Talk:List of best-selling music artists

Roberto Carlos and Nelson Gonçalves

If you take a look at the List of best-selling Latin music artists page, Roberto Carlos and Nelson Gonçalves are reported to have sold 100 and 75 million copies, respectively. They both should also be in this page. Check out that article's talk page for discussion of those artists in the lists. Erick (talk) 17:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Dalida, Charles Aznavour, Julio Inglesias... there must be many more? Maybe a Chinese General? Maybe Edith Piaf? Monodonoceros (talk) 15:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2024

In the "Country" section next to Oasis, can you rename it to "United Kingdom", as per usual with the other music artists that hail from the United Kingdom? 2601:40D:101:9D60:13E:A6BD:3E8:F715 (talk) 16:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

 Erledigt Jamedeus (talk) 21:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Taylor’s sales need to be updated

Regardless of the method that you use to count sales, Taylor’s sales must be updated. We all know that she broke all kinds of records in the past 3 years and that she has been the best selling artist in the world in 2023 and will be in 2024 too. She has sold tons of physical sales on top of being the most streamed artist of the year in 2023 (and so far in 2024 as well). Since 2021 (her last update) she has released 4 new albums (4 rerecordings + 2 brand new albums), she’s making music history.She’s been Billboard top artist for more than 100 weeks. It’s about time all of this gets acknowledged. Tommyb95 (talk) 15:48, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

You need to provide reliable sources to back up sales figures. Erick (talk) 15:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

for God’s sake, even if you take into consideration only the first week sales certified by Billboard you can see that Taylor moved millions of physical sales! As for streaming goes the numbers are open, it’s been written everywhere that Taylor has generated 26 billions streams in 2023 alone and RIAA equates 1500 streams to an equivalent album sale. Just look it up! IFPI awarded Taylor in 2033 as the best selling artist in the world (only artist to win it 4 times). There are hundreds of sources that document the success that Taylor has had in the past 3 years, even here on Wikipedia. The 114 weeks as Billboard top artist is certified by Billboard itself, what more do you want? Sleeping on Taylor and denying what happened in the past 3 years is just unprofessional for a page that claims to be a reference for the best selling artists of all time… 37.163.188.66 (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

The burden is on the one making the claim. It is not up to me or anyone else to provide the sources to back those statements up. Erick (talk) 16:25, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I guess Billboard isn’t a valuable source for you then 37.163.188.66 (talk) 16:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

How about you post a source from Billboard that backs up Taylor's sales? Erick (talk) 16:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.billboard.com/lists/taylor-swift-tortured-poets-department-debut-number-one-billboard-200-chart/#! there you go, the evidence from Billboard that Taylor sold just in the US 2.61 millions albums with only TTPD (one of the 11 albums that she has in the top200)in its first week… Billboard posts an article about Taylor every week citing how much she sells… and that’s just in the US 37.163.188.66 (talk) 16:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

there you also have the proof by Billboard that Taylor is in fact the best selling artist of 2023: https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/taylor-swift-crowned-ifpi-global-recording-artist-2023-1235611258/amp/ 37.163.188.66 (talk) 16:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Source one says equivalent album units, not sales and source two makes no mention of how much she sold. Erick (talk) 17:07, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

equivalent album sales are the current measure in the industry ever since streaming entered the game… how else can you count all formats, from pure sales to digital sales to streaming? btw even if you wanna deny streaming equivalent sales, the article states that Taylor sold 1.91 millions pure sales (physical) with TTPD in its first week in the US only. Just imagine how much Taylor sold in all formats in the past 3 years with all her 11 albums charting in the billboard hot200… also, everything I stated is fact-checked by billboard. Even the 26.1 billions streams in 2023 alone are reported by Billboard itself (https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-spotify-top-artist-2023-1235514071/amp/)… if you knew the RIAA equivalences from streaming to equivalent album sales, you would known how much she sold in 2023… but I get it, you’d rather pretend that 26.1 billion streams amount to nothing. Let’s act as if the current best selling artist in the world sold 0 copies in the past 2/3 years. Just wait until a dumb magazine claims that she sold 250 or 300 million sales in a few years. Don’t be surprised though if your page loses credibility in the mean time. There are sites that actually monitor all formats every day and they add all things up to provide a realistic picture (which explain how Taylor sold 40 millions equivalent album sales in 2023 worldwide), you clearly aren’t one of those sources… bye 2A0E:425:889B:0:6C42:1128:F647:154B (talk) 18:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I believe the 26.1 billion streams are from a global audience. Even if these streams were all from the United States and entirely paid, they would only amount to 17.4 million album-equivalent units, which wouldn't significantly impact her currently reported sales. TheWikiholic (talk) 05:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

aren’t sales supposed to be global? It’s not like sales outside the US don’t matter. Btw these are just the filtered streaming figures from 2023. Count 2023, 2024 streaming + physical sales, you would realize that she sold more than 50 million equivalent albums sales since 2022, and these kind of sales are significant by all standards 78.208.129.149 (talk) 16:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

What does Taylor's not updated certifications have to do with Beyoncé's??? you can work for that without disruptive other artist's updated figure. Wikipedia adheres to the principle of neutrality and does not cater to fan biases. WP:NPOV WP:NOTFANWEBSITE Newpicarchive (talk) 15:48, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

I didn’t even mention Beyoncé in this thread. I do believe that magazines inflate her sales to make them fit her legend status, I think that in terms of equivalent units her sales are closer to what is claimed by sources like Chartmasters (over 100 millions, like Rihanna and Adele but nowhere close to 200 millions), but I respect that on this list we go by claimed sales… but at least they should be updated, and Taylor’s success in the past 3 years need to be taken into account 78.208.129.149 (talk) 16:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Why you reply to me as anonymous?? But you did revert her figures entirely. The source i provided is NOT a magazine, it's from Sony Music. We don't use the equivalent units and a chart blog that is managed by fans like Chartmasters that is disqualified as a reliable source per WP:BADCHARTS here but the total certifications units and claimed units ( claimed by Sony Music in Beyoncé's case FYI). Newpicarchive (talk) 17:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Revert this and don't mislead the editors again. The UK certification of all the artists are updated as of May 17, 2024. BPI only added 140,000 units of certification of Beyonce since then. Do not use Wikipedia pages and Sony Music, which is the record label of Beyonce who are notable of inflating record sales for their artists for their promotional purposes. TheWikiholic (talk) 17:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you TheWikiholic for pointing that out! 🙏🏻 2A0E:425:889B:0:BDD2:2C2B:9810:C873 (talk) 19:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

don't mislead the editors but at the same time you accused a record label inflating numbers without evidence. Make it make sense! Newpicarchive (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Chartmasters is not managed by fans of any specific artist. It’s a team of people who work every day to find out data from all over the world, be it physical sales, streaming sales, and digital sales. They use the industry norms to weight all the formats in the same way for every artist, they study each artist’s case album by album, and if they haven’t studied an artist yet they don’t claim anything about their sales. Their data are consistent with the charts from all over the world, kworb and so on… and they provide the list of the sources that they use for every artist, if only you bother to look carefully. They certainly don’t take data from the record label of the artist! 2A0E:425:889B:0:BDD2:2C2B:9810:C873 (talk) 19:31, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:BADCHARTSAVOID chartmasters is being disqualified to use as a source. They also calling a certain artist a derogatory name and occasionally involved in a fan-war on the internet https://x.com/dojajay/status/1713030443749023879) -- is that supposed to be a "reliable source" compared to a record label??? Newpicarchive (talk) 21:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

they certainly have less conflict of interest than a record label, whose job is to promote their artists… and they are one of the few sites that use a fair and scientific approach to every artist, going into detail for every album… 2A0E:425:889B:0:BDD2:2C2B:9810:C873 (talk) 21:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Btw I reply as anonymous because I don’t have the time to log in every single time to reply 2A0E:425:889B:0:BDD2:2C2B:9810:C873 (talk) 19:32, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2024

Please Update AC/DC, Metallica, Black Eyed Peas, Killers and Post Malone Sales in Brazil https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=AC%2FDC&busca_tipo_produto=&busca_tipo_certificado=&busca_pela_gravadora=&busca_ano=, https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Metallica&busca_tipo_produto=&busca_tipo_certificado=&busca_pela_gravadora=&busca_ano=, https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Black+Eyed+Peas&busca_tipo_produto=&busca_tipo_certificado=&busca_pela_gravadora=&busca_ano=, https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Killers+&busca_tipo_produto=&busca_tipo_certificado=&busca_pela_gravadora=&busca_ano=, https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Post+Malone&busca_tipo_produto=&busca_tipo_certificado=&busca_pela_gravadora=&busca_ano= Carlosmarkos2345 (talk)

Beyonce certifications

Her certifications have been recently updated, particularly in Brazil and across various European regions. The German page Beyoncé/Auszeichnungen für Musikverkäufe is consistently being updated, and even her album tracks have been certified in these regions. You can verify each one of the songs and countries individually yourself. Newpicarchive (talk) 21:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

I tend to believe almost all artists have pending certifications to be updated in this list by some degrees, including Beyonce. However, see WikiHolic's observations, taking UK and US as example and compare again their figures (German Wikipedia) in the UK and US. We can't take Wikipedia as a source, per se. You're welcome to add missing data as long they haven't been updated and came from the certifying body. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Beyoncé's certifications have not been updated to 11M units (in the UK) since May 17, 2024. You are citing German Wikipedia as source. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. We have around 120 artists on this list, and we do not use the website of artists nor their record label's website as a source. You should revert your edits. You've already made 4 reverts within the last 24 hours, thus breaking the 3-revert rule, which warrants a block. TheWikiholic (talk) 15:08, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Just as a side note, that source (Irish Independent) stating 160m sold is dated 15th April 2016, which is actually pre-Lemonade. Lemonade was released 23rd April 2016. Considering she released 3 studio albums, 1 soundtrack album ,another album with the Carters and various singles since that article was published, i would argue the article is outdated and not particularly useful. Thanks.

Edit: It's similar with Swift. The article stating her lower estimate (170m) is dated 2015. We all know she has released many albums and records since then. Why are outdated lower estimates being used for only Beyonce and Swift? Other artists either don't have a lower estimate number, or if they do, their sources are more up to date. For instance Rihanna. The article stating her lower estimate (BBC) is dated 2017--which may have a modicum of accuracy considering she has released no albums since 2016. Personally. i would argue that the lower estimates for both Beyonce and Taylor need to either be updated or removed.

Koppite1 (talk) 09:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Lack of credibility

It is not a good article, it must necessarily be modified, in fact it was nominated for elimination and I agree and I did not vote because I was not aware, the quality of users who have defended maintaining this article is very doubtful, there is history, there are artists and this is not a fan page especially for Michael Jackson. The previous history cannot be analyzed from the current perspective, which is what they are doing, under erroneous assumptions, for this reason, in their respective times there have been institutions that were in charge of that, such as Guinness is an example and many more.

This List is highly discussed and the level of credibility is very low and we seek objectivity, to be frank, no one has sold more albums than The Beatles as a group and no one has individually achieved more global sales than Elvis Presley, Bing Crosby both with 1 billion albums . sold globally and Frank Sinatra has sold 500 - 600 million records globally, I am so impressed in the debates on Quora about the popularity of these guys, I should include Al Jolson who was the first artist to sell 10 million records globally. In the 10S, a surprising actor for the time, I also don't find Patti Page the best-selling female artist since the 50s, Julio Iglesias, world famous, in fact has been the best-selling artist in China, Cliff Richard must be included.

This list must necessarily include Bing Crosby, it's that simple and with the corresponding figures equal to Frank Sinatra. 2800:BF0:170:B69:7DA7:3C51:9B94:7138 (talk) 23:39, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Lack of credibility? yes, I agree. However, I also would like to point out that it is a work in progress. I haven't been contributing lately due to the fact that some of the editors are still gathering information and learning about the subject at hand. I am a political science and history teacher with a law degree. Moreover, apart from engaging in tutorial services in my daily living, my level of education has also made me aware that when I ask certain questions about the nature of any political, history or current affair topic, the majority of the students may not be suitable to give me a response or are not aware of the different subjects at hand. It is, to reiterate, a learning process and a work in progress to be able to divulge facts through a cohesive, coherent grammatical or verbal accurate response based on factuality to any question. This is one of the reasons that I somewhat vociferously (without offending) defended maintaining this article. Moreover, I also agree with your point that "the previous history cannot be analyzed from the current perspective". And that we all seek objectivity based on trustworthiness and factuality. More and into the point, no one has sold more units than Elvis Presley as a soloist or The Beatles as a group. We know this; and both acts (especially Presley) have sold way over a billion records. Many of us have the documentation to prove it; I owned and have in my possession an incredible number of encyclopedic books and articles including but not limited to, as you stated, old copies of Guinness Book of World records dating back through the 1980's that will collaborate and agree on your point. However, getting back to the subject at hand; how many knowledgeable inquisitive people know firsthand, about this particular subject? let alone people or Wiki Editors who are still delving and gathering information about the complexity of this given endeavor? they may not be aware of who Bing Crosby was? Or Tino Rossi? who may have sold over 200 million albums and is one of the best-selling and mostly forgotten artist of all time. You mentioned Al Jolson and Patti Page, and their historical content. And we can go on and on and on. Yes, Frank Sinatra's and Julio Iglesias claimed sales are dubious and are in need of proper adjustments, perhaps through knowledgeable contributors like you who can point out certain discrepancies that need correction. All in all, and your points well taken, with all due respect, we need to give this article a chance to improve itself. I can also point out the faulty computations of the RIAA which only counts and tabulates certified levels. To be fair this applies to all entertainers. However, an artist such as Elvis Presley who has released so many units, loses millions in sales of albums and singles; for the RIAA omits in between levels of Gold, Platinum and Multiplatinum levels of sales certifications. If you combine all these sales including the albums which have not reached the 500 thousand thresholds needed in order to be certified, Presley surpasses by a long shot every other act away, including Garth Brooks and The Beatles who are being posted erroneously as selling more albums than Presley. And yet are we to discard or eradicate the RIAA best-selling list? Well so far everyone uses it as a reference, including but not limited to, The World Almanac and the Guinness Book of World records. In closing my friend, the Wikipedia's Best-selling artist list is a work in progress needing feedback from contributors like us so the Wiki Editors can make the proper adjustments and modifications for improvements so avid readers can obtain a valid reference from this article and page. Let's give them a chance. Victor0327 (talk) 16:44, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Record sales are a minefield, sadly. Perhaps industry measurement for record sales in their time was different, as it is today with the streaming era. We have people who believe record labels are the most trustworthy sources because they know firsthand their artists' sales, but we also have examples of record labels inflating sales for promotional purposes, or some have compared record labels' sales reports to COI. If we move forward with that approach, perhaps assuming that an artist like Crosby even sold 1.2/1.5 billion records "according to his label,"  we might infuriate others. Even if a claim came from a newspaper. We also have plenty of artists with reported sales of over 75 million but haven't been added to the list, and some are perhaps little known by average consumers, and those with higher claims, of maybe over 200 million, can surprise others, especially if they are above of artists like, idk, The Rolling Stones. Take additional examples, like a few albums with claimed sales of over 50 million in big markets alone, like China or India; if we add them to the best-selling albums list, someone else can dispute it too. With the increase of Chinese market and streaming figures, a hypothetical future example of an album or single selling over 150 million, can be also disputed; a similar situation occurred with a Chinese single "selling over" 50 million "sales" in the best-selling singles list. Back with this list, there exist artists with uncertified works, for sure. Both of you are welcome to elaborate how the list can be improved; perhaps, we could borrowed minor approaches from other existing lists, but will need a consensus to effect a major change/restructure the list. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:25, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and your point is also well taken. However, we cannot just dispute the validity of "all" record labels claimed sales, in this particular case, for one, namely "Decca" (Crosby's record label) by stating without irrefutable evidence that the sales have been inflated for promotional purposes. Also, and more and into the point, a major troubling issue, one of a handful, is being the omission of Bing Crosby from this Wikipedia best-selling artist list, as he has been omitted from this particular list. That is more than just troubling, it is irresponsible Wikipedia journalism. Let us consider some of the facts; 150 to 200 million sales from one single alone, according to an unaccountable number of reputable sources, that being for the single of "White Christmas" written by Irvin Berlin and recorded by Bing Crosby in the 1940's. This song was (as you are perhaps aware) a global sales phenomenon, to state the least. We cannot be just so dismissive for fear of infuriating others especially when there is an overwhelming amount of information contrary to the "inflated sales" point of view being replicated and used, by a handful of Wiki editors. It would also hamper the erroneous belief that Crosby's sales have been "inflated" by his record label for "promotional Purposes". Crosby's claimed sales stand at 550 million, way before Nielsen or SoundScan originated, (they were introduced in the 1990's) as you are probably aware, Crosby started selling records in 1926. We cannot just be so dismissive of the facts. Don't you think? Like the individual (whose brief I responded to) stated; "we cannot preclude the previous history from the current perspective" which is what got this article in trouble to begin with. We cannot, in all fairness, have this article be nominated for deletion again and again and sadly, again. Another major point of concern? is Elvis Presley's claimed sales. 500 million? really? this claimed sales consensus being reached by some Wikipedia editors whom with all due respect, reached a bogus consensus in the Presley Wiki talk page. Again, dismissing hundreds of factual documents and press releases, let alone RCA and BMG (Presley's labels) who both coincided with this Presley's unit sales phenomenon report. These Wiki Editors who are perhaps in all fairness, limited by knowledgeable circumstances have irresponsibly stated without fact or evidence that Presley' sales have been "inflated. I respectfully ask, is this ethical? also, is it for fear of infuriating who? perhaps and this is not an accusation; some Wiki editors, and not all, are lacking the essential knowledge about the subject at hand in order to formulate a valid conclusive determination. Well in this case that's understandable. It is as I stated, a learning process. But regardless, we cannot just, to reiterate, be so dismissive as to the point of just obscuring these vital issues. Presley's claimed sales of over a billion units in all formats have been factually established since the 1980's by hundreds of newspaper articles, magazines and press releases, including but not limited to, CNN, Billboard, Time Life Books, The Guinness Book of World Records and hundreds more of respected newspaper, magazine, and literary articles, let alone RCA and later BMG, (Presley's record labels) who vociferously defended the billion sales claims. They have concluded this argument with a factual thesis; correctly pointing out the 299 RIAA certificates awarded to Presley in the United States alone, for albums and singles, more than any other recording act in the history of music, that will dispute this erroneous "inflated figures" argument. In closing, I can amplify the errors that this list/article needs correction. However, I will stop here, thanking you for your response and professional courtesy, and for your invitation to elaborate on how this list can be improved. Once again, thank you. Victor0327 (talk) 11:21, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

150 to 200 million? All the reliable sources I've seen say 50 million. Richard3120 (talk) 14:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

   This article is so incorrect and vague ( Bing Crosby ? Elvis Presley ? The Beatles ? Frank Sinatra ? )

Elvis Presley sold more than 1 billion records worldwide The Beatles the same sold Over 1 billion records worldwide , Bing Crosby sold 1 billion récords worldwide and Sinatra more than 500 millions worldwide . Nobody sold more than them. That's true 2800:BF0:170:B69:5C26:9624:139F:1B2E (talk) 01:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

And yet this article with the collaborations of contributors like yourself, pointing out these deficiencies will help these very capable Wiki editors make the necessary modifications and adjustments that through time will correct these and other discrepancies. As I pointed out in the previous brief, and to reiterate, this is a work in progress that in time will strive in endeavoring very satisfactory results for all of us readers and contributors. In closing, this directory list of Best-selling music artists will be an excellent point of reference article. Victor0327 (talk) 02:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)