Talk:Mary Hopkin

Cleanup

I've been working on this article with help from temmaharbour... right now it'd be great to arrange it into categories, perhaps move the single/album release information to a chart, and verify the information overall.--Marysunshine 04:01, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

The Beatles' miscellanea

Check The Beatles' miscellanea to see if there is anything in it you can use. A lot of 'miscellanea' needs to be trimmed (as linked articles are improved) so please feel free to use anything before certain sections get zapped into the ether... ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde 16:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

really "born [...] to a Welsh-speaking family" ?

According to a documentary clip on YouTube (www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYSAxOscF78) in which she is the only person talking English (and not Welsh), her teacher's son says about Mary's Welsh when she entered his father's school: "Mary was a borderline case. She had a smattering of Welsh, but she was put in the Welsh stream." Does that mean that she was not "born [...] to a Welsh-speaking family" as indicated in the article? Or was there much more English spoken than Welsh and became she fluent in Welsh only in school? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.88.42.41 (talk) 15:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Your edit to "Wikipedia:Citing sources"

[Copied from User talk:Jacklee]

Hi, Sorry what did I write that you do not agree with as I cannot find anything that has been reverted? temmaharbour

You recently left a message on my talk page asking me "Hi, Sorry what did I write that you do not agree with as I cannot find anything that has been reverted? temmaharbour". I had a look, and this relates to a change that you made to the guideline "Wikipedia:Citing sources" about a year ago, on 27 June 2008 [1]. For some unexplained reason, you inserted the sentence "Permitted use from www.maryhopkin.co.uk" in the section "General references versus inline citations". I suspect this was a mistake on your part, so I left a message on your talk page pointing it out. — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 07:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Temmaharbour"

To JackLee From temmaharbour No this was not a mistake I was providing information which I thought was needed after I had made an alteration

"WHy would you suspect this was a mistake on my part"? this is why I wrote asking you what had been reverted you still have not told me? THis is a long time ago how would I remember THis is why I hate using this site as it is so confusing I check in on Mary's page only as it is the only page I am interested in. So much rubbish is written on her page and it needs to be policed by someone who at least has the facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Temmaharbour (talk • contribs) 23:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Temmaharbour. As I explained, what I reverted was your insertion of the sentence "Permitted use from www.maryhopkin.co.uk" into the guideline "Wikipedia:Citing sources". There is absolutely no reason why that sentence should be in the guideline, so I'm afraid it was most certainly a mistake on your part, although it was probably done by accident rather than deliberately. If you were trying to add a reference into the article "Mary Hopkin" you should have done it on that page and not at "Wikipedia:Citing sources". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 10:34, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

this is what I think happened back then... someone had taken the picture of Mary Hopkin from the page so I undid the change and put the picture back up, giving the ref of Mary's website as permission to use the picture. this whole wiki site is a complete bureaucratic waste of time. If there were not so many 'idiots' vandalising the page with sick comments I wouldnt bother visiting it to make changes.. I cannot be botherd with all this —Preceding unsigned comment added by Temmaharbour (talk • contribs) 00:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what happened a year ago at the "Mary Hopkin" article. It might have been that the photograph of Hopkin was removed because of vandalism. On the other hand, it could also have been removed because the image had not been freely licensed for use on Wikipedia. This is not a "bureaucratic waste of time". Wikipedia respects people's copyright; an editor cannot simply take an image from another website and use it in Wikipedia. Merely saying that the image was taken from Mary's website is not enough. There has to be some evidence that the owner of the image allows it to be freely used on other websites for any purpose, including commercial purposes. Look at it this way – if you had taken photographs and put them on your personal website or on a photo-sharing site such as Flickr, would you be happy if other people downloaded them and used them for their own purposes without your permission? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 06:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Look we are going round and round in circles... What you have just said above I know and understand... any stupid vandalism on the Hopkin page I will delete and any new CD releases I will update... if you want to check the spelling and grammar fine... But the rest is ridiculous.. Where did I say that I had TAKEN the picture from her website? I never said that. I asked if it was ok to use the picture and they said yes!

How on Earth can I PROVE something to you even after I have asked permission from the artiste herself ... I am at a loss... a total loss... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Temmaharbour (talk • contribs) 00:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Look, please don't vent your anger on me. I wasn't the editor who removed the photograph from the article. In fact, I have never edited the "Mary Hopkins" article. I only reverted your insertion of an irrelevant (probably mistaken) sentence into the "Wikipedia:Citing sources" guideline. In my recent message, I merely suggested that the photograph might have been removed from "Mary Hopkins" by someone else because it didn't comply with Wikipedia's rules. I'm just trying to explain what might have happened – I don't actually know what happened at the time.

In order for an image – especially an image of a living person – that wasn't taken by you (for example, an image scanned from a book or taken from a website) to be used in a Wikipedia article, the copyright owner needs to consent to licensing the image to Wikipedia under a free license such as the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) or a Creative Commons Attribution (CC-BY) or Attribution-ShareAlike (CC-BY-SA) licence. What you need to do is to send an e-mail to the copyright owner such as the following:

Dear Sirs/Mesdames,

I am one of the many volunteer editors of Wikipedia, and understand that you represent [Name]. I would very much like to use a photograph of him in the Wikipedia article "[Name of article]", which I have been updating recently. In order to do so legally, I need to obtain a photograph that has been licensed by its copyright owner for use on Wikipedia and its sister projects under a free licence such as the GNU Free Documentation License. Other acceptable free licences are the Creative Commons Attribution (CC-BY) and Attribution-Sharealike (CC-BY-SA) licences. (Click on the links for more information about those licences.) Do note that by agreeing to license the image, the copyright owner is agreeing to the conditions set out at the end of this e-mail.

I would therefore be grateful if you are able to provide me with a suitable photograph, and if you can confirm that you (as the copyright owner yourself or on behalf of the copyright owner) are agreeable to licensing the image to Wikipedia on the terms stated in this e-mail. While high-quality images are of course preferred, a smaller low-resolution image is also welcome.

If you are unable to provide a photograph, I would also be grateful if you could refer me to some person or organization that might be able to.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,
[Your name]

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• The copyright owner acknowledges that it cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the image may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project.

The copyright owner must agree to license the image on a GFDL, a CC licence or both, and to accept the above conditions in full. If he or she does not, for example, by stating that the image can only be used for non-commercial purposes or cannot be modified, then the image cannot be used on Wikipedia.

If the copyright owner is agreeable to the conditions, then he or she should reply to your e-mail stating this clearly. (An e-mail saying something like "Go ahead and use the photo" may not be clear enough.) You should then upload the image on to the Wikimedia Commons, and add an "OTRS pending" tag to the image description page. Then forward your e-mail conversation with the copyright owner to [email protected], notifying the recipient of the name of the file you have uploaded. The e-mail will enter the Wikipedia Open-source Ticket Request System (OTRS). A volunteer will then read the e-mail conversation and verify that the copyright owner has properly licensed the image to Wikipedia, then update the image description page with an "OTRS" tag. You can then use the image freely in Wikipedia articles. For more information, see "Commons:Email templates", "Commons:Licensing" and "Commons:OTRS". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

No album articles?

Is there any particular reason why Hopkins' albums apparently have no articles? There are certainly many less notable albums with articles, and in fact Hopkins is one of the only artists listed at Apple Records discography not to have individual articles on each of her albums. At the very least Postcard rates one. 70.72.211.35 (talk) 22:11, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Mary Hopkin in the Land of...

An IP editor has recently added extensive material on the TV series Mary Hopkin in the Land of.... I did some tidying-up and removed the transmission times. An IP editor reverted most of my edits. They were restored by an IP editor, removed again by Arjayay, and added for a third time by an IP editor.

However, I think the problems with this content go beyond the inclusion of transmission times. I do not dispute that the material is accurate and well-sourced. The problem is that it does not merit inclusion in this article. WP:NOTEVERYTHING says

• "Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. A Wikipedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject."

This article is about Mary Hopkin, who is principally known as a singer. We should mention that she has also been a TV presenter, but listing the details of these programmes gives such undue prominence that it gives a misleading impression of her career, see WP:WEIGHT.

The inclusion of large numbers of names of people without articles is also an issue. These names are of little interest to readers and add nothing useful to the article.

Much of this material might be put in a separate article about this TV series, however I suspect that the series is insufficiently notable for an article. It might be useful to post it to Wikidata.

In my view, we should summarise this TV series in one paragraph. I propose a section, as follows:

Television In 1970 Hopkin hosted and performed in a series of six thirty-minute programs on BBC1 television, titled Mary Hopkin in the Land of.... The programs were devised by Eric Merriman and explored fantasy subjects using music and dancing. References

I think that is all that merits mentioning in this article. I have used these URLs as they show the episodes were 30 minutes long. I am wary of citing the self-published source, but this one looks reasonable and adds useful background.

I will make this edit following the Wikipedia:BOLD editing guideline. Please do not treat this as an aggressive action, I am partly doing this so that there is a single edit that on which other editors can take a view if it becomes necessary to widen the discussion.

Please discuss the issue here, preferably basing your arguments on Wikipedia policies, guidelines and conventions. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:34, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I have made this change, with a slightly different text, incorporating the last paragraph of the preceding section. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:52, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I fundamentally disagree and certainly view your edits as extremely aggressive and indeed hostile; and thus have restored the edits that you removed as the series is worthy of detail. Check out all the pages relating to the TV series of Kathy Kirby, Sandie Shaw, Cilla Black, Shirley Bassey, Cliff Richard etc etc etc, all of which detail their BBC series. The series is worthy of detail for Hopkin's career, just as it is for the other artists named and many others on wikipedia. 50.247.98.197 (talk) 01:48, 6 June 2018 (UTC)