Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shahid Buttar (4th nomination): Difference between revisions
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*'''Delete''' and '''Merge''' content to [[2020 United States House of Representatives elections in California#District 12]]. Per {{u|SportingFlyer}} above. Losing candidates do not meet [[WP:NPOL]], sustained coverage ended post-election, unlikely to pass [[WP:10YT]]. If you want to keep the information about the candidate, help improve the existing article about the congressional race. [[User:Bkissin|Bkissin]] ([[User talk:Bkissin|talk]]) 18:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC) |
*'''Delete''' and '''Merge''' content to [[2020 United States House of Representatives elections in California#District 12]]. Per {{u|SportingFlyer}} above. Losing candidates do not meet [[WP:NPOL]], sustained coverage ended post-election, unlikely to pass [[WP:10YT]]. If you want to keep the information about the candidate, help improve the existing article about the congressional race. [[User:Bkissin|Bkissin]] ([[User talk:Bkissin|talk]]) 18:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete.''' Buttar's campaign's [https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00670463/1452343/sb/ALL October 2020 Quarterly FEC filing] includes an disbursement of $7,000 to The Jonathan Rick Group, LLC and "Wikipedia article" is listed as the purpose. On the Jonathan Rick Group's website, under services, there is [http://jonathanrick.com/what-we-do/wikipedia-is-wonderful-but-weird-let-us-help-you-navigate-it/ a page that details Wikipedia article ghost-writing services]. It would seem that at least some of the interest in recreating this previously deleted article is not organic and appears to have been paid for with campaign funds and therefore was potentially solicited—or at least approved—by Buttar himself.--[[User:Kx253|Kx253]] ([[User talk:Kx253|talk]]) 03:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC) |
*'''Delete.''' Buttar's campaign's [https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00670463/1452343/sb/ALL October 2020 Quarterly FEC filing] includes an disbursement of $7,000 to The Jonathan Rick Group, LLC and "Wikipedia article" is listed as the purpose. On the Jonathan Rick Group's website, under services, there is [http://jonathanrick.com/what-we-do/wikipedia-is-wonderful-but-weird-let-us-help-you-navigate-it/ a page that details Wikipedia article ghost-writing services]. It would seem that at least some of the interest in recreating this previously deleted article is not organic and appears to have been paid for with campaign funds and therefore was potentially solicited—or at least approved—by Buttar himself.--[[User:Kx253|Kx253]] ([[User talk:Kx253|talk]]) 03:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC) |
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:* If you're suggesting that I was paid to restore Buttar's article, I'm afraid to say that I have never seen a cent for any the hours I've toiled for this website, editing or programming, since I made this account in 2009. This is not by choice, believe me; I offered to the WMF my two hands and the fire of passion multiple times over the |
:* If you're suggesting that I was paid to restore Buttar's article, I'm afraid to say that I have never seen a cent for any the hours I've toiled for this website, editing or programming, since I made this account in 2009. This is not by choice, believe me; I offered to the WMF my two hands and the fire of passion multiple times over the years, but they always turned me away! Working for no pay, unfortunately, does not put food on the table, so to me, Wikipedia remains the hobby it always had been. <span style="font-family:Euclid Fraktur;background:#FFF">→[[User:Σ|<span style="color:#B00">Σ</span>]][[User talk:Σ|<span style="color:#036">σ</span>]][[Special:Contribs/Σ|<span style="color:#036">ς</span>]]. <small>([[User:Σ|Sigma]])</small></span> 10:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC) |
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<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /> |
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /> |
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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 10:02, 21 November 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --><noinclude>[[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Shahid Buttar (4th nomination)]]</noinclude></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line --> |
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 10:02, 21 November 2020 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --><noinclude>[[Category:Relisted AfD debates|Shahid Buttar (4th nomination)]]</noinclude></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line --> |
Revision as of 10:16, 24 November 2020
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- Shahid Buttar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Shahid Buttar has received an consistently abnormally high amount of media coverage compared to the routine news cycle, about his campaign for CA-12. Sources have consistently highlighted the fact that Buttar is the first Democrat to run against Pelosi in her 30-year career, challenging her from the left, not the right.
The news coverage about Buttar's campaign is fairly consistent in emphasising this. Additional, more recent sources, from after the previous AfD in April 2020, have reported on Buttar's campaign for this fact. They have also reported on some controversial allegations made against his campaign, also after the previous AfD.
The Theresa Greenfield case interpreted our notability guidelines so that an individual outsider electoral candidate can be notable as long as their candidacy meets the GNG, even if that's the only notable thing they have. I have opened this discussion to determine whether Buttar is notable as well, for the same reasons.
Is Shahid Buttar notable, based on more recent media coverage as well as how our notability guidelines have been interpreted to account for not-yet elected candidates running "interesting" (for lack of a better word) political campaigns?
Are there any stipulations that restrict the scope of the Greenfield decision? (e.g. federal office vs. state level or local office)
→Σσς. (Sigma) 12:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, repeating the statements I made in the last AfD, Buttar has clearly received an exceptional level of coverage for multiple different reasons, receiving national coverage over a period of many months, which your average congressional candidate just does not have, meaning that he clearly passes WP:MILL. Examples of this coverage includes [1], [2], [3], [4], etc. Devonian Wombat (talk) 12:29, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete Not every candidate that runs in an election becomes automatically notable for receiving routine election coverage. Delete again per WP:NPOL. KidAd talk 18:16, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 18:24, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 18:24, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 18:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - From previous discussions I've had about this guy, it's clear to me that his "candidacy meets the GNG". I'm personally a deletionist, so I understand the desire not to make pages for anyone who's ever run for political office. That said, there are going to be examples where a non-notable person runs a clearly notable campaign. What do we do in that case? Seems clunky to make a "Candidacy of X" page. Might as well just make a page for the person. NickCT (talk) 21:07, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Just wanted to say that Buttar has lost again. It was not close. (NYT). KidAd talk 05:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Merge He's not notable apart from the campaign, and he's only notable because he challenged a prominent lawmaker. The article is small enough I don't see any reason why we can't merge and redirect to 2020 United States House of Representatives elections in California, since we don't normally keep articles for losing candidates per WP:BLP1E/WP:NOTNEWS/the time-honoured idea many losing candidates slink back to private life pretty quickly. The article isn't that long, and we can properly cover him in the context of the election on that page without losing any important information, but I don't think he's notable enough for a standalone article by a wide margin. SportingFlyer T·C 13:21, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Also, a couple of the keep !votes above notes (explicitly or implicitly) that the "candidacy meets the GNG" - if that's considered a notable campaign, and it probably would be, an alternative option would be to create a new page on the race between him and Pelosi, and redirect it there until he does something else notable. My specific issue here is that he is not a notable individual at this time but I have no qualms with covering the notable event he was associated with. SportingFlyer T·C 13:26, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- @SportingFlyer: - re "create a new page on the race" - I think that's fair. But what do we call that page? NickCT (talk) 14:41, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Something akin to "2020 California 12th district election." SportingFlyer T·C 14:48, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I'd support rename to 2020 California 12th district election. That said, this still strikes me as a slightly clunky solution, b/c we'll end up with a page that is nominally about the district election, but is actually about Buttar. NickCT (talk) 05:13, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Ideally, it'd be merged with the information at the page I proposed for the merge and then forked instead of renamed, but there are attribution issues with moving/renaming/et cetera so there be a "more correct" procedure. SportingFlyer T·C 11:17, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I'd support rename to 2020 California 12th district election. That said, this still strikes me as a slightly clunky solution, b/c we'll end up with a page that is nominally about the district election, but is actually about Buttar. NickCT (talk) 05:13, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Something akin to "2020 California 12th district election." SportingFlyer T·C 14:48, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Seriously modify if Keep I'm an inclusionist, and lean toward keeping pages like this. However, the page is heavily biased toward Buttar, and was very likely set up by one of his supporters. For example, the sexual harassment claims against him represented a substantial impediment to his campaign, yet are addressed as though they were a random uncorroborated blip; similar allegations of misogyny are not given attention. I lean toward including major candidates, and Buttar has won twice, but the article needs to have its bias removed. PickleG13 (talk) 09:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
- Keep - I believe I've satisfied the criteria for Buttar's notability separate and apart from his runs for office (even though the section I added on "media," with extensive links to his media interviews and op-eds, was deleted). I'm happy to add a section for the boards of directors of nonprofits he's served on. I've also tried to remove the bias, though I'd welcome additional thoughts on the harassment claims. (With respect to the latter, this seems like an important citation: https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1295856245115682816.) Thank you. User:sdi-jr (User talk:sdi-jr) 08:14, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 07:17, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete and SALT Plenty of cited sources, but they're only tangentially about the subject or about the election rather than the candidate. Also please SALT the article if deleted for the fourth time. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:54, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- He's not notable outside the campaign. So the solution is to move the page to 2020 California 12th district election—a notable event outside the other California elections—as suggested above and rewrite to be about the election. The redirect should then be fully protected to ward off disruption. (t · c) buidhe 21:35, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete and Merge content to 2020 United States House of Representatives elections in California#District 12. Per SportingFlyer above. Losing candidates do not meet WP:NPOL, sustained coverage ended post-election, unlikely to pass WP:10YT. If you want to keep the information about the candidate, help improve the existing article about the congressional race. Bkissin (talk) 18:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
- Delete. Buttar's campaign's October 2020 Quarterly FEC filing includes an disbursement of $7,000 to The Jonathan Rick Group, LLC and "Wikipedia article" is listed as the purpose. On the Jonathan Rick Group's website, under services, there is a page that details Wikipedia article ghost-writing services. It would seem that at least some of the interest in recreating this previously deleted article is not organic and appears to have been paid for with campaign funds and therefore was potentially solicited—or at least approved—by Buttar himself.--Kx253 (talk) 03:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- If you're suggesting that I was paid to restore Buttar's article, I'm afraid to say that I have never seen a cent for any the hours I've toiled for this website, editing or programming, since I made this account in 2009. This is not by choice, believe me; I offered to the WMF my two hands and the fire of passion multiple times over the years, but they always turned me away! Working for no pay, unfortunately, does not put food on the table, so to me, Wikipedia remains the hobby it always had been. →Σσς. (Sigma) 10:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:02, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- I want to bring attention to the argument I made on the talk page that considers Shahid Buttar's campaign in the same light as Theresa Greenfield. The details are a bit of a mouthful so I'll collapse them. But in summary, here are my findings:
- Buttar's performance in the 2018 election is entirely irrelevant to the election in 2020.
- Buttar's coverage is not routine election coverage. The point isn't that Buttar won the primary, it's that he did so by challenging Pelosi from the left, not the right.
- Buttar passes the ten-year test regardless of the result of the 2020 election as a figure as part of a social movement.
My explanation copied from the talk page
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- In addition, here's a question to those who point to Buttar's loss as a justification to delete: should Theresa Greenfield's article be deleted for the same reason? If so, then there's a free opportunity to put the article up for AfD. →Σσς. (Sigma) 10:15, 24 November 2020 (UTC)