Talk:Peja

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Change the name to Peja

The user who keeps changing the name back to the less used Serbian version shows strong political influence and refuses to follow the policies of Wikipedia of not spreading false news towards helping propaganda. Searching Peja + Kosovo in google and google scholar shows more results than the Serbian version. All the documents released from the country of Kosovo in the English version refer to it as Peja, which brings down the argument that Peja is referred otherwise on English. Please change the name back to Peja and stop with this stupid political propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.22.59.2 (talk) 13:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 18 August 2020

• Peć → Peja
• Peja → Peja (disambiguation)

– Hi. I have never edited on Wikipedia, so excuse any lack of familiarity with the common practices in place in this community. I take note of the previous arguments against changing the name of this page, which hinge on the claim that Peć is more common in English usage. Some users have used Google results to claim this, however this seems to produce inconclusive results, sometimes skewing to one side, sometimes to another.

In any case, it seems to me there are at least six good reasons to change the page name to Peja.

1) All other major cities in Kosovo are titled by their Albanian names, except Pristina. Gjakova, Ferizaj, Gjilan are in Albanian. Of course, Peć sees more English usage than Đakovica, Uroševac and Gnjilane, which is an argument against this reasoning. However, one should consider the matter of naming consistency across the territory of Kosovo.

2) The municipal government English language website, as well as documents issued from the municipality in English, all call the city either Pejë or Peja, and the Municipality either the Municipality of Pejë or the Municipality of Peja. As the article states, it is about the municipality. Municipal website: https://kk.rks-gov.net/peje/en/. Example document issued by the municipality https://kk.rks-gov.net/peje/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2020/08/B05-Njoftim-per-Kontrat-2-1-1-1.pdf. (See p. 2, which refers to the "Municipality of Peja".) I realize some have argued that official names do not constitute common usage. However, since there is no clear consensus, for example in Google results, as to which name is more commonly used in English, it makes more sense to take official names into account, as well as common practice with other Kosovar cities.

3) As many have pointed out, the use of diacritics is not preferred by English speakers. This has the effect that if one searches "Pec" (without the ć), one is referred to a disambiguation page. Same goes for "Pejë", "Peje" or "Peja". Therefore, for English speakers (who presumably do not have access to the letter ć or ë on their keyboards, all possible spellings currently lead to a disambiguation page. This could be confusing to many users, and is clearly not desirable. To avoid this, Peja is the most neutral and easily typed English spelling.

4) For what it's worth, most tourist websites and tourist materials for the city, seem to refer to it as Peja.

5) Some have argued that since the Germany page is not titled Deutschland, and the Belgrade is not titled Beograd, then this page should also not be called Peja, just because it is official. However the first example, Germany, is a native English exonym for the country, and is not comparable to Peć, which is the Serbian name for the city, adopted into English after the Balkan Wars. Prior to this the English name was based on the Turkish name for the city, Ipek.. As for Belgrade, this name has been in English usage and is undisputed, while the case of Peja/Pejë v. Peć is both disputed and there is no clear preference in English usage. Therefore, the argument that official usage (in English language municipal documents, for example) is irrelevant, is strange. Notwithstanding the usage of Pejë/Peja by, as an example, Britannica , because there is no clear English language preference, the official usage of the municipality (which this page is about) should be considered, and would be most neutral.

6) It is used, for example, by the Encyclopædia Britannica, which on the naming convention page, is listed as a sources for "widely accepted names".

References

– Best regards. Leokr (talk) 14:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
• Comment whatever the consensus is here, it should probably be extended to District of Peć as well to remain consistent.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:16, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose This question was discussed in details not that long ago. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 22:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support per detailed nomination and per convincing references. This request concerns a location that does not have an English exonym (thus leaving English speakers with either the Serbian name, Peć [with a Serbian diacritic, which would only be intuitive to use for a place with a Serbian-speaking population] or the Albanian name, Peja [without a diacritic]), in an Albanian-speaking entity which is recognized by 101 UN members, including the entire English-speaking world (List of states with limited recognition). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:46, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Google Trends clearly demonstrates that Pec (without the diacritic, including in Serbia) has been most commonly used globally from as far back as 2004, outpacing Peja by a factor of 8 to 1. [1] In the United States, Pec is more commonly used by a factor of 7 to 1. [2] We have a similar situation in the UK. [3] If broken down by region, Pec is used more often in all the Western countries. The only country where Peja is used more frequently is Poland (not an English-speaking country). [4]

It is important to note that the Peja results are artificially inflated by mentions of the basketball player Peja Stojaković. Otherwise, they would be even lower than they are. There are two villages in the Czech Republic, both with around 300 inhabitants, called Peč and Pec. Given their small size, I doubt they have seriously affected global trends in favour of Pec over the past 16 years. Going by WP:COMMONNAME, this renaming proposal is baseless. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 03:06, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Per above and WP:COMMONNAME StellarHalo (talk) 05:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@Amanuensis Balkanicus. The Google Trends reference is both inconclusive and misleading. Pec (w/o) diacritic leads to thousands of companies and organizations around the world, for example the Pakistani Engineering Coorporation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEC. Since Google statistics are inconclusive, and do not constitute common use by reputable sources, it is non-productive to reference them here.

If you add the diacritic, the results are much lower. But this does not mean it argues for changing the name of the Wikipedia page, since Google results are inconclusive and difficult to interpret. Please reference and see my above arguments instead.

Thank you. Leokr (talk) 04:50, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Support per WP:COMMONNAME. On Google scholar: Peja+Kosovo 2,940 results Peć+Kosovo 1,940 results

But what should be established here is what is the name used in everyday life (what the COMMONNAME policy tries reflect) if you have any sort of activity that is related to this town. In practice, every travel guide, hotel booking service and any other service uses Peja/Pejë for this town. If even Brittanica with its very slow methodology of adaptation to changes in the real world has opted for Pejë (the indefinite form of Peja), I'm sure that wikipedia can finally to Peja (as over 95% of its citizens call their town). Despite !vote attempts to keep a status quo that is far removed from real life, wikipedia has moved to Gjakova (instead of Đakovica), Ferizaj (instead of Uroševac), Gjilan (instead of Gnjilane) for the same reasons. Time to do the same here.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 14:52 PM 19 August 2020(UTC)

• Oppose, not again with this nonsense. A unsuccessful move request was closed exactly a year ago. Also, the OP, Leokr (talk · contribs) only has 5 contribs [5], all form August 18, though the account was created in 2017. Almost certainly a sleeper account of one of the many banned users in this topic area. Needs looking into. Khirurg (talk) 16:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Khirurg (talk · contribs). Did you have an argument against this? I did see the move request from 2019, but I did not feel that the closing reasoning was very thought out, so I wanted to bring this up for discussion again. As for my account history, I made this account in 2017 to add a custom font to my Wikipedia layout, to experiment with the UI. Although I have not contributed, I do not see what the problem is. My arguments for the move are sincere and written in a civil tone. It is impertinent to show such a lack of good faith in the argument's of others. I hope that whoever closes this request will consider whether the opposition brings any new and/or convincing argument to light, and that opponents are reviewing the case somewhat impartially. We are not trying to find out which English name for the city is more palatable for Serbs or Albanians, but what will be more useful and intuitive for English speakers.

Best regards. Leokr (talk) 16:47 PM 19 August 2020(UTC)

• Support - I have yet to come across a convincing argument why it should remain as Peć. On the basis of the inconclusive Google results, as Leokr (talk · contribs) proposes, our main priority should indeed be finding the most convenient, reasonable name. Therefore, coupled with the recent changes of Đakovica to Gjakova, Gnjilane to Gjilan, and others as mentioned, it only seems logical to change Peć as as well. Although Peć may not be falling out of use, this is not to say it is still the most fitting. User:ArbDardh (talk) 17:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
• Support per ArbDardh's rationale. N.Hoxha (talk) 20:18, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Side comment: if you remove the results that are about the Patriarchate of Peć, the gap in modern use between Peja/Pejë and Peć/Pec increases even more. That's a very normal phenomenon and should not be politicized as sadly happens usually. Name use reflects the conditions of its time. Wikipedia should at the very least be as close to the movement of time as Brittanica, a tertiary source which has minimal input from outside editors. --Maleschreiber (talk) 22:19, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support - honestly, uses of "Pec" and "Peja" in English are both inflated by things like "check out my pec muscles" and "I hated Peja when he played in Sacramento". So the proposer's rationale holds. Red Slash 03:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Per arguments given by Amanuensis Balkanicus. --Soundwaweserb (talk) 10:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per previous arguments and discussions. You shouldn't change name of the city just because its name is traditionally Serbian. — Вукан Ц (talk) 10:52, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Side comment this account !voted here in its 12th edit just 10 minutes after another account that is not particularly active in English wikipedia. It's obvious what is happening and will keep happening but these accounts should know that "its name is traditionally Serbian" is not an argument or policy in wikipedia and with such actions they're only showing how necessary it is for the whole community to be involved in order to stop these attempts and allow the community to decide freely.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:04, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support I see no reason why this city should be called Peć. If Peja is an official name of the city then we must respect that. Mikola22 (talk) 12:32, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Sadko. --FriedrickMILBarbarossa (talk) 13:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)