User talk:Doc9871

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My first (and probably last!) BLP

My interest to create George R. Dekle, Sr. came from the chess variants side (of course!). Am curious, how you got *your* interest in the Bundy article. I see it's been quite long-term, too. Ok, IHTS (talk) 09:12, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I read The Stranger Beside Me in the early '90's and was intrigued by the case. The article's come a long way since I first edited it.[1] Doc talk 09:33, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. (The improvement.) I've a friend who also read Stranger Beside Me ~ same timeframe as you (I haven't read it), who kept supporting me to finish the BLP I did ... That book must be a page turner!? (Maybe I'll read now.) IHTS (talk) 10:10, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On "Outing"

@Bishonen:, I'm not going to pursue it at AN/I, and I fear you'd delete a thread on your talk page, so I'll ask you here. I also fear that you may ignore this thread, but that would be something that a good admin should not do. You are, after all, an administrator, and I think it's imperative that we clear something up in regards to policy.

Now then, here you say: "Linking an account and an IP amounts to revealing real-life information about an editor, because IP's carry some RL details."[2] Where do you see this stated in policy, specifically? Doc talk 08:36, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What Bishonen said is correct: IP address can carry information about their users' geolocation. This, I believe, is why checkusers (who can see users' IP addresses) are discouraged from publicly linking users to specific IPs. (See Wikipedia:CheckUser#IP_information_disclosure). ~Awilley (talk) 16:05, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input, Awilley. I fully understand why CUs won't publicly link IPs to named accounts. I was pointing out that unofficially linking a named account to an IP is not only not prohibited or even discouraged; it's the purpose of many SPI reports. You certainly don't need a Checkuser to establish sockpuppetry. Linking users to specific IPs is done all the time - the major difference is the "public/official" part. The WP:SOCKTAG instructions have 1 place for the sockmaster, and separate sections for named and IP accounts because sockmasters obviously use both. Cheers :> Doc talk 07:34, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Specifics re: BMK

Re: "Aside from the warning you suggested: what are you seeking to... "happen" to BMK as a result of this thread?" Other interested parties should participate in the discussion and reached consensus. No one else (other than you) has discussed it yet. Once others, specifically admins, participate, discuss, reach consensus, and close the discussion, I will reply here as specifically as I can. Furry-friend (talk) 11:02, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can't file an AN/I report without a specific remedy for editors to consider. You seriously don't get it. Who do you think you're dealing with here? I suggest you chiggedity-check yourself before you wreck yourself. Your report is going absolutely, 100% nowhere. Doc talk 11:06, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests/ANI:

Please read before opening a case at the Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
This page is for reporting and discussing incidents about an editor's conduct on the English Wikipedia that require the intervention of administrators and experienced editors.
*You will need "diffs" (links) that illustrate the problem being reported.
*Before posting a grievance about a user please consider discussing the issue on the user's talk page.
*Do not report issues requiring oversight (enhanced deletion of content). Instead, send an email to: [email protected]

Could you please link to the policy that says "You can't file an AN/I report without a specific remedy for editors to consider"? Furry-friend (talk) 11:10, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is the fourth time I'm asking you this incredibly simple question. In the AN/I you state: "I believe the multiple AN/I clearly show a pattern of violation of WP:CONDUCT through personal attacks, edit-warring through abuse of the WP:BRD process, and general civility issues, which require preventative measures." He sounds like a monster. Now, here go again... "What preventative measures do you recommend?" Do you understand the question? If I have to ask you the same question for a FIFTH time, your case is in serious trouble. Doc talk 11:16, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You asked, I answered, you asked for more specifics, said I'll give more specifics after consensus has been reached, you said AN/I can't be filed "without a specific remedy", I showed W:DSR/ANI has no such requirement. Furthermore WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE has no such requirement. Can you show me where this requirement is made? If you will politely wait for others, in particular admins, to discuss, reach consensus, and close the AN/I, I will reply here as specifically as I can. Furry-friend (talk) 11:25, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Shaddap. I replied at AN/I. Don't come back here. Doc talk 11:31, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I can't say I'm familiar with the requirement that one request specific remedies when filing an ANI report; that doesn't match my experience with the place. Unless you're planning to fight every editor in that thread you might consider taking a step back. Mackensen (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

God, you people... Listen. I didn't say it was required. At no point did I use the word "required". I said you "can't", as in logically you can't file a complaint without even recommending what should happen and expect to have a successful report. I hope he gets off just on procedural error. ~~Don't you come back here either.~~ Jeez. Doc talk 12:28, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bad history?

Hi Doc, I couldn't help but notice your comment at User talk:Mr rnddude that I have a "bad history" with you and that I "threatened you" because of it. I have no recollection of any such history (and, in fact, I have great respect for you as a very experienced editor), and I certainly did not intend my comment to come across as threatening (and I apologise if it sounded that way). I simply wanted to clarify the requirements for posting at ANI and to try to defuse the escalating aggression that I was seeing. Best regards - Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We're good - sorry I was getting increasingly testy and it was time to log off for me because of it. We don't have a bad history. Cheers :) Doc talk 03:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, OK, I'm relieved to hear it ;-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:24, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please help me?

Hello Doc, could you please extend me the courtesy of reading the last few short entries on the Kingdom of Ulidia talk page, particularly, the one Mabuska left after you closed his complaint against me and my response. What can I do to bring this vile, disruptive nonsense to an end? I'm at my wits end. I thought we were all going to proceed to mediating are content issues on the Wikipedia Article page with help of Oshwah. User:Albiet

I'll give it a look. In order to properly sign your name at the end of posts, you must type a space followed by four tildes. This would be ~~~~. It took me awhile to get it too. Doc talk 04:17, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Doc, thank you for the info and your interest. Albiet (talk) 16:48, 10 July 2016 (UTC)User:Albiet[reply]

Thanks for jump starting the mediation. Albiet (talk) 12:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)Albiet[reply]

No problem! Let's practice the signature again. All you do is type the four tildes, and you don't need to add anything else at the end. No need to Copypaste your name anymore. Just the 4 tildes. Try it for me. Doc talk 12:42, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Or just press the button that says "Sign your posts on talk pages" and it'll automatically do it for you. Like so, Mr rnddude (talk) 15:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why, yes indeedily! I never saw that until just now. It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out the tildes thing when I started. Cheers ;) Doc talk 15:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Learn something new everyday. In any case; No problem :) Mr rnddude (talk) 15:14, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. FWIW, I would ask me about SPI over Softlavender if you want decent advice. Doc talk 15:52, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You stalk far too many pages Doc, but, I'll bite, what interesting piece of advice or news do you have. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I actually know what I'm talking about in SPI matters, unlike Softlavender. For a start. Doc talk 15:54, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I recognize SPI isn't particularly easy to prove or even start, CU won't go after nothing and comparing two users is basically detective work. That, is probably the grand sum of my knowledge about SPI. Oh, and we ban confirmed sockpuppets that violate the rules. That too. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:57, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Softlavender is not a detective-type. I've done actual detective SPI work. You need diffs. Lots of good diffs. Not just assurances that there's "plenty of evidence". If a SPI case is a "slam-dunk" a good investigator can come up with some choice diffs on command that would convince even a skeptic. Doc talk 16:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Softlavender's continued passive-agressive ignoring of me is a very bad sign from any editor. Extremely unprofessional. I wouldn't listen to anything they have to say. Doc talk 16:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You've done SPI work, I swear it has to be like the forensic investigation unit of Wikipedia. I'm just your average snooper, I have no equitable skills either. What I was hoping to do was pin their first interaction and trace their connections from there. The thing that I find odd, though not impossible, is that they never met anywhere prior to AfD. The earliest interaction (that I have found), 19th and 20 May 2016 at the AfD for Renegade Party. They don't seem to actually interact properly anywhere except, they've put one barnstar on each others page, AfD's (especially against HappyValleyEditor) and of course AN/I. That strikes me as, suspicious, and of course "when I get suspicious about a new account, you better believe I'm going to ask a few questions". Mr rnddude (talk) 16:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know you and Softlavender don't get along, the thread directly above mine on their page is quite indicative of that. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Softlavender should know a lot better. There is nothing more insulting than being ignored. It's incredibly unproductive, and it will reflect on them poorly. Doc talk 16:17, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~It's unfortunate, but, would you rather combative or silent? Mr rnddude (talk) 16:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)~~ Combative, actually what a stupid question, at least you can respond to combative. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. And Softlavender knows this. Very rarely do I encounter this level of hostility, and even more rarely from a seasoned editor. What a shame. Doc talk 16:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried burying the hatchet? awkward as it may be. Actually what set it off? this a long-time issue or a recent development? Mr rnddude (talk) 16:27, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've dealt with all sorts here. The best, the worst. As I said before, there is nothing more insulting than being ignored as if you didn't exist. Especially when you know you're dealing with an experienced editor in good standing. So Softlavender can basically expect to get her ass handed to her if she oversteps her bounds. Doc talk 16:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, that's one way to end a dispute, send a warning threat to them, that'll teach 'er a lesson. Doc, I recognize you're insulted, greatly, I'd be too. It's not worth banging your head over, she doesn't want to talk to you, who cares. You've got a lot of different things to do around here and many people to help. Focus on that, I'd have fared a lot better somedays if I just skipped a pointless argument and went and did something productive instead. Shockingly I'm turning to BMK here, "Just let shit go", written in big words on his talkpage, why? "because life is too short". In any case, I have to depart for now, see you later Doc, Mr rnddude (talk) 16:39, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting your AN comment

Sorry about that- had an edit conflict n the phone and didn't realise I erased your post! _Muffled ^Pocketed 11:21, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Heh - I know. No worries ;) Doc talk 11:36, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.