Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Cptnono

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Cptnono (talk) 22:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: Interaction ban with Nableezy. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Shuki, logged at [[1]]>

Administrator imposing the sanction: Timotheus Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by Cptnono

The interaction ban is based on the comment "Then you need to explain why you disregarded the admins suggestion on how to implement this. Stop going out of your way to start trouble." That was an attack in the very broadest definition. I do understand that "going out of your way" could be considered mean. I was pleading with editors to use the centralized discussion and the other comments made show this: [2][3][4][5][6] The centralized discussion was unraveling and it was a huge concern since we were so close to getting it figured out. In hindsight, I should have taken a step back since I was only feeding the fire in my attempt.

Nableezy and I do not have a good history and there is no question that I disagree with his behavior. That leads me to what I feel is a very important part of my appeal. I was so frustrated with different editor's (especially Nableezy's which is one reason I understand where the admins are coming from) behavior that I made the mistake of being grossly uncivil in the topic area. It was inappropriate and I received a short block and it was made clear that those comments were not appropriate. Just before and shortly after I received multiple comments from others expressing that this was a path they did not like seeing me go down. The block and those comments was a reminder to me of how to act. PhilKnight expressed on his talk page that he felt this interaction ban would be appropriate based on my history with Nableezy. I have already made the decision to show a renewed effort in any interaction. I understand that my single comment was off but it is not a serious violation according to the precedent set. I of course would be willing to go even farther with efforts to be civil if this appeal is successful based on the comments by the deciding admins. I feel that I learned from my past mistakes and that this interaction ban is an overreaction to that comment based on the poor history. If anyone else would have made that comment I do not think it would have raised eyebrows. However I do understand that we cannot forget my editing history.

@ LessHeard vanU: My intent if this is not successful would be to present evidence of better interaction in the topic area after sometime (3/6/12mos depending on how it goes). Kind of like WP:OFFER. However, I do not believe that is necessary. Although the vindicating myself is both needed and interesting, I would prefer not to do it with this over my head. Cptnono (talk) 23:12, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Timotheus Canens: I know it is annoying for you as well but I am the one receiving limitations on my interactions which I feel will cause more of a burden than a solution. Didn't mean to make my appeal too long.Cptnono (talk) 23:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see now. I'm actually surprised you aren't annoyed!Cptnono (talk) 23:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Sean: That hypothetical doesn't have any bearing on this and the comments made in the above discussion and the admin's talk pages show that it is not relevant. I would rather such conjecture on such possible scenarios not impact any decision. Even if it were to apply, my concern is not for any other editors in the topic area but my own. I'm not appealing this based on any worry of games being played or false feelings of me needing to police the topic area. My concern is that I am inhibited for reasoning that was already taken care of (assuming my one comment was not enough to warrant such action). I should be able to respond to comments at the centralized discussion. I shouldn't have to worry if an edit I am amending is that of someone I am banned from interacting with (or if going to talk as I would often prefer to do s a problem). Those are just two examples of what ifs and we know there will be more. Being better than I was is on me and no one else.Cptnono (talk) 06:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@George: Thanks, dude. You really should be commenting on the FAN and not here. George summarized my thoughts. And since this is my appeal I do want to point out that if more editors were like him (including myself) this would be a better topic area. I also should mention that although we sometimes come down on different sides argument wise in this topic area, we have worked over at the Sounders project so there is definitely some good history. I hope this does not discredit his words but wanted to make sure that everything was extra open.Cptnono (talk) 06:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Philknight: The last AE was incivility but none of the quotes were on Nableezy's page or directed towards him. It was inappropriate (that is why I was sanctioned) but should not have any impact on this unless my comment is considered completely out of line. Cptnono (talk) 20:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the quotes, that had nothing to do with this AE. Cptnono (talk) 20:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done groveling over this. Close it out. Nableezy already expressed reservations with this interaction ban before it was put in place. Tiamut also has. Other editors expressed concerns with it. I'll let editors see the various talk pages on their own. In my opinion, I am being restricted based on previous transgressions. The two admins rejecting this appeal were involved in the AE and have been dealing with the topic area so I assume they are fed up with it. You can correct me if I am wrong but it seems obvious. There is reasoning to be skeptical and I admit that but I am sick of this. I doubt it will matter much anyways. See you in three months for the request to lifted since my interactions will realistically be improved. It isn't my job to police the topic area since admins fail to and if I have to be extra careful in my interactions then so be it. That centralized discussion that I am harping about? I started it. It rubbed editors on the Israeli side the wrong way and got an edit very similar to what was being reverted over into the mainspace. You're welcome.Cptnono (talk) 06:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Timotheus Canens: Interesting thought but I am fine without any changes. My comment was not bad enough for an interaction ban and I really am not happy with any action even if it is less. Also, my comments were pretty light in the last AE until Cla68 brought me up. If editors are going to be part of the community they need to be scrutinized by the community. So an interaction ban is fine by me. It isn't like I could comment on Nableezy's talk page since he made it clear he would disregard it. I couldn't bring it here since it was bad but not bad enough to start the drama. So what is the difference now? I can't talk to him for awhile? Fine. I'll have to be extra careful which gets under my skin but I would prefer to just drop it before it turns into more drama.Cptnono (talk) 02:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Cla68:You didn't say anything until I changed your edit and notified you of your mistake so I have a hard time believing you were that offended. If you were there is no judgement from me about it. It would just be a coincidence that was hard to ignore. I get your point about scaring of people new to the topic, though. It isn't the first time I have heard people mention it. Yes, a more civil tone is needed. But this might be a better discussion for my talk page or the collaboration page.Cptnono (talk) 05:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Timotheus Canens and Gatoclass: So in the future, "see the centralized discussion for this" is better than telling someone they are causing problems. I still believe the request was needed and that there was a valid concern but agree the tone needed improving, though. Feel free to close this out. We are on the same page it looks like and can figure it out in three months.Cptnono (talk) 07:03, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@AGK and Gatoclass: You guys are still discussing this? (oops, this was removed right before this comment was made) It was close to being archived. I don't mind discussing my appeal more even though it is obvious that it isn't going anywhere. It really isn't even that much of a hindrance with Nableezy being blocked. I hope that my request for review will still receive the appropriate attention even though Nableezy's block is not set to expire until a month after I plan on making it. AGK doesn't look like he read it fully since he assumed he was involved and made the additional proposal. I do see where you are coming from anyways, AGK. But you have to understand that sometimes it seems (incorrectly most of he time) best to say something on the talk page. For example, asking Nableezy to see the centralized discussion was completely appropriate. I haven't seen anyone dispute that. I also have not seen anyone do anything but ignore that this interaction ban was a reaction to past transgressions. So I am fine with it knowing that overall I made the appropriate steps (getting the centralized discussion going and stuck to) but also realizing that telling someone they are being problematic can ruffle feathers. Tone makes a big difference so I can work on that. However, even though I can fix my interactions, I cannot takeaway what I did a year ago.Cptnono (talk) 08:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Timotheus Canens

I think it is ~~pointless~~ unnecessary for me to add to the voluminous discussion right above on this page. My rationale for the sanctions is explained in the above discussion and on Cptnono's talk page, and I incorporate it by reference here.

@LHvU: The intent is to make it indefinite for now, with review in a few months (three months sounds good), or sooner if the situation deteriorates, when it would likely be either lifted or changed into a topic ban. T. Canens (talk) 23:31, 29 November 2010 (UTC) Modified, T. Canens (talk) 23:48, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Gatoclass: It's not victimless. A hostile editing environment drives away new users, even if the old-timers got used to it. T. Canens (talk) 16:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have thought a bit more about this. The problem here is that discussions become unnecessarily personalized, in large part because people are throwing in conduct complaints in content discussions. This, in turn, creates a hostile editing environment and fosters further battleground behavior. I'm open to replacing this particular set of interaction bans with something similar to the restriction AGK imposed here, but I want to get some more comments first. T. Canens (talk) 23:34, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Cptnono

Statement by LessHeard vanU

At the very least could there be some clarification on the length of the topic ban, it apparently being indefinite presently? The strictures on being able to edit certain topic area's may be sufficient to promote among the parties a desire to interact more appropriately, and I would urge that some further consideration may be given to permitting an appeal to lift these sanctions after a defined period (6 months?) if Cptnono's appeal here is unsuccessful and the tariff is determined to be either indefinite or 1 year or more. (I realise this is not discussing the appeal directly, but I am too involved to be acting as an admin on this page but wanted to address some issues and make suggestions.) LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by George

I think that this was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Cptnono was blocked for three hours for incivility only five days ago, largely due to interactions with Nableezy. I've seen them express frustration in interacting with Nableezy since then, but haven't seen much in the way of incivility, and I'm not in favor of someone being punished twice for the same offense. The comment Cptnono made to Nableezy in this discussion was borderline uncivil at best, and comparable to the tone of interactions between Wehwalt and SandyGeorgia in this discussion (I'm not commenting on either of those editors, nor suggesting an interaction ban between them, just noting the similarity in the tone in a conversation involving an administrator.) Given Cptnono's expressed understanding of the issue with the tone of their recent commentary, including the comment that led to this ban, and their professed willingness to try to improve on it, this sanction strikes me as more punitive then preventative. Having worked with both editors, I believe they have the ability to contribute and discuss constructively, even with each other, and this interaction ban will create annoying hurdles for both editors that I don't view as necessary at this point. I would suggest either removing it entirely, or reducing it to something like one week, with a warning that future, problematic interactions between them will result in a longer interaction ban. ← George^talk 00:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Sean.hoyland

What happens if one editor accepts (=takes no action to appeal) an interaction ban and the other one doesn't by the way ? I have no idea whether that applies in this case but I'm just asking. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see the discussion on the admins page. Nevermind then. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Sean, having just one half of an interaction ban in force would be a recipe for disaster so, I guess that either both sanctions are in force or neither. PhilKnight (talk) 20:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Staement by BorisG

I think this sanction interprets NPA and civility policy way too broadly. I believe it is profoundly wrong because if we continue on this path we will have no way to have an argument between editors. Sharp debates are a useful and necessary part of collaboration. - BorisG (talk) 08:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PhilKnight

Obviously, I still support this restriction. From my perspective there's little difference between making it 3 months in duration, or reviewing after 3 months. In terms of why it's necessary, in addition to the comments by Cla68 in the original discussion, which relate to the thread linked by Cptnono, there ~~have been 2 reports~~ has been a report at WP:ANI in the last few weeks concerning Nableezy placing less than favorable quotes by Cptnono on his user page. In these circumstances, I think an interaction ban is worth trying. PhilKnight (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Gatoclass

I opposed the interaction bans when they were first proposed. Since then I have found WP:IBAN and it appears to me that such bans are not quite as onerous as I assumed, since the editors concerned can still edit the same pages but are prohibited from reverting each other's edits or commenting directly to or about one another. Also, PhilKnight has proposed a review after three months, a ban subject to periodic review would certainly be a lot less objectionable to me. However, before commenting further I would like to hear what Nableezy thinks. With an appeal of this nature, I think we should hear from both involved parties before making a decision. Gatoclass (talk) 06:26, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if Nableezy intends to comment here or not, but I think he made a good point on his talk page, which is, if two editors are not unduly offended by each other's comments, and are prepared to continue working together, why should admins step in to slap an interaction ban on them? It does seem like a victimless crime. So I think if Nableezy is prepared to continue working with Cptnono and vice versa, there's a good case for upholding this appeal. Gatoclass (talk) 14:18, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm sorry Cla, but I just don't buy the argument about hypothetical noobs being "intimidated" by a few sharp exchanges between others. In fact the opposite is typically the case - it's the noobs who need to learn to tone down their responses in accordance with policy. But if a user is so thin-skinned that they are going to allow themselves to be "intimidated" by a little friction between other editors, they are unlikely to last five minutes on Wikipedia in any case - let alone in a contentious topic area. Gatoclass (talk) 05:29, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to T. Canen's suggestion per AGK of instant blocks for comments on contributor rather than content, I am opposed to such blanket methods. While comments on contributor are usually unhelpful and should be avoided, sometimes it is necessary to call someone out for their behaviour, and sometimes that helps get discussion moving again. Personal attacks are more problematic, but not everyone agrees on what constitutes such an attack.

In any case, I don't think blocking is an effective counter for such conduct, and worse, it leaves a permanent blot on someone's record that can then be used as an excuse for an indef ban. The bottom line is that if one cracks down too hard on civility, one leaves the field to the civil POV pusher who is usually the one doing the most damage to content. Gatoclass (talk) 06:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you understand how this particular variety of sanction works. The point of the blanket approach is that, whilst we should always call somebody on inappropriate content, we should never call them on the article talk page. AGK 12:30, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, I don't follow at all. Would you mind elaborating? Gatoclass (talk) 13:40, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The idea is to separate discussions on content from discussions on conduct. Discussions on content, which we are primarily concerned with when we worry about the attractiveness of a topic area to new editors, belong on the article talk page. Discussions on conduct is good and all, but they belong at other venues - e.g., ANI, AE, RFC/U, whatever. You can comment on the contributor all you want - within reason, of course - but you can't do it on an article talk page. T. Canens (talk) 17:58, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, well I can't endorse that notion either. We shouldn't be encouraging editors to run to dispute resolution every time someone makes a comment about their conduct. That's just an invitation to gaming the system. Gatoclass (talk) 06:54, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User talk is fine too, if DR is unneeded; the point is that conduct matters should stay outside article talk as much as possible. T. Canens (talk) 08:12, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When we have accusations of bad faith flying around, we've no problem but to make users take their grievances through the correct channels. Responsible editors do that anyway, in virtually all cases. Why should those who edit in troubled topic areas be any different? I genuinely don't see what your objection to this is. We're basically enforcing a utopian editing environment; frankly, I think that's better than letting things turn to chaos (as they have in many articles), because even if the end result does fall short of perfect, at least it's a start.

Making comments about user conduct in the middle of a content discussion is never appropriate. This sanction simply makes that enforcable. Win-win. And, it's almost ungamable, because people learn the rules on this one super fast—and the result is a more harmonious editing environment, and one in which the actual content can be discussed without lots of background noise and shouting. AGK 21:39, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well said. Cla68 (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by AGK

As the administrator who initially remedied the interaction ban in question, I oppose the appeal. I am not convinced that Cptnono can interact constructively with Nableezy. I would be inclined instead to put everybody on a level footing, and levy an interaction ban with Nableezy. They shouldn't be bringing user conduct into article content discussions in the first place. AGK 21:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also wonder why I was not notified about the existence of this appeal. Have we forgotten process and courtesy, amongst all the drama that this board today faces? AGK 21:52, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fairly sure I imposed this interaction ban...See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive74#Result concerning Shuki. T. Canens (talk) 01:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Cla68

Gatoclass, it doesn't matter if Nableezy and Cptnono aren't offended by each others' comments. That article talk page is publicly viewable. The over-the-top hostile tone of their interaction with each other could very well intimidate other editors, especially new editors, from wanting to get involved in the content discussion. That kind of discourse on an article talk page is unacceptable, and both of them should know better. Cla68 (talk) 22:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result of the appeal by Cptnono

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Proposed, per T. Canens: that, in response to the primary concerns and to action this request, Nableezy be sanctioned like this. Secondary concerns remaining include: whether Cptnono and/or Nableezy should be topic banned in addition, or whether the proposed sanction, coupled with Cptnono's ban on interaction with Nableezy, will remedy the problems that exist with their conduct; and whether additional sanctions of other users are required. AGK 21:43, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What? This is an appeal, not a new case. The options are to either uphold the appeal or reject it. It's not an opportunity for you to pile on yet more sanctions to a user who has already been topic banned. Gatoclass (talk) 10:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Littleolive oil and Edith Sirius Lee 2

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Littleolive oil and Edith Sirius Lee 2

User requesting enforcement: Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Littleolive oil (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log); Edith Sirius Lee 2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: [7] "that editor repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes of Wikipedia in connection with these articles."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: In this dif from Olive [8] she refers to directs quotes from JAMA as "your personal biases". This is against WP:CIVIL, WP:DUE and the current ArbCom remedies. She has current restrictions in place here [9].

In these difs from Edith [10] and [11] my views are referred to as "paranoid" A warning was given here [12] for this previous edit [13] where she states "Doc James destroyed years of work". This user has subsequently changed user names to User:Edith Sirius Lee 2

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Topic area ban for Edith, Warning for Olive

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: This users have an admitted WP:COI in that she admits to practicing TM. They edit this subject area primarily or exclusively.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: Olive here; Edith [14]

Discussion concerning Littleolive oil

Statement by Littleolive oil

Mainspace edits per "They edit this subject area primarily or exclusively." [15]

Clarifications and context per the TM arbitration:[16]

All editors on the list created by EdJohnston, as well as Jmh649 (Doc James) and Will Beback were parties in the TM arbitration.
All editors were included in the decisions and remedies
After months of deliberation and multiple pages of evidence, no single editor, with one exception, and no so-called group was found to be any more or less at blame than any other.
No COI was found/named in the arbitration
The TM arbitration did not in any way identify editors as belonging to "groups", but treated editors as individuals.
The TM arbitration discretionary sanction statement cited by Doc James, says a warning is required (bold). The full statement says:

Any uninvolved administrator may, in his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor editing Transcendental meditation or other articles concerning Transcendental meditation and related biographies of living people, broadly defined, if, after a warning, that editor repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes of Wikipedia in connection with these articles.

- Per the TM arbitration I was not warned, nor does one strongly worded statement constitute," repeatedly or seriously violates the behavioural standards or editorial processes."

Statement:

My comment in the TM talk page was not a response to the JAMA article. It was a response to Doc James' history of personalizing comments, lack of assuming good faith, and hisj insistence on editing on a body of research from a singular point of view. Its clear from this thread,[17]that I wasn’t sure what James was referring to. My intent was not to offend another editor but to express serious concern to an editor who has a history of unilateral editing, (even in the face of an RfC, where he split content off the main article including the TM research, on the second day of an RfC, while another solution had been suggested by an uninvolved editor, in the face of editor disagreement, effectively preempting the RfC) [18][19] [20]. However, the comment was strongly worded, and since it offended I sincerely apologize and will strike the statement.

On three previous occasions I have asked James to assume good faith:

Cmt:[21]Warning:[22]

Cmt:[23]Warning:[24]

Cmt:[25]Warning:[26]

Concerns I have with Doc James' editing behaviour

Personalizing comments on the TM article talk page:

"Well it seems that TM publishes a huge amount which they like to brag about little of the work has any real scientific substance to it."

[27]

"We do know that peoples who lively-hood and identity depend on TM disagree with a major report that found it either ineffective… "

[28]

"You will need to convince Wikipedia editors who are not practitioners of TM the validity of your argument…."

[29]

"Yes the three of you agree but you also all practice TM. Now please get some outside input."

[30]

"You and a number of editors who practice TM keep changing it. There have been no attempts by those who practice TM to get outside supporting opinions. It seems that only those who practice TM agree with the wording presented."

[31]

"Some have a desire to present the topic in a non NPOV manner with TM meaning only the technique in line with statements of official TM material.."

[32]

Many more diffs if wanted or needed

Not assuming good faith:

"I have the impression of efforts to suppress information regarding the TM movement with a desire to give greater emphasis to the technique."

[33]

"I personally see KB list as just a specific selection of sites to support his POV."

[34]

Misrepresentation/POV of research/Deletion sourced content on research:

(Violations of TM arbitration) [35]

Deletes material from a 2007 book published by McGrawHill Medical. The material was sourced to a chapter authored by three scientists from the National Institutes of Health and an assistant professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University Medical Center.[36]

Removes material sourced to a 2008 research review in BMC Psychiatry and a 2006 research review in the journal Ethnicity and Disease.[37]

At the same time, he discredits research on TM (and violates WP:MEDRS) by quoting a 1985 book on religion that claims "that the original findings had been false or exaggerated."[38]

Comment:

This is the second time James has brought me to AE on charges that are misrepresentations. I was taken to AE, restricted by Future Perfect At Sunrise and the case was closed before I could make a comment. I was restricted based on making two reverts is two months. Neither of these requests is right or fair, nor serves the time of editors who come to these AE/N in any capacity.

I want to make a point very clear per the comment by Edith Sirius Lee. I find these attack situations ugly and distasteful. I commented on James because I had to, not because I wanted to, in efforts to explain why the statement he brought to this page was not an assumption of bad faith but a recognition of a position that is not enabling collaborative discussion, and that follows three previous requests to move on to discussion that focuses on the edits not the editors. My preference is to try to work contention out on a talk page.

Both Will and James know that the Arbitration stipulated an editor must be given a warning prior to asking for enforcement. Yet neither extended a warning for what they considered to be a problematic comment, and both suggested sanctions based on one comment. While I stand by my comment, I don't ever wish to offend anyone, and I would have quickly removed or struck the comment had I seen that It was offensive rather than what I intended it to be, a strongly worded request for an editor to look at his many-times, stated position and to try to delineate his personal opinions from his editing.

The past AE sanction was false and unfair, and is being used here too, as it has in other places to suggest,"this is a problematic editor so lets just cut to the chase and hang her."

Like all editors I'm sure I've made mistakes in my editing, but creating one false sanction on top of another is creating a lie about me and what I do. I assume this is not what James or Will meant to do, but this is, with out a doubt, what is happening. (I'll add diffs)

As an editor, I am doing everything I can to support a collegial, collaborative editing environment, and to move away from convoluted discussion, that includes actively helping to draft a recent RfC suggestion section, asking a neutral outside admin. to come in to gauge consensus when there was disagreement, applying for two mediations, and starting the preliminaries for a third.

Comment by Will Beback

One of the principles from the arbitration concerned assuming good faith:

Decorum and assumptions of good faith
Wikipedia users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited. Making unsupported accusations of such misconduct by other editors, particularly where this is done in repeatedly or in a bad-faith attempt to gain an advantage in a content dispute, is also unacceptable.

The remedies instruct uninvolved admins to the enforce the listed principles:

Guidance for uninvolved administrators
Uninvolved administrators are invited to monitor the articles in the area of conflict to enforce compliance by editors with, in particular, the principles outlined in this case. Enforcing administrators are instructed to focus on fresh and clear-cut matters arising after the closure of this case rather than on revisiting historical allegations.

If uninvolved admins think this is a clear-cut case of assuming bad faith then it would be appropriate to enforce compliance using the discretionary sanctions. Will Beback talk 09:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Moved from admins section): I was caught by surprise by this filing, but I believe there is relevant evidence to present here. I think the best thing would be to put this case on hold for a few days to collect and present that material before making a determination. Or, to withdraw it and re-post it shortly. Will Beback talk 14:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Edith Sirius Lee

Is this officially an AE about Fladrif, TimidGuy and me as well? Since the issue is the lack of progression at the content level, should not admins consider the attitude of all involved editors toward consensus at the content level. @Tijfo098, the adjective "paranoid" was qualifying content (in sources), not editors. Also, the "independently done" is about content. TimidGuy also shared the same opinion about the "independently done". It is just a content dispute. [39] Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 14:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Technical request to move a misplaced comment
I respectfully request that Will Beback respects the following guideline in the section below: "This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above." I will remove this comment after that. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 14:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Littleolive oil

Gadzooks, someone please give that poor talkpage a break from the endless hair-splittingly circular arguments and misrepresentation of sources by the proponents (mostly). TM is a form of alternative medicine, so I consider myself WP:INVOLVED despite not having edited there. - 2/0 (cont.) 16:46, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to see more than that one dif. One dif does not a pattern make. KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 18:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Tijfo098

Selective quotation from Talk:Transcendental Meditation#An medical article looking at cost and adverse effects:

Olive: "You clearly are attempting to present the pejorative view." DocJames: "Some people who practice TM says it allows them to fly and have eternal health." Olive: "You are conflating your personal bias with use of sources."

While observing the proportions, this situation appears not dissimilar from that of User:Destinero, who while right about the core science issue related to LGBT parenting, nevertheless chooses the most strident language to proclaim it, and actually manages to support his choice of words with citations (usually page xx out of a long amicus brief of affidavit by a major researcher or science organization), and hardly ever agrees to a compromise on the language regardless of what language other major science orgs use. Ironically, Destinero is the one usually dragged to admin boards for this; ANI, because there was no arbitration case on that topic.

To conclude, there may be POV pushing at work here, but it doesn't seem to me from that discussion that it's only from one side. Tijfo098 (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: I read some of the context for that thread above where Doc cites Rodney Stark (whose views on the world are highly correlated with his current employer) to say that "Yes I have found a few sources that share my main stream scientific point of view regarding TM and could find many more... " That was funny not in the least because the words "fiercely polemical" are in the first sentence of a NYT book review of one of Stark's books: [40]. Tijfo098 (talk) 19:57, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regading EdJohnston's 4-way ban proposal

After reading the unarchived talk page there, I think User:Edith Sirius Lee can be justifiably topic banned for repeatedly breaching decorum esp. calling [hyper]skeptic views of TM "paranoid", and for general absurd [wiki]lawyering e.g. regarding the word "independently", but I don't see evidence for banning the others listed by EdJohnson. I'm particularly bewildered by the suggestion to ban User:Fladrif as TM proponent; see Talk:Transcendental Meditation#Changes lead. Perhaps the algorithm invoked is red link user name => ban? Tijfo098 (talk) 06:56, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know its way off topic, but just to put in a good word for User:Fladrif,he stepped in first to rescue the Michael Welner BLP; he spent a lot of time with the sources too. Mr.Grantevans2 (talk) 02:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Fladrif

I am, like Will, rather taken by surprise by this filing, at least as to LittleOliveOil. I don't really see anything in the diffs cited by DocJames that would have justified a topic ban of olive as originally proposed. I see that he has amended his request for her to be for a formal warning only. I'm not convinced that even that is warranted at this time, at least not based on what has been presented so far. Fladrif (talk) 15:42, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Littleolive oil

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Littleolive oil was one of the parties in the June, 2010 Arbcom decision known as WP:ARBTM and I understand that she has a TM affiliation. Over 90% of her edits since 2006 appear to be on the subject of TM. Opinions may differ as to the exact reason for the discussion at Talk:Transcendental Meditation going in circles for so long, but people with a TM affiliation have been working on these articles for years. (The talk page has 37 archives of up to 200Kb each). If the TM people were ever going to create a modus vivendi with the regular editors, it ought to be visible by now. I think that a set of bans from talk pages may be necessary if we ever want these articles to converge. Though COI-affected people can work well with others on some articles, it doesn't seem to be working out here. ~~The least arbitrary way of selecting people for a talk page ban would be to pick those admonished in the Arbcom case or those sanctioned at AE since then. That list would be:~~

User:Fladrif

User:TimidGuy

User:Littleolive oil

User:Edith Sirius Lee

I recommend that we impose a ban of these editors from the topic of Transcendental Meditation for six months, on all pages of Wikipedia including article and user talk, except for legitimate and necessary dispute resolution concerning their own edits. The ban would be evaluated after six months to see if their absence improved the editing climate or the quality of the articles. EdJohnston (talk) 05:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bit draconian, that. Your logic, if I understand it correctly, is "lets just ban everyone who has gotten in trouble before" - hardly justice for those who are trying to mend their ways and have done nothing wrong since their last transgression was sanctioned. Am I missing something? KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 12:33, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with that and, I might add, the same flawed logic appears to be at work in a number of other recent cases.

If people want somebody to be topic banned, I want to see a pattern of recent misconduct, not just one diff. I can't see why this case would merit any more than a warning. Gatoclass (talk) 13:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should give Littleolive oil some more time to respond. Otherwise, I agree with KillerChihuahua about the bans proposed by EdJohnston. PhilKnight (talk) 15:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Will Beback has also asked for some more time to prepare his case. I have moved his comment to his own section above. Gatoclass (talk) 16:52, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As currently presented, I agree that EdJohnston's proposed bans sweep way too broadly. T. Canens (talk) 11:26, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer that the much broader concerns be dealt with in a separate AE.--Mkativerata (talk) 19:26, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After a discussion with two editors on my talk page, and noting the above dissents, I am withdrawing my proposal (above) for the topic bans of four editors. I agree with Mkativerata that the broader concerns could be addressed in a separate AE. The amount of data that was submitted for the present AE would not justify a wide-ranging response. This enforcement request is still asking for sanctions on Littleolive and Edith, and the admins should try to reach a decision there. EdJohnston (talk) 16:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Edith Sirius Lee

Statement by Edith Sirius Lee

In all the diffs presented, I am only referring to content (in sources) or to edits that editors have done, including edits that undid a structure that took a long time to establish. There is no direct attack on an editor. I do not usually directly attack the POV of editors. I did it in some other diffs, but I apologized after. I do not know Doc James, but I am pretty sure he is a nice person. We just disagree on content. If I do my own self critic, I would say that I can be too direct when I contradict other editors in a content dispute using logics, which could even be wrong some times. It is often not well taken. I believe though that I am improving. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 18:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I should add that I am told that my English grammar is not always easy to read. This cannot help. I will try to improve that also. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here is my reply to Fladrif's diffs. I agree that my communication skill in the diffs of Aug 10, Aug 13 and Nov 10 was inappropriate. In all cases, I was too argumentative, too direct and perhaps my grammar did not help. I could find more diffs of this kind against me. I think that I am improving. I already plaid guilty for that above, but they were not personal attacks. I certainly did not say I prefer "throwing careless insults around" over civility. It is JamesBWatson that is quoted here, not me - this is taken out of context.

As far as the Aug 17 diffs are concerned, the issue is that a discussion was misplaced: all editors, not only me, were warned to continue in the talk page of the RFA, not in the RFA itself, because it was disruptive. I already discussed the Oct 26 diff above. It was a comment that I made about James's edits, which "destroyed" a structure that took a long time to establish. It was not about James directly. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 22:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About SPA

On the positive side, I always been careful to respect [41]. I am following NPOV policy and other content policy to the best of my understanding and I accept to compromise to achieve consensus. Olive made a strong point in her defense that she is not a SPA, which is true, but being a SPA is not against guideline or policy. An admin below went way off topic just to bring out that Fladrif was not a SPA and had an important contribution in another topic. If being an SPA is an issue, I plaid guilty. However, I carefully respected Arbcom remedy on that respect [42]. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 16:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About Doc James being sanctioned himself per policy: not a priority

Doc James extended the AE to me, but he is also by default included by policy : Anyone requesting enforcement who comes with unclean hands runs the risk of their request being summarily denied or being sanctioned themselves. Olive made a strong case against him to explain why she had to make a strong comment to him in the talk page and I (and she) can add more to it. Edith Sirius Lee (talk) 17:59, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Per Olive, what we really want is to resolve content issues in the talk page in a nice manner. So, I hided this paragraph.

Statements by others concerning EdithSiriusLee

Statement by Fladrif

In stark contrast to my surprise at a new AE being filed at this time as to LOO, I am not surprised at all that a new AE is necessary and appropriate as to ESL in all of his/her incarnations. ESL is a consistently disruptive SPA whose only role has been to inundate the talk pages with a relentless deluge of tendacity, obstinance and personal attacks, posing an insurmountable obstacle to the reaching of consensus and cooperation. Repeated warnings from involved and uninvolved editors and administrators, and even the imposition of sanctions at an earlier AE have done nothing to convince ESL to conform his/her editing to the requirements of Wikipedia policy and guidelines and the requirements of the TM ArbCom. I can think of nothing, short of a complete topic ban, that can address this persistent and apparently deliberate behavior. I was sorely tempted to start an AE with respect to ESL the most recent time I warned him/her (Nov 22)[43], but I frankly didn't feel like undertaking the work of starting one. Rather than present an endless list of diffs, I'll just link to a representative sampling of comments by uninvolved editors commenting in various discussions since ESL was sanctioned the first time at AE. I'm not even going to get into the times that I or other involved editors have warned ESL, or to diffs that preceded the last AE, because that list would be nearly endless.

Aug 10 - one day after AE sanctions are imposed on ESL, User:Yobol warns ESL that ESL's editing is "disruptive" and ESL's "behavior is toxic" and a reason that user has not contributed more to the page.[44]
Aug 13 - User:JamesBWatson warns ESL of an "adversarial approach" that is not helpful to Wikipedia, and notes that ESL prefers "throwing careless insults around" over civility. [45]
Aug 17 - User:SandyGeorgia and User:Literaturegeek each warn ESL for disrupting DocJames' RFA [46][47]
Oct 26 - User:Cirt warns ESL regarding personal attacks on other editors.[48]
Nov 10 - User:Rumiton warns ESL of "repeated tendentious verbosity" and "triumphal incomprehensibility", observing that it is impossible to know if the problem is a lack of command of English or deliberate disruption, but that "the editing process cannot survive it, and editors who care about this subject need to take a stand. I'm outta here".[49]

When uninvolved editors look at these pages, they inevitably soon conclude that participation is fruitless, principally because of Edith. There is no way around that conclusion, and there is pretty much only one solution to the problem. This has gone on long enough. Too long. Fladrif (talk) 19:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Edith Sirius Lee

Marokwitz

All parties to be given the benefit of the doubt, little to be gained from sanctions at this point.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Marokwitz

User requesting enforcement

SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Marokwitz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction violated

Violation of 1RR (two reverts within 10 hours; different material involved); Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles

Diffs that violate it

Version reverted to: 11:27 Nov 25, added to the lead "known by it's [sic] Hebrew name, Lod"

1st revert: 05:14 Dec 5, added to the lead "known by they [sic] Hebrew names Lod and Ramla".

Version reverted to: 05:37 Nov 27, added "In 2005, Israeli Historians Alon Kadish and Avraham Sela criticized the 'Arab and Israeli revisionist historiography' of the Lydda events, and argued that the expulsion was not premeditated, and that the decision for expulsion was made during heavy fighting and unexpected military circumstances. The further wrote that there is no first-hand evidence that a massacre took place, and said there is 'severe doubt' over whether a massacre actually took place in the al-'Umari Mosque."

2nd revert: 15:04 Dec 5, added "Kadish and Sela criticized the 'Arab and Israeli revisionist historiography' of the Lydda events, and argued that there is no first-hand evidence that a massacre took place, and said there is 'severe doubt' over whether a massacre actually took place in the mosque.

Diffs of prior warnings

That 1RR applies to the page is posted on talk. I also offered him the chance to self-revert. [50]

Enforcement action requested

Request a block for violation of 1RR

Additional comments

Marowitz's edits were not back to back. He made the first revert, restoring the Hebrew name issue. [51]. I removed it. [52] Then he made the second revert, restoring the "severe doubt" that a massacre took place (the massace issue is already referred to elsewhere in the article; Marowitz may be editing the page without reading it).

The article is currently being prepared for FAC. There's an open peer review request, and editors are giving feedback at User talk:SlimVirgin/Lydda3—editors are commenting there because it's difficult to trust the mainspace version—and Marokwitz's manner of editing is not helping this process. Because his edits didn't stand, he has now added a POV tag, also not helpful. [53]

Discussion concerning Marokwitz

Statement by Marokwitz

First of all, I would like to thank SlimVirgin for making fun of my slight dyslexia, by choosing to present edits containing typing errors instead of the later versions in which I corrected them. Nice of you, SlimVirgin. You should be proud of yourself. I plead guilty to the typos. As for the rest, I am innocent, as I intend to demonstrate soon. Marokwitz (talk) 18:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know whether you went back and fixed "they." You didn't fix "it's." I had to do it. [54] This is the absurdity. You know I'm trying to get the page to FAC. But you add poor writing (and you say you know it might be problematic), and POV, and poor sources, and repetition, giving the impression that you're editing the article without having read it. I'm having to fix the writing of edits I disagree with, edits based on poor sources, because I can't revert, but I can't leave the writing as it is. That's why I'm having to keep an acceptable version of the page in my userspace, and uninvolved editors are having to review it on a user talk page. Not a good situation. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 19:36, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please calm down a bit, SV. The world does not have to come to a stand because you want to take an article to FAC. Indeed, to that end, the best approach would be to edit in a collaberative manner with all editors, instead of running to some noticeboard on some technicality, especially when your version is not consistent with the consensus at the talk page. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 19:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What ought to happen when an article is going to FAC is that people allow it to be written, and reviewed by uninvolved editors. It can't get FA status with partisan editors adding POV and poor writing, and bible.org as a source. So if that kind of editing must be accepted at I/P articles, which is what you're arguing, you're effectively saying that those articles should never be allowed to get FA status. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 22:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would advise you not to accuse editors of being "partisans", writing such things could get even the slim goddess of Wikipedia banned. You have no idea who I am or what my opinions are. Watch it.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with "adding POV", the whole idea of Wikipedia is to faithfully represent all commonly held POVs according to their prominence in reliable sources, and that includes some POVs not necessarily held by SlimVirgin. What you are doing ("removing POV") is actually much worse.
"bible.org" is a perfectly reliable source when we are using it for citing the texts of one of the well known books and dictionaries contained on that site (for example, Hitchcock, Nave's, EBD, Smith's, ISBE, Strong's Greek & Hebrew Lexicon).
If you think you are the only editor on Wikipedia capable of unbiased research, then god help us. Marokwitz (talk) 22:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Motion to dismiss by Marokwitz

Did I actually revert? Let's see. A few days ago I added reliably sourced material to the section "Lydda's defenses": [55]:

In 2005, Israeli Historians Alon Kadish and Avraham Sela criticized the "Arab and Israeli revisionist historiography" of the Lydda events, and argued that the expulsion was not premeditated, and that the decision for expulsion was made during heavy fighting and unexpected military circumstances. The further wrote that there is no first-hand evidence that a massacre took place, and said there is "severe doubt" over whether a massacre actually took place in the al-'Umari Mosque.

Less than 10 minutes later, SlimVirgin rephrased my words and placed them in a footnote, without discussion and with the following very cryptic edit summary : "((ec) + details)" [56]

They argue that the deaths in Lydda occurred because a military battle for the town took place, not because of a massacre.

Several days later, surprised to see that SlimVirgin decided the views of Kadish and Sela are only worth mentioning in a footnote, let alone without any explanation or discussion, I decided to add another, much shorter version of my text, this time to a different section where I felt balance was still needed, (The section "Israeli response to the shooting"), while keeping SlimVirgin's edit intact. I added the following:

Kadish and Sela criticized the "Arab and Israeli revisionist historiography" of the Lydda events, and argued that there is no first-hand evidence that a massacre took place, and said there is "severe doubt" over whether a massacre actually took place in the mosque.

From Wikipedia:Edit warring:

"A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material."

In other words, a "revert" would be me taking SlimVirgin's work and reversing it fully or partially.

However, I did not reverse any of SlimVirgin's edits, in whole or in part. I did not blatantly go and redo my edit. What I did is, added a new and different version of my text, to a wholly different area of the article, several days after the original edit, hoping that my new version would be good enough to reach consensus, and at the same time I did not modify or remove any of the work of SlimVirgin.

To summarize:

In the above-mentioned edit, I did not reverse actions of other editors in whole or in part.
I may have made a similar edit twice in two sections of the article, yet I don't recall any discretionary sanctions against being repetitive. I have every right to do so, as long as I'm not reversing other editors work.

My work is simply a standard case of collaborative editing, in which one editor gradually edits the words of another editor, in a non destructive fashion. SV's "extremist" interpretation of the policy, if accepted, would completely destroy the collaborative spirit of Wikipedia and simply scare editors away.

If some editor copyedits some text that I wrote and moves it to a footnote, according to the sanctions I'm not allowed to undo their edit (more than once per day). However, no policy states that I am forbidden from adding any remotely similar material sourced to Kadish and Sela somewhere else in the article.

Similarly, in the second case I am accused of "reverting", regarding the Hebrew name of Lydda - this was not a revert either, rather I modified the article based on new reliable sources that I found and added in that edit ( A cyclopædia of Biblical literature: Volume 2, by John Kitto, William Lindsay Alexander. p. 842, and Lod (Lydda), Israel: from its origins through the Byzantine period, 5600 B.C.E.-640 C.E., by Joshua J. Schwartz, 1991, p. 15), and following discussion on the talk page in which several editors participated and agreed with my edit, while SlimVirgin, the only editor to oppose my edit, eventually failed to respond. It's not a revert, it's something which SlimVirgin doesn't seem to care much about called "consensus".

I rest my case.

It should be noted that the present situation is that both my edits are now OUT of the article, despite quite a clear consensus in favor for their inclusion. I'm really quite a terrible "edit warrior", ain't I?

On a personal note, many editors are feeling that SlimVirgin is acting as if she owns the article, doing hundreds of edits and immediately reverting or changing every contribution by other editors. She is driving other editors away by her behavior. Just look at her edit history, and read the talk page of "her" personal essay, 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle. Just a short quote from SlimVirgin, addressing me :

"I'm likely to remove the material you added today... We can't keep adding more details from particular perspectives, especially not in any of the background sections. ... You're welcome to oppose, but I need to shorten this, not lengthen it."

She has recently harassed me on my talk page on another completely false allegation, just for daring to confront her tyrannical editing style.

This is not the collaborative spirit of Wikipedia.
This is not the conduct expected from an experienced administrator.

While it is not my style to engage in Wikilawyering and enforcement requests, I do believe that the result of this case should be a warning to SlimVirgin. She cannot try to scare and intimidate other editors way from "her" article; that is unacceptable.

I am completely certain of my innocence. It was not my intention to edit war, and my actions can hardly be considered edit warring by any definition. I value my integrity and reputation above all. As an active editor in often highly controversial areas, with over 10,000 edits in over four years, not once was I involved in any such arbitration case. It is extremely important for me to keep this clean record. I motion for this arbitration case to be dismissed. In case I am found guilty for edit warring and warned or banned - I hereby declare my intent to self-ban myself for an additional period of 7 days. 20:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

You self-reverted, so it's over. If you'd done it when first requested, the report would have been unnecessary. What you did was revert to a previous version of yours that you knew had been removed recently (one revert), then when I removed it, you reverted to another previous version of yours, which you also knew had been removed recently. That was the second revert. With both those edits, you knowingly reversed the recent removal of that material. You're only allowed to do that once in 24 hours on I/P articles. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 22:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not over. I want a ruling to show that I'm being falsely accused. I will not accept my reputation being ruined for engaging in completely good faith and positive editing. Marokwitz (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Brewcrewer

This appears to be much ado about nothing except drama mongering. I don't know the intricities of 1rr so I will avoid commenting on the specific, but I told both Slim Virgin and Marokwitz that I along with other editors on the article talk page agreed with Marokwitz's edit[57] and had he self reverted I would have reverted his self-revert. I guess that takes on new absurdity levels, but its just another day in the I-A conflict.--brew crewer (yada, yada) 17:36, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by BorisG

This looks like a minor technical infringement made in good faith. SV is trying to own the article. I can understand this, given their massive contribution to this article and the FAC nomination, but refusing to engage in consensus building and accusing all other editors (who are trying to make the article more balanced) of being partisans etc is not helpful. I urge all editors here to work towards consensus. - BorisG (talk) 01:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I object to this, Boris. It isn't possible to collaborate on a featured article with editors who haven't read the article, haven't read the sources, want to use sources like bible.org, and care only about pushing a POV. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:48, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Tijfo098

I'm not incredibly familiar with ME historians, so I can't say if Avraham Sela's view is worth including or not (it was added back by User:Mbz1 now). The lack of substantive discussion on this on the talk page looks rather bad for both sides. However, in the issue of "al-Ludd became known as Lod in 1948", the consensus was rather against SlimVirgin's formulation, and it wasn't just a pile-on of the usual suspects. Tijfo098 (talk) 14:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That wasn't the issue. That was already in the article. SlimVirgin ^{talk|contribs} 17:48, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that the thread is quite germane because Marokwitz wrote "became" is inaccurate, as discussed in the talk , these are the Hebrew names of these localities which were used before the exodus in the 1st diff that you reported here. Tijfo098 (talk) 20:13, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Marokwitz

I've left him a note giving him the opportunity to self-revert his most recent edit. It seems to be a 1RR violation, but it could easily have been made in good faith, so I'm willing to make any action proportional to his response. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:47, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Piotrus

User requesting enforcement: Offliner (talk) 07:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Piotrus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:EEML#Modified_by_motion_3

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[58]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

[59] Warning by Coren (talk · contribs) "I also agree in principle with a narrowing of the topic ban, but that would be accompanied with a stern warning that trying to toe the line and argue about where it lies is the swiftest way to have it return"
[60] Warning by SirFozzie (talk · contribs) "as for the narrowing, I agree with Brad, and will at least be willing to narrow the topic ban, with the caveat that it's going to be very quickly reapplied if there are future issues"

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Block and reinstatement of full EE topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: Offliner (talk) 07:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [61]

Discussion concerning Piotrus

Statement by Piotrus

I do not believe that my edit violates the topic ban "from articles about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe". The Peace of Riga article is about a peace treaty, not about some "national, cultural, or ethnic dispute". It is my understanding that wars (and subsequently, peace treaties) do not fall under the revised topic ban, based on 1) the fact that an editor has already complained that I edited another war article (Great Northern War) during my request for amendment and that complain was ignored by the Committee (as presumably not even violating the generic EE area topic ban) and 2) I raised the question whether I can edit war-related articles, and I asked Coren in particular if I can edit list of Nazi-era ghettos (an article related to both the Holocaust and WWII - two major disputes) and he said yes (both cases are discussed by me and Coren here).

Further, I will add that in the diff cited, I reverted an IP editor, who in turn reverted me less than an hour afterwords. Please note that I made only a single edit to that article and after I was reverted by the IP editor again I have chosen not to continue to be engaged in this incident anymore (I am voluntarily sticking to my self-imposed 1RR in the EE area). Nobody raised complains w/ regards to my short-lived edit (the article is stable and has been throughout its history, not being a subject to any serious dispute among editors); nobody raised complains (barring this one) with regards to any of my edits that I've carried out in the past few weeks since the amendment. I think that my edit in question has been done in good faith, with a civil edit summary, and my further exchange with the (presumably now-registered) IP editor was civil and constructive (here, here). The IP editor also started a discussion on talk, per my suggestion. As such, I believe that my edit had a positive influence on Wikipedia (please note the important difference between the spirit of the law and the letter...).

All that said, I will appreciate advice from uninvolved editors on how close do they think this edit was to the topic ban (and why). To quote Coren: "how likely is it that someone not involved in the past disputes would see this as a violation"? Please let me know. To further show my good faith (and to follow Coren's advice to "withdraw at the first sign of trouble"), while this discussion is ongoing here, I am going to avoid doing any edits similar to the one under discussion. As I told Coren in the linked discussion, I am actively trying to avoid approaching the ban line, but the wording of the ban makes it difficult (it is quite easy to argue that almost any article is related to some dispute, hence it is quite easy for an editor who wants to see the editor under such a topic ban punished or at least criticized to find a diff that he can put up for a review...). While I still do not believe (per arguments cited above) that my edit violated the ban, if there is consensus among neutral editors that I did, I hope that a warning will be enough, in light of the facts that I was under the impression that war-related articles are ok for me to edit, that the edit was done in good faith, that I chose not to engage in further editing of the article after having been reverted and that I chose to pay extra attention to my subsequent edits after this one has been brought to my attention. To editors favoring blocks as punishment, I'd suggest this short reading (or just look at the second line in the Wikipedia:Blocking policy).

Lastly, I find Offliner wikistalking of my edits (he has not been involved in editing the Peace of Riga article) and his decision to take a single edit (an edit that as I outlined above was good faithed, civil and constructive) in an unclear topic ban here instead of discussing it with me worrisome and not conductive to creating good editing atmosphere. Considering his attitude towards me and other EEML editors, and his insistence of bringing the smallest potential infractions here and asking for the largest possible punishments, I'd like to note that his attitude is actively damaging to the attempts by others to deradicalize and rebuild normal editing relations and friendly atmosphere (this was already noted by arbitrators during my request for amendment, see [62] for example). There is also the matter of his 1-year block and his unblocking: while I would never ask for his unblock to be reviewed, I do believe that unblocked editors should focus on building the encyclopedia - not on hounding their former wiki-enemies. I'd be happy to collaborate with Offliner on creating encyclopedic content; instead I find that I have to waste my time defending myself and discussing wikipolitics here. What if anything can be done with regards to his battleground attitude towards other editors and use of AE for this purpose, I'll leave to the neutral editors reviewing this case (I also understand that this request may not be the best place to review his attitude, but if this is the case, I'd appreciate advice on where such a review can be made; I'll also note that in the past editors making bad-faithed, frivolous AE requests have been discussed and remedies on them - such as interactions ban and bans from making AE rwequests - issued after they've made such requests in the very AE threads they started). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:22, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to Novickas: the instances you cite concern cases where, after making an edit, I decided that the edit was not justified and I self reverted. It could be because I thought the edit was perhaps too close to the blurry topic ban line, or because I thought that the item should be discussed at talk first, or simply because I realized that the original poster was right and I was wrong (or a combination of those factors). I am not sure what you mean by "troublesome articles", as they are not subject to any troubles, nor have been in the past (one of them is a brand new article, edited only by few editors, for example, with no sign of any "trouble"). With regards to the other editor being an IP, I was just stating a fact. With regard to my usage of the term wikistalking, I prefer it over hounding, and as long as the redirect remains in place I see no reason not to use the term (although this is perhaps not the best place to discuss the terminology; in any case I have refactored my statement to make clear I refer to wikistalking). In either case, the link does point to a correct policy: "following [an]other user[s] around [...] accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behavior [and] disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or to the project generally." (And if it is not clear: being dragged back into the atmosphere of "EE battleground" here and a reminder that some users seem incapable of forgiving & forgetting is not contributing to my "enjoyment of editing"). Yes, N., you are right that tracking policy violations is fine - but don't forget the context: "in good faith and attempt[ing] to resolve a dispute instead of escalating one" - qualities that this AE request is lacking (to say the least, IMHO). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 03:21, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Novickas

I don't know why Piotr has been doing this, but he has made several ventures into troublesome articles over the past week or so -making edits and then taking them back. Could you, P, explain why you've been doing this? The one that Offliner cites above might need some context.- P's edit summary was: "Beraza was not a concentration camp. How is this relevant to the article? Please explain on talk. Thanks." It refers to the 1930s Bereza Kartuska prison, often called a concentration camp, for political/other prisoners in Poland. Piotr was well aware that it was an area of EE dispute, having made a number of contributions to the article and to its talk [63]. You could reasonably say it remains under dispute, since it still has POV tags. The following P. edits probably don't need context, but if they do, please ask. Dec. 6 at Poland Anti-Religious Campaign (1945–1990) - [64], edit summary "(self-rv, will report for discussion at WT:POLAND instead)". Invasion of Poland from Nov. 29 [65] (ES:"(self-rv, the previous editor is correct (per photo description)" Nov. 27 at Poland–Russia relations [66] (ES: "self-rv, will raise the issue on talk first)".

WRT to the justification above that an edit he reverted was made by an IP - he apparently doesn't subscribe to this philosophy. I do and I think I'm not alone. The IP editor added a ref.

I also ask Piotr to stop using the term stalking. WP:Wikistalking now redirects to Wikipedia:Harassment. Per Wikipedia:HA#What_harassment_is_not, it's acceptable to follow a user's contributions for policy violations, since the contribution logs exist for editorial and behavioral oversight. Tracking P.'s contributions to see whether any violate his arbcom sanction would fall into that category. Novickas (talk) 03:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dojarca

I am shocked to see the administrators to prose a ban on reporting the topic ban violations by the EEML members, effectively creating an indulgency for them to do whatever they want. The only reason why Offliner makes such many reports is that there are so many violations and also the fact that the EEML gruop succeeded to drive so many their opponents out from Wikipedia so there is very little users remaining who can report their violations. Anyway there is no harm in such reports because we can see that the topic bans are not perfectly followed.

If Offliner wants he can notify me of any violations he spotted so I could report the violations here as a proxy if the admind do not welcome his reports any more. Dojarca (talk) 07:18, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Piotrus

Just a note that while I think that Piotrus's interpretation of the topic area might well have been a bit too wide in this case and that withdrawing is the correct thing to do, Offliner's insistence on trying to find fault with previous adversaries is more than a little worrisome. — Coren ^(talk) 18:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it might be a good idea to apply WP:BOOMERANG to discourage this sort of WP:BATTLE behavior. Jehochman ^Talk 18:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's more than a little worrisome that Coren has decided to declare Piotrus as "my adversary." I have never had any problems with Piotrus. Just because I happen to be the one who reports the edit -- which was admitted to have been a violation -- doesn't mean I have an adversarial relationship with Piotrus. Unless WP:EEML topic bans were just an ArbCom scam to make people think the problem has been solved, they need to be enforced. No one has been tasked with reporting the violations - and it seems that anyone who does gets immediately attacked. If Coren and Jehochman have something against me, I'm sure they can do the job instead and take full responsibility. Are you willing to do this? Offliner (talk) 18:16, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - It is apparent that you have an axe to grind and grasp at straws to find some reason to punish a certain group of editors. A denial of your adversarial relationship with that group of editors is absurdly jaw dropping and completely at odds with even a brief review of only your contributions to enforcement noticeboards. If you really do not understand the problem with this complaint, I suggest you accept that your judgment is clouded by a long, contentious history and take a self-imposed break from commenting in any way on those editors before an administrator imposes a break for you. Consider this a warning. Vassyana (talk) 18:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's wise to sanction over an isolated incident. Similarly, I don't think it's wise to sanction an editor if they've reported something that obviously had some validity and it's been of some benefit - it has served as a warning that the edit went too far. At the same time, we can't pretend nothing happened here. In regards to Piotrus, I think Mkativerata's suggestion is sufficent at this time. In regards to Offliner, I think Vassyana's warning is sufficient at this time (and Mkativerata's proposal makes it clear as to what may happen next). Strictly speaking, neither editor had clean hands when this came here, and both should have given a bit more thought as to what they were doing. Accordingly, I don't think anything beyond warnings are required to close this. Ncmvocalist (talk) 00:54, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to EdJohnston's list, Offliner has also brought another AE case against me [67]. I don't think two months is sufficient given the prior history and the seven month site ban. Another editor associated with Offliner had also continually brought complaints against myself and other former members of the EEML earlier this year. The ArbCom subsequently saw fit to indefinitely restrict that person from interacting with former EEML members [68] and this remedy has proved to be remarkably successful, allowing that person to continue to contribute good content while freeing him from the temptation of stalking his adversaries. Therefore I ask that a discretionary measure similar to the one enacted by the ArbCom be made along the following lines:

"Offliner (talk · contribs) is prohibited from commenting on or unnecessarily interacting with editors from the EEML case, except in the case of necessary dispute resolution."

--Martin (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How about this. Piotr runs his ideas for possibly problematic edits past User:Mkativerata, or User:EdJohnston, or User:Ncmvocalist first. Since he's said above that he sees the topic ban line as blurry, has quickly self-reverted his edits or let them be after disagreement, and those three seem willing to explain and help. And those who feel he may have violated it are free to do the same. No repercussions for either action. This might be burdensome to Mk, Ed, or Ncm, of course. It has been so to other editors. But not completely thankless. Thanks. Novickas (talk) 16:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Piotrus

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

My views are:

@Piotrus: this edit was too close to the line. Yes, the article on its title might not strictly be about a "dispute" of a relevant kind, but the last two prose sections of the article - one of which contained the relevant edit - clearly are. Accordingly, the article should be seen as being related to a relevant dispute. I do not see how Coren's very guarded advice to Piotrus on Coren's talk page could have given Piotrus any confidence to touch articles like this. However, I'm not inclined to take any action. The difficulty here is, to a large extent, with the drafting of the amended motion. The evidence above shows that Piotrus is making good faith attempts to comply with that motion and is not trying to game or wikilawyer it. As Coren said "If you trip over something in good faith, nobody's going to hold it against you as long as you are diligent in accepting that you may have erred and step away." Piotrus was also advised to "withdraw at the first sign of trouble". I would suggest Piotrus treat this AE as a sign of trouble.

@Offliner: Clearly Offliner is using AE to remove editors from the area of dispute. That is shown by his or her complete uninvolvement in the relevant article, the call for the strongest possible sanctions, and repeat AE filings. Just to be clear: this AE is not frivolous or baseless - I've said above that I think Piotrus was stepping too far. Also, the sad fact is that discretionary sanctions require enforcement, enforcement requires reporting, and reporting will inevitably come from involved editors. However the continued filing of AEs of this kind does nothing to help the avoidance of battleground behaviour. Clearly Offliner is following his or her opponents and looking for reasons to have them sanctioned. Continued behaviour of that kind needs to be prevented - it is far more damaging to the editing environment than the isolated line-ball allegations of topic bans that are being reported. For the purpose of preventing further escalation, I propose, under the authority of WP:DIGWUREN, a two-month ban on Offliner from participating in any dispute resolution or enforcement processes relating to user conduct in the area of conflict, except where the processes concern allegations of Offliner's own conduct. Ultimately, the project has more to lose by continued battleground behaviour than by missing isolated violations of the kind that Offliner might have otherwise discovered.

I'll leave this open for comment. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Mkativerata that Piotrus's work at Peace of Riga is over the line, since it is talking about disputes. I would not recommend any sanctions on Piotrus, but expect him to move to safer articles. I am sympathetic to restricting Offliner from posts at AE about Eastern Europe when his own conduct is not in question, for a reasonable period. Offliner was not himself involved in editing Peace of Riga, so Piotrus was not interfering with any plans that Offliner might have had for improving that article.
Since Offliner returned from a seven-month ban in August, he has spent surprisingly much time at AE complaining about the activities of EEML editors. Here are some of his edits:

Offliner's comments on AE and A/R/A about EEML participants since 1 September

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

19:02 on 28 September, submits comments on an existing Amendment request about EEML involving Piotrus

07:35 on 3 October, submits WP:AE#Martintg

19:35 on 1 November, submits his own statement on an existing request about Martintg

15:23 on 14 November, submits WP:AE#Vecrumba

07:47 on 6 December, submits WP:AE#Piotrus

-- EdJohnston (talk) 02:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Martintg

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Martintg

User requesting enforcement: Offliner (talk) 08:41, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Martintg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:EEML#Modified_by_open_motion_6

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[69] Removes the term extermination camp from the article The Holocaust in Estonia
[70]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Martintg was recently blocked for a week for a similar violation, see here
[71] Warning by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs)
[72] Warning by SirFozzie (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Block and reinstatement of full EE topic ban

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: As I said here, I believe Martintg has been violating his topic ban continuously from the very beginning. He still shows no signs of stopping despite his recent 1 week block. Offliner (talk) 08:41, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Martintg was warned not to toe the line, and again after his violation which led to the 1-week block. Offliner (talk) 13:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [73]

Discussion concerning Martintg

Statement by Martintg

Offliner states "I believe Martintg has been violating his topic ban continuously from the very beginning", surely that is a gross exaggeration as my recent edit history shows. I guess what this AE complaint demonstrates is that Offliner is closely stalking my edits, with little over two weeks until the expiry of my topic ban and over two months since his previous complaint on AE, the sum total of Offliner's complaint is two relatively minor edits (actually since they are consecutive they would constitute a single edit). Surely if I was violating my "topic ban continuously from the very beginning" there would be more diffs.

The first edit [74] I removed the text "(Nazi terminology about 'extermination camp')'" as it seemed out of context compared to the other sections and after checking both Nazi terminology and extermination camp and not finding anything about the term "Arbeits- und Erziehungslager" that seemed relevant, and it wasn't sourced. There is a "cleanup" template at the top of the page after all. The second consecutive edit was simply to correct a link to the actual article [75].

The Holocaust in Estonia is an article about a terribly heinous crime perpetrated by Nazis and their collaborators against Jewish people in Estonia during World War 2, there is simply no dispute about this in Estonia. So I am not sure how this would constitute an instance of a "national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe". Estonia is probably the least anti-semitic of all the Eastern/Central European countries. In the pre-war period when virulent anti-Semitism was growing in certain Eastern/Central European countries, Estonia had instituted some of the most progressive policies in regard to her Jewish citizens, enacting laws that protected Jewish cultural heritage in that country, to the extent that the Jewish National Endowment Keren Kajamet presented the Estonian government with a certificate of gratitude for this achievement, see Jews_in_Estonia#Jewish_autonomy_in_independent_Estonia. Just recently Estonia (along with Britain, Finland, France, Netherlands, Norway and Sweden) protested against antisemitism in Lithuania [76]. As I said, there is no dispute about this in Estonia.

However, that being said, if the admins here think this is an issue here I will voluntarily refrain from editing any articles regarding the Jewish people of Estonia for the remaining two weeks of my topic ban. --Martin (talk) 13:00, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Martintg

Please note that as I pointed out above, after a discussion with an arbitrator, I was under the impression that articles related to the Holocaust and WWII do not fall under the topic ban in question. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Completely opposite. World War II period is the most controversial period in the history of the Baltic region. It is the source of the original Digwuren sanctions and the EEML case.--Dojarca (talk) 07:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Martintg

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I have blocked Martintg for three weeks, since this is their second violation of the topic ban in question, the first being from October. Given that, I'm leaving this open because I'm going to suggest extending or modifying the topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:06, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ronda2001

Blocked for 3 weeks

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Ronda2001

User requesting enforcement: O Fenian (talk) 09:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Ronda2001 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Further remedies

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[77] Revert 1
[78] Revert 2, within 24 hours of the first

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

[79] Warning by O Fenian (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): Topic ban and/or block

Additional comments by editor filing complaint: Ronda was previously blocked for a 1RR violation on Lebanese Civil War. The block was then extended for using an Australian IP. Since that block expired, Ronda2001's only edits are to revert to his preferred version on 3 December and 7 December. The latter edit caused me to make this proposal, in the hope the editor could be reformed by being made to discuss his edit. Sadly not, as another Australian IP turns up to revert to Ronda2001's preferred version. Stronger measures than my proposal on AN are obviously called for, thank you. O Fenian (talk) 09:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [80]

Discussion concerning Ronda2001

Statement by Ronda2001

Comments by others about the request concerning Ronda2001

Result concerning Ronda2001

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Given this is another clear cut violation, I think a 1-month block is required. PhilKnight (talk) 09:52, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've decided to be slightly more lenient and blocked for three weeks. A one month block would be a quadrupling of their previous block, which I feel would be disproportionate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[a]

[b]

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