Talk:2019 Beirut drone crash

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Aviation: Accidents Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

This article is supported by the Aviation accident project.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Explosives Start‑class

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Explosives, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Explosives on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ExplosivesWikipedia:WikiProject ExplosivesTemplate:WikiProject ExplosivesExplosives articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Israel Start‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.
- Merge Nahal Rafiah (draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Lebanon Start‑class

	Lebanon portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lebanon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Libanon-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LebanonWikipedia:WikiProject LebanonTemplate:WikiProject LebanonLebanon articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Military history: Middle East Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Associated task forces:
/
	Middle Eastern military history task force

POV

This claims of Hezbollah is alleged it doesn't mean we should remove it.The Israeli claims reported by WP:RS and hence WP:DUE.--Shrike (talk) 15:58, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Give a reliable source of that claim.Mr.User200 (talk) 15:59, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Times of Israel [1] and ynet [2] --Shrike (talk) 16:05, 26 August 2019 (UTC)}[reply]

"The release of photographs of a drone that crashed in the Lebanese capital Beirut early Sunday morning cast doubt on the claim by the Hezbollah terror group that the craft belonged to the Israeli military, with some Israeli analysts speculating that the unmanned aerial vehicle was in fact an Iranian model."

Please avoid weasel Words. [WP:Alleged]Mr.User200 (talk) 16:08, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:NPOV we bring both claims.The hezbollah has no proof that those drones are Israeli --Shrike (talk) 16:10, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The second sources look fair to me. It clearly states the claim. Iam adding it dont worry.Mr.User200 (talk) 16:12, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Better but my version is even better as it actually follows WP:NPOV and gives both claim equal weight as no one really knows what the WP:TRUTH is --Shrike (talk) 16:17, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Those Israeli sources seem to have written the analyst early on, before the purpose of the attack, damage and Hezbollah response were announced. After their cover was blown Israeli media shifted towards accepting responsibility.[3] Even if the analyst you have given are true, Israel struck a second site in Lebanon the next day.(second time since 2006 counting this one) Therefore it makes this one more likely to be done by Israel. Bill497 (talk) 16:15, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The meida cannot accept responsibility as it not a government but even you source write that "If Israel was behind this attack..." as it have no knowledge who behind it . --Shrike (talk) 16:32, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That Israeli media article seems important too. Not all Israeli media point their fingers at Iran at all. I will fix that. Also, Shrike your edits are personal Research since Israel have declined to comment on the event. No formal accusation on Iran made.Mr.User200 (talk) 16:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We only report what the source say.They say that according Israeli analysts judging by photographs those were Iranian drones.Please read WP:RS and WP:NPOV -Shrike (talk) 16:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but we need a source indicating Israeli Government is accusing Iran if not its Personal Research, Plain and Simple.Mr.User200 (talk) 16:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No where in source it says that "Israeli media" said something.Currently the article give one sided pro Lebanese POV. Please return the POV tag the problem was solved yet--Shrike (talk) 17:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Future of the article.

I really dont know what going on, in the heads of some people regarding this article. Be patient lets wait until more information comes out, to make changes.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can't read your mind, either. Which people, what information, what changes? In general, articles should always only have verifiable content, in the future and the past, you're presumably right about that. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:55, August 26, 2019 (UTC)

DEBKAfile as source?

Is DEBKAfile a reliable source? Really? The articles seem contradictory and speculative to me. Is it likely that a Harpy could be brought down by a kid with a rock? A photograph elsewhere clearly shows a four-propeller drone, clearly not a Harpy, and I don't find it likely that it would have the range to fly from Israel. The whole story is just a mess, with no plausible information or corroborating evidence from anyone.

Ketil (talk) 21:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why contradictory and ehy not plausible information?Mr.User200 (talk) 21:24, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Debka is not WP:RS for example see this discussion at WP:RSN [4] --Shrike (talk) 12:19, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Allegedly by Israel

Folks as far as I can see, Israel has not accepted that it did. Israel Media are alleging Iran did it. Whatever may be the case, we cannot say this in Wikipedia's voice. Accordingly I have added alleged in the infobox. Proper attributions need to be given for any statement alleging that Israel or Iran did it. Nothing should be added in wikipedia's voice here. --DBig Xrayᗙ 05:56, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"3 people injured"

That's behind a paywall now, and I didn't touch that source nor am I able to verify it. Reuters says there was only material damage [5]. This source claims 3 people injured [6]. It doesn't even matter who Prensa Latina is, I think I understand why they and the Financial Times seem to agree on this. At least Fidel Castro cites its sources, but "an anonymous inside Hezbollah" still doen't convince me. Haaretz blames the info on Lebanon's National News Agency [7], but among the many articles discussing the attack, I can't find any that mentions injured people. This is the official statement of the Lebanese Army to NNA: [8]. No mention of injuries. Wakari07 (talk) 21:19, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]