Wikipedia:Simple talk

Simple talk

WP:ST

This is the place to ask any questions you have about the Simple English Wikipedia. Any general discussions or anything of community interest is also appropriate here.

You might also find an answer on Wikipedia:Useful, a listing of helpful pages.

You may reply to any section below by clicking the "change this page" link, or add a new discussion section to this page. Please sign and date your post (by typing ~~~~). Please add new topics to the bottom of this page.

Please note that old discussions on this page are archived periodically. If you do not find a discussion here, please look in the archives. Note that you should not change the archives, so if something that has been archived needs discussing, please start a new discussion on this page.

Some of the language used on this page can be complicated. This is because it is used by editors to talk to one another, so sometimes we forget. Please leave us a note if you are finding what we are saying too hard to read.

Are you in the right place?

See WP:AN to speak to an administrator.
See WP:RFCU for CheckUser requests.
See WP:OS for oversight.
See WP:RFRB to request the rollback feature (which administrators can grant).
See WP:VIP to report vandalism.

Add this page to your list of watched pages — Purge

change

Herakles/Hercules

These pages are a mess, mainly caused by not being clear about their historical sequence. Macdonald-ross (talk) 16:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: discussion at Talk:Herakles Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 11:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The future of Good/Very Good articles

Hello all, Good Aruicles, and Very Good Aricles were a nice idea at the time. They are flags that say that a given article has a better quality than other articles. There's just one problen though: Except for me, no one has been promoting these articles, and if they sit in the queue for too long, it is clear that the proposers lose interest. If one month from now (mid August), there are no other people promoting, I propose we do away with the idea. Our community is small already, and getting an article to meet GA or VGA criteria is a huge effort. What do other people think? Eptalon (talk) 08:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm more than happy to go through any I haven't commented on and give them a promote/fail if there's a consensus. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The GA/VGA process has been slow for a long time, but I think it's good to keep it around. It's a nice way to motivate people to make pages that stand out in quality (I know that the thought of getting a page to 'Good Article' status has at least made me put my best work into translating & writing, I wouldn't like to speak for anyone else).

Maybe we should change the process to be more similar to how English wiki does it? The biggest obstacle I've noticed is simply getting enough users to vote for an article to have a consensus. Having one user do a much more involved review might help with that - right now, it takes months for something to pass, even if it has a clear consensus given by a small number of editors. 🤘🤘 DovahFRD (talk) 15:51, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also believe a system of fewer, more in-depth reviews would do good in helping get more GA/VGA's through. LV^✉✎ 15:55, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will always be supportive of the GA/VGA process. I think the idea of elevating articles to VGA statuses and having them on the front page is essential for Simple Wiki. I'd be happy to promote articles :) Is there like a guideline/instructions on how to do so or is promoting articles an admin-only thing? I also think that even if you voted to support a promotion, you could still promote the article given the little active users we have on this project. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recently confirmed that it isn't an admin activity and can be done by anyone. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My reading of it: If you (as an established editor) thin that there is enough support for promoting it, and that there are no major issues left to solve, then you can promote the article. I read "enough support" as 3 supporting votes, and ideally no oppose votes by established editors. Promoting entails updating the tag from pga/pvga to ga/vga, and updating the listing. In the case of VGAs, a blurb to appear on the main page needs to be there as well. Eptalon (talk) 15:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect. I already promoted one article. Could I also promote an article that I nominated, in this case Christopher Plummer? TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you judge it the same way as you would judge another article, I honestly don't see why not. Oh,I forgot: after promoting or denoting, you should also write a message in Simple Talk... Eptalon (talk) 06:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha. Would the message on Simple Talk basically be: "I have recently promoted x article to good article status"? TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Likely yes, or something similar Eptalon (talk) 06:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Plaxton Pointer

We are discussing the introduction to this article (Plaxton Pointer), and would appreciate opinions and suggestions. Kdammers (talk) 22:47, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: discussion at Talk:Plaxton Pointer Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 11:50, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People who committed suicide?

Category:People who committed suicide is very bulky and not simple. Perhaps we ought to move this category to either Category:Deaths by suicide or simply Category:Suicides? MrMeAndMrMe_Talk 21:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Seems like a better category Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 01:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suicides Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 03:08, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Suicides as the simplest one. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 02:35, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'Suicide victims'? Would allow to also have a category for those who survived Eptalon (talk) 12:07, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eptalon I do not understand what your mean. Sorry Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 12:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not all people are successful committing suicides. The wording I proposed would allow to keep track of people who survived an attempt Eptalon (talk) 12:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eptalon oh okay Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 11:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the exact figures, but I heard that some people who jump in front of a train actually survive. Don't ask what they look like afterwards, but still. Also, manufacturers of sleeping pills have made it more difficult to commit suicide that way. In that respect, it would perhaps make sense to have a cattegory to hold both those that were successful, and those that weren't. Eptalon (talk) 13:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Eptalon Not all people who died by suicide are "victims" though. Think about Cato the Younger. "Victims" is a bit POVish as well, because not every culture sees suicides as victims. ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 18:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to actually vote, sorry. My vote is

Support Category:Suicides ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 11:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Suicides as per above, also matches EN (en:Category:People who committed suicide redirects to en:Category:Suicides), –Davey2010^Talk 12:10, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support More simple. Cyclonical (talk) 18:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MrMeAndMrMe seems like the community approve this idea Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 11:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How come I can create new pages as an IP but I can't on English wikipedia

Basically, if an IP wanted to create the page TFYUIGYIYIOPHBOUYDIVGHDGIOUDBY on simple.wikipedia.org, they would be able to, but if they wanted to create the page on English wikipedia, they can't. Why is that? 24.115.255.37 (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On en wikipedia, you need to submit the article for review and an reviwer will take a look at it if it is acceptable to be on mainspace. Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 01:51, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But why isn't that the case on Simple? 24.115.255.37 (talk) 02:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simple do not have articles for creation Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 02:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also please do not create the page as it would be nonsense Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 01:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't going to I was just using it as an example 24.115.255.37 (talk) 02:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 02:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The rules on different languages Wikipedias are different. We don't have any requirement to go through Articles for Creation. Enwiki only enacted it a few years back. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In very short terms: This community is much smaller than EnWp, and it believes that deep down most IP editors are good people who create useful content. There's no reason to keep an IP from creating an article. Note: there are quick dleetion criteria, a few of them let us delete articles that are nonsense. Admins regularly delete such articles. IP editors who create a few bad pages may be bloked. First the blocks are short, later the blocks are longer. In short: there is no need to prevent IP edittors from creating (hopefully meaningful) articles.

Creating an account isn't necessary, but it has benefits:

You can vote in elections
If your account has a cetain age, and you have done a number of edits, you will be able ot edit semu-protected pages.

Eptalon (talk) 12:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus to move a guideline page

On Simple English Wikipedia we do not create pages, we start them, so I am asking if we can move Wikipedia:Do not create hoaxes to Wikipedia:Do not start hoaxes. ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 13:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would also suggest moving Wikipedia:Why create an account? to Wikipedia:Why make an account?. MrMeAndMrMe_Talk 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About editing

Hello, I am an editor from Wikipedia and I am interested in also editing in Simple Wikipedia. Is there anything different about editing Simple Wikipedia that I should know besides to make it in simple English? Zabro29 (talk) 16:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome! Some things here are different from how they are on English Wikipedia (for example, anyone can put new pages on the mainspace), but most of it is similar. I would recommend checking out Wikipedia:How to write Simple English pages - it has great info on how to write in Simple English. If you need any help, feel free to ask! 🤘🤘 DovahFRD (talk) 19:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When you say “Anyone can put new pages on the mainspace”, does this mean that I can create a new article without having to go through a process? Zabro29 (talk) 22:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you can publish new articles immediately. 🤘🤘 DovahFRD (talk) 22:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Can’t wait to contribute to here Zabro29 (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zabro29 I add a welcome template to your talk page, User talk:Zabro29. There are some useful links there. Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 11:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome here! You may be interested in reading Wikipedia:An English Wikipedian's guide. Hope you choose to stay and help us :) ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 21:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for giving me the guide, that helped me Zabro29 (talk) 22:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to help

✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zabro29: Welcome. In addition to the things mentioned above, you might be interested in this list I maintain of some things that are different here. The list is not a policy or guideline, but it links to some relevant policies and guidelines. If you have any questions about it, feel free to leave a message on my talk page. -- Auntof6 (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complex wording in infobox

Can someone help to simplify the wording in this infobox: Enumclaw horse sex case? Or should it just be left as it is? I don't think "Acute peritonitis caused by traumatic perforation of the colon" or "Laws passed criminalizing bestiality and zoophilic pornography" are simple. 2607:F140:6000:802A:4E1:5FBE:B05:C96 (talk) 22:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

Instead of the first: Peritonitis because of a hole in the colon
Instead of the second: Laws passed making sexual intercourse with animals and human/animal pornography illegal

What do you think? -- Auntof6 (talk) 11:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Auntof6 That wording seemed better, so I updated it. Thanks. 2607:F140:6000:802A:71C2:27F0:2F59:CC3D (talk) 21:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dialects

Is there help for Jamaicans, schooled in English but speaking with a strong Jamaican dialect? 2001:56A:6FE0:8BF5:144E:4AE4:3C2E:93EE (talk) 22:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dialects are not languages so we'd expect people to use normal simple English. There isn't anything specific to do for a Jamaican editor as written English is the same. There may be a Jamaican patois Wikipedia. fr33k man 19:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article wizard

On some pages of the article wizard, there are tabs with redlinks. They are pages such as:

There are links on the tabs that say "Introduction", "Subject", and in some cases, "Notability" and "Sources". But are these necessary? 2607:F140:6000:806A:755A:8FB:CCBA:6EB4 (talk) 04:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: moved this from User talk:Ferien to simple talk. Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 08:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Issue with carbon Suboxide page

This page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_suboxide states that carbon Suboxide is produced in the human body from Malonic acid and by heme oxygenase-however I could not find any more info on this!

Is this simply false or is there some source that states this? If neither are true, then that would make this a primary source and therefore inappropriate!? Harry (talk) 10:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LevelMeasurement6553 Why are you asking about an EN wiki article on simple wiki? Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 10:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because primary sources are not allowed on Wikipedia Harry (talk) 00:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LevelMeasurement6553 It would be best to bring it up on en rather than simple as the wikis act essentially separate.- FusionSub (Talk page) (Contributions) 08:10, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oh okay Cactus🌵 ^spiky ^ouch 07:22, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just FYI, I brought over part of the page, now at Carbon suboxide. I am not a chemist, so likely the page needs looking at/copyediting. Eptalon (talk) 08:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two new Good Articles

Hello, Blood on the Clocktower and Christopher Plummer have recently been promoted to Good Article. Thank you to all who contributed, good work... Eptalon (talk) 10:50, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Empty monthly clean-up categories

Hi. I emptied Category:Pages needing to be simplified from April 2012 and the quick-deletion template automatically appeared on the page, automatically categorizing it inside Category:Quick deletion requests. However, I cannot find it inside Category:Quick deletion requests. It happens with other empty monthly clean-up categories as well. Is this a problem with the template inside them? Should I manually tag them for quickly deletion? (I am not taking about mantainance categories that should not be deleted even if empty, of course.) ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 14:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dream Indigo: I think it's a cache thing. I think if you just do a null edit, it will show up. -- Auntof6 (talk) 15:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Auntof6: Such an easy fix, thank you very much! It shows up now. Thanks a lot. ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 15:16, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dream Indigo: Yes, I did a null edit. -- Auntof6 (talk) 15:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Articles on likely presidential candidates semi-protected...

Hello, I semi-protected the articles on Joe Biden and Donald Trump, as they will be the likely candidates for the presidential election end of the year. They are now semi-protected, only autoconfirmed users can edit the articles. This was done, because there was an increasing level of vandalism to the pages. The protection is for six months, it will expire after the election is over. Editors who aren't autoconfirmed can still suggest changes on the respective talk page, and autoconfirmed editor will then do the change once there is agreement. Eptalon (talk) 08:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Movement Charter ratification voting results

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello everyone,

After carefully tallying both individual and affiliate votes, the Charter Electoral Commission is pleased to announce the final results of the Wikimedia Movement Charter voting.

As communicated by the Charter Electoral Commission, we reached the quorum for both Affiliate and individual votes by the time the vote closed on July 9, 23:59 UTC. We thank all 2,451 individuals and 129 Affiliate representatives who voted in the ratification process. Your votes and comments are invaluable for the future steps in Movement Strategy.

The final results of the Wikimedia Movement Charter ratification voting held between 25 June and 9 July 2024 are as follows:

Individual vote:

Out of 2,451 individuals who voted as of July 9 23:59 (UTC), 2,446 have been accepted as valid votes. Among these, 1,710 voted “yes”; 623 voted “no”; and 113 selected “–” (neutral). Because the neutral votes don’t count towards the total number of votes cast, 73.30% voted to approve the Charter (1710/2333), while 26.70% voted to reject the Charter (623/2333).

Affiliates vote:

Out of 129 Affiliates designated voters who voted as of July 9 23:59 (UTC), 129 votes are confirmed as valid votes. Among these, 93 voted “yes”; 18 voted “no”; and 18 selected “–” (neutral). Because the neutral votes don’t count towards the total number of votes cast, 83.78% voted to approve the Charter (93/111), while 16.22% voted to reject the Charter (18/111).

Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation:

The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees voted not to ratify the proposed Charter during their special Board meeting on July 8, 2024. The Chair of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees, Nataliia Tymkiv, shared the result of the vote, the resolution, meeting minutes and proposed next steps.

With this, the Wikimedia Movement Charter in its current revision is not ratified.

We thank you for your participation in this important moment in our movement’s governance.

The Charter Electoral Commission,

Abhinav619, Borschts, Iwuala Lucy, Tochiprecious, Der-Wir-Ing

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About a redirect and its page history

Hello! Karangasem Kingdom (started 4 July 2024) mas moved in the wrong way to Kingdom of Karangasem (started 10 July 2024). The user who "moved" it, erased the page history in the process, because they started a new page, they did not move it. What should we do? ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 21:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dream Indigo en:WP:history merge. I'll do it. — *Fehufangą ♮ ✉ Talk page 22:02, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fehufanga: Thank you so much! ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 22:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TV episode summaries not showing

Hi, I copypasted the episode table from en:SpongeBob SquarePants (season 1)#Episodes to SpongeBob SquarePants (season 1)#Episodes however the summaries here don't show, I don't suppose anyone would know why ?

{{episode table}} and {{episode list}} are up to date but I'm assuming there's an out of date template/module somewhere?

None of the summaries will be used due to complex issues but It's just bugging me as to why they're not showing, Many thanks, Warm Regards, –Davey2010^Talk 17:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved, For whatever reason Simple doesn't like "#invoke:Episode list|sublist|",

For future reference anyone coming across this issue in future should replace "{{#invoke:Episode list|sublist|PAGENAME" with "{{Episode list" (example), Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 11:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An article has no image

The article Masakaki has no article but it's wikimedia commons page commons:Category:Masakaki has a lot of images Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 17:21, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done @Immanuelle: I chose the picture I liked the most, it was taken by you :) ✩ Dream Indigo ✩ 20:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On Kiwi farms and suicides.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kiwi_Farms#%22linked_to_three_suicides%22 Hello, I have created a section on the KF talk page regarding whether we should remove the suicides bit at the lede. I have presented my case, and am willing to listen and discuss with others' cases. Thanks, 3a23e (talk) 17:50, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The numbers game...

Hello, Joe Biden has about 11-12k hits this month, Donald Trump is at about half that number; compared to that Kamala Harris is at only 2-3k hits. I am just saying: it is important that we have good pages on these people, as they actually get read... Eptalon (talk) 00:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What improvements do you recommend, Eptie. Also, you're right. The truth is behind a paywall, and propaganda is free. We have a chance to do some real good. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]