Talk:Maratha–Portuguese War (1683–1684)

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Military history: Early Modern C‑class

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	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Extend protection

@El C: I noticed that the protection will expire on 21 oct. Plz consider extending it to a couple months. The sock seems like a habitual stubborn offender and a colonialist or an extremist. He's would have read it, and he's just going to comeback again and again after it expires. Nolicmahr (talk) 20:22, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Exclusion of the Mughal Empire in the Infobox

Do we really need to include the Mughal Empire in the Infobox? They don't, in any point, contribute to the events of the war. They do not support or oppose any side directly during this war - militarily or financially. They were mere bystanders during this operation. Zocdoclesson (talk) 13:57, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds reasonable to me. Wareno (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mughal Empire supported Portuguese against Marathas so Portuguese supported them too so we should exclude them for being third party of this war but must include them with Portuguese empire against Maratha empire

You can read more about this war from this book- https://archive.org/details/portuguese-mahratta-relations_20210214 Mizuhara Chizuru (talk) 19:20, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Mughals did not provide the Portuguese with any men or materials for the war, nor did the Portuguese do the same for the Mughals.

The Mughals sided with the Turks during the many Portuguese-Ottoman wars and were adversaries of the Portuguese. Zocdoclesson (talk) 21:05, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of conflicts

Please don't remove this section if you don't have anything to add up with proper citations @Wareno@Zocdoclesson Mizuhara Chizuru (talk) 19:12, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Petty skirmishes dont count as battles. It is more akin to minute trivia. This is only applicable when the war takes place over several years and on several fronts.

Also, the use of green for a Maratha "victory" and red for a Portuguese "victory" is clearly biased towards the Maratha side giving the impression that one side is desirable while the other is not. Zocdoclesson (talk) 20:57, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unconstructive Edits

@Zocdoclesson,@Wareno You both are engaged in edit war and making unconstructive edits continuously. The war result of this war was completely not one sided. None of the source mentioned it as Portugese victory.While there are multiple Maratha accounts & letter of Fransisco de alvor clearly said that Sambhaji defeated them at many fronts.There are more than 4 sources which states that it was status quo anth bellum while only one source which itself not reliable said(not sure) it was Portugese even at this logic this edit can't be reverted. There are not only Maratha Sources but Portuguese sources including viceroy alvor described bad condition of Portuguese and victory of Sambhaji then it can be putted as Maratha victory but due to at the end the situation remained same thats why States quo ante bellum is perfect.note that Marathas widrawed their forces after treaty not Portuguese repelled them. Aryan330 (talk) 09:23, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no source that mentions this conflict as a Maratha victory either, yet you failed to raise this concern whenever users make that edit.

The Marathas, under Sambhaji wanted to drive away the Portuguese, or at the minimum aquire some of their land. They failed in both their objectives.

The Portuguese did not atrack the Marathas, therefore their objective was survival. The met their objective. Zocdoclesson (talk) 09:33, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zocdoclesson In the war perspective its all about territories & that remained same at last,that's why States quo ante bellum term was used by historians.

There is no source that mentions this conflict as a Maratha victory either what if I show? Aryan330 (talk) 09:35, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I will agree on the consensus of Status quo ante bellum Note :- @Zocdoclesson Had got the point & agreed with it.

Thanks to him for cooperation. Aryan330 (talk) 09:53, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I will agree with the Status quo ante bellum result. Even though the Marathas did not meet their military objectives. Zocdoclesson (talk) 09:53, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Even though the Marathas did not meet their military objectives is this about treaty after the battle?@Zocdoclesson No side followed this treaty sincerely & it was first broken down by Portugese (According to Pissunlencer) Aryan330 (talk) 09:55, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zocdoclesson Even though the Marathas did not meet their military objectives Marathas had captured many villages,islands & a large part of capital Goa itself.

While Portuguese attacked Ponda(last battle) in which they were defeated(that statement would be perfect for this incident as Portugals didn't meet their military objectives) & viceroy had fled to the tomb of Fransis Xavier with a wish that Sambhaji should go back.

These all incidents & also Portuguese documents clearly said that Viceroy is now completely depended on the aid of Mughals.

Even after this I don't know on which basis you are saying that!

By the way closing the discussion. Aryan330 (talk) 10:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a difference between the words "captured" and "invaded". One is long term, while the other is short term control. The Marathas invaded several places in this war, not captured.

The Portuguese did not have any military objectives barring survival, and that was achieved. There was no plan to attack Ponda or any other place before the Maratha invasion of the Konkan.

The Mughal involvement is part of the Mughal invasions of Konkan (1684), which was pure coincidence (or miraculous, since you brought up the Viceroy praying to his Saint).

Heavy rains also prevented Sambhaji from coming close to the captial city of Goa. So was the Viceroy aided by Indra too? Zocdoclesson (talk) 10:25, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ZocdoclessonThe Marathas invaded several places in this war, not captured Source?

I would give not only Maratha but Portuguese sources also that support that Marathas Captured a huge territories from Portuguese.

So was the Viceroy aided by Indra too I will take you to the Administrators discussion board within hours for this statement.

You should be blocked. Aryan330 (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh so when you bring up that the viceroy fleeing to the tomb of Fransis Xavier with a wish that Sambhaji should go back, it's perfectly fine.

But when I say Indra heard his prayer, you take offense?

Don't be a hypocrite. Zocdoclesson (talk) 10:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zocdoclesson It was a historical incident.I will give sources to it.

You have crossed limits by insulting a diety of respective relegion. Aryan330 (talk) 10:39, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How is it insulting to say that a diety helped someone?

It is also historical that the rain prevented the Marathas from crossing the river, into the city of Goa. I will give you sources on rain deities as well. Zocdoclesson (talk) 11:19, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]