Talk:History of navigation

Split from Navigation

This page was split from Navigation. Haus^Talk 14:30, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

On the topic of navigation, there is mention of Henry's foundation of an observatory and school of navigation. However, there is argument on this topic amongst historians. Joaquinn Pedro Oliveira Martins, in his book The Golden Age of Prince Henry the Navigator asserts that the observatory and school were well developed. On the other hand, Francisco Bethencourt in Portuguese Oceanic Expansion, 1400-1800 says that the evidence to support the school of navigation is evasive at best and, at the most, it was a basic gathering of individuals invited to Sagres by Henry.--Casini1 (talk) 18:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Richard Norwood/Robert Norman

The Age of Dicovery last para.

Richard Norwood measured the length of a nautical mile with chains.[10] His definition of 2040 yeards is fairly close to the modern International System of Units (SI) definition of 2025.372 yards. Norwood is also credited with the discovery of magnetic dip 59 years earlier, in 1576.[10]

But in Robert Norman

Robert Norman was a 16th century British mariner, compass builder, and hydrographer.

He is noted for his London publication in 1581 of The Newe Attractive, a pamphlet discussing the lodestone or magnet, as well as practical aspects of navigation. More importantly it included his discovery of the "magnetic dip", which caused the needle of a compass to incline at an angle from the horizon. This was caused by the magnetic field of the Earth not running parallel to the surface. 81.155.186.149 15:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure what the concern is... A 1576 discovery versus a 1581 publication? Haus^Talk 01:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I see now. Was it Richard Norwood or Robert Norman? I double-checked Britannica and it does indeed credit "Richard Norwood" with the discovery of magnetic dip. I'm all for changing it if we can find a reasonable citation. Cheers. Haus^Talk 14:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Precession not Wobble Changes Apparent Star Position

I'm very certain that in the except copied from the article below the implication that star constellations change position as a result of "wobble" is very wrong.

This change in the position of the stars is due to the wobble of the Earth on its axis which affects primarily the pole stars. Around 1000 BC the constellation Draco would have been closer to the North Pole than Polaris. The pole stars were used to navigate because they did not disappear below the horizon and could be seen consistently throughout the night.

Rather, a phenomenon called "precession" , over thousands of years, changes the apparent position of the constellations. It is also not accurate to say that it affects primarily the pole star as all stars change their apparent position. I'll be glad to fix it if there's no objection. --130.76.96.149 (talk) 00:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC).

Mediterranean

"Hugging the coast" is not only impractical and unnecessary but ruled out by sea mists and darkness. An unlit shoreline is extremely difficult to see on a dark night. For many vessels it would seem that there was no need for a harbour, in an essentially tide free Sea, for you simply haul the boat out onto the beach, with or without ballast as you felt necessary. Tarragona did not have a fishing harbour until the middle of the 20th Century and (I am told) the first evidence of harbour works was in the 11th Centry AD when the stones of the ruined Roman city were used as a breakwater, the earlier sailing skills having all been lost during the dark ages.

Does "crash" mean "founder" or is the author simply suggesting that ancient boats frequently ran into the rocks? What is the hard evidence for this in the same way as they are known to have been lost at sea, possibly through naval action, overloading, or simply going rotten?

The seas in the Mediterranean tend to be short, choppy and unpleasant. There are frequent swells, sometimes clearly coming from two directions at the smae time. There are winds, such as the Tramontana and Mistral which are spectacularly unpleasant, especially in the Golf du Lyon and the Baei of Rosas, but dangerous on a relative scale?

Drg40 (talk) 17:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Greece

The circumpolar stars were known to the ancient Egyptians as the "eternals" and this knowledge was very much earlier than 300BC.

In Marseille it is recorded that the city was captured by the Greeks in 660BC as a result of their desire to control the river traffic from the UK and Northern France and hence the raw materials for bronze - or perhaps the finished product. This trade therefore was in full swing before 660BC, and Pytheas would not need to step onto a ship to hear tales of life in Britain from hundreds of years of collective experience.

I suggest a look at the maps. If the boats were at risk in the "dangerous" storms in the Mediterranean, they sure as whatsit weren't going up the west coast of Portugal. So Pytheas simply didn't perform the voyage as described. Bit like Columbus, really. However, it would be possible to get to Brittany and Britain by taking ship in A Corunna and sailing from there, which would begin to put logic and scale into any precursor of the Tower of Hercules. And that would also explain why A Corunna is called the gateway to the Mediterranean.

Presumably up the Rhone and Saone and off perhaps to the Marne and the Seine as a river passage posed problems of it own, not least because any exit from the river system along the N coast of France, Holland, Belgium etc would lead to a passage down the English Channel, skirting little problems like the Alderney race. Now that IS dangerous. So going N and slightly W from A Corunna, and round Cap Gris Nez one could avoid one or two really nasty experiences.

Of course, you could do what is advised today for the safe passage of small craft from Cadiz to (say) Plymouth or Brest and go out to the Azores, but then you'd be so much closer to America that you might have a bad day and fall over it, so we shouldn't take that any further or we might think the unthinkable.

Drg40 (talk) 17:58, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

File:KizkulesiminiatureNusretColpan.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:KizkulesiminiatureNusretColpan.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Other speedy deletions What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 10:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC) batman bruce wayne

WP:ERA

Per this edit, the usage of the page was established as BC/AD. Kindly maintain it consistently. — LlywelynII 15:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)