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As far as I know, China has never claim such a language. China considers the Chahar-Khalkha-Oirat-Horchin-Harchin, Bargu-Buriat and Oriat the three great dialect groups of Mongolian (sometimes Horchin-Harchin is split), but never claim a language called “Southern Mongolian”or “South Mongolian”. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi)✍05:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"China" does not tend to make any claims about Mongolian varieties spoken outside of China. It is correct that Chinese language policy claims the 3 varieties you mention to be dialect groups. But your claim about Khalkha is wrong. The inclusion of Shilin gol into Chakhar and the failure to mention Khalkha as a variety spoken in Inner Mongolia clearly shows this. To refute this claim, please show me authoritative literature (best by the Language Council of Inner Mongolia) that claims that Khalkha and Chakhar are one and the same dialect group. If you deign to look up Secenbagatur et al. 2005 (which is written by established Inner Mongolian scholars), you can get an overview of the available classifications yourself. Second point: how are these dialect groups of China called? Oirat, Bargu-Buryat and Öbür Monggol. The latter can be translated into English as "South Mongolian". I don't want to revert your move, though. I think "Standard Mongolian (China)" is a more helpful way to name this variety than striving for a more direct translation. But this still leaves you with the challenge to show inhowfar this articles (as it is now) is confusing or biased. Else I would have to remove the tags. G Purevdorj (talk) 18:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I actually like your renaming, but would you be so kind as to provide a few sources that (in Chinese, Mongolian or English) use a terminology that really could be translated as Standard Mongolian? If not, I fear we have to undo your renaming. (And yes, while I think of it: could you please get used to the convention that you should FIRST discuss, THEN move? There are two points at Wikipedia:Moving a page#Before moving a page that you should hold in mind. E.g. if you think that the previous naming was partisan (and yours is not), this is reason to believe that your move WILL be controversial.) G Purevdorj (talk) 19:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Proposed move
I am really surprised that 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) first made such a magnificent move and then takes a wikibreak. What her/his move has accomplished is a discrepancy between the article content (which describes a proposed dialect grouping) and its name (which describes a standard language). Given that this article is clearly NOT about barimjiya abiya per se, I am the more uncomfortable with this renaming the more I think about it. There is probably no alternative to moving it back, or, as 虞海 pointed out somewhere else, to "Southern Mongolian" instead of "South Mongolian". I actually have to investigate into this before moving, but I guess 虞海 might even have been right here. I will do so next week. But I already write this notification in order to give anybody the chance to defend the current page title. G Purevdorj (talk) 20:29, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In fact I may take w wikibreak in every case. This time I will try to find a source of “Standard Mongolian”, but before that, please tell me what is the difference between “Standard voice of Mongolian language” and “Standard Mongolian language”, or I'll never know what kinds of citation you need (I failed to get your point). ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi)✍10:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
My time online is more severely limited than I thought and this computer even prevents me from logging in. But let's try to get to the point as far as I can understand your question. For there is no "Standard Mongolian" to begin with. There are two words in use. 1. "Barimjiya abiya" ("model sounds" -> "Standard pronunciation"), the standard pronunciation of Mongolian in China as defined by linguists who took the pronunciation of the Shuluun Hoh Banner and did away with all perceived irregularities. 2. Obur monggol ayalgu ("Southern Mongolian" or "Inner Mongolian") which includes every dialect of Mongolian spoken in China which is neither classified as Oirat nor Buryat. (This includes Bargu, which in official classifications is always classified along with Buryat.) While you can say that "Southern Mongolian" is the grammatical standard of Mongolian in China, I am not aware of anybody who used the word "Standard Mongolian" in a terminological way as related to the standard of Mongolian in China. So I wonder if you can come up with any Chinese citations ... G Purevdorj (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There was no new input, so I now (rather belatedly) moved and removed. I would ask 虞海 who did an unjustified move for the second time to engage in a discussion before moving in the future. Else, in spite of all perceivable good intention, such behaviour has a disruptive effect and causes more work than the other way round. G Purevdorj (talk) 07:11, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry about my failure on having an eye on this article, but what's your exact idea about the name "Southern Mongolian"? At least I didn't find any terms like 内蒙古语 or 南蒙古语 in China, nor did I find any terms like “Obur monggol ayalgu”. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi)✍09:10, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is, terms such as 内蒙古方言 as opposed to Buriat and Oirat, but it's never 内蒙古语 or 南蒙古语 as opposed to Khalkha, since Khalkha in Inner Mongolia is a branch of the 内蒙古方言. The use of “Southern Mongolian language” is offensive (consider, for example, if I call your language “Northern Mongolian language”). ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi)✍09:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can I interpret your comment in this way: I should to seek for sources about “Standard grammar of Mongolian language” rather than “Standard voice/pronunciation of Mongolian language”? ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi)✍09:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have a comment: since this article is about language, but "Southern Mongolian" (or "Standard Mongolian") is an adjective word which does not necessarily refer to a language (but can be anything related to Southern or Inner Mongolia), so neither is very appealing to me. Maybe Southern or Inner Mongolian language should be the better name? Also, considering the term "Southern Mongolian language" does not seem to be widely used, I personally think "Inner Mongolian language" is perhaps better. Thanks for considering. --64.56.255.19 (talk) 02:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neither term is conventionalized in English. övör may be understood in a geographical sense, cf. Övörkhangai Province. There is also a paper of Höhbaatar on a teminological change from “Dotood” ‘Inner’ to “Övör” [1. ‘lab’ 2.] ‘southern side of a mountain’ ([Abstract]), according to which Inner Mongolia used to be called “Dotood mongol” . Consequently, the translation “Inner Mongolian” is a way to disambiguate the term that Mongolians in modern day China strove to avoid. “Southern Mongolian” is the other possible disambiguation. I am not really concerned whether you add “language” to the article name or not. It gets more clumsy by that, but gets disambiguated in a way. G Purevdorj (talk) 08:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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