong Qi Gong 20:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm in no way want to remove this article. Instead, I'll suggest expand this article like American people. Edipedia 20:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

No, but you want to remove the reference to Han Chinese. Well, I'm aware that "Chinese" doesn't only refer to Han Chinese. You're aware of the same thing. But a lot of Westerners do not know that. That's why Han Chinese needs to be mentioned. --- Hong Qi Gong 20:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, which is supposed to tell people the right thing, not to reinforce wrong opinions Editor 1 18:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion of what is the right thing and what isn't is not relevant.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 18:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It is relevant because you want to remove minorties from Chinese ethnic. Editor 1 18:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

No it's irrelevant because Wikipedia is not a vehicle for your opinion, but is supposed to contain verifiable facts. Please see WP:V.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 19:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You're being ridiculous. The fact is that all Chinese people are generally considered ethnic Chinese in the West, not just Han Chinese. You're the one expressing personal opinions here. Editor 1 19:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, an encyclopedia is not supposed to tell people what is "right" information. It's just supposed to reflect the available information out there. --- Hong Qi Gong 19:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic White

The available information is that many people in the West either think Chinese people is one ethnic group or sometimes they don't distinquish among them for the sake of simplification, because there are too many ethnic groups. There is also "Ethnic White" in English language. It doesn't only refer to British. French, German, Italians, Romanians, etc are all whites, but they are actully different. Whites, Asians....these words are just general terms people use for simplification reasons. The same thing is true for "Ethnic Chinese", which includes all Chinese people for the sake of simplification. Of course, if people want to go further, they will use Han Chinese, Manchus, Huis, etc. Editor 1 20:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that people sometimes use the phrase "Chinese people" to refer to Hans specifically. Do you have some evidence that this is not so? Do you have some reason to deduce that it is probably not true?—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 20:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

This is just common sense. How about you provide evidence that says people in the West use Chinese only for Han Chinese. At least, you can't say what I said is not true. Editor 1 21:01, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Like I say, I think that people sometimes use the phrase "Chinese people" to refer to Hans specifically. That means, naturally, that I disagree with your idea of common sense in this matter. To the best of my knowledge, you have no evidence disproving this, nor have you provided any logic which makes it implausible. This is a disambiguation page, so it should link to whatever the reader might be trying to find. There's no need for redundancy.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 22:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Editor 1. Chinese people are Chinese and of ethnic Chinese. The article obviously says that Chinese minorities are Chinese people. How can they not to be Chinese or ethnic Chinese when living outside China. Unlike minorities in the US or UK, Chinese minorities are abriginal people. Together with the Hans, they represent the Chinese people. As you knowm there are 56 ethnic groups in China. It is not reasonable to for people to seperate them from the Hans in most circumstances. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yepre (talk • contribs) 2006-08-30 13:04:20.

Well, you don't think it's reasonable, which doesn't seem like a major conflict, since the article does not say "Only Hans are Chinese people". In fact, the first two options given are 1) any citizen of the PRC or the ROC; and 2) any member of the Zhonghua minzu. Han people specifically are only mentioned as a third possibility. This is what a disambiguation page—such as this one—is supposed to do.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 17:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

In that case, it is fine for Editor 1 to add other non-Han ethnics to the "third possiblility". What do you fight for?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yepre (talk • contribs) .

No, the other ethnicities are covered quite clearly in the first two bullet points. The third is intended to refer specifically to Han people, and there's no need to redundantly mention Chinese minorities.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 17:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

No, the Hans are clearly covered in the first two bullets. We're talking about ethnic Chinese here. Hans and non-Hans are all ethnic Chinese. There is no redundancy.—User:Yepre

All of the ethnic groups of China, including the Hans and the others, are described by the first two bullet points. "The Chinese nation (Zhonghua minzu), a supra-ethnic concept which includes the Han Chinese and other established ethnic groups who have lived within the borders of China since at least the Qing Dynasty". There's no need to repeat "Hans and others" in the third bullet point, which is intended to refer to the Hans specifically.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 18:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

One can easily see that the third paragraph is different from the first two. It deals with the ethnic of overseas Chinese. Overseas Hans and non-Hans are all of ethnic Chinese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yepre (talk • contribs) 2006-08-30T14:19:25 (UTC)

I had no idea that was what you meant. By the way, Edipedia's version of that sentence doesn't make sense: "A person of Han Chinese or other Chinese ethnic minorities ancestry is often simply referred to as Chinese or ethnic Chinese in Western countries. This includes most overseas Chinese." This says that "Han Chinese or other Chinese ethnic minorities ancestry" includes most overseas Chinese. Which Overseas Chinese are not included?

Anyway, my opinion is that the third bullet point is supposed to be about the Han Chinese. The mention of Overseas Chinese is an additional fact (and it's not completely coherent in either version).—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 18:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC) PS - please sign your posts with ~~~~

Most non-Han Chinese people who live outside China are also simply referred as Chinese or ethnic Chinese in Western countries.

Sorry, but until westerners start commonly referring to all the ethnic minorities in China as "Chinese", this is just not an acceptable addition. We're talking about the Russian ethnic minorities for example, or the Tibetans, or the Uyghurs, etc etc. I support including a link to Zhonghua Minzu, but this claim is just far-fetched. --- Hong Qi Gong 19:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

There is a "most" in front of non-Han Chinese. I'm not saying all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yepre (talk • contribs) 2006-08-30 15:04:49 (UTC)

That's a far-fetched claim, too. You and I both know that the term "Chinese" is ambiguous. But most Westerners do not, and use the term mainly to refer to Han Chinese. --- Hong Qi Gong 19:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

That's just not right. There are a lot of non-Han Chinese ethnics whithin China proper. Yepre 19:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion of what is the right thing and what isn't is not relevant.—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 18:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You're right, Yepre (or should I say Edipedia), and that's why the first bullet mentions Chinese citizenship, and the second bullet mentions Zhonghua Minzu. Hey, I personally wish the term was not ambiguous myself. But that's just not reality. When most Westerners say "Chinese" in English, they are referring to the Han Chinese, as in the people as well as the culture and the civilisation. I don't necessarily like that, but that's just how it is. It's basically the same as when a Chinese person say 美國人, he is thinking of a white guy with blonde hair. --- Hong Qi Gong 19:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

This is just wrong. Yepre 17:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)