Baggy: Difference between revisions

Baggy
Baggy
Stylistic origins	Madchester; neo-psychedelia; acid house;
Cultural origins	Late 1980s – 1990s; Manchester, United Kingdom
Derivative forms	Britpop
Local scenes
	Manchester;

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Baggy was a name given to a British indie-dance genre popular in the late 1980s and early 1990s,^[1]^[2]^[3] with many of the artists referred to as "baggy" being bands from the Madchester scene.^[4]

History

The genesis of indie-dance was the Balearic beat scene (where you would find DJs playing an eclectic mix of records including such rock/dance crossovers like "Jesus on the Payroll" by Thrashing Doves^[5] and producers like Paul Oakenfold^[6]) and the indie music scene in the north west of England, which featured Tony Wilson's Factory Records and former goth band the Stone Roses^[7] in Manchester.

Even though they were not signed to Factory Records, instead signing to Paul Birch's Revolver Records in Wolverhampton^[8]^[9]^[10] (before taking a deal with Jive Records' Silvertone), the band did have links to Tony Wilson, Martin Hannett^[11] and Peter Hook, with the New Order bassist scheduled to produce their debut album, before John Leckie took over.

It was Leckie who produced the Stone Roses single "Fools Gold" (an indie-dance record which had a prominant 'shufflebeat'^[12]^[13]^[14] which came from a four-bar loop based upon Clyde Stubblefield's "Funky Drummer" drum pattern) and it was mainly fans of the Stone Roses who started to wear the fashions that gave the genre/scene its alternative name.

Madchester and Scally

Although it was not geographically confined to the city of Manchester,^[15] many Madchester bands like Happy Mondays, Northside and the Stone Roses were described as being baggy, and vice versa. As baggy was characterised by psychedelia and acid house-influenced guitar music, often with that "funky drummer" beat, new indie-dance bands in other British cities emerged following the breakthrough of the Madchester acts, though some acts in Liverpool argued they were already part of their own scene which had emerged independently of those in Manchester (sometimes referred to as 'Scally').^[16]^[17]^[18]

Some acts, such as Candy Flip,^[19]^[20] Blur^[21]^[22]^[23]^[24]^[25] and the Soup Dragons reinvented their sound and image to fit in with the new scene. This led some critics^[who?] to accuse baggy bands of bandwagon-jumping and derivative songwriting.^[26]

Bands in the indie-dance era of pop music can be divided into two camps; the acts who could be described as baggy (usually the Madchester acts and a few others such as Flowered Up from London), and those who can be described as alternative dance (i.e. Jesus Jones and the Shamen, who were more techno inspired). The Shamen would begin as a psychedelic indie rock band, sharing some of the characteristics of early shoegaze bands, but their style would morph between psychedelic indie rock and acid house, before absorbing more elements of techno to become a dance music act, in a way similar to the Beloved, whose career took them from an indie band to a dance duo after the Second Summer of Love.^[27]

Clothing

Alongside the music, a way of dressing emerged that gave baggy its name. Baggy jeans (often flared) alongside brightly coloured or tie-dye casual tops and general '60s style became fashionable first in Manchester and then across the country – frequently topped off with a fishing hat in the style sported by the Stone Roses' drummer Reni. The overall look was part rave, part retro or part hippie, part football casual. Many Madchester bands had football casual fans and a number of bands even wore football shirts. Eaitisham 'Shami' Ahmed's Manchester-based Joe Bloggs fashion label^[28]^[29]^[30]^[31] specialised in catering for the scene, making him a multi-millionaire.^[32]

It is also generally accepted that French stylists Marithé et François Girbaud were one of the first designers to integrate baggy in fashion industry,^[33] though the style cam be seen originating in the Northern soul scene. This scene included Twisted Wheel attendee Phil Saxe, who went on to sell flares and baggy clothing on his Gangway market stall in Manchester and Joe Moss who ran Crazyface.^[34]

Legacy

Some baggy bands evolved into indie rock or Britpop bands who remained popular throughout the 1990s. The Charlatans retained their popularity, although little trace of the baggy sound and look remained.

The baggy style was eclipsed by the grunge and Britpop genres. Apart from tribute acts, the style has been absent from the indie arena, with acts like the 2001 Manchester band Waterfall failing to interest record companies with their revival sound.

Another wave of bands in the style of the past baggy Madchester sound is currently^[when?] in process. Bands such as Kasabian, Reverend and the Makers, The Ruling Class, Sulk, The Bavarian Druglords, and Working for a Nuclear Free City have brought back aspects of the style in various forms and have garnered comparisons to the Stone Roses and the Madchester sound.

References

[1] ttps://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/21/madchester-manchester-interviews-hook-ryder

[2] ttps://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/07/1990s-indie-dance-boom-happy-mondays-primal-scream

[3] ttps://ilovemanchester.com/madchester-legacy-30-years-music

[allmusic-4] "Madchester". allmusic. Retrieved 21 April 2012.

[5] ttps://recordcollectormag.com/reviews/album/bedrock-vice

[6] ttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt5780152/

[7] ttps://www.fluxmagazine.com/madchester-1989/

[8] ttps://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/wolverhampton-record-label-once-attacked-18351248

[9] ttps://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/inside-story-day-stone-roses-18403651

[10] ttps://revolverrecords.com/about/history/

[11] ttps://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/stone-roses/stone-roses-debut-album-facts/

[12] ttp://www.clockworkthrob.com/Soho_Story.html

[13] ttps://www.economist.com/1843/2016/05/17/stone-roses-fools-gold

[14] ttps://www.soundgym.co/blog/item?id=the-stone-roses-fools-gold

[15] ttps://www.furious.com/perfect/manchesterbaggy.html

[16] ttps://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/liverpool-acts-and-casual-fashions

[17] ttps://archive.list.co.uk/the-list/1991-11-22/13/

[18] ttps://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/08/liverpoolbands/

[19] ttps://www.radiox.co.uk/features/baggy-terrible-cover-version-candy-flip-beatles/

[20] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000pjdn

[21] ttps://www.classicpopmag.com/2019/11/album-by-album-blur/

[22] ttps://www.popmatters.com/123979-blur-theres-no-other-way-2496196124.html

[23] ttps://pocketmags.com/classic-pop-magazine/sept-2019/articles/634249/album-by-album-blur

[24] ttps://www.radiox.co.uk/features/1991-was-actually-the-best-year-for-music/

[25] ttp://www.vblurpage.com/articles/stories/select_95/12_theres_no_other_way.htm

[26] ttps://middlerabbiting.com/2018/09/04/indie-moans-and-the-raiders-of-the-pop-charts-or-dont-pop-how-the-stone-roses-killed-indie-and-the-problem-with-populism-2/

[27] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007rdl

[28] ttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shami-ahmed-and-family-5s8mj9x5xrh

[29] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42857151

[30] ttps://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fashion-house-behind-iconic-madchester-14218776

[31] ttps://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/news/king-of-madchester-clothing-is-bankrupt-1850913.html

[32] Malik, Kenan (19 June 1994). "All mouth and trousers - the rise of Joe Bloggs". The Independent. London. Retrieved 12 May 2010.

[33] Figaro, Madame (13 April 2017). "Le baggy des années 1990 revient au goût du jour". Madame Figaro.

[34] ttps://museumofyouthculture.com/madchester/

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@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 * [[neo-psychedelia]]
 * [[acid house]]
-| cultural_origins  = Late 1980s – 1990s; [[Manchester, United Kingdom]]
+| cultural_origins  = Late 1980s – 1990s; [[Manchester]], [[United Kingdom]]
 | popularity        = Limited in 1990s UK
 | derivatives       = [[Britpop]]
@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 | other_topics      =
 }}
-'''Baggy''' was a name given to British indie-dance genre popular in the late 1980s and early 1990s,<ref>https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/21/madchester-manchester-interviews-hook-ryder</ref><ref>https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/07/1990s-indie-dance-boom-happy-mondays-primal-scream</ref><ref>https://ilovemanchester.com/madchester-legacy-30-years-music</ref> with many of the artists referred to as Baggy being bands from the [[Madchester]] scene.<ref name="allmusic">{{Cite web|url=http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/madchester-d4391 |title=Madchester |accessdate=2012-04-21 |work=allmusic}}</ref>
+'''Baggy''' was a name given to a British indie-dance genre popular in the late 1980s and early 1990s,<ref>https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/21/madchester-manchester-interviews-hook-ryder</ref><ref>https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/07/1990s-indie-dance-boom-happy-mondays-primal-scream</ref><ref>https://ilovemanchester.com/madchester-legacy-30-years-music</ref> with many of the artists referred to as "baggy" being bands from the [[Madchester]] scene.<ref name="allmusic">{{Cite web|url=http://www.allmusic.com/explore/style/madchester-d4391 |title=Madchester |accessdate=2012-04-21 |work=allmusic}}</ref>
 ==History==
-The genesis of indie-dance was the [[Balearic beat]] scene (where you would find DJs playing an eclectic mix of records including such rock/dance crossovers like "Jesus on the Payroll" by [[Thrashing Doves]]<ref>https://recordcollectormag.com/reviews/album/bedrock-vice</ref> and producers like [[Madchester Rave On|Paul Oakenfold]]<ref>https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5780152/</ref>) and the indie music scene in the north west of England, which featured [[Tony Wilson|Tony Wilson's]] [[Factory Records]] and former goth band [[The Stone Roses]]<ref>https://www.fluxmagazine.com/madchester-1989/</ref> in Manchester.
+The genesis of indie-dance was the [[Balearic beat]] scene (where you would find DJs playing an eclectic mix of records including such rock/dance crossovers like "Jesus on the Payroll" by [[Thrashing Doves]]<ref>https://recordcollectormag.com/reviews/album/bedrock-vice</ref> and producers like [[Madchester Rave On|Paul Oakenfold]]<ref>https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5780152/</ref>) and the indie music scene in the north west of England, which featured [[Tony Wilson]]'s [[Factory Records]] and former goth band [[the Stone Roses]]<ref>https://www.fluxmagazine.com/madchester-1989/</ref> in Manchester.
-Even though they were not signed to Factory Records, instead signing to Paul Birch's Revolver Records in Wolverhampton<ref>https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/wolverhampton-record-label-once-attacked-18351248</ref><ref>https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/inside-story-day-stone-roses-18403651</ref><ref>https://revolverrecords.com/about/history/</ref> (before taking a deal with Jive Records' [[Silvertone Records (1980)|Silvertone]]), the band did have links to Tony Wilson, Martin Hannett<ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/stone-roses/stone-roses-debut-album-facts/</ref> and Peter Hook, with the New Order bassist scheduled to produce their debut album, before [[John Leckie]] took over.
+Even though they were not signed to Factory Records, instead signing to Paul Birch's Revolver Records in Wolverhampton<ref>https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/wolverhampton-record-label-once-attacked-18351248</ref><ref>https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/inside-story-day-stone-roses-18403651</ref><ref>https://revolverrecords.com/about/history/</ref> (before taking a deal with Jive Records' [[Silvertone Records (1980)|Silvertone]]), the band did have links to Tony Wilson, Martin Hannett<ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/stone-roses/stone-roses-debut-album-facts/</ref> and [[Peter Hook]], with the [[New Order (band)|New Order]] bassist scheduled to produce their debut album, before [[John Leckie]] took over.
-It was Leckie who produced The Stone Roses single [[Fools Gold/What the World Is Waiting For|Fools Gold]] (an indie-dance record which had a prominant 'shufflebeat' <ref>http://www.clockworkthrob.com/Soho_Story.html</ref><ref>https://www.economist.com/1843/2016/05/17/stone-roses-fools-gold</ref><ref>https://www.soundgym.co/blog/item?id=the-stone-roses-fools-gold</ref> which came from a four-bar loop based upon [[Clyde Stubblefield|Clyde Stubblefield's]] "Funky Drummer" drum pattern) and it was mainly fans of The Stone Roses, who started to wear the fashions that gave the genre/scene its alternative name.
+It was Leckie who produced the Stone Roses single "[[Fools Gold/What the World Is Waiting For|Fools Gold]]" (an indie-dance record which had a prominant 'shufflebeat'<ref>http://www.clockworkthrob.com/Soho_Story.html</ref><ref>https://www.economist.com/1843/2016/05/17/stone-roses-fools-gold</ref><ref>https://www.soundgym.co/blog/item?id=the-stone-roses-fools-gold</ref> which came from a four-bar loop based upon [[Clyde Stubblefield]]'s "[[Funky Drummer]]" drum pattern) and it was mainly fans of the Stone Roses who started to wear the fashions that gave the genre/scene its alternative name.
 == Madchester and Scally ==
-Although it was not geographically confined to the city of [[Manchester]],<ref>https://www.furious.com/perfect/manchesterbaggy.html</ref> many Madchester bands like [[Happy Mondays]], [[Northside (band)|Northside]] and [[The Stone Roses]] were described as being baggy, and vice versa. As baggy was characterised by [[psychedelia]] and [[acid house]]-influenced guitar music, often with that "[[Funky Drummer|funky drummer]]" beat, new indie-dance bands in other British cities emerged following the breakthrough of the Madchester acts, though some acts in Liverpool argued they were already part of their own scene which had emerged independently of those in Manchester (sometimes referred to as 'Scally').<ref>https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/liverpool-acts-and-casual-fashions</ref><ref>https://archive.list.co.uk/the-list/1991-11-22/13/</ref><ref>https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/08/liverpoolbands/</ref>
+Although it was not geographically confined to the city of [[Manchester]],<ref>https://www.furious.com/perfect/manchesterbaggy.html</ref> many Madchester bands like [[Happy Mondays]], [[Northside (band)|Northside]] and [[the Stone Roses]] were described as being baggy, and vice versa. As baggy was characterised by [[psychedelia]] and [[acid house]]-influenced guitar music, often with that "[[Funky Drummer|funky drummer]]" beat, new indie-dance bands in other British cities emerged following the breakthrough of the Madchester acts, though some acts in Liverpool argued they were already part of their own scene which had emerged independently of those in Manchester (sometimes referred to as 'Scally').<ref>https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/liverpool-acts-and-casual-fashions</ref><ref>https://archive.list.co.uk/the-list/1991-11-22/13/</ref><ref>https://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/08/liverpoolbands/</ref>
-Some acts, such as [[Candy Flip]],<ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/baggy-terrible-cover-version-candy-flip-beatles/</ref><ref>https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000pjdn</ref> [[Blur (band)|Blur]]<ref>https://www.classicpopmag.com/2019/11/album-by-album-blur/</ref><ref>https://www.popmatters.com/123979-blur-theres-no-other-way-2496196124.html</ref><ref>https://pocketmags.com/classic-pop-magazine/sept-2019/articles/634249/album-by-album-blur</ref><ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/1991-was-actually-the-best-year-for-music/</ref><ref>http://www.vblurpage.com/articles/stories/select_95/12_theres_no_other_way.htm</ref> and [[The Soup Dragons]], reinvented their sound and image to fit in with the new scene. This led some critics{{who?|date=July 2014}} to accuse baggy bands of bandwagon-jumping and derivative songwriting.<ref>https://middlerabbiting.com/2018/09/04/indie-moans-and-the-raiders-of-the-pop-charts-or-dont-pop-how-the-stone-roses-killed-indie-and-the-problem-with-populism-2/</ref>
+Some acts, such as [[Candy Flip]],<ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/baggy-terrible-cover-version-candy-flip-beatles/</ref><ref>https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000pjdn</ref> [[Blur (band)|Blur]]<ref>https://www.classicpopmag.com/2019/11/album-by-album-blur/</ref><ref>https://www.popmatters.com/123979-blur-theres-no-other-way-2496196124.html</ref><ref>https://pocketmags.com/classic-pop-magazine/sept-2019/articles/634249/album-by-album-blur</ref><ref>https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/1991-was-actually-the-best-year-for-music/</ref><ref>http://www.vblurpage.com/articles/stories/select_95/12_theres_no_other_way.htm</ref> and [[the Soup Dragons]] reinvented their sound and image to fit in with the new scene. This led some critics{{who?|date=July 2014}} to accuse baggy bands of bandwagon-jumping and derivative songwriting.<ref>https://middlerabbiting.com/2018/09/04/indie-moans-and-the-raiders-of-the-pop-charts-or-dont-pop-how-the-stone-roses-killed-indie-and-the-problem-with-populism-2/</ref>
-Bands in the indie-dance era of [[pop music]] can be divided into two camps; the acts who could be described as baggy (usually the [[Madchester]] acts and a few others such as [[Flowered Up]] from London), and those who can be described as [[alternative dance]] (i.e. [[Jesus Jones]] and [[The Shamen]], who were more [[techno]] inspired). [[The Shamen]] would begin as a [[psychedelic rock|psychedelic]] [[indie rock]] band, sharing some of the characteristics of early [[shoegaze]] bands,  but their style would morph between [[psychedelic rock|psychedelic]] [[indie rock]] and [[acid house]], before absorbing more elements of [[techno]] to become a dance music act, in a way similar to [[The Beloved (band)|The Beloved]], whose career took them from an indie band to a dance duo after the [[Second Summer of Love]].<ref>https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007rdl</ref>
+Bands in the indie-dance era of [[pop music]] can be divided into two camps; the acts who could be described as baggy (usually the [[Madchester]] acts and a few others such as [[Flowered Up]] from London), and those who can be described as [[alternative dance]] (i.e. [[Jesus Jones]] and [[the Shamen]], who were more [[techno]] inspired). [[The Shamen]] would begin as a [[psychedelic rock|psychedelic]] [[indie rock]] band, sharing some of the characteristics of early [[shoegaze]] bands, but their style would morph between psychedelic indie rock and [[acid house]], before absorbing more elements of techno to become a dance music act, in a way similar to [[The Beloved (band)|the Beloved]], whose career took them from an indie band to a dance duo after the [[Second Summer of Love]].<ref>https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007rdl</ref>
 ==Clothing==
 Alongside the music, a way of dressing emerged that gave baggy its name.  Baggy jeans (often flared) alongside brightly coloured or tie-dye casual tops and general '60s style became fashionable first in Manchester and then across the country – frequently topped off with a fishing hat in the style sported by the Stone Roses' drummer [[Alan Wren|Reni]].  The overall look was part rave, part [[retro]] or part [[hippie]], part [[football casual]].  Many Madchester bands had football casual fans and a number of bands even wore football shirts. Eaitisham 'Shami' Ahmed's Manchester-based [[Joe Bloggs]] fashion label<ref>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shami-ahmed-and-family-5s8mj9x5xrh</ref><ref>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42857151</ref><ref>https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fashion-house-behind-iconic-madchester-14218776</ref><ref>https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/news/king-of-madchester-clothing-is-bankrupt-1850913.html</ref> specialised in catering for the scene, making him a multi-millionaire.<ref>{{cite news| url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/all-mouth-and-trousers--the-rise-of-joe-bloggs-1423650.html | work=The Independent | location=London | title=All mouth and trousers - the rise of Joe Bloggs | first=Kenan | last=Malik | date=19 June 1994 | accessdate=12 May 2010}}</ref>
-It is also generally accepted that French stylists [[Marithé et François Girbaud]] were one of the first designers to integrate baggy in fashion industry,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://madame.lefigaro.fr/style/le-baggy-des-annees-1990-revient-au-gout-du-jour-130417-130927|title=Le baggy des années 1990 revient au goût du jour|first=Madame|last=Figaro|date=13 April 2017|website=Madame Figaro}}</ref> though the style cam be seen originating in the Northern Soul scene. This scene included Twisted Wheel attendee Phil Saxe, who went on to sell flares and baggy clothing on his Gangway market stall in Manchester and Joe Moss who ran Crazyface.<ref>https://museumofyouthculture.com/madchester/</ref>
+It is also generally accepted that French stylists [[Marithé et François Girbaud]] were one of the first designers to integrate baggy in fashion industry,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://madame.lefigaro.fr/style/le-baggy-des-annees-1990-revient-au-gout-du-jour-130417-130927|title=Le baggy des années 1990 revient au goût du jour|first=Madame|last=Figaro|date=13 April 2017|website=Madame Figaro}}</ref> though the style cam be seen originating in the [[Northern soul]] scene. This scene included Twisted Wheel attendee Phil Saxe, who went on to sell flares and baggy clothing on his Gangway market stall in Manchester and Joe Moss who ran Crazyface.<ref>https://museumofyouthculture.com/madchester/</ref>
 == Legacy ==
@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 The baggy style was eclipsed by the [[grunge]] and Britpop genres. Apart from tribute acts, the style has been absent from the indie arena, with acts like the 2001 Manchester band Waterfall failing to interest record companies with their revival sound.
-Another wave of bands in the style of the past baggy Madchester sound is currently{{When|date=April 2020}} in process.  Bands such as [[Kasabian]], [[Reverend and the Makers]], The Ruling Class, Sulk, The Bavarian Druglords, and [[Working For A Nuclear Free City]] have brought back aspects of the style in various forms and have garnered comparisons to [[The Stone Roses]] and the Madchester sound. Clothes wise the flares may not be in fashion but the designer names and sport casual look can still be seen in the [[Baggymod]] look.
+Another wave of bands in the style of the past baggy Madchester sound is currently{{When|date=April 2020}} in process.  Bands such as [[Kasabian]], [[Reverend and the Makers]], The Ruling Class, Sulk, The Bavarian Druglords, and [[Working for a Nuclear Free City]] have brought back aspects of the style in various forms and have garnered comparisons to [[the Stone Roses]] and the Madchester sound.
 ==References==