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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Napalm Guy (talk | contribs) at 07:28, 2 October 2023 (→‎?: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Gaping hole in biography

Reading this article there's clearly a question that goes unaddressed. One can't help but wonder how this petty thug turned businessman and caterer ended up forming a mercenary corps and leading it at the frontlines, a mercenary group now well-known for its efficacy. That's not something that just about any chef can do, in fact usually it takes some relevant military experience. Yet here we read his life story and without explanation we learn that this chef turned into a general of his own private army of convicts. How? 80.68.228.217 (talk) 16:30, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably he was given an opportunity by Putin in 2014 because he was close to the regime and regarded as loyal. It seemed to work, so he got given more resources and started expanding operations. You're right that more detail and more sources are needed in this area. 203.7.124.55 (talk) 06:19, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Although he is dead now, he seems to have gone from busboy to effective military general in 2 quick hops. Maybe it doesn't take much to control an army.
Also, because CNN referred to him as an "oligarch", that's the first thing Wikipedia says about the guy. He may have been better off financially when he died than when he was bussing tables, but that hardly ranks him as an oligarch.
I'm not going to correct any of these mistakes. There are plenty of more important fights I can get into. Nehmo (talk) 15:57, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2023 (1)

We should remove the claim that "His father and stepfather were of Jewish descent", and his listing in the "Russian people of Jewish descent" category, as well as the reference to the Times of Israel article, whose source is a false confirmation (circular reporting) as I explained here Talk:Yevgeny_Prigozhin#Jewish_Ethnicity Ketchupsource (talk) 18:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done. Wiki follows what Reliable Sources state. See policy. HammerFilmFan (talk) 11:21, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia policy WP:NEWSORG actually states that circular sourcing is not a valid source and should be bewared of so the request still holds. "Some news organizations have used Wikipedia articles as a source for their work. Editors should therefore beware of circular sourcing." Ketchupsource (talk) 05:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Non sequitur. Read original reply. HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:40, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
How reliable is claim that he is Jewish? According to this article:
"The first round of headlines claiming Prigozhin was Jewish appeared some months ago. As I said at the time, there is no evidence whatsoever that the claim is true. The rumors that Prigozhin “had Jewish blood” were started by Ukrainian websites that were trying to discredit Prigozhin among his fellow Russians.
These false claims were then picked up in an irresponsible way by prominent Israeli media outlets, no doubt eager for page clicks in today’s overly competitive, increasingly down-market media environment. These include the online edition of Israel’s best-selling newspaper Yediot Ahronot.
Prigozhin's Wikipedia page, which appears in 71 languages, is now locked and cannot be edited. It says that Prigozhin’s father is Jewish, referencing an article in the Times of Israel. That article is also incorrect. It has been changed to reflect this, but the Wikipedia entry has not.
Other media continue to promote this falsehood. See below, for example, from the (London) Jewish Chronicle two days ago. The headline and article are still on their website at the time of writing."

Are Ilya and and Yevgeny related?

Prigogine and Prigozhin - Perhaps handled better by a Russian scholar than me. Doug youvan (talk) 11:39, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2023

Edit proposal:

1. Edit position: Introduction section After this sentence: "Prigozhin agreed to move to Belarus and criminal charges against him for rebellion were dropped. Wagner mutineers would not be prosecuted if they agreed to either sign contracts with the Defense Ministry or move to Belarus.[20]"

2. Edit content: As of the 6th of July 2023, Prigozhins whereabouts are subject of speculation after Belarussian leader Alexander Grigoryevich Lukashenko, after having been asked by British CNN reporter Matthew Chance in a press conference, claimed that Prigozhin is still located in Russia, possibly St. Petersburg or even Moscow, but not Belarus.

3. Sources - CNN article and video: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/06/europe/wagner-chief-prigozhin-russia-intl/index.html - The Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/wagner-boss-yevgeny-prigozhin-russia-alexander-lukashenko-belarus

4. Additional request If it's possible to support the work of the Wikipedia community by adding neutral information and/or sources, especially on hard or controversial topics that could be subject to manipulation like this (edit-protected) article, I would really like to do so. Unfortunately, I am a bit new to the community (about half a year), so I don't know how to apply for this qualification, but I would be thankful if you could inform me about how to earn this qualification. I would be really happy if you could leave me a message on my profile or something like that. If you would need additional information about me or anything like that, I would be happy to oblige.

Up front: My language skills in English might be imperfect due to me being German, but I'm doing my best.

Thank you for reading! NeutralerNutzername (talk) 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Article quotes Alexander Lukashenko as saying that "as for Prigozhin, he's in St Petersburg. He is not on the territory of Belarus." Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 14:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was his mom a nurse or dr?

Its says in two different things in two sections. In one that his mom was a nurse and in the other that hos mom was a doctor and educator. Which one is true ? 80.208.65.190 (talk) 19:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 July 2023

Shoudn't we add Prigozhin's feud with Igor Girkin and Ramzan Kadyrov DitorWiki (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 13:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i am telling that you have to add a section
e.g -
Yevgeny Prigozhin's feud
With Igor Girkin
...
With Ramzan Kadyrov
... DitorWiki (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:31, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2023

I want to add the titles of Yevgeny Prigozhin in his Africa operations. On July 6, the FSB raided Prigozhin's residence and discovered wigs and many fake passports. All of this was revealed to the public. A few hours after this was released to public, Wagners telegram channel announced the titles and ranks of Prigozhin on African operations, hence describing why he uses the wigs. In PMC Wagner's message they said;

" On the eve of the public in the face of the TV program "60 minutes" of the TV channel "Russia 1" was excited at the sight of wigs found at Prigozhin during the searches.

Why would a person we already know need so many wigs, they asked.

Everything is outrageously simple: for trips abroad. And here are a few selfies of Prigozhin after the reincarnation. "

The titles and ranks are listed below.

1. Ministry of Defence officer in Sudan 2. Assistant Diplomat from Abu Dhabi 3. Senior Lieutenant from Benghazi 4. Colonel from Tripoli 5. Merchant from Syria 6. Field commander Mohammed.

There are many more things to add to this article such as pictures and more detailed descriptions. If these changes are added people can be more aware of the duty of Prigozhin in Africa. Utkutibet (talk) 11:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -Lemonaka‎ 02:42, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Religion

He seems to be of Jewish decent, but is not religious himself? Is it possible to add this to his page.

https://c2donghungtl.edu.vn/en/yevgeny-prigozhin-religion-is-he-christian-or-jewish-ethnicity-and-parents 2A02:A03F:8B2C:9200:ADB0:DA0E:B15B:4C57 (talk) 17:36, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speculation of no use on Wikipedia. — kashmīrī TALK 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
His Ancestry and racial background is absolutely relevant to his biography. 2600:6C64:78F0:8000:A4FF:CE02:1096:D99F (talk) 18:14, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. 2804:388:4103:EAFD:1:0:C2CA:1F43 (talk) 18:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We require reliable sources for any information like this. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


we have a photo of the plane

©Geni (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is your source of this? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The registration is mentioned at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/23/yevgeny-prigozhin-on-private-jet-that-crashed-near-moscow-russia-wagner among other places.©Geni (talk) 17:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also a nice photo of the jet plunging to the ground Teenyplayspop (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"The jet reportedly had the tail number RA-02795."
There is no official confirmation of this being the crashed plane, so it should be held off until either a lot of sources claim that number or an official source (Russian Aviation Authority, for example) claims it. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure any Russian government source should be considered reliable here. 331dot (talk) 18:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Any source is better than speculation. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 18:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd agree with 331dot that the Russians aren't necessarily the best source. The BBC is currently trying to verify reports. This is their current article: [[1]] MetricPin (talk) 18:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here’s the NYT, citing video and flight tracker: [2] K. Oblique 18:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Passenger list vs on board

Both Novaya Gazeta and The Guardian interpret the Federal Air Transport Agency's statement(s) to mean that the agency is sure that Prigozhin was on board the plane. In contrast, most English sources interpret the agency's statement(s) to mean that he was officially on the passenger list - which only means that standard procedures of identity verification (whatever they are) were used, not that the agency has questioned the airport staff or monitoring cameras or used other identity verification beyond "regular" procedures. In many countries, IDs for domestic flights are usually not checked; having a valid ticket is enough.

The interpretations of the agency's text are not in themselves notable, so until there's confirmation one way or another, sticking to "officially on the passenger list" or the equivalent is the only verifiable information in the Wikipedia sense. I made a correction in the plane crash article to avoid over-interpretation of the agency's statement as described by Novaya Gazeta. Boud (talk) 00:03, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All 10 bodies have been recovered from the site and the search operation has been completed, authorities said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/23/russia-moscow-private-jet-crash-wagner-prigozhin-live/ Synotia (moan) 07:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

it's according to this telegram channel, has not been officially confirmed. Synotia (moan) 07:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per The Kyiv Independent, a good source, "Russian media" confirm that all 10 bodies were taken for examination but The warlord's death is yet to be confirmed by official sources, however. Boud (talk) 08:33, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per Meduza, a good source, Prigozhin was almost certainly killed in the crash. But interpretations by media are only of temporary notability. People who study media might be interested. Boud (talk) 08:36, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We had best stick to official reports, which are currently coming from... Russian organs. kencf0618 (talk) 10:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trimming

Hello @Kashmiri:

I do not object to your recent trimming of the article. However, you're deleting 25 kbs of content that might be used in other articles such as Wagner Group or Wagner Group activities in Africa, etc...

Could you please consider moving rather than deleting? -- Jabbi (talk) 09:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We had best stick to official reports, which are currently coming from... Russian organs. 2023 Tver plane crash already has a sufficient reactions section. kencf0618 (talk) 10:12, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Jabbi, thanks. I won't be immediately able to focus on editing the articles you linked due to time constraints, however editors of those articles are welcome to reuse the passages I removed, as they are preserved in the edit history. On a quick glance, these articles contain quite detailed sections about Wagner Group activities, so it would be surprising to me if Prigozhin's biography contained details that are missing there. However, as I wrote, unfortunately I won't be able to carry out a detailed comparison today. Cheers, — kashmīrī TALK 10:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not against trimming content about Wagner that doesn't involve Prigozhin, but I think you've trimmed the lead too much. For example, Prigozhin saying the reasons for the invasion were lies is lead-worthy. It was much more serious than just criticizing the Defense Ministry, and the sources highlight that. – Asarlaí (talk) 12:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Direct quotes from article subject don't normally belong in the lead section, especially when they have no relation with the subject's biography (Greek: βιογραφία, lit. 'description of life'). I know that some Western editors get soooo excited when someone in Russia/China/etc gets critical of the government policy, and they want to stick this news everywhere as if in confirmation of their own criticism – but please, we're trying to write up a decent biography here, not an analysis of the "strange things out there beyond the Iron Curtain". — kashmīrī TALK 18:19, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yevgeny Prigozhin confirmed dead.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has been officially confirmed dead, I have the article citation plus the Russian Federal Air transport agency has also confirmed his death. Kindly edit the article in light of this new development, thanks Mujiwins (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post it. kencf0618 (talk) 10:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly provide us with the article citation in question then, please. Drunk Experiter (talk) 17:00, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore the NYT notes that his death has not been officially declared. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/world/europe/yevgeny-prigozhin-dead.html kencf0618 (talk) 18:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can we even trust any sort of declaration from the Russian authorities? Putin said he was dead, and very little happens in Russia without Putin's knowledge. 331dot (talk) 18:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In point of fact, Putin did not confirm his death. Read his "eulogy" closely. Past tense? So what‽ And it's hardly a matter of trusting Russian sources, it's a matter of as per Wikipedia:Verifiability of verifying Russian sources, whatever they say—and we haven't heard from the official investigation, which is officially being run by the Ministry of Emergency Situations (Russia). At some level we'll to cite the official statements of Russian organs such that if the final report of the Ministry of Emergency Situations declares that, say, Prigozhin was asphyxiated in his hovercraft full of eels and that he was in a state of cardiac arrest, that still wouldn't be a report from a morgue or an official declaration of death. kencf0618 (talk) 11:58, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is some degree of trust involved, as to if something is a reliable source. Presumably Putin would not have spoken in the past tense if he did not think Prigozhin was dead or would otherwise have been less definitive("I'm waiting for official confirmation, but....") 331dot (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You guys srs need to start believing me, The russian prosecutors office just now officially confirmed his death by DNA investigation, here is you link for reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TJr35pxKVw Mujiwins (talk) 11:56, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The russian prosecutors office just now officially confirmed his death by DNA investigation. And other news, no one ever now has the right to make memes about "famous person: *dies* wikipedia editors on their way to change "is" to "was":", because yall cant admit that he is dead for a whole week as of now 193.37.192.149 (talk) 10:58, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, Russian media outlets (and some Russian government agencies) are not exactly trustworthy sources of accurate information. 72.14.126.22 (talk) 18:59, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We might ignore the original Russian sources. However, all other sources that qualify as RS (e.g. [3]) do consider his death essentially a fact. So should we. My very best wishes (talk) 01:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I mostly agree, however, I think we should also be saying "according to Russian officials ..." just as the Western reliable sources also do in their articles. 72.14.126.22 (talk) 04:05, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, see WP:GEVAL. We do not have even a small "minority view" that he is alive. That belongs to conspiracy theories. My very best wishes (talk) 01:48, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please Wikipedia does NOT tolerate political bias in its content nor its editors.
Regards, Mujiwins (talk) 16:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Defense or Defence?

Both spellings are used in the article. Note that Ministry of Defence (Russia) uses the spelling with a C. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 17:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should we really waste our energy on this issue? You decide Mujiwins (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a waste of energy to make sure appropriate policies like WP:ENGVAR are applied properly. 331dot (talk) 11:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all a waste of time. It's part of developing high-quality, consistent articles. I vote for defence, as this is a European topic. Moncrief (talk) 19:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
being a european topic alone doesn't justify using british english spelling IMO.
English sources seem to be using both spellings, however, the official russian military website (use a vpn or web proxy if you cant get access due to being in the US) uses the defence spelling. Most sources seem to refer to the ministry as the Ministry of Defence when calling it by name, but call it the ministry of defense/defense ministry when referring to it as a ministry of defense. So, my vote is when referring to it by name to use Ministry of Defence as the proper noun, and defense when referring to the act of defense. DarmaniLink (talk) 05:02, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 August 2023

Final sentence in the first paragraph has "a" twice in a row. It should read "...staging a rebellion" 70.161.222.89 (talk) 04:35, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done -Lemonaka‎ 09:11, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 August 2023 (2)

The line in the header that reads: he became business oligarch with close ties to Russian president Vladimir Putin in the 2000s,

is missing an a between "became" and "business oligarch". I believe it should read

he became a business oligarch with close ties to Russian president Vladimir Putin in the 2000s, Alfolfin (talk) 07:52, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Sentences have been copy-edited, no longer need this one. -Lemonaka‎ 09:10, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciated! Alfolfin (talk) 23:06, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 August 2023

Request to remove the date of death. He may not be dead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/165sxrd/prigojine_say_hes_in_africa_during_his_crash/

Here's a video of the man talking. 2600:1700:9670:7340:7CCB:863F:3784:E8CC (talk) 22:46, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 22:53, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was posted on the “greyzone” and various russian telegram groups, all wagner affiliated. Multiger (talk) 14:47, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why must we use this picture?

The current picture of Prigozhin is terrible and does not show his full face. Someone please change it to a better picture which is still fairly recent. Khablin (talk) 12:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you are referring to File:Yevgeny Prigozhin (13-06-2023).jpg, I don't see the issue- but do you have an image you deem to be an improvement? Obviously the opportunity for new images is now gone, so we can only rely on existing ones- and those would need to have a copyright compatible with Wikipedia's. 331dot (talk) 12:36, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The current profile picture for Prigozhin is terrible. It does not show his full face. Please change it to a better one.Khablin (talk) 12:39, 31 August 2023 (UTC) User Khablin[reply]

Khablin Please keep the discussion in this location, there is no need to open additional sections. 331dot (talk) 12:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a good frontal picture of him that does not violate copyright? DarmaniLink (talk) 16:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Bellingcat report

In the lead paragraph, it says

according to a 2022 investigation, were "tightly integrated with Russia's Defence Ministry and its intelligence arm, the GRU".[8]

However, the linked report is from 2020. Naimenz (talk) 00:06, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Naimenz  Done -Lemonaka‎ 04:04, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is way too long

Please see WP:LEAD. A lead is not supposed to be an overwhelming cram session of every angle of information about a subject. I can work on it as able too, but wanted to start the discussion. Moncrief (talk) 00:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2023

He is alive and appeared in a video addressing the claims of his death https://m.timesofindia.com/world/europe/those-speculating-video-featuring-russias-prigozhin-fuels-rumors-hes-alive/amp_articleshow/103256971.cms Napalm Guy (talk) 08:52, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done The Times of India is not the best source to be using- but even if we did, it does not definitively say he is alive. 331dot (talk) 09:13, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The video was recorded around the 21st of August according to multiple reliable sources.[4][5][6][7] — kashmīrī TALK 10:50, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Times of India is regarded as a biased source, and appears to spread political propaganda a lot, so it's not a trustable source. Mujiwins (talk) 16:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2023

Please remove stress marks in Russian at the lead section per Wikipedia:Stress marks in East Slavic words. Also remove some non-notable children names per WP:BLPNAME and Template:Infobox person/doc. 112.205.176.179 (talk) 05:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That first link about stress marks is an opinion essay, not a guideline. HappyWith (talk) 20:45, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

?

In the battle of Bakhmut page do we put Prigozhins death as a death of natural causes as he died while the battle was ongoing? 178.221.94.105 (talk) 22:18, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No. The battle ended while he was alive. Napalm Guy (talk) 07:28, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Приго́жин" or "Пригожин"?

There is apparently something in Russian that sometimes makes the name diffrent. In his infobox, the Russian name is "Евгений Викторович Пригожин" but in the first sentance is given to be "Евге́ний Ви́кторович Приго́жин". I don't know this concept. I just want to make sure that we really want to write "Приго́жин" instead of "Пригожин" in the infobox.--Marginataen (talk) 09:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Marginataen, these are stress marks. It’s standard practice in encyclopedias (e.g. ru-wiki) to put them on proper names. Cheers, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 11:35, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Should that also apply for English Wikipedia? I don't know myself. Marginataen (talk) 11:58, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The stress marks should be added in the first part of the page. Later on they shouldnt be used however. Deus vult fratres! (talk) 19:45, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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