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I had a similar thought (but I also know very little about ichthyosaurs). Was there any specific reasoning behind that particular fin placement? -SlvrHwk (talk) 06:32, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, not really besides that whales of similar sizes seem to have if slightly further back, I know it’s a bit speculative but maybe there’s a purpose for that. SeismicShrimp (talk) 10:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Between that and the large tail fluke, I think it's much better to stick to the anatomy of known shastasaurids than inventing something new for an animal known from mandibles. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 12:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
The proportions look like a mix of Guanlingsaurus and Shonisaurus (based on head size and trunk depth), but some features seem to fall outside of known variation among "shastasaurs". The forelimb length in particular seems pretty excessive, nearly as long as the trunk; they are significantly shorter even in the long-limbed Guizhouichthyosaurus. The hip region and preflexural tail seem excessively deep; shastasaurs were typically fairly slender animals (Shonisaurus is a bit of an exception), and even the thunnioform ichthyosaurs like Stenopterygius seem to have skinnier tails. Additionally, the tail fin seems quite short, in Guizhouichthyosaurus and Shonisaurus, it seems like they take up half the length of the tail. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 14:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Ichthyotitan size comparison diagram
Ichthyotitan size
Trying to keep things together here for future reference so I'm posting this as a subsection of the above.
It seems to follow the proportions of Shonisaurus popularis fairly closely, though it looks like the tail fin is a bit small relative to the preflexural tail compared to this species and Guizhouichthyosaurus. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 14:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
The preflexural tail (the part between the hips and the tail fin, basically the part of the tail before the bend; my apologies, I probably should have explained that) still seems kind of long relative to the postflexural (fin) portion. Some other thoughts: Hartman's Shonisaurus has quite a steep tailbend, steeper than Kosch's 1990 reconstruction that McGowan & Motani (1999) described as "far too steep", so making it shallower might be warranted. Additionally, since we have almost no information to go on regarding what Ichthyotitan looked like in life, I wonder if putting a question mark in the silhouette might be warranted. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 16:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I made some further adjustments to the caudal region and added a question mark. Let me know if any further fixes are needed. -SlvrHwk (talk) 03:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Here is my latest art released, a sketch for the new and colossal Ichthyotitan! I also have a piece for Gamatavus that I've had sitting around on Wikimedia for about a year now, and I never got the time to also share it. With that said, please let me know your thoughts on these two!
SpinoDragon145 (talk) 05:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
I can't speak much for ichthyosaurs, and of course there is a lot we don't know with Ichthyotitan, but based on other reconstructions (including the "official" commissioned illustrations) the dorsal fin (if it had one) should maybe be less prominent and more posteriorly placed. Maybe the torso should be deeper, too?
The Gamatavus pieces looks nice but is very dark, making it difficult to clearly see the animal in the landscape. -SlvrHwk (talk) 06:55, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Since Ichthyotitan is only known from lower jaw bone fragments, a lot of whats in the sketch is speculation. The overall anatomy is referenced from mostly Shastasaurus and Shonisaurus just slightly for the head shape, and the dorsal fin is based off of a Mixosaurus specimen that preserves a dorsal fin. Nevertheless, I'll see what I can do about the mass of the torso and size of the dorsal fin.
As for Gamatavus, it's time I made this piece brighter anyway since that's the main critique I get from this one, lol. Thanks for the advice! SpinoDragon145 (talk) 02:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't think we can necessarily consider the dorsal fin placement as inaccurate, currently all we can really say about "shastasaur" dorsal fins is that they probably existed. I haven't done a detailed check, but I'm not sure if the torso here is necessarily too shallow either; Shonisaurus popularis is actually pretty unusual among large "shastasaurs", which more typically have shallower bodies. If anything, given how poor the Ichthyotitan material is I think it would be better to show a variety of interpretations, rather than just make everything a giant Shonisaurus popularis. I'll see if I can do a more detailed review of all the Ichthyotitan restorations here in the coming week. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 13:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Based on other "shastasaurs" (and most ichthyosaurs in general), the nostrils probably should be lower on the skull and oriented more laterally; they are higher up in Shonisaurus popularis but in that taxon they're closer to the eyes, and once again that species is an exception to the typical rule. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 14:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Possible life restoration of Ichthyotitan severnensis
Hi, wanna put this Ichthyotitan restoration up for review, since the remains aren't that good I based some of it off related Ichthyosaurs like Shonisaurus, though I don't usually make artwork of Ichthyosaurs so I've very little idea how much I got it right... Please check it out and let me know if there's any problem with it, thanks! :)
Edit: I should also probably mention all the art references I've used for this, I used the size comparison on its page by SlvrHwk based on Shonisaurus, the artwork by Sergey Krasovskiy and one by Gabriel Ugueto Ansh Saxena 7163 (talk) 06:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Judging by Shonisaurus popularis, which this restoration seems to be very similar to, the nostrils should probably be further back, the preflexural tail shorter and the tail fin longer. I almost wonder though if this might work better repurposed as a life restoration of Shonisaurus? For future reference, I would recommend using fossils and skeletal diagrams as references for life restorations, rather than other life restorations. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 14:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Apologies for the late response, and thank you for the review... I will make the changes that you mentioned as soon as I get more time for this. Though since there's very little material that gives a good clue about this thing's life appearance, I didn't think it'd be wise to stray from other related ichthyosaurs, at least until better material is assigned to it.. Ansh Saxena 7163 (talk) 17:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
The anatomy seems pretty similar to Shonisaurus popularis, which makes the apparent lack of teeth seem odd; the toothless shastasaurs seem to typically have shorter snouts, where the more longirostrine ones (Shonisaurus, Guizhouichthyosaurus, and Besanosaurus) all have teeth of some sort. The eye looks too low on the head. The postcranium looks kind of odd as well; there seems to be a sort of hump immediately behind the hips that makes it look like the body is bent pretty sharply dorsoventrally; additionally, the shading on the flippers and the way that they attach to the body makes them look almost conical rather than flat. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 14:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
It looks pretty good based on fossil images and a model I found from the Yale Peabody museum, but I am very unfamiliar with the specifics on these worms. Fossiladder13 (talk) 00:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
@PaleoEquii: also created reconstruction of Pambdelurion (originally created as Omnidens and posted to Twitter but I recommended him to upload this as Pambdelurion). Spines on frontal appendage looks like different from reconstruction by @Junnn11:, but I think spine numbers are uncertain? Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
I think so. Some specimens seems to show a bit more of them. In my opinion, Even the size of frontal appendage itself seems to be somewhat variable (flexible?) as well. Junnn11 (talk) 02:15, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure its related but yes the appendages are extremely flexible. The appendage and head anatomy here was based on Supplementary Figure 9 of Young & Vinther (2016), MGUH 31551. This one shows the many thin elongate spines well, as well as the cephalic spines, and the extreme flexure of one of the appendages. PaleoEquii (talk) 04:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Pliodetes nigeriensis
Created life restoration of Pliodetes, lepisosteiform from Elrhaz Formation. Proportion and fin placement are based on Wenz (1999) (inaccessible, I obtained from resource exchange and shared that in discord server), and head anatomy is based on Cavin and Suteethorn (2006).[2] I already got review by User:Orthocormus but any opinions from others? Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 01:27, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
Dichodon
Hey folks, our next Eocene European mammal, Dichodon.
Made this artwork to be included in the Tanis (fossil site) page. It was a bit challenging to guess where I should ask for advice in this piece, given there isn't much going on, but I decided to add it here for review.
YellowPanda2001 (talk) 12:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Seems extremely unlikely that a turtle could ever get spiked through the entire carapace by a branch like that... FunkMonk (talk) 18:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
An impaled turtle was found at the Tanis sight, but this illustration was clearly not informed by the preserved material. As can be seen in the fossil, the branch enters near the head and leaves near the leg, thus not penetrating the carapace as shown here. Also strange that the image specifically depicts a nanhsiungchelyid rather than a baenid, since the specimen was suggested to have affinities with the latter clade. I agree with previous comments regarding overall clarity and detail. -SlvrHwk (talk) 04:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
In my defense, this was a piece inspired by the finds in the Tanis, not necessarily a depiction of the actual fossils we find there. I wasn't, indeed, aware of what kind of turtle was the one impaled in the tree, just that it was a turtle. Considering the setting, a baenid seems just as likely as a nanhsiungchelyid, though the latter was ultimately the one chosen. Lacking much awareness of how exactly the turtle was impaled, naturally the result of this art was merely a product of imagination rather than one taken from a direct reference of the fossil, though I assumed the overall strength of a blast could, hypothetically, allowed a turtle shell to break after colliding against a strong tree branch, though perhaps that's still unrealistic (ultimately I suppose the lack of available pictures of the fossils reported from Tanis was a contributor to the poorly informed conclusions here, but maybe I just didn't look in the right places).
Regardless, thank you for the replies. I was a bit reticent about this artwork of mine, not going to lie, but I still thought it was worth giving it a try. YellowPanda2001 (talk) 23:29, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, could probably be impaled~in other ways, but the scenario shown here looks unlikely. But I don't know the details of the fossil, of course. FunkMonk (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Seems that this image is added to page without review, and uploader seems to be author of the research[3] Dan Valentin Palcu. Seems that this image origins at late 2023.[4] Maybe it would be fine that is created by paper author himself, but there is some concerns, that first image includes multiple logos, and size chart seems to directly taken from Prehistoric Wildlife (which is already dead website, here is archive link[5][6]). How should we deal that and other than that are there any issues? Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 12:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
There's errors in the chart. The paragraph refers to that small whale as Cetiotherium, but the size chart refers to it as Ceratotherium. A Cynical Idealist (talk) 08:04, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
It's now a much closer match to D. acanthocercus, though the grooves on the raptorial appendages, tail fan and final abdominal segment still seem to be missing (I annotated a figure from Schram (2007) to show what I mean: here). Olmagon (talk) 20:44, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
The abdomen apparently lacking 1 short basal segment (see fig. 12). Other than that it looks nice to me as well.
Thoracic region around the wing base might be more complex like a dragonfly, but the previous reconstruction of this region are best considered doubtful (the author is known for faking insect fossil anatomy). Without further information, I think it's better to keep it rather simple like this artwork for now. Junnn11 (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
I have already added another segment. And thanks for the information!, I will leave the wing base unchanged if that is better. Qohelet12 (talk) 13:37, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
I am very rusty in my knowledge of Synapsids and even more so in their anatomy, and this image is from 2017, but I gave it a little background and improvements to make it look better. Levi bernardo (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
I was thinking about it, at the time of giving color to the background, it is very clear that it does indeed need correction in the posture of the legs, I will be reading more about this point in some papers and I will correct that detail. Thank you. Levi bernardo (talk) 07:08, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Vasuki indicus
Life reconstruction of Vasuki indicus
Hi! Wanted to put this Vasuki life reconstruction up for review... since it's only known from a few vertebrae I didn't have much to go off with, but I've tried to keep it in line with Madtsoiidae in general, taking inferences from Madtsoia and Gigantophis Ansh Saxena 7163 (talk) 18:01, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
Those weren't supposed to be scales, just a pattern, though I see now that they look more like scales... I'll make some changes to make it look more obvious Edit: I have made some changes to fix the issue, please check now Ansh Saxena 7163 (talk) 15:59, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
It is a size comparison, originally by Steveoc 86 and Oryctolagus XL reuploaded with the addition of Vasuki, I have used the mean of the lower and upper ranges provided in Datta & Bajpai 2024 (10.9-12.2 m has been averaged to 11.5 m and 14.5 to 15.2 m has been averaged to 14.8 m)
I have no idea about the others, I took the size comparison from the Titanoboa page so figured it might be right... If it is problematic though here's one specifically for Vasuki Vasuki indicus size comparisonAnsh Saxena 7163 (talk) 10:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
I started an update to my version a while ago with the intention of adding Palaeophis but I don't know when I'll finish it. I should probably add Vasuki now. The current iteration can be seen here [7]. The extinct snake silhouettes in the diagram mainly use the size of known vertebrae to roughly estimate torso height, then draw the snake to the estimated length. Doing this resulted in my version of Palaeophis being slightly leaner but otherwise similar. I gave it a more rounded head shape, which some living sea snakes have, but I'm unaware of decent skull material for the group. The paddle is slight less prominent in my version as well. Steveoc 86 (talk) 22:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
That sounds better, then I think it'll be best to wait for the updated version for a size comparison. Adding only the life restoration for now to the Vasuki page then. Ansh Saxena 7163 (talk) 14:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Bright yellow isn't the best color for visibility, a more subdued shade would be ideal. Maybe Steveoc 86 can share his font and text size details so the labels for Vasuki can be standardized even further. But otherwise the diagram looks good! NGPezz (talk) 03:42, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
Here's a link to a potential update that adds Vasuki[8]. The skulls of both Vasuki and Giganotophis are inspired by a diagram of Wonambi by Scanlon & Lee (2000).
Re Palaeophis; There's Archaeophis that is well preserved and doesn't seem to show evidence of a paddle. It also seems that the lateral compression of the body varies within Palaeophis and P. colossaeus 'might' not be as compressed as other species. So, I dialled back the paddle somewhat, but still speculative.
Re the anaconda; Living snake sizes seem fairly contentious. 5.21 m is usually mentioned as reliable and is leaned towards in the wiki article but just recently one was found dead that is larger. There's video of it being measured by rope that estimated it at around 6.45 m. Reportedly, it was later measured properly by a biologist at 6.32 m. However, most the information comes from Instagram and YouTube videos. So it might not make sense to include it here unless we can find a better source? Steveoc 86 (talk) 23:21, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
It's not clear to me why it has a spatulate premaxilla (an apparent exaggeration of the condition in Stagonolepis) when the skull of Paratypothorax shows no such feature: [9]Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 02:26, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Well a spatulated premax is present in paratypothorax, just not to the extent I've shown here. I'll update it. thnx for the critique! DNB XD (talk) 14:58, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
The skeletal is not a rigorous reconstruction of Venkatasuchus. It is almost certainly copied from this reconstruction of Typothorax: [10] And I will note the following passage from the paper I linked: "The tip itself appears to have been unexpanded as in Aetosaurus and Stenomyti, and is rather different from the shovel shaped premaxilla in most other aetosaurs." Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 16:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
I drew this reconstruction of Manipulator but I'm not sure if the head is well reconstructed. Any suggestions? Qohelet12 (talk) 21:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Overall looks ok for me as well, only the leg with following issues:
Absence of trochanter (a small, narrow, triangular segment located between coxa and femur, a general feature of insect legs). In the original decription the segment is even visible via the specimen photo, but ommited in the drawing for whatever reason.
Detail of tarsus. According to Li & Huang 2022 Manipulatoridae should have 5 tarsomeres instead of 4 unless it was regenerated (see fig. 8B, although it's a different genus but still from the same family). Also an arolium (median sucking pad) is evident between the tarsal claw as well (see fig. 5C).
Now new study[13] have shown complete remain of Ptychodus. Although paper is not freely licensed, supplementary information of the paper[14] is CC BY 4.0 which we can use some of fossil images. Either way, I think we probably need new Ptychodus reconstruction based on Mexican specimen. @Damouraptor: or @EvolutionIncarnate: would be interested in that? Supplementary material also includes size estimation of multiple specimens based on newly found specimen. I wonder if @PaleoNeolitic: would be good at making new size chart? Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 07:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Size comparison done. I depicted four species of each tooth morphology following Vullo et al. 2024, as well as the new body shape indicated by the new fossils. PaleoNeolitic (talk) 02:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
If you want it might also be a good idea to upload this picture as an SVG or put the Ptychodus silhouette on Phylopic. I don't think anyone has uploaded one for the new body shape yet and it would be useful to be able to reuse it as a reference.
Koleken
Hello. It's been a while, but can I ask for review for my reconstruction again? This time I tried to reconstruct Koleken mostly based on the skeletal reconstruction from the official paper (?) in this page... https://novataxa.blogspot.com/2024/05/koleken.html For the scale with human, I am basing it on the femur length that is described from the paper which is 50 or so cm if I remember correctly? So that is for the reference. Is my reconstruction good enough to be put in the Koleken page? If the human scale is jarring or say "unartistic" and inaccurate, I can just omit it from the image... Thank you very much as always and sorry for my bad english!
The foot claws look overly curved, and like they're reaching below the line of the feet themselves, which would be impossible. Dinosaur palaeoart should be posted to WP:Dinoart, by the way. FunkMonk (talk) 18:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Ah I guess you are right. I just realized it is too curvy..
Oh I didn't aware that there is a page dedicated to dinosaur paleoart review.. Thank you for both of you guys input! I will not upload it then if there are some major issues.. DD (talk) 01:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Aw how could I forget about that paper.. For the right foot, yes I made it to looks like its just about to lift from the ground DD (talk) 01:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Given that the "official" skeletal diagram was for whatever reason not created with a scale bar(‽) (and wasn't actually published in the paper) and no size estimate seems to be given in the paper, the human scale seems to fall under original research. -SlvrHwk (talk) 17:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)