Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games
Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks
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FAC looking for reviews
Heyo, my FAC for Teardown is currently looking for reviews. I can reciprocate with FA/GA/PR reviews if you need. Please find the FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Teardown (video game)/archive1. Cheers! IceWelder [✉] 13:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Will take a look at it. Vacant0 (talk) 13:33, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- My offer/plea remains intact if anyone is still interested! IceWelder [✉] 15:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Metroid games and genres
I've seen this referenced in a few Metroid articles that suggest to read the discussion from ten (!) years ago here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 104#FPS vs First person action adventure. While I generally agree with personally, the genre has since been applied across almost all the Metroid game articles since and most of them had no citations to back it up. This becomes especially problematic to just make a bold sweep of these, as the reception to games like Metroid Prime 3 have said that it played more like a shooter game than the others. These all require sources, and I'm surprised they lasted this long as so many of them are featured articles and good articles.
The previous discussion wasn't backed up by any sources and sort of just what I'd describe as "feeling it out", so I'm just sort of re-bringing it up as the last discussion did not come up with a solution that follows WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:SUBJECTIVE. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would think that the logical genres for most Metroid games is metroidvania, with the bulk being also platforms, while the Prime series being FPS (in the same way Portal is a puzzle game and FPS).
While action adventure may apply, the more specific subgenre of metroidvania is clear here. — Masem (t) 20:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)- Two points to follow these up.
- It is not clear, because the term Metroidvania only explains what kind of game it is is you are familiar with what the genre entails, so we need sources regardless. Its also a bit an anachronism to call anything before the 2000s a metroidvania, because the term was not in use before then. This isn't a WP:SKYISBLUE moment, as most people outside people who are familiar with the topic of Metroid would know what a metroidvania is. It's a pretty bad term in the sense that you have to be already familiar with the subject in order to decipher its meaning.
- Second, this is exactly what I was talking about, we don't just get to assume "well its obvious". we still need a source per the rules mentioned above. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- To address the first point, I think with genres, where do allow retroactive use of genre names, as long as that is consistent with the broad picture in RSes. We don't, for example, call games like Marathon or Hexen as "Doom clones" despite that being thd term used at the time those games were released. Also we don't worry about familiarity with genre.. That's why they are blue linked in case the reader needs to find out. — Masem (t) 21:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- That's probably fair for contemporary reading, but that there's other issues with us just saying "well its ____ genre" and looking for one source and calling it a day as that would go against WP:WEIGHT. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- In the case of the Metroid games as a whole, it's likely easier to find a source that broadly categories the games in the series as metroidvania than to find genre classifications for individual games. And to that end Id think we'd want consistency (that at least adheres to rs coverage of the series) than a mess involving nitpicking exactness to one or two sources. — Masem (t) 22:33, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- That's probably fair for contemporary reading, but that there's other issues with us just saying "well its ____ genre" and looking for one source and calling it a day as that would go against WP:WEIGHT. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- To address the first point, I think with genres, where do allow retroactive use of genre names, as long as that is consistent with the broad picture in RSes. We don't, for example, call games like Marathon or Hexen as "Doom clones" despite that being thd term used at the time those games were released. Also we don't worry about familiarity with genre.. That's why they are blue linked in case the reader needs to find out. — Masem (t) 21:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Two points to follow these up.
- This won't be a popular opinion, but this is why it's bad to organize an encyclopedia using neologisms and marketing terms. You'll find that sources are more consistent if you focus on less trendy names, particularly when Metroid and Castlevania games were simply called action-adventure games. It's fine to note their later marketing as metroidvanias in the prose, but because this will be inconsistent, it's better to avoid this for categorization. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- See this is the issue with going by assumptions of what things are/were called among press.
- 1980s:
- "Another one of those famous platform arcade adventures" source
- Computer Entertainer (1987): "Adventure fans will have a wonderful time with this solid and well constructed adventure. [...] If you enjoy action_ adventures, don’t miss this one!" source
- Retrospective:
- AllGame: "Shooter -> Style Platform Shooter" [1]
- IGN: " The game is an action/platformer, a side-scroller that puts you in the role of galactic bounty hunter Samus Aran." here
- GameSpot: "Genre: Action" here
- GameSpot: "the overall package just doesn't measure up to today's action adventure standards." here
- GameSpot: "rendition of Metroid was considered a classic in the 2D action adventure genre." here.
- So from this, action adventure does come off a bit more, but there are several other terms used which don't seem clear to me. In this case it's good, but this is why we need to go by a case by case basis for these things. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- It helps that platforms are categorized as a type of action game, so platform adventure is at least verifiable as a type of action adventure. Shooterwalker (talk) 10:48, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
- Uhh maybe, but no source here calls it that. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- It helps that platforms are categorized as a type of action game, so platform adventure is at least verifiable as a type of action adventure. Shooterwalker (talk) 10:48, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at this? Article is already loaded with unreliable sources, but it also have COI and OWN issues. The editor, who is apparently Douglas kept reverting edits that he doesn't like. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 03:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
While I agree that this is a pretty apparent case of COI and should be dealt with, this actor has absolutely nothing to do with video games. He has never done voice work for a video game, and he's not even under this project. I don't really see how he's relevant to us specifically.(Nevermind, apparently he has) He might be relevant to Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga, though. I'd also recommend bringing this up at the conflict of interest noticeboard. λ NegativeMP1 03:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)- He actually voiced two video game characters (and is known to voice Wesker), but I guess I may be wrong. Since I already posted here, I don't think its necessary to expound more. 🍕Boneless Pizza!🍕 (🔔) 04:08, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Disambig needed for Striker (video game)?
Given https://www.mobygames.com/game/33720/striker/ ? Assuming it is notable - I am having hard time finding sources... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Doesn't need disambig unless an article is created and that 1985 game is very likely non-notable. --Mika1h (talk) 19:29, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's a bunch of things at Striker though, and there's no way it's the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC... Sergecross73 msg me 19:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I misunderstood then, thought this was about disambig between 2 games. Mika1h (talk) 20:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Honestly, I'm not sure I'm following either, that's why I didn't say anything more than what I did... Sergecross73 msg me 20:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I misunderstood then, thought this was about disambig between 2 games. Mika1h (talk) 20:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Are we sure it is non-notable? Granted, I am having trouble finding sources beyond [2] (is this even reliable?), but to be sure, we would need to look at magazine reviews from that era, and I am not sure how to do this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Do we know who developed or published this game? Typing "Derek Williams Striker" in search on Newspapers.com or Internet Archive doesn't bring up anything. Timur9008 (talk) 08:42, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, I'm relatively sure it's notable. It was a popular series with a bunch of entries in thr pre-internet era. I'm still confused where this discussion is heading though. Sergecross73 msg me 10:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that articles made over 10 years ago might have been alright with zero or one sources. If this happened today, it would almost certainly lead to the page being deleted, merged or sent to draft. We have loads of pages without a single source and they still survive mainly because its obscure and even when people read them, they don't do anything (nominate for deletion, edit, discuss, etc). Now, at least three independent reliable sources is required.. JuniperChill (talk) 11:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- To clarify, I'm not confused about our notability standards, I'm confused as to what this discussion is asking. No offense to Piotrus, but they, in my opinion, just haven't really given this discussion enough direction. Is this an article name discussion? Article scope question? Notability discussion? Something else? There's a bit of a disconnect between the section title and the question posed that's not helping either.
- The article itself isn't helping. Its a bit difficult if all these titles constitute a series of games, or just a ton of ports of the same game. Or something in between. But regardless, I don't believe complete deletion is the answer. For example, the Sega Genesis entry received magazine coverage. The Game Gear version did too. Sergecross73 msg me 12:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just making clear the 1985 shooter game that doesn't even have an article yet is not notable. I don't think anyone here questions the notability of Striker (video game), which is about a football game. --Mika1h (talk) 13:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sigh, I didn't even notice that the Wikipedia and MobyGames links did not refer to the same games, though that only raises more questions as to what going on in this discussion... Sergecross73 msg me 14:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, my question is whether anyone can locate sources for estabilishing notability of that 1985 game? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I can't find anything, no reviews listed at MobyGames oder UVL, seemingly nothing at Archive.org --Mika1h (talk) 17:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking. I am mildly surprised, but oh well :( Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- I can't find anything, no reviews listed at MobyGames oder UVL, seemingly nothing at Archive.org --Mika1h (talk) 17:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well, my question is whether anyone can locate sources for estabilishing notability of that 1985 game? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sigh, I didn't even notice that the Wikipedia and MobyGames links did not refer to the same games, though that only raises more questions as to what going on in this discussion... Sergecross73 msg me 14:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Just making clear the 1985 shooter game that doesn't even have an article yet is not notable. I don't think anyone here questions the notability of Striker (video game), which is about a football game. --Mika1h (talk) 13:56, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think that articles made over 10 years ago might have been alright with zero or one sources. If this happened today, it would almost certainly lead to the page being deleted, merged or sent to draft. We have loads of pages without a single source and they still survive mainly because its obscure and even when people read them, they don't do anything (nominate for deletion, edit, discuss, etc). Now, at least three independent reliable sources is required.. JuniperChill (talk) 11:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's a bunch of things at Striker though, and there's no way it's the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC... Sergecross73 msg me 19:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
If you have noticed a spike in recent edits at Esports Task Force, that's mostly me (anonymously, all 2601:47:100) extensively improving the titular article for the last 3 days (and failing to get semiprotected edit requests fulfilled). Suffice to say, there's still a need to work on it to get it to B-class and then GA, and I'll appreciate your contributions there to get the article to meet the requirements (I don't want to make more mistakes than I already have). 2601:47:100:AC40:A03E:AD3E:5E2C:4246 (talk) 12:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- This was just mentioned that the article was assessed and tagged C on June 26 by Valoem. It looked like this. Last edit was just minutes ago by me that further improved the article to my extent of understanding. Going forward, I'll like consensus from others. 2601:47:100:AC40:98EF:83CD:FB7F:C5E8 (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Then it isn't. Rock & roll is not dead added a paragraph on Dr Disrespect and Kick (service); there was contention over this.
Should I do anything about it?2601:47:100:AC40:7BE2:9D9D:AF50:A40E (talk) 15:42, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Then it isn't. Rock & roll is not dead added a paragraph on Dr Disrespect and Kick (service); there was contention over this.
There's nothing wrong with what was added, as long what is within Wikipedia policy, WP:EDITING, it's fair game. I have contributed to the Dr Disrespect page before.(Rock & roll is not dead (talk) 16:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC))
- Noted. But my intent here is to get it to meet the criteria for B-class articles, and for members of the WikiProject here to help contribute. All in good faith, obviously. 2601:47:100:AC40:7BE2:9D9D:AF50:A40E (talk) 16:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Kind of proving otherwise, respectfully, since the sentences you wrote probably would be WP:UNDUE; my edits improved it to be more in-line with the surrounding paragraphs. 2601:47:100:AC40:7BE2:9D9D:AF50:A40E (talk) 16:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- And you're the one that wrote that Dr Disrespect called Twitch "slithery disgusting purple snakes" and with a WP:TOOLONG quote, which I shortened as requested. 2601:47:100:AC40:7BE2:9D9D:AF50:A40E (talk) 17:05, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Still seems like I'm the only contributor other than that one to have made some progress on the article and meeting the criteria. As it stands:
- Is it "suitably referenced, with inline citations"? - More than it did even days ago. 77 references.
- "Reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies"? - Definitely, but not everything apparently. There have been over 150 edits since the start of last month.
- "Has a defined structure" and is "reasonably well-written"? - As defined, mostly. Organized accordingly and written more formally in accordance with the relevant MOS, now with a note.
- "Contains supporting materials where appropriate"? - Just the infobox and 2 images (at the infobox and a section).
- And "presents its content in an appropriately understandable way"? - I think. Not the first time this was contentious.
- 2601:47:100:AC40:28B7:D9CA:15E5:CB40 (talk) 01:15, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Now looks like this. Well done, me... @PresN please inform interested participants. 2601:47:100:AC40:4277:307A:58FD:7F81 (talk) 17:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- For comparison. 2601:47:100:AC40:4277:307A:58FD:7F81 (talk) 17:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Between yesterday and today. 2601:47:100:AC40:9F92:6CA1:2927:BD7B (talk) 19:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Updated. 2601:47:100:AC40:DAF9:D5F9:63EE:7A8B (talk) 22:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Still seems like I'm the only contributor other than that one to have made some progress on the article and meeting the criteria. As it stands:
This is incredibly difficult to follow - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 23:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- In essence, I got Dr Disrespect to meet the criteria for B-class articles. Little help improving it like I have. Just need someone to confirm that it does. 2601:47:100:AC40:2675:8BBB:52F0:7B02 (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikipedia, and congratulations on working on your first article. Looks like you did some cleanup and copyediting, which is always helpful. Consider making an account so people can find you again- if nothing else, it will make your signature shorter. That said: 1) Non-peer-reviewed classifications don't really matter, and it's best not to obsess over them; if you think it's a B then sure. 2) It's not a B in my opinion. Choppy paragraphs, choppy sentences, a flow so close to WP:Proseline that it's almost uncanny, and most of all almost no information about the person that isn't just a list of controversies. 3) There's really no reason to post a stream of consciousness log as you go- if you have a question or want feedback, just post once please; there's 40,000+ articles just in video games alone so there's always a lot going on. 4) Why did you tag me? I have no connection with this asshole or his article, and don't know how I'd go about "inform[ing] interested participants" that you made the article a bit better beyond your post here. --PresN 02:42, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, to expand on this, as I often tell people, this Wikiproject is great for asking questions or getting quick advice, but we all are pretty busy with our own pet projects and generally aren't really looking for new ideas for things to work on. I'd need more hours in the day to take on more writing. And that said...while I can't speak for everyone, I personally have no interest in writing about these ridiculous, over-the-top gaming personalities. Doubly so with someone with the allegations against him he's got going on at the moment. Sergecross73 msg me 02:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ironically someone did some more improvements overnight.
- Anyway, thanks for your inputs. But I should clarify that I’ve been a anon contributor for over 12 years, so this isn’t my first article that I managed to work on intensely (and I’m still not good at that); I’ll respectfully prefer remaining that way. To answer your points: 1st. Well, the article might be up for peer-review if that’s necessary to get to B. Likewise I know it will be if it’s going to become a GA. 2nd. You’re right, there’s a proseline throughout the Career section, but I was focused on improving the readability of the article. About those controversies: Indeed, there was a section like that for Ninja, but apparently it was not well cited and removed at some point before this year. Imo, it’s important to at least mention them beyond those interviews, but I’m unsure how exactly. 3rd. I apologize for that, but I was trying to bring some attention to this in case participants are interested (and understandably you’re not). And 4th. I also think so about him admitting to such thing; I’ve even suggest that’s the most disgraceful of his controversies. Ultimately, though, he’s been notable since at least 2018, and more so since 2020 when he was banned for it.
- Still, I’ll like to have consensus on future improvements to it, and perhaps look at other livestreamers like him that might need it, even if they don’t. 2601:47:100:AC40:70F9:13E6:59DA:D133 (talk) 09:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Semiprotected, again, until Aug 4. At least I did enough. 2601:47:100:AC40:80DD:5DAC:31A1:B30C (talk) 00:06, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, to expand on this, as I often tell people, this Wikiproject is great for asking questions or getting quick advice, but we all are pretty busy with our own pet projects and generally aren't really looking for new ideas for things to work on. I'd need more hours in the day to take on more writing. And that said...while I can't speak for everyone, I personally have no interest in writing about these ridiculous, over-the-top gaming personalities. Doubly so with someone with the allegations against him he's got going on at the moment. Sergecross73 msg me 02:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Welcome to Wikipedia, and congratulations on working on your first article. Looks like you did some cleanup and copyediting, which is always helpful. Consider making an account so people can find you again- if nothing else, it will make your signature shorter. That said: 1) Non-peer-reviewed classifications don't really matter, and it's best not to obsess over them; if you think it's a B then sure. 2) It's not a B in my opinion. Choppy paragraphs, choppy sentences, a flow so close to WP:Proseline that it's almost uncanny, and most of all almost no information about the person that isn't just a list of controversies. 3) There's really no reason to post a stream of consciousness log as you go- if you have a question or want feedback, just post once please; there's 40,000+ articles just in video games alone so there's always a lot going on. 4) Why did you tag me? I have no connection with this asshole or his article, and don't know how I'd go about "inform[ing] interested participants" that you made the article a bit better beyond your post here. --PresN 02:42, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (June 24 to June 30)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 14:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Gepard: 3D Engine, Gepard (game engine), Flying Tiger Development, FreshGames, Second Intention, ZenGems, Mario Party (disambiguation), Variable State, 8XR (game engine)
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Elekity, Draft:Eyes – The Horror Game, Draft:Jacob Norris (3D Artist), Draft:The Kittyrooms Level 0, Draft:Claytopia, Draft:Eastasiasoft, Draft:Jesse McNamara, Draft:Lords of the Sound, Draft:SpeedBLOX, Draft:Dungeonhunter6, Draft:A Twisted Path To Renown, Draft:My Perfect Console, Draft:The History of Synthwave, Draft:RENNSPORT, Draft:TikTok's impact on music
- Articles redirected: Atlantis: The Lost Empire – Search for the Journal, Giant Sparrow, Ivy Road, List of Pink Panther games, The Narrator (The Stanley Parable), Seth (Street Fighter), Tornado Studios
- Articles moved to draft space: Butterfly, Dragon Ball Legends, Lumber Tycoon(games serie), Untitled Mario Kart game
- Categories deleted/removed: Battlestar Galactica games, Drake & Josh video games, Video games by content, Rail shooters by series, Video game variants, Emergency simulation
- Templates deleted/removed: {{Worms series}}
- New categories: Battlestar Galactica video games — (Oinkers42), Interactive fiction engines — QuantumFoam66, Krentek Software games — Waxworker, Tetragon games — Waxworker, Interactive fiction games — QuantumFoam66, Micromega games — Waxworker, Video games featuring villain protagonists — QuantumFoam66, Hitman (franchise) games — Mika1h, IO Interactive games — Mika1h, Brightrock Games games — Waxworker, Douze Dixièmes games — Waxworker, Stormind Games games — Waxworker, Video games about contract killers — Mika1h, Odin Computer Graphics games — Waxworker, Video games about aircraft — QuantumFoam66, Works about arcade video games — QuantumFoam66
June 24
June 25
— BOZ
— UsaSatsui (newly tagged – originally created 14 years ago)
— Damieng (newly tagged – originally created 18 years ago)
— Niwi3 (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
— Niwi3 (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
— Captain Galaxy (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
June 26
— Valoem (newly tagged – originally created 6 years ago)
June 27
— Soulbust (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— 31.111.86.95 (previously a draft)
— Squiddyonwiki (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Ryan York (was previously a redirect)
— Marisoft69
— Ryan York (was previously a redirect)
June 28
— Soulbust (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
June 29
June 30
— Comrade Graham
— Comrade Graham
— Comrade Graham
— Comrade Graham
— Comrade Graham
— Lamoxlamae (newly tagged – originally created 14 years ago)
— Comrade Graham
— Acrom12
— Comrade Graham
Not seeing any reason for List of Epic Games Store giveaways to exist that weren't covered in its 2019 AfD... --PresN 14:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Does anyone know why BOZ is creating articles that rely on 1 or 2 sources again? Timur9008 (talk) 15:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Artikel plural? I only see GX Games, which by all accounts has more than barebones content and cites two in-depth relaible contemporary independent print sources. You're welcome to look for more sources to expand the content or AfD it if you believe it doesn't meet English Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 07:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nevermind sorry. I've seen Spin Out (video game) but then I realized that article was created in 2020. Timur9008 (talk) 07:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Artikel plural? I only see GX Games, which by all accounts has more than barebones content and cites two in-depth relaible contemporary independent print sources. You're welcome to look for more sources to expand the content or AfD it if you believe it doesn't meet English Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 07:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- AFD on that EGS article started. Masem (t) 15:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
BG3
Is anyone going to make more articles about BG3 characters? Thanks 2600:1008:B175:3587:1D1:EAA8:70DC:1CC4 (talk) 19:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I mean eventually yes but what's preventing you from doing so?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh that would be cool, I like Karlach. Astarion has a really great article. Thanks 2600:1008:B175:3587:1D1:EAA8:70DC:1CC4 (talk) 19:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- Take a read through WP:FIRST and go for it. If you need any help, the teahouse is always there for assistance. - Skipple ☎ 20:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ok I will look at that. Thanks 2600:1008:B175:3587:1D1:EAA8:70DC:1CC4 (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Take a read through WP:FIRST and go for it. If you need any help, the teahouse is always there for assistance. - Skipple ☎ 20:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh that would be cool, I like Karlach. Astarion has a really great article. Thanks 2600:1008:B175:3587:1D1:EAA8:70DC:1CC4 (talk) 19:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Characters of Watch Dogs
Hey everyone! I'm planning to create a 'Characters of Watch Dogs' article as proposed by Jclemens in the recent deletion discussion of Aiden Pearce that ended with no consensus. I asked Jclemens whether he wanted to co-create the article with me which he respectfully declined as he had no knowledge on the subject. I tried the talk page of the Watch Dogs article with no response which was good as I was not free at the time. Now that I've emptied my plate a little, I'm planning to go ahead with the idea which is why I came here. I have played the first game and am heading out tomorrow to buy the second one to get some more experience on the subject. Anyone wants to co-create the article with me? MK at your service. 13:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I will suggest if you do this go with just prominent characters, but make sure first there is reception encompassing the *cast* of characters. Too many character lists end up collections of cruft with no underlying reception, which creates a huge problem for WP:LISTN.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 13:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your advice, I'll make sure the reception is not focused on the cast. MK at your service. 14:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @MKsLifeInANutshell: That is the complete opposite of what he said. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, sorry, my bad. I misread, thanks for informing me. MK at your service. 03:37, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- @MKsLifeInANutshell: That is the complete opposite of what he said. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:44, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your advice, I'll make sure the reception is not focused on the cast. MK at your service. 14:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good luck. I haven't seen much on "characters of Watch_Dogs"; our articles don't really mention the characters much at all. It's not a game series known for its characters. I personally don't have much hope for this article concept because of that, but I wish you the best of luck! ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
Infobox question
I noticed that due to their remakes Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story have two infoboxes in the same article as well as two box arts. I’m curious if that should be the case or if there should only be one of each? 67.70.101.117 (talk) 05:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- We tend to not have two infoboxes, especially not have two boxarts unless it can be shown that both boxarts are important to show, which is rarely true. I've elected to remove them as not contributing to the articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cukie Gherkin (talk • contribs) 05:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Prepare to have those reverted. I tried merging infoboxes at Mario vs. Donkey Kong some time ago but it was soon reverted... --Mika1h (talk) 09:29, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Proposal to split - Unreal Engine
I propose spiting Unreal Engine into 6 articles: Unreal Engine, Unreal Engine 1, Unreal Engine 2, Unreal Engine 3, Unreal Engine 4 and Unreal Engine 5. Sources always discuss games using Unreal Engine by it's version. For example no outlet would say that Tekken 8 was made in Unreal Engine, they would only say it is made in Unreal Engine 5. In this sense the individual Unreal versions are more notable than Unreal itself, as the versions are what is reported on. Consider also that the main "Unreal Engine" article has as many redirect links to it via links like Unreal Engine 4 as the Unreal Engine link itself. (via https://linkcount.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&page=Unreal+Engine). And many of the direct links to Unreal Engine are of the form [[Unreal Engine|Unreal Engine 2]]. Similarly when discussing Unreal Engine in it's own right nobody talks about "learning Unreal Engine." The differences between versions are vast, with completely different rendering engines, physics, scripting languages and UI tools. It's not like eg. Photoshop where the core features have mostly stayed the same. Then the Unreal Engine article will have just one history section that has a one paragraph subsection for each Unreal version. I'm willing to do the split myself as well as add more detail to each engine using a bunch of articles I found while researching Unreal Engine in order to make the sections larger. If necessary I can add those details first to bring the word count of the current Unreal Engine article to 6,000 first. But first I'd like to get some feedback on the idea. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 16:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think you might be able to justify UE4 and UE5 as separate articles but not sure on the earlier versions if there is enough secondary coverage to give reason to split from the main engine article. And I am surprised (without checking) if the redirects don't go to the proper section as they are current on that page. Masem (t) 18:12, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is a lot of coverage on UE1 already in the main article. I have also found the following sources in my research of Unreal Engine mainly focusing on UE3 and to a lesser extent UE2 and UE4 https://pastebin.com/4TY1TKFQ. Also, yes, redirects do go to the proper section, I was just showing how nobody really talks about UE on it's own. They redirect but my point is that other articles (and therefore the sources that they are using) are more interested in specific UE versions than "Unreal Engine" generally. Which is not necessarily the case for other engines like Unity or Red Engine. Unless you are referring to the part about "many of the direct links to Unreal Engine are of the form [[Unreal Engine|Unreal Engine 2]]"? here is an example of that: Brothers_in_Arms_(video_game_series) J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:PAGEDECIDE, I would caution against fractionating a healthy and well developed article into 6 stubs. A tremendous amount of each page would need to be devoted to background and history, which would be largely identical between pages, and force readers to navigate between pages to get the full picture. What advantage does splitting provide that can't be done with the single page already? What's the problem with simply improving the current article? It's not anywhere near the prose size split recommendations. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:16, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, we should only split articles like this if the content (currently) warrants it. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:52, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think any of the articles would be considered stubs which per Wikipedia:Stub is generally considered to be 250 words/1500 characters with a practical maximum 500 words. The current article is unwieldy because it has to put all the information about the different engine versions in a massive ~3700 word history section. This is because all the previous engine versions are not relevant to the current iteration of unreal engine 5. If it was split you could separate the history aspects from the features aspect as well a as have a lead for each engine which makes it easier for users to read. For example, Nanite and Lumen should both have their own sections within UE5 as they has received independent coverage by news outlets. But that doesn't fit well into the current article structure. My guess is that most people on the Unreal Engine page are looking to read about a specific version used to make a game they were reading about eg. from the engine field in the video game infobox or they are looking to read about EU5 which is ~3,000 words down from the top of the page. Consider also the Scripting section which includes UnrealScript which has been discontinued for more than a decade but is for some reason not in the history section. The page reads strangely to me which is why it should be split. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 17:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- If I may, why don't you just prioritize one engine at a time? It's not a race, after all, and with each split, we can see how it looks. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm willing to do that. As a new contributor I'm looking for feedback on the idea. If nobody thinks it's a good idea then I won't do it. I guess it makes sense to start with Unreal Engine 5 as it would be weird to start with eg. EU3. I want to wait a bit for for others to comment though before I do anything. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Cukie could be on to something - splits like this are a lot of work and the worse one does it, the more likely others may object and undo it. It could be more persuasive to start with one really well done split and take it form there. Sergecross73 msg me 19:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Echoing Serge, feel free to make good faith WP:BOLD improvements directly to the current article, or incubate a draft of UE5 in draftspace/your userspace. This is a big undertaking any way you slice it. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thirding. Let's try one and see how much it can be expanded. Masem (t) 22:32, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Got it. I will report back when one of the drafts is ready. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 23:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Here is what I have so far: Draft:Unreal Engine 3. I chose UE3 because UE1, 4 and 5 are easy being that they are already long enough to be their own articles (UE1 and 5 especially). I increased the word count from ~450 to 752. I used 5 new sources, the main ones being https://web.archive.org/web/20060209030429/http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/sweeneyue3/ https://www.anandtech.com/show/1645/3 and https://www.eurogamer.net/i-epicgames2-june04. I added previously uncovered information about mulithreading and DirectX 9, among other topics. Edit(02:25, 10 July 2024): Here is the draft for UE5: Draft:Unreal Engine 5. I have not made any serious changes to this article besides fixing some obvious unsourced claims/factual errors and moving the the paragraphs into sections. A big issue with the UE5 section in the main UE article as it stands is that the paragraphs are in a seemingly random order, and some sentences seem to fit better in other paragraphs/sections than they are currently placed in. It currently already has 936 words. I expect I will add another 250-350 words, mostly about Lumen, Streaming assets and direct storage, which seem to be lacking in coverage.J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 01:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- That draft definitely shows potential. If you can make all of the individual engines like that or better, we can probably split them all. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:15, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm willing to do that. As a new contributor I'm looking for feedback on the idea. If nobody thinks it's a good idea then I won't do it. I guess it makes sense to start with Unreal Engine 5 as it would be weird to start with eg. EU3. I want to wait a bit for for others to comment though before I do anything. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- If I may, why don't you just prioritize one engine at a time? It's not a race, after all, and with each split, we can see how it looks. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:PAGEDECIDE, I would caution against fractionating a healthy and well developed article into 6 stubs. A tremendous amount of each page would need to be devoted to background and history, which would be largely identical between pages, and force readers to navigate between pages to get the full picture. What advantage does splitting provide that can't be done with the single page already? What's the problem with simply improving the current article? It's not anywhere near the prose size split recommendations. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:16, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is a lot of coverage on UE1 already in the main article. I have also found the following sources in my research of Unreal Engine mainly focusing on UE3 and to a lesser extent UE2 and UE4 https://pastebin.com/4TY1TKFQ. Also, yes, redirects do go to the proper section, I was just showing how nobody really talks about UE on it's own. They redirect but my point is that other articles (and therefore the sources that they are using) are more interested in specific UE versions than "Unreal Engine" generally. Which is not necessarily the case for other engines like Unity or Red Engine. Unless you are referring to the part about "many of the direct links to Unreal Engine are of the form [[Unreal Engine|Unreal Engine 2]]"? here is an example of that: Brothers_in_Arms_(video_game_series) J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 18:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Masem @Axem Titanium @Dissident93 @Cukie Gherkin @Sergecross73 @QuicoleJR
- Update on current progress:Draft:Unreal Engine 1 Draft:Unreal Engine 2 Draft:Unreal Engine 3 Draft:Unreal Engine 4 Draft:Unreal Engine 5
- UE1: added one extra section on licensing. 995 words
- UE2: added section on dx8 and GPU support, multiplatform. ~450-> 678 words.
- UE3: Added a lot of info bringing the word count from ~450 to 752. Mainly about multithreading and DX9.
- UE4: Added section about PBR materials and the new UI toolkit. 851->1,087 words
- UE5: Only split the current UE5 section into categories like history, nanite, lumen etc. Will add more soon
- I haven't given much thought to the ledes and would like feedback first before putting time into them as they aren't content sections.
- More on the need to split:
- One of the worst aspects of these sections as they are now in the Unreal Engine is not the length of the sections but how they are organized (or not organized). For example, in UE4, in the middle of six otherwise continuous paragraphs about licensing, there is a paragraph about improvements to UE4's netcode created for Fortnite. In UE5, the "billions of polygons" paragraph uses a statement about nanite and applies it to the PS5. In general I imagine its hard to keep track of the article because it often switches between semantic and chronological order. The only solution is to have semantic sections such as history, features, licensing etc, at which point you've created entire articles within the history section, which seems ineffective. Also, most users are on mobile, and they must scroll through UE1, 2, 3, and 4 to read about UE5, at which point they can easily get lost in the way I already described.
- Adding more to UE5 should be very easy, and creating UE1 will also not be difficult as a lot has been written about it already and I have also found new sources on it. So I'd like to get feedback on what I have so far. I will be able to continue at the beginning of next week and should be able to complete the project entirely by the end of that week.
- P.S. I am pinging for visibility, sorry to inconvenience any of you. I look forward to your input. J2UDY7r00CRjH (talk) 07:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
- Its absolutely fair that separate from trying to create drafts on the individual versions, to disentangle the mix between history and semantic aspects. eg: licensing aspects of UE should likely stay on the main engine page. The licensing hasn't followed the engine releases specifically, and more on Epic's own history so it makes sense its separate. — Masem (t) 13:48, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (July 1 to July 7)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 19:42, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Spaceballs (demogroup), Antix (video game), ESPN Online Games, Xonix, HLSW, List of Android games, Small Worlds (presentation), List of Skibidi Toilet episodes
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Jack Andell, Draft:Super Mario RPG (2023 video game), Draft:Combat Master, Draft:Farming Simulator 2023, Draft:Run 3, Draft:PasoGo, Draft:TheoTown, Draft:Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost, Draft:William Afton
- Articles redirected: Backflip Studios, Relentless Studios, Haytham Kenway, MIL-CD, Ornstein and Smough, Petpet Park, David Byttow, Vertin (Reverse: 1999), Football Madness
- Categories deleted/removed: Permadeath games, Video games featuring Sylvester the Cat
- New categories: Hybrid characters in video games — AHI-3000 (newly tagged - originally created 8 months ago), Pokémon species introduced in Pokémon Scarlet and Violet — QuicoleJR (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Video games about monsters — AHI-3000 (newly tagged - originally created 2 months ago), Video games about mummies — AHI-3000 (newly tagged - originally created 2 months ago), Video games set in heaven — Reaper The God Of Games (newly tagged - originally created 8 months ago), Avant-Garde Creations games — Waxworker, Video game terminology stubs — QuantumFoam66, Unreal Engine 1 games — J2UDY7r00CRjH, Unreal Engine 2 games — J2UDY7r00CRjH, Unreal Engine 3 games — J2UDY7r00CRjH, Unreal Engine 4 games — J2UDY7r00CRjH, Video games directed by Yeo — Mika1h
July 1
July 2
— JuniperLightning (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Ned Scott (newly tagged – originally created 17 years ago)
July 3
— Naomimyu (previously a draft)
— Timur9008
— Dbaechtel (newly tagged – originally created 16 years ago)
— KaiSulyma (newly tagged – originally created 11 months ago)
July 4
— MrKaraRocks
— Caseyg109 (newly tagged – originally created 16 years ago)
— Cloud atlas
July 5
— Kung Fu Man (was previously a redirect)
— Timur9008
— Paimon123 (was previously a redirect)
— MKsLifeInANutshell
July 6
— Zxcvbnm
July 7
— ThanatosApprentice (previously a draft – moved out 16 days ago: undrafted by original creator)
Watch Dogs: Legion
Anyone with experience on Watch Dogs: Legion free to help out on Draft:Characters of Watch Dogs? MK at your service. 12:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Sega templates
Anyone else feel that Template:Sega and Template:Sega Sammy Holdings are a mess after recent edits? Unlinked text, redirects, Sammy template has an interesting choice of including a template within a template. Template:Sega hardware was created by the same user who made these edits. I'd suggest reverting to these previous versions: [3], [4] and redirecting Sega hardware template to Sega template. Mika1h (talk) 16:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, they look awful. They don't seem to be that active - no one's edited them since May - so I'd say go right ahead and hack them up. Sergecross73 msg me 16:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Can I get some extra eyes on this? I did a big cleanup earlier this year, which I believe addressed the outstanding concerns brought up on the FAR page but Wikipedia is never finished after all. Additional comments are welcome, or feel free to improve the article directly too. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Regional cover art infobox caption
Would love to hear more thoughts at Talk:Grand Theft Auto (video game) regarding the use of an infobox image caption. Thanks! – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 11:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Lost Bethesda Softworks sources found
Hi all. So after years of searching the lost Bethesda Softworks Press Releases that were on Bethesda's website(https://web.archive.org/web/19970605100002/http://www.bethsoft.com/html/press.html) have finally been found [5]
Apparently they were uploaded to the Gale site recently so If anyone has access to the service it would be great to extract them before they are lost again.
Pinging User:IceWelder, User:JimmyBlackwing, User:Mika1h, User:ferret Timur9008 (talk) 10:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)