Talk:Compatibilism and incompatibilism

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Ill Logic

I'm really trying to understand compatibilism, but it just doesn't make sense to me. The core sentence from the article (I think):

"Whilst a compatibilist will not try to deny that whatever choice you make will have been predetermined since the beginning of time, they will argue that this choice that you make is an example of free will because no one is forcing you to make whatever choice you make."

This surely is a contradiction! I'm not being forced in my choice? If history X predetermines choice A, then choice A is forced by history X. Does belief in compatibilism require one to give up logic? Because, if so, I'd rather start praying to the flying spaghetti monster.

Compatibilists differentiate between something being causally necessitated by the laws of nature, and somoen being compelled to do something by someone else. They believe you are free if you are not compelled, and that you are casually necessitated, and that that is not compulsion, so you are still free.1Z 12:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Your wording is more clear than the article. It seems that compatibilists indeed stress a difference between necessitation and compulsion. I believe the distinction is ultimately imaginary though. this paper basically sums up how I would argue this matter. <signing this and previous comment with my newly created account> Astarica 11:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also:

"Further, according to Hume, free will should not be understood as an absolute ability to have chosen differently under exactly the same inner and outer circumstances. Rather, it is a hypothetical ability to have chosen differently if one had been differently psychologically disposed by some different beliefs or desires."

Does Hume, with his early 18th century knowledge, not realize that "some different beliefs or desires" would just as well be part of the collection of "exactly the same inner and outer circumstances" and likewise result from predetermined cause? Astarica 11:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note

This article sucks. Determinism is true or false, it doesn't exist or fail to exist. KSchutte 20:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Free Will Example

The example involving someone holding a gun to a reader's head is not only very unencyclopedia-like, but it is also a very poor example of a situation that lacks a free will element. Just because a choice would most likely result in the chooser's death (such as defying the gunman in this case), does not mean that it is not a valid choice. Free will is entirely present in this scenario, and a better example is needed. VoidTalker 17:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Compatiblists have traditionally taken this kind of situation to define all there is about FW and the lack thereof. I am not convinced myself, but it is notable.1Z 13:02, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TBD

There is too much emphasis on Hume. Kant probably needs separate treatment.1Z 19:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]