Talk:Alexa O'Brien

Oklahoma Death Penalty Review

Should O'Brien's work on The Report of the Oklahoma Death Penalty Review Commission (2017) be included? Her name appears only once in the report, on page 249, footnote 34, which reads (in tiny print): "This and other statements about the practice in Oklahoma, if not otherwise indicated, are based on interviews with stakeholders conducted by Professor Boruchowitz and Alexa O'Brien from The Constitution Project." I believe that does not substantiate a contribution by O'Brien significant enough to merit inclusion among her body of work. I request that it not be added without consensus. NedFausa (talk) 07:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Gap in chronology

Per WP:ABOUTSELF, I have cited both Alexa O'Brien's blog and her verified Twitter account to document her transition from what she now jokingly calls a "useful idiot" on behalf of WikiLeaks (2011) to a harsh critic of Julian Assange (2020). However, her turnabout did not happen overnight. It surfaced during the run-up to the 2016 U.S. presidential election in which Assange, pulling the strings from his diplomatic sanctuary, cast WikiLeaks as would-be spoiler. This alienated Alexa O'Brien, who tweeted: "WikiLeaks & information activists are as insular; xenophobic; autocratic and ultimately fascist as security state they claim they oppose." Regrettably from a historical standpoint, O'Brien subsequently changed her Twitter username from carwinb to alexadobrien and deleted all tweets from that period. Nor can I find snapshots of those pages at either Wayback Machine or archive.today. If any editors can help fill in this gap with citable sources, it would improve our BLP. Thank you. NedFausa (talk) 19:26, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Accusation of off-wiki stalking

On Twitter today, the subject of this BLP accused "the obsessive who took over my Wikipedia page" of stalking her, "bordering on harassment." In a pair of follow-up tweets, she identified me as the editor in question. For the record, I deny stalking Alexa O'Brien on Twitter or anywhere else. Her accusation is unfounded. Moreover, Twitter has a procedure for users to report abusive behavior, and as far as I know, neither Ms. O'Brien nor anyone else has reported my Twitter account for stalking or harassing her. Indeed, as of the time I am creating this talk page section, O'Brien has not even blocked my account from viewing hers on Twitter. Her accusation is bogus and offensive. NedFausa (talk) 21:45, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

That’s odd. Your last significant edit on the page was in May last year. What are the problematic edits that the BLP identified? Burrobert (talk) 02:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea. She tweeted today about elevating the page for review "to make sure it abides by their biography of living persons standards for its tone/conservatism" and "so that it's clear that it isn't pro-Assange fascists or otherwise untreated people trying to harass me." I admit to being untreated but I am not a pro-Assange fascist and haven't harassed anyone. NedFausa (talk) 02:26, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Your edits related to Assange seem pretty innocuous. It sounds as though the Assange related material on the BLP's page might be causing angst. I will have a look at it to see that it is well sourced and written in a neutral way. The phrase "pro-Assange fascist" seems like an oxymoron given his beliefs. When are you being treated? Burrobert (talk) 06:39, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I think the term pro-Assange fascist stems from Donald Trump saying "I love WikiLeaks" after they published hacked emails damaging to his opponent during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign. MAGA types thereafter embraced Assange as being helpful to their champion. During his last weeks in office, many of them urged Trump to pardon Assange. To progressives, anyone who supports Trump is a fascist. Thus the phrase. As for being treated, I've applied endlessly but my insurance provider won't approve the paperwork. Something about preexisting condition. I'm afraid I'll just have to live with it. Damn fascists. NedFausa (talk) 16:03, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Twitter as source

I can't see that any part of the article reflects badly on O'Brien. Assange comes into the article when we are describing O'Brien's views on him and Wikileaks and her previous connection to Wikileaks. This is sourced to her own words at the time. The paragraph which illustrates how her view of Assange changed is sourced only to her twitter feed which is generally not the done thing. Still, it is unclear where the perceived problem lies. Btw you [NedFausa] are the most prolific editor of the page with 75.3% of the content. Well done. Burrobert (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Sourcing an entire paragraph with only two tweets by the subject themselves is a blatant violation of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. I have erred on side of caution re WP:BLP but happy to continue discussing it here, in WP:Good faith ~ Shushugah (talk)

@Shushugah: Thank you for your willingness to discuss this in good faith. With your indulgence, I'd like to distinguish between the two halves of the paragraph you deleted, each consisting of two sentences. I have no objection to removing the first half. However, I believe the second half should be restored (with revisions). For convenience, here it is, changed as I propose.

Two days later, sheIn February 2020, O'Brien tweeted from her verified account that although she'd been approached by agents over the last decade to write a book on Manning or her work, she was glad she had not done so. "If I ever write it," she joked, "title will be Useful Idiot, an autobiography."

References

I believe this satisfies the WP:TWITTER exception allowing self-published sources as the provenance of information about a person in articles about themselves. The revised content does not involve claims about a third party (Assange). Rather, it is strictly a reflection by O'Brien on her own experience, without insulting anyone by name. NedFausa (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

The issue is, it's not our job to determine the weight/relevance of these tweets, in contrast to other tweets. That's a fine task for journalists/scholars to document/synthesis about. We're a WP:TERTIARY source. For a non controversial descriptive/factual statement, that is factually true/permanently true "I got married on this day", the self published source may be forgivable, however synthesizing "Here is a tweet with my opinion on a topic" is not.

The only way to confirm whether this is timely/relevant is to do more research, which is not our role/purpose on Wikipedia. What if O'Brien changes her mind, do we need to regularly search her twitter profile? This is where the claim of stalking stems from. Her twitter timeline is not meant to be used as a search engine for the content of this article. I should also note, that she and I have crossed paths in 2011/2013, but not since then.

Shushugah (talk) 19:17, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

@Shushugah: The idea that citing two tweets, in good faith, constitutes stalking is absurd. NedFausa (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Falling out with WikiLeaks

Now that an editor who is personally acquainted with the subject of this BLP has expunged all mention of Alexa O'Brien's falling out with Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, I seek help from other, uninvolved editors to help locate WP:RS. O'Brien turning against the organization (and lashing out at its founder) that by her own account funded her coverage of the Manning court-martial, which made her world famous, is an important development meriting inclusion in her BLP. I suspect there may be sources to support this in German, given that the break occurred when she was living in Berlin with Sarah Harrison, then WikiLeaks section editor who has been described as Assange's closest adviser. Since I read English only, the assistance of German readers would be invaluable.

References

NedFausa (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2021 (UTC)